New here, hello

[brandelin]

Hi there,

I'm pretty new to all of this, so let me just start by telling you my story, in a quick overview:

My hubby and I have been together for ten years, married six.  We have a very blended family of five kids.

For years I've closed my eyes to a lot of behaviors that I couldn't make sense of.  Recently I woke up one morning unable to do it anymore.  I love my husband so much. I don't want to split up my family.  But I can't be treated this way anymore and I can't be blamed for everything anymore.

So I asked him to start marriage counseling.  It hasn't gone particularly well.  I have been at my wits end; and then a friend recommended the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells."

Light bulb moment.  I've never seen anything that "fit" us so well.  I've always thought that he doesn't treat me poorly because that's who he is, or the way he wants me to feel. He isn't trying to do anything wrong, and he has no actual ill intent.  But he does it, and he can't understand that he does it. 

This description of BPD fits like a glove.

It may never be dx'd, because I know better than to talk to him about it, at least at this point.  But I'm happy to have found this board, where maybe I can find some support and some people who have been where I am.

I'm Brandy; I'm in Virginia.   

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[misuniadziubek]

Welcome to bpdfamily Brandy )

It's good that you finally figured out what could be the actual issues in your relationship. It's definitely a very empowering moment because it gives you back some level of control and opens your eyes to what is and isn't your responsibility in your relationship.

Plus the feedback on here is phenomenal. Many of us have been where you are and would be more than happy to help.

What are you looking to get out of the message board?

What has your biggest -aha- moment been?

What areas of your life are you looking to improve?

[getting_better]

Hi, Brandy - welcome! 

I've been married to my BPD wife of 23 years, and I had the same experience you did with the book "Walking on Eggshells".  It was just incredible to put a name on what had been mystifying me and my kids and our extended family for years.  The book that has helped me the most is "Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder": www.amazon.com/Someone-Borderline-Personality-Disorder-Control/dp/1593856075  by Shari Manning

I marked that book up one side and down the other.  It is an amazing read with real applicable skills that work! 

I've been separated from my wife now for 9 months and will be pursuing divorce, but I wish I had the strength to apply the skills Dr. Manning reveals in her treatise.  I'm just too exhausted, but maybe it's not too late for you!

Good luck, my friend. You're in good company on this site.

[brandelin]

Well, my biggest A-Ha moment was reading about how people with BPD don't often grasp what they're doing. My husband isn't malicious; he's actually a very, very good man and I love him very much.  Over the years he's called me names I wouldn't call my worst enemy and has been verbally abusive repeatedly.  But the same thing always remains: he isn't really aware of it. It isn't like what you describe as an abusive relationship: he doesn't come back saying "I'm sorry, it'll never happen again." He honestly isn't really aware it happened, and if I tell him it did, he doesn't remember it the same way I do.  There just isn't anything in him that can believe he's done such things.

I hope to find support.  I just need a place to go where people understand and don't judge.  

I don't know if my husband and I are going to stay together.  Things are very, very difficult right now and we may not make it.  But I hope this will be a place I can turn where I can say what I need to say and not be met with "You HAVE to leave him."  That's what I get everywhere else.  But I suspect people here understand something others just don't.

I would love to find a way to improve my marriage.  My kids love us so much, and I've promised him since I met him that no matter what, I'd never leave. He's always just sort of needed me to say that, and I meant it.  But right now we're talking about separating, and it is awful. It's not what my heart wants.  But my brain?  Well... .it's just not sure anymore.

[vortex of confusion]

 

Hi Brandy! Welcome to BPD.

Finding out about BPD is a bit of a mixed blessing. On one hand, it answers a lot of questions that have been looming without any answers. I can really relate to what you said about your husband treating you poorly but him not realizing it. That was very confusing for me. My husband is a nice guy and never intends to do any harm yet he sure does. The other side of that is that reading and participating in these forums has helped me to pull my head out of the sand. Facing the reality of all of this can be overwhelming, especially for somebody like me that lived in denial for a long time.

I would recommend checking out the Lessons that you can find to the right of this forum. There are lessons on understanding your partner's behavior, understanding your role in the the relationship, as well as a bunch of really great communication tools to help you communicate with your partner.

As you read through the lessons, you can post any questions that you have.

It can be a bit overwhelming. When I found these boards, I had no idea where to start. I just knew that things stunk and I wanted change.

Welcome! Feel free to share as much as you want and ask as many questions as you want. There are a lot of people here that can offer you advice and direction.

[vortex of confusion]

I don't know if my husband and I are going to stay together.  Things are very, very difficult right now and we may not make it.  But I hope this will be a place I can turn where I can say what I need to say and not be met with "You HAVE to leave him."  That's what I get everywhere else.  But I suspect people here understand something others just don't.

Looks like several of you were posting while I was posting! 

I wanted to comment on this and reassure you that the Staying Board is a safe place for you to come if you want to figure out how to make things better without being told to leave him. No matter how crazy things are the people on this board will help you and encourage you.

If you are in danger, somebody will point you to resources to help you protect yourself.

You might get challenged a time or two. That can be uncomfortable but it is helpful. Most of the challenges are about how my behavior might be contributing negatively to the situation with my partner.

[brandelin]

Thank you Vortex!  I was reading one of the Lessons at that moment actually, and I had a question:

It talks about validating his feelings.  My hubs doesn't acknowledge feelings.  When I talk about feelings he gets irritated, he says that's what women say to manipulate men.  He makes statements like "I prefer we make decisions based on logic, not feelings." 

I'm not sure how to handle that.  I've been suppressing my feelings for years because I know this is how he feels, but I can't anymore. Once I started accepting the fact that our marriage was in trouble, I had to start looking at why, and the why of the matter is that I feel like he dislikes me most of the time, and my feelings are always disregarded and often hurt.  So I have to find a middle ground on the feelings thing.  Thoughts?

[vortex of confusion]

It talks about validating his feelings.  My hubs doesn't acknowledge feelings.  When I talk about feelings he gets irritated, he says that's what women say to manipulate men.  He makes statements like "I prefer we make decisions based on logic, not feelings." 

In the example of that statement, you can validate it with something like, "I know you like to use logic because it makes more sense." It is acknowledging that you hear what they are saying without necessarily agreeing with it. Can you give an example of how an interaction between the two of you might go if you were to try to make a decision together? Every person's situation is very unique (overall context is similar) and it can be difficult to give ideas for validation without a better idea of how things go between the two of you.

I'm not sure how to handle that.  I've been suppressing my feelings for years because I know this is how he feels, but I can't anymore. Once I started accepting the fact that our marriage was in trouble, I had to start looking at why, and the why of the matter is that I feel like he dislikes me most of the time, and my feelings are always disregarded and often hurt.  So I have to find a middle ground on the feelings thing.  Thoughts?

Do you have any place where you can safely share your feelings?

What kind of support network do you have?

For the longest time, I was stuck thinking that I had to share my feelings with my husband. Because he wouldn't listen to them or acknowledge them, I suppressed them. I am slowly learning to let myself feel things without necessarily sharing it with him. I am thinking that there isn't really a middle ground when it comes to allowing yourself to have feelings. You get to have your feelings. Period. They are yours. Whether or not you communicate those feelings to him is a completely different issues.

[brandelin]

I guess instead what I'm asking is, is there ever going to be a way to make him understand my feelings, or that my feelings matter?

This is the place I'm hoping to feel safe sharing my feelings otherwise.  I do to friends, sometimes. But I always regret it because they always have such strong feelings about it.

That's a wonderful description of how to make his feelings feel validated. I appreciate that!

[takingandsending]

I am thinking that there isn't really a middle ground when it comes to allowing yourself to have feelings. You get to have your feelings. Period. They are yours. Whether or not you communicate those feelings to him is a completely different issues.

To add to VOC's statement, your husband may state that he doesn't base decisions on feelings, but the truth is for pwBPD that feelings = facts. Which is why he can probably appear to you to reach completely illogical conclusions, judgments and criticisms, believing he is doing so very logically based on the facts ... .which are his feelings. This is why many of us living with an SO with BPD get so spun around. But once you begin to understand a little of how their minds work, it's a little easier to navigate.

Validation is a hard to do with someone who has BPD. They are rarely communicating what they are really feeling, because what they are feeling terrifies them. If you sense your husband is irritated or angry, but he is stating "I prefer we make decisions based on logic, not feelings", the validation would go toward the feeling, not toward what he is saying. "I see that you are upset. It's hard when you try to communicate, and it's not understood. I would feel upset too if I felt that you were misunderstanding me." That might or might not get closer to the mark. Problem is, it's a guessing game for us to begin to know what they are feeling. And validation is better done when you are both in a non-escalated emotional state, i.e. a period of more calm. Then tools like Sympathy Empathy Truth (S.E.T.) and validation are more effective. When you try to do it during periods of upset or fighting, they tend to see it as a manipulation. Still, it's worth the effort to at least try to validate.

Watch the video on this site on validation by Alan Fruzetti. It was a great eye opener for me. Basic rules of engagement - validate the valid, don't invalidate the valid, don't validate the invalid, invalidate the invalid [when it is a matter of safety]. The valid is that, right or wrong, your husband has feelings and it is valid for him to have feelings (whether he chooses to admit them or not). So, the goal is to learn not to justify, argue, defend or explain (JADE) during an argument or discussion, because all of those things tend to invalidate our partner's feelings. And simply do your best to validate that he is having feelings. It's likewise important not to validate the invalid, which are the projections, the emotionally abusive comments, the blame and criticism. Agreeing with that only fortifies the pwBPD and emotionally damages you. Lastly, we need to invalidate the invalid when it is a matter of personal safety, particularly if your partner has any suicidal ideation or self harms.

Please keep reading through the lessons and asking questions. You are in good company here, and the difficulties you are experiencing really can lessen. But, most importantly, you need to take care of yourself. Bottling up your feelings doesn't work, as you noted. What sorts of things can you do to get your feelings out? Are there any support groups like NAMI, or friends and family that you can talk about what you are going through? You are here, and we will support you, for sure, but it helps to have people in the same room as you as well.

Welcome to bpdfamily, and I hope you will continue learning and posting and growing.

[takingandsending]

Hi brandelin. I just saw your post after the fact.

I guess instead what I'm asking is, is there ever going to be a way to make him understand my feelings, or that my feelings matter?

Every relationship is different, but empathy is not something that people with BPD are terribly good at. I have heard some posters, though, who have really expressed their BPD SO being very thoughtful, but it tends to be the exception. If you start taking care of your feelings and yourself, things will go better. If you wait for you partner to, resentment and hurt can build up. Basically, these relationships make us grow because if we don't, we will experience a lot of pain. I wish I had a more positive view point, but I also hear that you love your husband and still see a lot of positive within him. That is a much better place to start than many here. If you work on things, at least you will have the clarity to know what is right for you and not feel blindsided by hurt, anger and sadness.

In some ways, we learn to let go of the things that we hoped for in our partners, and the grieving of that hurts like heck. But if we allow that, we may what we can and cannot accept. That has to be a good thing for us, whether we choose to stay or leave.

Hope this helps a little. Hang in there.

[misuniadziubek]

I guess instead what I'm asking is, is there ever going to be a way to make him understand my feelings, or that my feelings matter?

If you start taking care of your feelings and yourself, things will go better. If you wait for you partner to, resentment and hurt can build up. Basically, these relationships make us grow because if we don't, we will experience a lot of pain.

This is exactly it. The only way to survive a relationship [and stay sane] with a BPD is to push yourself towards growth. It's through learning effective coping and communication skills along with proper boundaries, that we stop feeling miserable and at a loss of control.

I originally came on here with an attitude of wanting to improve my partner somehow. Things were bad. I wanted them to become better. I couldn't accept what was. I wanted things to be different.It was a very distorted view.

Over time, I've begun to see my own dysfunctional patterns of both communication and internal thought. I thought that my partner was making me miserable by being irrational and unrealistic in his perceptions of reality. I now realise, no one can -make- you feel anything. You choose to react and feel a certain way to someone else's response. Respond, don't react, is a good rule of thumb.

Getting through this requires a lot of reflection on our own flaws and misconceptions. Our brains are magnificent at justifying everything and anything and filling our heads with answers to fill in the blanks where none actually exist.

You have to take responsibility and own your own feelings, reactions, words, actions. It's about relentlessly asking the question, "Could I handle this better, now or next time?" and 'What is my role in this interaction/result/misunderstanding?"

We are each responsible for 50% of the conflict in any  issue, but we are responsible for 100% of our own half.

Also, most importantly, make sure that you find things about yourself that you feel are good and effective, whether it's what role you play in your kids lives or things that you enjoy doing, and so on. Find the positives to balance out the negative. Best of luck.

[OffRoad]

While I completely agree that we are 100% responsible for how we deal with every situation in life, it is also important to remember that we aren't required to shortchange ourselves, either. If a person loves their BPD partner and the good outweighs the bad, or your own moral code dictates that you cannot leave your partnership, then one must do what one must do to be happy in the relationship.

However, if a relationship is so that your own desires and needs are constantly ignored and trampled, sure you can decide not to be upset about it, but is that how you want to live? I sometimes think that by saying "Oh, I did this wrong, I see my part in it." we often assign ourselves too much part in it, and don't require enough of our pwBPD (Of course, that it dependent upon what type of pwBPD you are with). And that is where our boundaries come in.

[brandelin]

As of this moment my husband has never even heard the term borderline personality disorder.  I certainly can't broach the subject, his defenses would be far too high.  I have this feeling that there will never be a time that he acknowledges that BPD is what is happening.

How do I handle that?  How do I stay? 

I'm making preparations to leave my husband, because things have been too difficult to live with, and he's cut me off financially and asked me to leave the job I love in order to make more money.  It's a big thing going on in our house. 

But leaving has never been what I want.  I love him very much, and I've always known this was not a "face value" situation. He loves me as much as he can love someone and he doesn't want us to split up either.  But he can't see that his actions are intolerable.  He often doesn't remember things the way they happen, I'm guessing because he can't really remember so he bases his memory on logic: what would I have done in that situation, rather than what did I actually do. 

How do I make this work? 

[babyducks]

  I have this feeling that there will never be a time that he acknowledges that BPD is what is happening.

How do I handle that?  How do I stay? 

I am very careful to never mention BPD to my partner.  She doesn't like the term, in any reference.  I would never under any circumstance suggest BPD to her.   It would be counter productive in the extreme.

I believe she has many of the traits of BPD, and the therapist that I saw for more than a year (who she picked LOL)  agreed with that.   

That's enough of a diagnosis for me.

I know what you mean about how do you handle that.   For me, in some ways it feels dishonest, to not say what I am thinking, to base a huge understanding about our relationship on something I don't discuss with her.   

Part of what enables me to do it, since I have this new found information I have been able to make changes and our relationship has improved. 

And the second thing that has enabled me to do it and stay, is to tell the truth but to tell the truth kept very modest.   

I never say I am here, posting on this or any website about the details of our relationship because I know I would get an enormous reaction to that.   I will say very casual things like "I did some reading about high conflict couples and I found it helpful."   And then let it go.

I have found that when things are very difficult I need to be careful about not engaging in the drama WHILE maintaining my boundaries and borders.   

I liked what OffRoad said.

While I completely agree that we are 100% responsible for how we deal with every situation in life, it is also important to remember that we aren't required to shortchange ourselves, either. If a person loves their BPD partner and the good outweighs the bad, or your own moral code dictates that you cannot leave your partnership, then one must do what one must do to be happy in the relationship.

However, if a relationship is so that your own desires and needs are constantly ignored and trampled, sure you can decide not to be upset about it, but is that how you want to live? I sometimes think that by saying "Oh, I did this wrong, I see my part in it." we often assign ourselves too much part in it, and don't require enough of our pwBPD (Of course, that it dependent upon what type of pwBPD you are with). And that is where our boundaries come in.

It often feels like a balancing act and to me it feels hard to balance with a pwBPD because they tend to be impulsive and run to extremes.

I'm concerned about what you said about being cut off financially.  Can you, maybe tell us a little more about that?

[formflier]

As of this moment my husband has never even heard the term borderline personality disorder.  I certainly can't broach the subject, his defenses would be far too high.  I have this feeling that there will never be a time that he acknowledges that BPD is what is happening.

How do I handle that?  How do I stay? 

Please don't make any plans to use terms or labels on him for a while.  For us... the ones in a r/s... .they really don't matter anyway.  What matters are the traits... the things they do.  It rarely goes well to say... "hey... I think you are BPD"

I'm making preparations to leave my husband, because things have been too difficult to live with, and he's cut me off financially and asked me to leave the job I love in order to make more money.  It's a big thing going on in our house. 

Making preparations is wise.  Always good to have a contingency plan.  That will empower you to be able to hold to boundaries when you define them and set them.  Please don't be in a rush to set them  Very important that once you set a boundary... .you hold it.  Especially in the beginning.  I am grateful that people gave me that advice early on.  My first boundary held... .and I felt empowered.

Please tell us more about you being cut off financially.  Where does the money from your job go?  Does he have access to it?

But leaving has never been what I want. 

It's good to know what you want... .we will help you put together a plan that supports this desire.

  But he can't see that his actions are intolerable. 

Intolerable to who?  (this is critical point... .)

He often doesn't remember things the way they happen, I'm guessing because he can't really remember so he bases his memory on logic: what would I have done in that situation, rather than what did I actually do. 

Can you give us an example?

How do I make this work? 

It's' going to take a lot of work on your part.  It... .most likely... .won't seem "fair" to you... .because we are going to be challenging you to do some things. 

Here is the good part of that.  You are 100% in control of what you do and think!  So... .if you get onboard with the strategy that we work out... .it's under your control. 

Hang in there... .     I'm looking forward to seeing more posts from you.  I have been at a place where I didn't think my r/s would work... .that is tough.  My marriage is in a much better place than it has been in years... .because I have changed... because I have "cleaned up my side of the street"... .because I understand the "order to the disorder" and have used that to figure out good times and ways to communicate and times to not even try.

You can do this!   

[takingandsending]

Hi brandelin.

Wow. The situation you mention does sound intolerable. It sounds as if you are not being validated for your feelings or valued for your contribution to the family/household. Is that correct? I want to make one thing clear: no one here is suggesting that you simply accept an abusive situation for you or your children.

Formflier is the Staying Board cheerleader (sorry FF  ), and he has walked the walk. But he is asking you to be responsible for your feelings at a new level, i.e. when you say "but he can't see his actions are intolerable", that is the truth - he can't because they are not intolerable to him. Although you started asking a question about how to validate your BPD husband, what you are wanting is for him to validate what you are going through. That is 100% normal. But it is also not likely to get you very far in getting your needs met.

This illness is not fair, it isn't balanced, it isn't easy. But it is possible to make things better. But it means that you will have to learn how to get your feelings validated from other sources, and that you will have to have boundaries with your husband so that he understands that you will not accept being devalued. To get to that point, there are things that the nonBPD in an RS has to stop doing, which is validating/accepting as true invalid expressions from our BPD partners, and trying to justify, argue, defend or explain our behaviors to our BPD partners when they are upset with us. The two big things we have to start doing are to put a container around the dysregulation, i.e. have consistent boundaries that we enact and (appropriately) validate our partners wherever and whenever possible. Those steps will improve things. It may not be enough for you to stay - only you can determine what you need and whether or not you can accept what he can give in the marriage. But if you can do these things, you will see some decrease in the "boiling to a head moments" in your relationship.

Really wishing you strength and self-kindness. I can hear how tough this is. 

[formflier]

 

I also wanted to follow up and let you know that the situation your described is intolerable... .you are on point with that.

Once that decision is made... .that there is something that shouldn't be tolerated and that you want to change it... .

how you go about changing it matters.  This is true in all facets of life.  Especially true when you have BPD traits affecting your r/s.

Helping you figure out the "how" and making sure you understand why it matters are the only reasons that I suggested you not be in a rush.

Please look over the lesson below... .very important!

Why it matters to hold a boundary!

[Aurylian]

As of this moment my husband has never even heard the term borderline personality disorder.  I certainly can't broach the subject, his defenses would be far too high.  I have this feeling that there will never be a time that he acknowledges that BPD is what is happening.

How do I handle that?  How do I stay? 

Your story resonates with me too.  My wife was diagnosed, but never told and still does not know about the diagnosis. 

It is likely that if you continue this relationship he will never know what is going on inside him and will often think it is you, not him.  Also, history will change frequently based on how he feels about it.  My BPDw revises history often.  I try and keep us from dwelling on it as it serves no purpose since we both remember everything differently.  I try and validate her feelings about what she believes happened, but not validate the facts.

It sounds like your husband is high functioning outside of your relationship?

You can certainly maintain this relationship if that is what you want, but will have to read up on Radical Acceptance and learn to use the Tools well.  I have decided to stay with my BPDw even though the r/s is much more shallow than I ever wanted.  My feelings overwhelm her, so I really cannot safely share anything.  My daughters have learned the same thing, although they do not know why or know about the BPD.

The most important issues for me:

Radical Acceptance: I had to change my expectations for the relationship

Validating my daughters: I have to be the safe place for them to share feelings and express themselves.  Lack of validation for them could lead them down the same path as their mother.

Validation: I learned about many ways that I had been invalidating my wife prior to learning the lessons.  I learned to stop making it worse.

[brandelin]

Wow, thank you guys so much for all of this!

Ok, now to answer:

I went back to work this year after not working for almost six years raising our kids.  Our youngest went to kindergarten this year and I took on a part time job in a school I love.  I bring home less than $800 per month.  My husband brings home $6700.00 per month.  I know this because up until recently I'm the only one who's been picking up his check and depositing it for many years.  He took my debit card away and says he will pay all of the bills and rent and buy groceries (sometimes) and I don't need access to "his" money. 

Intolerable behaviors:  I went away for a weekend with my best friend for my birthday. I know how insecure he gets when I'm away so I let him know he could call/text/skype any time, and that I thought we should skype so he could see who I was with and where I was. He said no, he didn't need us to do that, he wanted me to just relax and have a great time.  We went to the outer banks, where service is sketchy at best. I talked with him and texted him Friday.  I talked with him Saturday around 2 while out shopping.  Later that evening I got a voicemail from him saying he was hoping we could talk/skype. The service was bad enough I didn't get the phone call, only the vm.  So I tried to skype him 12 times, including a text saying "Turn on your skype" which is still on my phone but never went through. You can see that it's a failed text.  The next morning he was furious. The following morning he told me we were separated and took my debit card, even though I showed him the failed skype calls, played him his own voicemail, and showed him the failed text.  He says he "won't have a wife who's so disrespectful she can't be bothered to contact him while she's away." 

He can not, under any circumstances, see this as irrational.  We went to counseling and our counselor tried to talk with him about it. She's wonderful about not taking sides, so he usually responds to her, but he couldn't even listen to what she was saying, he got up and left counseling.

My question: I am reading about setting boundaries and holding to them. Can you guys give examples for me? I'm not sure what to do to set or to hold a boundary.

And no worries, under no circumstances will I ever bring up BPD to him.  But I'm using some of the verbage from my book tomorrow in counseling to help him see why I asked him to come to counseling.  As of now he says it was out of the blue and he's done everything right and is being persecuted by being forced into marriage counseling.

[takingandsending]

Hi brandelin.

First, that is absolutely cool that you are working again and doing work that you love. After six years with the kids, it must be fun getting to interact with people in a different way. Is this the same work that you did before having kids? Anyway, congratulations. I know that my wife is trying to do more getting a business started now that our youngest is about to enter kindergarten (though he's only going 3 half days to start) - the transition is not easy.

I was going to talk about a couple of things you mentioned in your post, hoping it will help with clarity.

He can not, under any circumstances, see this as irrational. 

I learned on this forum that one of the aspects of this illness is that for people with BPD, feelings = facts. I think that's what may be going on here with your H. I know for myself, across so many conversations with my wife, I have to stop expecting that she will be able to make that distinction. Now that I am on to it, I have observed it over and over again. It still is incomprehensible to me, but it is pretty much how her brain works.

So, like a good lawyer, you brought evidence and had a nicely prepared case. You found an expert witness in the MC who corroborated your evidence, but, in the end, it doesn't reach your H and you don't derive much improvement in your life. Sometimes, you feel even worse. You are not being unreasonable or wrong in trying. Sometimes, our truth, our experience is important to get across to our partners. But, I don't think it works too well with BPD to be direct. More likely case is that your husband was feeling something entirely different than disrespect. Some event triggered him, he had thoughts about the event that were too uncomfortable for him to be with, which caused more thoughts, that chain reacted to the point that you stepped in and got slammed with "Let's separate. You don't respect me." By the way, that is all projection. He does not respect himself, which is more likely where his thoughts were going, but they are too difficult to sit with, so ... .

I am not saying that you need to put up with his behavior, or that it's nice or kind. It just helps to understand a little where it comes from. Because then the choice is yours about how you want to deal with it - you can respond v. react. There is a tool in the Lessons call S.E.T. It is probably the best approach when you have something important to express to your husband. It is not always easy to master, but it is effective in bringing down the reactivity in our relationships with BPD. I will note that the better times to do SET are when our partners (or we, too) are not already in an upset.

My question: I am reading about setting boundaries and holding to them. Can you guys give examples for me? I'm not sure what to do to set or to hold a boundary.

Boundaries in these types of relationships best come from things that we hold very important to who we are at heart - stuff that is really vital to us. In my case, I found that the sarcastic speech, name calling, and minimization that my wife frequently engaged in was triggering me badly. The minute her words would go that direction, I ceased listening to anything she had to say and just tied myself in knots internally. I knew that if I replied, it would only get worse, but I also knew that I was dying inside listening to a steady stream of criticism, insults and character assassination. When I began reading about boundaries here, I couldn't understand how this was about me. It was about her. But I am starting to grapple with my own problems with self-worth and self-love and realized that no one should really be talked to like I was allowing. I realized that I don't talk to people like I was allowing myself to be. And from that, I found that one thing that is central to who I am, what I value, is respectful communication - seeing people as human beings, all in the same boat, trying to figure things out. So that became my first boundary. No disrespectful speech.

It is extremely uncomfortable, when you have been living with a pwBPD to suddenly tell them, "I am not going to continue this discussion if we are calling each other names." or "I know what you have to say is important, but I am leaving for 20 minutes so that I can cool off. I will come back and talk to you then." A lot more name calling and accusations and threats got flung my way. But, by being consistent, and just knowing that this is part of who I am and if I don't protect this, I am lost, my wife now knows this is what I will do. She doesn't like it, but she doesn't get as upset about it as she used to. And having this boundary has allowed me to the distance I need to see positives within her once again. It isn't perfect, but it's movement in a better direction than we were going.

Does this help? Do you see any areas within yourself that get compromised that are just basic things that you would never allow your kids to do to other kids for instance, or that you would never do to someone else? That's usually an indicator for where you need a boundary.

[brandelin]

I do see that.  I just can't imagine him actually abiding by boundaries I set.  I mean, he would, he'd just put forth an entire new set of sarcasm and biting comments to let me know what he thinks about my boundaries.  But I could see it eventually getting us somewhere, if I can stand it for that length of time.

I'm worried about my kids.  Not their safety per se, but I worry that my kids see this type of communication as normal.

I have long since stopped engaging when he calls me names or starts a fight in front of them. I shut my mouth and leave the situation, even if it's just to the next room or upstairs.  But my kids still see it.  How do I make sure my 6 year old daughter doesn't think men are allowed to talk to her this way, or that my boys don't see this as appropriate ways to communicate with a girl they date?

I do love my husband.  But I feel like I woke up a month or so ago no longer able to placate him at my own expense.  I've spent years smiling and nodding, not engaging, pretending to be happy, and I am at a point where I need peace.

I'm meeting with an attorney today to discuss my rights, and I'm looking for an apartment. 

I used to think that if we separated it would be the absolute end of us, but now I can't help but feel that if we separated and continued to work on our relationship, it could end up being ok.

But is that something he's going to be capable of seeing? 

I know he's a good man, and he has worth. I know he deserves to be loved.  But I'm not sure I can put myself through any more.  It's such a roller coaster.  And I"m so exhausted.

[formflier]

 

Where are you staying now?

What funds do you have access to?

Boundaries:  It's 100% up to you to enforce them... .they belong to you.  If you make your boundary decisions on what he might do... .his sarcasm... .that is decision making using FOG.  Not good.

What does FOG mean to you?

Hang in there... .more later!

 

[Fraggle12]

Hi Brandy 

I'm fairly new and still finding my way around the site.

What I can say already is that this is the place to learn lots very quickly. Also to realise that you are not alone and many MANY people are going through very similar things to you.

Everyone here is very supportive and there's always lots of helpful advice from people who've been through the hell that is living with someone with BPD.

I'm really glad I came across this site, I'm sure you will be too.

[takingandsending]

I'm worried about my kids.  Not their safety per se, but I worry that my kids see this type of communication as normal.

I have long since stopped engaging when he calls me names or starts a fight in front of them. I shut my mouth and leave the situation, even if it's just to the next room or upstairs.  But my kids still see it.  How do I make sure my 6 year old daughter doesn't think men are allowed to talk to her this way, or that my boys don't see this as appropriate ways to communicate with a girl they date?

I completely understand this one. I worry about the effects the poor communication between UBPDw and me has on my S9 and S3. That is actually my biggest worry. It's really tough because you have to consider will it be better or worse once you are sharing custody. But I want to share some good news that my MC told me once: studies are showing that even if only one parent (in a dysfunctional relationship) provides a safe place for children to communicate their fears, their concerns, their emotions, the children still get the tools they need to relate to their emotions and communicate. That is going a long ways to alleviating some of my concerns.

But I feel like I woke up a month or so ago no longer able to placate him at my own expense.  I've spent years smiling and nodding, not engaging, pretending to be happy, and I am at a point where I need peace.

Boundaries are not about placating your spouse at your own expense. It's about creating the space to prevent things from escalating to name calling, etc. that is so destructive and abusive, i.e. taking care of your needs. Not placating. You will need to have good boundaries, even if you do separate, because you are going to be co-parenting. It sounds like it would be a good idea for you to check out the leaving or undecided boards, too. You don't want to be blindsided if you do choose to separate.

I am wishing you strength and blessings whichever path you decide. I am sorry that things are so hard for you right now.