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Author Topic: Just don't know how to include her and relate...  (Read 366 times)
Shell Shocked

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
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« on: March 28, 2015, 01:20:02 PM »

It is so hard sometimes to manage interactions with my daughter who has BPD traits.  My husband is out with 2 of my younger children so I asked my 16 year old (uBPD) if she wanted to play a game.  She always says that we don't care about her, don't include her, love the other children better... .etc... .  She feels like an outsider and no matter what we do to include her, it doesn't seem to help.  She isolates herself and convinces herself that we are "mean" to her all the time.  I married my husband when she was 5 (started dating him when she was 4) and although he is not her biological father (he is the bio-dad to my other 5) he adopted her and considers her his daughter.

Anyway, I try so hard sometimes to include her and I usually end up regretting it.   :'(  I asked if she wanted to play the board game with my 10 year old daughter and I.  She said "yes" enthusiastically.  It is a new game and we have been wanting to play for a while but it is too difficult for most of the kids so we hadn't had a chance to play.  I gave my 4 year old the job of giving resource cards to us when we rolled the dice (a perfect job for her to "play" with us but not really mess up the game).  Since we had never played and the rules are fairly complex I had to read them through before we played.  She spent the whole time complaining that I was taking too long, that it was boring, asking me questions about rules I hadn't gotten to yet, and snapping at everyone.  When we finally started playing she took her phone and started playing music loudly.  Every time her 10 year old sister made a mistake (either counting wrong or taking too long) she would snap at her and talk to her in a tone that indicated she was a complete idiot.  I reminded her gently a couple times that her sister is younger and we need to be patient as we are all learning how to play.  I also reminded her a couple times it was supposed to be fun.  I asked her to turn down her music and she wouldn't.  Then I asked her very nicely to please turn it off.  It was starting to give me a headache, I did not care for the lyrics and didn't want my younger girls listening to them, and it was hard to concentrate on the game.  She said "No."  I asked her why she felt the need to have the loud noise while we were playing the game.  She replied "It calms me down"  I asked her what she needed to be calmed down about.  She said "You.  You annoy me."  I had enough at that point.  Here I was trying hard to make her feel included and like part of the family and all she can do is make her sisters feel stupid and inferior and insult me.  I said "I think I am going to have to stop playing.  I am getting  a headache and I need to take care of the baby"  (My 10 month old was getting fussy)  She threw her pieces down and said "Whatever.  This wasn't fun anyway.  It took an hour for you to read the stupid instructions."  Then she stormed up to her room.

Ladies with success stories - what could I have done differently?  Playing games always brings out the worst in her.  However, it was one of the things she complained about after visiting my sister in law with teen children.  She said we never play games and do fun things like they do.  So here I am trying... .  Honestly I wonder sometimes what the point is.  If I go out of my way to include her and make her happy, it doesn't.  She finds a way to believe that we are mean and hateful no matter what we do and then she makes the rest of us miserable right along with her.  We are all happier when she just leaves us alone.   :'(  But then I feel guilty and sad that she is lonely and not part of our family.  I just can't get it right.     

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Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
lbjnltx
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« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 07:14:41 PM »

Hi Shell Shocked,

Sorry that what you hoped for wasn't realized.  I was just reviewing the Second Edition of BPD in Adolescents by Blaize Aguirre MD and refreshing my memory on the dysregulated states both emotional and behavioral.  Having patients can be stressful and stress leads to dysregulation.

It isn't that you set the situation up to fail... .it's that maybe you didn't set it up to succeed.

Maybe having a good understanding of the rules of the game before you played could have helped ease the tension.  Perhaps asking her if she would agree to play without the music on before starting the game... .these may have helped and may not... .chalk it up to experience and learn what you can from her reactions. 

The all or nothing, black/white thinking is common for pwBPD.  One of the things my d and I both learned early on in her diagnoses that there are words that tell each of us when this is happening... .always, never, everytime, hate, world's best(greatest), etc... .these extremes represent the extremes and intensity of their emotionally driven thoughts and reactions. 

As you know, they can turn on a dime.  Realizing this can help us not personalize it when it happens.

lbjnltx
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crazedncrazymom
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Relationship status: Married 19 years
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2015, 05:58:16 AM »

Hi Shell Shocked,

I had the same problem with my daughter.  You are in such a tough situation since your younger children need attention too.  I can imagine how hard it must be to give all of them the age appropriate attention they need.  One of the things I do with my daughter is rewatch old series on Netflix.  We both really enjoy it and I can't tell you how many times we have both diffused a situation by saying... .want to watch a show?  It's easy, stress free and ongoing so you don't have to keep trying to come up with something new.  However, if possible, make sure it is at a time when your little ones aren't interrupting all the time.  I can see that being a trigger.

I know exactly what you mean about trying so hard to include a child only to have it backfire.  Don't take her moods personally.  Just keep her limitations in mind.  LBJ said it perfectly.  These things need to be set up to succeed.
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madmom
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Relationship status: Married over 30 years
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2015, 10:24:00 AM »

I am sorry, that something you were trying so hard to be fun and inclusive, turned out badly.  It is such a tightrope we walk with these children isn't it?  As I was reading your post a couple of thoughts occurred to me.  It sounds like you have your hands full trying to spend quality time with all of the children, especially when one has BPD and I can relate with how much time and effort they take.  I like the idea of spending a little extra time with the BPD child alone, watching a television program or movie after the little ones are in bed, or doing a craft, exercise class, whatever it is that she is interested in doing with you so you can work on your relationship.  The other thing, maybe if she insists on listening to the music, she could use an earphone and listen to in in one ear while playing a game, that way she gets what she wants, while the rest of you don't have to listen to the loud noise.  Don't know if it would work, but just a thought.  Best wishes.  You are not alone, we have all experienced these types of things.
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livednlearned
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Relationship status: Married
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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2015, 03:20:54 PM »

Hi Shell Shocked,

Even when I try to set things up for success, I realize it is a learning experience, and that success looks different for my son than it does for other kids. Last night I took him to see Stomp. My idea, but I put a lot of thought into it based on his interests. He complained the whole way there   but lucky for me I had spent the day at a mindfulness retreat and managed to stay centered while he gave it a college effort to ruin the night 

Each time he complained, I told myself, "He's anxious, he doesn't know what to expect, he is struggling to leave his normal self-soothing methods behind, he is afraid." And I kept driving. I try to hear what he is saying and see if I can figure out the emotions, and try to put myself in his shoes, even though he experiences life so different than me. Sometimes I find it hard to validate the feelings, and have to just be present and listen, a quiet form of validation. And keep doing what we're doing. Sometimes I realize that I had a vision and am attached to what the experience should be like.

It sounds like your D wanted to be included, she wanted to play, and wanted to have fun. She made an effort. But the game was complex, and boring for her. That's ok -- it should be fun, and it wasn't. Sometimes my son makes me realize feelings I don't necessarily want to acknowledge. When I think about it, I don't really like the crowds, the noise, the shuffling slowly behind people, the long lines to use the bathroom, food that is expensive and doesn't taste good. I like wearing comfortable clothes and felt like I had to dress up a bit to see the show. These are all true, and can be acknowledged.

It is also true that the show was wonderful, it was funny, and S13 enjoyed it. Even though he has a hard time saying so. Joy is a very vulnerable feelings (says Brene Brown, author of Daring Greatly). I try to remember that. It is much more comfortable to be pessimistic that things won't work out, safer even. I looked at S13 during the show during a really funny moment and saw him smiling, and have to realize that he cannot easily say he is having a good time even when there is proof  Smiling (click to insert in post) Success is different for him. He left the house! And he wore long pants! And he laughed out loud!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

You might have a vision for how your D participates in family life that she struggles to be able to do right now. She's not there yet. Maybe you can also have a do-over, to let her know in retrospect how you feel about things. ":), thank you for making an effort to play the board game. I thought about it after it was over, and you're right. It is frustrating to try and learn a new game with a lot of rules. I'm going to spend some time learning the rules, and maybe we can play again when you're ready."






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busymind79

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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2015, 09:13:50 AM »

I have this issue with my D15 on a regular basis. She says that we do everything we can to exclude her. Board games are something our whole family does toger on a pretty regular basis. It's a staple in our family time. Lately she declines any request to play, and then complains that we don't do anything as a family. When she will play, she spends a good amount of time berating her 10 yr old brother for everything and anything. She flat out tells him that he is an idiot or a retard. When we tell her that she needs to stop calling him names, she says that we baby him and he needs to know how other people see him. It makes me hurt for both of them, because I know that this is how she feels the world is.
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