He was the first one who pointed out my boundary issues but change is hard.

[misuniadziubek]

I've been reading the book 'Boundaries' by Henry Cloud and John Townsend. It's a very preachy/christian book which turned me off initially but the points are extremely universal.

It's made me realise: I am the problem. I'm finding out so much about my own relationships and the source of issues I've endured in the past in any relationship. It's almost disheartening knowing how much self-reflection and change I have ahead of me.

Firstly, my mother grew up in a dysfunctional family life full of hurtful triangulation and controlling, manipulative interactions. I learned early in life to be very compliant to her needs and felt guilty if I wasn't. I never realised there was actually another way to deal with people.

When my uBPDbf and I first started dating, these boundary issues were extremely detrimental to the relationship.  He would often criticise my home life and I just assumed that he was being too harsh.

To give a pretty extreme but extremely common example, my boyfriend would come and pick me up for a weekend at his place and my mom would call me up and tell me that she needed me to come back the next day because she and my father were going out and needed a babysitter for my brother. So my boyfriend would drive back with me the next day and get to spend zero time with me. To him, the weekend was our time, and I was compromising it at the drop of a hat, 'because my mother asked me to.' He would get ridiculously upset and I'd spend all my time calming him down.

I had an issue with lateness at the time as well, oftentimes because my mom would come up with 'needing me to go do grocery shopping' an hour before I was supposed to leave to see my bf. There was zero compromise. She needed something. I was supposed to do it. And then I would get angry, because she wasn't respecting my time, yet still comply. And then my bf would get angrier that I wasn't going to be on time and informing him last minute. And then my anxiety would explode and I'd spend all my time worrying about his angry outbursts and waiting it out for him to calm down and stop berating me.

Eventually, I did start working on changing without really understanding why other than to lessen his angry outbursts. Then last Halloween, I ended up being an hour and a half late for some reason and he simply left to a party without me. This was probably the harshest way that he ever enacted his own boundaries. I ended up joining him there, but he ignored me the whole time and told me he was having fun until I showed up. Simply put, he'd repressed it, but seeing me never care about his time really did hurt him and make him feel disrespected and me showing up was a reminder of that hurt.

That was a wake up call for me. He does overreact and he can paint me black, but he needed consistency and respect of his time from me and I was regularly crossing the line. So I realised my mistake, finally, and really changed.

It's been a hard road but seeing him set his own limits and boundaries influenced me to do the same with my parents. My mother was no longer allowed to ask me for a big favour unless there was 3-4 days to a weeks notice beforehand. I refused to do any shopping unless i genuinely had enough free time. I run into issues still sometimes and let her cross the line, but I then spend more time angry at myself for not enacting my own established limits.

I genuinely love the change in dynamic within my family. I'm finally starting to become my own person, rather than an extension of my mother, an adult who makes their own decisions and will eventually move out :P My boundary issues with regards to my father have been more of an issue of personal space, privacy, my mail and not using my car at his own whim. I own my car and have worked hard to pay it off, so I prefer he not touch it. That was a struggle as well, but I originally made a deal, where he doesn't open my mail, and I keep my stuff limited to my room. It was a very adolescent type of deal, as my bf pointed out, but it got me what I needed from the dynamic.

The remaining issue is my bf. He is very good at enacting and maintaining his boundaries. He'll either yell at me if I cross them or enact consequences he knows I won't like. It's very effective and I take it seriously.

The issue is, I'm not very good at doing the same.

I don't leave when he asks. I sit through his outbursts. I let him treat me like sh** sometimes and wait out him calming down. It's not healthy but I'm afraid to change it. I'm afraid of losing this relationship.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

misuniadziubek,

Thanks for the post.  It's a good thing to gain insight into our lives and identify things that we want to change.

I have also recently read the boundaries book.  I also read the boundaries for Married Couples book.  Very interesting reading.

What did you find most impactful about the book?

What points are you having a hard time coming to grips with?


I'm very interested in your boyfriends boundaries... .the ones that you say he takes very seriously.   Can you tell us about some of them? 

Thanks

FF

[waverider]

Learning about boundaries is an eye opener, and a very useful life skill to learn

You are not the problem

You merely play a part in the dynamics of a dysfunctional relationship. As we all do, normally our 'shortfalls' are of no consequence as those around us are also less than perfect and human nature enables to interact with all kinds of people, few who are "perfect'. The issue is that when you get involved with personality disorders you are interacting with someone who is on the alert for misdeeds either real or perceived. So there is no tolerance.

As a result what is "normal shortfall" is exposed and we can feel guilt and often try to overcompensate or take on too much self blame.

Once you can get past the self guilt you can see it as a chance to work on yourself for you. Don't feel guilt, feel liberation for having a chance to develop better skills which will help you in life as a whole not just your RS.

This school of hard knocks has made me a far better person, with far better vision and appreciation of life than I otherwise would ever have achieved.

[misuniadziubek]

Learning about boundaries is an eye opener, and a very useful life skill to learn

You are not the problem

You merely play a part in the dynamics of a dysfunctional relationship. As we all do, normally our 'shortfalls' are of no consequence as those around us are also less than perfect and human nature enables to interact with all kinds of people, few who are "perfect'. The issue is that when you get involved with personality disorders you are interacting with someone who is on the alert for misdeeds either real or perceived. So there is no tolerance.

As a result what is "normal shortfall" is exposed and we can feel guilt and often try to overcompensate or take on too much self blame.

Once you can get past the self guilt you can see it as a chance to work on yourself for you. Don't feel guilt, feel liberation for having a chance to develop better skills which will help you in life as a whole not just your RS.

This school of hard knocks has made me a far better person, with far better vision and appreciation of life than I otherwise would ever have achieved.

It's definitely making me a far better person.

I think I went a little extreme saying that I'm the problem. I think the better phrase is I contribute to it. I used to think it was just other people's ingrained issues and attitudes that made things complicated, but now I see how I've either enabled others to continue in their dysfunction and how ignorant I was of my own. If I maintain and hold my own values, there is no reason for me to feel guilt over other people's shortcomings and complaints.

I've been working on myself for about a year now and it's been a very rocky journey. I go through phases. Some are very positive, where I'm recognising the negative and working through it diligently while offering support to others and then I have these long-winded moments of guilt and low self-esteem. I find myself wishing I could have been better, realised my wrongdoings earlier on, prevented causing pain to others. It's regret and there's too much of it.

Objectively speaking? Recognising my own flaws and shortcomings is a blessing. It means that I now have the power to change these things, I can now be better than I ever was and reap from it. I could have spent my entire life blind and in denial of the dysfunction with which I lived my life, and most people do exactly that. Instead I've become open to living a more fulfilling and positive life.

And yet, I feel terrible about myself. I have trouble accepting things. I was fueled by anxiety issues and never having learned proper boundaries in relationships. It's not my fault, because I didn't know that's what was going on, but I have trouble even saying that. Because I could've, should've, didn't.

Thanks for the post.  It's a good thing to gain insight into our lives and identify things that we want to change.

I have also recently read the boundaries book.  I also read the boundaries for Married Couples book.  Very interesting reading.

What did you find most impactful about the book?

What points are you having a hard time coming to grips with?


I'm very interested in your boyfriends boundaries... .the ones that you say he takes very seriously.   Can you tell us about some of them?  

The most impactful was the part about needing to grow up with proper boundaries, becoming compliant by nature, and feeling guilt over not complying. It's my life with my parents in a nutshell. I felt -bad- over having friends as a teenager and spending any time with them, because I was the caretaker of my younger brother.  I once spent a 4 day weekend with my best friend at her cottage and I came back to my mother yelling at me over not being there to help her prepare for a dinner party. When I started this relationship, despite being 25, I felt non-stop guilt over not being home on weekends for my family despite working 60 hours during the week and needing that time away to recover.

The biggest thing is the fact that I genuinely need to move out and become financially independant enough for it eventually in order to be a well-adjusted individual. I've talked to some of my mom's friends and even a life coach at one point who all told me the same, because they recognise how dysfunctional my life is by living at home. One friend actually sat my mom down and told her that I was 25 and I needed to lead my own life on my own terms.  My mother's response was that they were turning me against her out of spite and that it was all a bunch of bull.

Pretty much, the book validates my need to be myself and create boundaries and limits towards my family.

My boyfriend: He simply doesn't tolerate anyone spitting on his limits. If a friend of his repeatedly crosses the line, he confronts them, and gives them the option of either respecting his boundary or not being in his life.

I'd say his boundaries are too inflexible at times and the consequences too severe, but he generally doesn't let other people waste his time. The fact that he's confronted me and not sugar-coated the issue in things that I really was impacting him negatively is a good thing for me. It hurt in the moment, but in the end because he was so harsh, I got the message and it left me more self-aware. It was a lesson I needed to learn, and it made my relationships with other people more functional. I've pretty much had two huge paradigm shifts in the time that we've been together. Both played into boundaries.

I remember driving up to one of my relatives who had told me to be at her house by 9ish for preparations for a party. I came at 9:05 (4 hour trip, got lost once.) She was extremely surprised to see me on time. She'd assumed I would be just like my parents and come 2-3 hours late.

[formflier]

 

I'm glad you rephrased... .we all contribute out parts to the r/s that we are in.

It sounds like you want to move out of your parents house... .but there are some financial issues hold you back.  Do I understand that correctly?

Can you explain more about the decision to stay at home.

Living at home is not a right or wrong.  But it does "muddy the waters". 

This is something that we deal with in my house as the kids get older.  I have one in college... .he comes home occasionally.

When he is here... he pitches in to help... .and I ask him for help on certain things... .I'm way past the stage of "telling" him what to do.

So... .as long as you live at home... .there could be certain responsibilities and expectations that you parents have of you because you are in their house ... ."inside their boundaries".  Whether or not their responsibilities and expectations are reasonable... is an entirely different discussion.

Do you remember the part in the boundaries book about people that still accept financial help from mom and dad into adulthood?  What did you think of the strings that were attached to that help... .as portrayed in the book.

Looking forward to reading more posts from you!

FF

[misuniadziubek]

I'm glad you rephrased... .we all contribute out parts to the r/s that we are in.

It sounds like you want to move out of your parents house... .but there are some financial issues hold you back.  :)o I understand that correctly?

Can you explain more about the decision to stay at home.

Living at home is not a right or wrong.  But it does "muddy the waters".  

This is something that we deal with in my house as the kids get older.  I have one in college... .he comes home occasionally.

When he is here... he pitches in to help... .and I ask him for help on certain things... .I'm way past the stage of "telling" him what to do.

So... .as long as you live at home... .there could be certain responsibilities and expectations that you parents have of you because you are in their house ... ."inside their boundaries".  Whether or not their responsibilities and expectations are reasonable... is an entirely different discussion.

Do you remember the part in the boundaries book about people that still accept financial help from mom and dad into adulthood?  What did you think of the strings that were attached to that help... .as portrayed in the book.

Looking forward to reading more posts from you!

FF

My parents have not been helping me financially at all,  minus the part where I live at home, but both my brother and I pay 500 a month rent. I refuse to let them, honestly, because I know there will be strings attached.

I'm in a bit of a financial bind because when I was 18 my parents convinced me to study medicine mostly due to their own aspirations. It wasn't going well and I wanted to quit after the first year, but I kept letting them guilt me into staying. I left halfway without a degree. Zero assertiveness on my part and too afraid to not follow their wishes. So now I've got 60k of debt to my name at 600$ a month rate, plus I needed a car so I let them convince me to buy brand new. Paying just for the the car with insurance and the loan is 1200 a month already and I just recently got fired from my job.

I -do- help out around the house, but it's mostly organizational stuff for my mom and only if I have time. 

This whole situation, being locked in like this is a huge issue between my bf and I. He feels like I never grew up, that I let my parents influence way too many decisions for me, the latter being absolutely true. He wants someone who is independent and on their own and he thinks I'm stuck at 17. It's not inaccurate, but I have trouble finding a way out.

[formflier]

 

What kind of place can you get for $500 per month in your local area?

Any chance your brother is interested in getting a place with you?

[misuniadziubek]

What kind of place can you get for $500 per month in your local area?

Any chance your brother is interested in getting a place with you?

Rent in my area is 550 minimum for a basement room. It's a pretty expensive area and considering no job... .Unlikely. Brother is disabled. Will spend life living at home.

I don't have any education to fall back on right now to increase my prospects.  And other than minimum wage jobs in fast food and retail, I can't find anything decent enough to make me enough to pay my bills. This month will be the first month I can't pay even rent. My parents are being understa ding about it, but I also just underwent 2k of damages on my car with no clue where to get the money to fix it.

[waverider]

Comparing the contrasting rigidity between your parents and your bf is quite a good example between the difference between boundaries and self centered bullying.

Your bfs boundaries are about how people are negatively impacting him. The over the top aspect may be because he has insecurities about not allowing himself to be over influenced by others. Thats always a balancing act, knowing where to set boundaries. sometimes we over use boundaries when a little acceptance would be sufficient. Acceptance takes a lot of self confidence.

Your parents see you as an extension of themselves, including what you do as a reflection on them. You are both a limb and an ambassador. They need the right arm to be present and functioning to perform on demand, and they expect you to represent what they stand for to others. They dont care whether you are a doctor of a roadsweeper, but they want to be the parents of a doctor. Your career has to meet their needs.

Accepting it is your life and no one else's and you have a right to it along with all the consequences is a start.

I think you sound quite centered and heading in the right direction. Just keep consolidating on your beliefs and you with develop fine

[formflier]

[

Rent in my area is 550 minimum for a basement room. It's a pretty expensive area and considering no job... .Unlikely. Brother is disabled. Will spend life living at home.

Does your brother also pay rent or was it just you paying rent at your parents house.

What kind of technical schools (2yr) are in your area?

How close are you to getting any kind of degree (how many credits do you have)?

ff

[misuniadziubek]

Comparing the contrasting rigidity between your parents and your bf is quite a good example between the difference between boundaries and self centered bullying.

Your bfs boundaries are about how people are negatively impacting him. The over the top aspect may be because he has insecurities about not allowing himself to be over influenced by others. Thats always a balancing act, knowing where to set boundaries. sometimes we over use boundaries when a little acceptance would be sufficient. Acceptance takes a lot of self confidence.

Your parents see you as an extension of themselves, including what you do as a reflection on them. You are both a limb and an ambassador. They need the right arm to be present and functioning to perform on demand, and they expect you to represent what they stand for to others. They dont care whether you are a doctor of a roadsweeper, but they want to be the parents of a doctor. Your career has to meet their needs.

Accepting it is your life and no one else's and you have a right to it along with all the consequences is a start.

I think you sound quite centered and heading in the right direction. Just keep consolidating on your beliefs and you with develop fine

Thank you. This perfectly sums up the complications of my relationship with my parents. After I quit halfway, they refused to let anyone else know. They still tell me to lie/keep to myself when I'm around people they know. It's mind-boggling, but it's their mentality and culture. It's just unfortunate that their ambitions ended up hurting me in the process. I started having severe anxiety and depression and they blatantly ignored my expressions of need, blaming my chronic habits of internet surfing and socialisation. The truth was, those were my coping habits. When I sought support, understanding and validation from them, I got guilt and shame instead. I recently went to an evaluation by a psychiatrist in order to qualify for a workshop on anxiety. I got woken up at 3am by my mother anxious and worried because why in the world did I feel the need for any sort of mental help. Humongous stigma on seeking anything related to mental/emotional issues.

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I've been working hard on evaluating my habits and thinking patterns to find a healthy balance for my emotions. I let things be for a while, and find new ideas constantly bubbling up, reasons for why things have gone the way they have and inspiration to overcome it. I falter a lot. I become insecure for a moment or two but rational ideas overwhelm those triggers.

Despite any issues I have in my relationship with my bf, I keep reminding myself of how far I've gone in terms of becoming better in just a year. I've stopped looking at myself as a victim, I've stopped half-___ing in my life. If something bad happens, I simply take it in stride as a consequence and something I have to push through and solve on my own. That feels incredible.

[

Rent in my area is 550 minimum for a basement room. It's a pretty expensive area and considering no job... .Unlikely. Brother is disabled. Will spend life living at home.

Does your brother also pay rent or was it just you paying rent at your parents house.

What kind of technical schools (2yr) are in your area?

How close are you to getting any kind of degree (how many credits do you have)?

ff

Yeah, brother pays rent. It comes out of gov't housing support for those with disabilities. It's a condition of him living at home.

I technically don't have any credits. My previous school isn't considered accredited unless it is completed in full with a degree. The only benefit of my transcript is to show my grades to be considered for acceptance into college.

I get very defensive when I think about my situation. I think I simply can't accept it or come to terms that things are so bleak. This wasn't my idea of life at my age. I was considered someone with a very bright and successful future, blah blah. Maybe that's what I have to let go of.

I'm not really thinking about technical schools much.

[waverider]

Maybe you believed too much, for too long, in your parents promotion of who you could be. As a result you still struggle a bit to accept the reality of who you are. This is understandable it takes a long to to redefine yourself, sometimes with a little forced role playing along the way until you really accept it as natural.

[formflier]

First of all... .I want to congratulate you on your insight and self awareness... .you have already seen some fruit from this effort.  It will help you figure out who you really are.

  I got woken up at 3am by my mother anxious and worried because why in the world did I feel the need for any sort of mental help. Humongous stigma on seeking anything related to mental/emotional issues.

This is another sign of people with poor boundaries.  The boundary that defines your time to sleep was crossed by your mom.  Instead of dealing with her own feelings... even if she suspected they were caused by you... .she crossed your boundary... .and took some of your sleep in an attempt to sooth her feelings.

Yet another indicator that living somewhere else is a good step. 

I'm not really thinking about technical schools much.

If you could transport yourself back to before you went to school ... .what kind of school do you think you would like to go to?  What do you want to study? What does the job look like that you would like to have?


Final thought and encouragement... .great job pushing "victim mentality" out of your thinking.  This will be constant effort... .especially as your parents try to push across your boundaries.  Keep up the hard work!

FF