Messed up bigtime, sent SO to jail

[Riverrat]

Right and you did not cause her to be arrested.  When the police came it seems like she ran her mouth... .for whatever reason... .and the officer on the scene used his professional judgement to arrest her.

Yes, formflier, police said they were only doing a "well being check" that she was ok, and not trashing the house.  In theory, they should have just checked the house (It was perfectly fine) asked if she was ok, told her I was gone for the night, and moved on. So, I don't know what happened to get her arrested, maybe her mouth, maybe her record, maybe she acted the wrong way.

Keeping in mind the same officer was involved in a previous altercation with her hitting an officer at a bar fight in December?

Right you are! I did not cause her to be arrested! I filed no charges, wouldn't even fill out the victim form, just advised authorities what had happened and that I was leaving town for the night. What happened after that was beyond my control---(but I'll probably still get blamed for it )

JADE--Yes, I am offering too many explanations.  How about something along these lines:

I feel the physical attack on me was not warranted, and I feel hurt that you chose to express yourself in such a violent manner.  I reacted only to protect myself, not to cause police intervention or your arrest. The results of your actions are not my responsibility.

Kinda dry, huh... .

Great Idea to think this out before I face her with an explanation.

UPDATE: She was released with minimal bond this morning, and took a cab somewhere. She may have gone to work, our apartment , or may be in the process of moving out of the apartment. She can't contact me or be with me for 72 hours after the arrest, so no texts or anything.

My guess is she is at our place lounging around with the dog. I'm not sure where to go after work, as we can't be in the same place until tomorrow night. Guess I'll have to stop there and see if she is there, check on said dog, etc. I technically can't even drive her back to her place for the night.

She has to face the judge on Wednesday, where charges may or may not be dropped, and fines/costs will be assessed.

Really wish I could get her court ordered counseling with her T!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

 

Does she go to treatment?  See a T regularly?

Might want to just not discuss the incident with her... .without a counselor present. 

It's your place... .you did nothing wrong... .so if she has to go somewhere else for 72 hours or so... that's up to her.

It's not your problem to help her comply with the rules "on" her.

It's good we have some time to think about this.

What would a SET statement look like from you with the T being that you won't discuss the incident outside of counseling.  Try that and see if you can post it here.

FF

[ColdEthyl]

Riverrat you did the right thing /hug I am so sorry you are going through this.

[milesperhour]

Yes, formflier, police said they were only doing a "well being check" that she was ok, and not trashing the house.  In theory, they should have just checked the house (It was perfectly fine) asked if she was ok, told her I was gone for the night, and moved on. So, I don't know what happened to get her arrested, maybe her mouth, maybe her record, maybe she acted the wrong way.

Sounds so familiar.  On Feb. 6th, I asked my uBPDh to leave our home/business because of several weeks of raging and humiliating me and others.  I had no intention of getting the police involved, but when he followed me around the place, begging not to be thrown out, one of my employees called the police.  Then, while the police were getting the witnesses' reports and not planning on arresting him, he was so obnoxious toward them, refusing to sit still and shut up, that they slapped the handcuffs on! 

[rarsweet]

I have to point out something someone told me. ... .if you ask for help but keep going back eventually no one will be willing to help anymore.

[Riverrat]

Thanks again, everyone.

Soo depressed about this whole situation. I know it's a BPD thing, even met with my T yesterday, and a close friend this AM.

While trying to take care of myself. like most, it has caused me to go numb--can't sleep, having trouble focusing, jobs are not getting done, and thinking about SO, and if she is ok.

I did speak to her Mom again this AM, and SO is staying at her old place, even tho most of her stuff is with me. She is OK, and Mom said she will talk to me after court Wednesday AM.

So she will either take her things and move out, or we can reach some common ground tomorrow I guess.

Just really need to put this behind me, one way or another. It really is very traumatic, I will work on FF's SET exercise in a while.

I have accepted that it's NOT MY FAULT, and will not take the blame for her actions, or JADE my response to those actions.  SHE is responsible for those actions and any consequences that come from that. My boundary is that I will NOT allow DV or physical abuse in our r/s.  I have stated that to her before, and I feel I have reinforced that now. If she chooses to end the r/s, that is her decision, and I respect that as well.

See you all later---Struggling through a difficult day here.

[formflier]

 

Hang in there... .I'll add some more comments later.

 

Tell us about your support system.  Seems like you have a T... and at least one good friend to lean on.

BPD family is an important part of your support system... .but it is on leg of a system to hold up your "stool"... .(hope that analogy works.


FF

[Riverrat]

Hi FF,

Thanks for your help!

She has a counselor but dBPDgf is too busy to schedule an appt., and hasn't seen her in weeks--in fact has only seen her about 3 times in total.

I see a different T weekly. It is very helpful, as his wife (now deceased) had BPD. He has some great empathy and insight.

My other support system includes a lifelong close friend (more like a brother) numerous male and female friends, and my D21 foster daughter. My family loves SO, but they know she has some issues, but not the whole story.

SET- Not sure on this. Was thinking something along the lines of:

"I feel that some of my actions and comments upset you, and also feel that you are sometimes disappointed with me as your boyfriend. I realize that this greatly upsets you, and am working on the issues you have identified to me, both alone and with my T. I would like to be able to discuss this with you further, but in the presence of your T. Maybe we could schedule a joint appointment this week."

I also posted this response to her:quote author=Riverrat link=topic=274457.msg12601921#msg12601921 date=1428349895]

JADE--Yes, I am offering too many explanations.  How about something along these lines:

"I feel the physical attack on me was not warranted, and I feel hurt that you chose to express yourself in such a violent manner.  I reacted only to protect myself, not to cause police intervention or your arrest. The results of your actions are not my responsibility."

Kinda dry, huh... .


She has to face the judge on Wednesday, where charges may or may not be dropped, and fines/costs will be assessed.

Really wish I could get her court ordered counseling with her T![/quote]


I did spend a few hours talking to my friend this evening, he's met SO, but is of the opinion that I probably need to move on away from her. If she was serious about getting help, things might be different, but he also feels the rages and comments are escalating as she sets the hook deeper.

Thanks for any thoughts FF, and others!

Hopefully things will get back to our "normal" routine tomorrow after court.

[hope2727]

I think your thread should be called "She messed up big time, SO sent to jail."

She is an adult. There is tons of help available and she knows it. If she wants it she will access it. You can do nothing. Let me repeat that ... .YOU CAN DO NOTHING. Let the chips fall where they may.

Meanwhile make a list on a page of everything you want in a healthy relationship. Then on the other side in a different colour make a list of all her choices and behaviours. I think you will be surprised about what you discover. 

[Riverrat]

Hope, You are so right.

Not the relationship I signed up for.

She did this to herself--and I refuse to take responsibility for her DV actions.

We set her up with tools to help herself. SHE needs to pick them and start using them.

[hope2727]

Hope, You are so right.

Not the relationship I signed up for.

She did this to herself--and I refuse to take responsibility for her DV actions.

We set her up with tools to help herself. SHE needs to pick them and start using them.

Well done.

Now what tools are you going to pick up for yourself?

[babyducks]

Hi Riverrat,

I just wanted to chime in and offer my support.   Hang in there!   

You mentioned in an earlier post that you were feeling the fall out from this situation.  I had a somewhat similar situation in my r/s and experienced a lot of what you mentioned,  feeling numb,   having trouble focusing, trouble sleeping.   That's pretty natural.  I also was pretty jumpy and unusually irritable for about two weeks.  My take is that it's a normal reaction to your physical and psychic self being attacked.   It felt to me like recovering from a bad bout of the flu.  So hang in there and keep being good to yourself.  Treat yourself like you are recovering from an illness or an injury because you are.  Push fluids, rest more,   don't start any huge projects.   

I think it's a great idea to practice SET statements before you are actually going to need them.   Smart idea.   This is tough stuff.   I did notice one small thing in one of your statements.   Just my two cents.

"I feel the physical attack on me was not warranted, and I feel hurt that you chose to express yourself in such a violent manner.  I reacted only to protect myself, not to cause police intervention or your arrest. The results of your actions are not my responsibility."

I would tweak that a little to say "no physical attack is ever warranted".   I'm afraid if you leave it the way it is, it leaves an opening for debate.   "oh you feel,... well I feel"  and I would suggest you don't want to any room for maneuvering around the boundary of no violence.   

Good luck today.   I'm rooting for you.

'ducks

[formflier]

Hope, You are so right.

Not the relationship I signed up for.

She did this to herself--and I refuse to take responsibility for her DV actions.

We set her up with tools to help herself. SHE needs to pick them and start using them.

There you go!  That is the answer

Now... given that time is short here... .it is important to realize that you don't control what she does. 

You do control if you allow her back into the r/s if sh is not "picking up tools and using them". 

When you try something like that she ... .most likely... .will try to claim you are punishing her.   You are note... .she has demonstrated she has a problem that is beyond her "self help" or her being able to use her will to overcome whatever is going on. 

Letting bygones be bygones and forgiving with no action on her part... .is unlikely to result in her getting better.

So... .what does all this look like in your r/s.

How can you express that in a positive way to her (if given the chance).

What is the plan to protect yourself if she wants to r/s to continue?

Hang in there!       You are going well processing all this... .IMO... .your attitudes are healthy.  Keep it up.

[Grey Kitty]

JADE--Yes, I am offering too many explanations.  How about something along these lines:

"I feel the physical attack on me was not warranted, and I feel hurt that you chose to express yourself in such a violent manner.  I reacted only to protect myself, not to cause police intervention or your arrest. The results of your actions are not my responsibility."

Kinda dry, huh... .

Still sounds a little like JADEing to me. Two other critiques:

1. Telling her how you feel hurt isn't likely to go well, unless she is in a particularly open and loving mood.

2. Stating that you feel the physical attack was not warranted is way too soft in my book. A physical attack is NEVER warranted. I wouldn't soft-pedal that bit at all. Given how dangerous her history sounds, I'd consider taking the approach that the next time she physically attacks you will be the last time she sees you. Ever.


Instead, I'd be ready for some boundary enforcement... .if she starts verbally attacking you or blaming you for her going to jail, which I expect will happen, I might say something like this:

"Physical abuse is not acceptable. You went to jail because of some combination of your own behavior in the presence of the police and your behavior toward me earlier that day. Blaming the victim of the abuse is also not acceptable."

The most important thing to understand about abusive behavior (Physical, verbal, or any other kind) is the purpose: To control the victim. [NOTE: She may not be aware of this, but that doesn't make her behavior any less effective. I've read some descriptions of how cults brainwash people, and a pwBPD acts as if they read the playbook, even though they haven't!)

The controlling can be accomplished with the threat of abuse or the memory of abuse, as well as by directly being abusive. Blaming you for her abusive behavior ("You made me do it", etc.) is one more part of the package.

So don't let her do any of this to you now. The good news is that with proper boundary enforcement, you can prevent this. Given her history, your boundary enforcement actions may involve calling police again... .or perhaps she is learning to better control herself.

[Riverrat]

Thanks everyone---I'm off to pick her up for court!

Feeling much better about the whole sitch at this point, and where I need to stand with her!

Even wrote out my SET statement. Thanks 'ducks!

[formflier]

Thanks everyone---I'm off to pick her up for court!

Feeling much better about the whole sitch at this point, and where I need to stand with her!

Even wrote out my SET statement. Thanks 'ducks!

So... your first contact with her will be picking her up... .to get her to court?   Hmmm... .why not let her get herself there?

Is the no contact thing over?

FF

[hope2727]

Thanks everyone---I'm off to pick her up for court!

Feeling much better about the whole sitch at this point, and where I need to stand with her!

Even wrote out my SET statement. Thanks 'ducks!

So... your first contact with her will be picking her up... .to get her to court?   Hmmm... .why not let her get herself there?

Is the no contact thing over?

FF

I so agree. She is an adult. She can get to court on her own. Her actions have consequences. This is one of them. Who are you to deny her the life lesson of experiencing that consequence.

I would go with "your actions have consequences" as one of the few and perhaps only things I would say to her.

[vortex of confusion]

Sideline questions to everybody here:  Do we really have to stop doing nice things for our pwBPD, just to "teach them a lesson"?  Would refusing to drive her to court actually teach her anything?  Is this really part of tough love?  I understand the truth of "Spare the rod and spoil the child", but our SOs wBPD are not children!  They are adults and cannot be trained like children.  Doesn't withholding our usual help from our pwBPD seem like manipulation on our part?  Kind'a like, "Then he'll see how much he needs me, and that'll teach 'em!"  What about those of us who do not feel that we need to (or want to) teach anybody a lesson? 

I don't think it is about teaching them a lesson as much as it is about keeping yourself safe. His partner assaulted him. If a stranger assaulted you, would you go pick them up and take them to court? Probably not. Why do we give our partners so much consideration? They abuse us and we feel bad about it.

I don't really see it as being about the spouse. I see it as being about protecting oneself and setting healthy boundaries. If somebody assaults you, gets out of jail, and expects you to take them to court, that seems a bit extreme. If you DO take them to court, then isn't that saying that you don't really have any boundaries? Do whatever you want to me and I will still be there for you?

In my mind, it isn't about teaching anybody a lesson or punishing anybody. If it is done to teach a lesson or get revenge, then that isn't good either. If it is done, it should be done to protect yourself. I think it should be about YOU rather than the other person.

[Riverrat]

Thanks everyone for all your comments and suggestions. I have reread them all several times, and have found them extremely helpful and informative.

My driving her to court came from a convo with her mother, who has been driving her everywhere this week, and loaning her money for her activities, DUI classes, etc.

I had offered to drive to her Mom, knowing she couldn't take off of her job to drive. She is out of money, so taxi not an option.

SO was barely pleasant, looked very distressed and had been crying. Her Mom had talked to her in person the previous evening. We got her there, and her lawyer was unavailable, so the case was continued. I did speak to the prosecutor, not about any of her actions, but about it being part of her diagnosed disorder, which the court is aware of.  Also our financial situation and her dedication to her dui program. With this new understanding, he promised to do what he could to lessen the impact on her.

She had wanted to "talk to me" after court, but on the way back to her place she became quiet, then asked me if I wanted to tell HER anything.  I used all the tools I had practiced to SET, ending with my support for any changes she wanted to make in her life. She asked for some time to think, asking if we could meet for dinner after her DUI class Thurs. night. I agreed to meet with her and dropped her off at her old place.

I could see she was deep in thought and very confused, and when I told her about just reporting the incident, and my concern for her--very surprised. I did share that I could not tolerate any DV in any relationships that I have. She seemed to agree with that.

I feel that I laid the DV responsibility in her lap, with her being responsible for the consequences. She seemed to accept that, but looking to see what she says tomorrow night. Going NC til then, unless she contacts me.

She didn't seem to blame me for jail, and seemed to understand that I was just reporting it to cover my tail, and concern for her safety.  I did state that she often says/does things during rages, not remembering it later, and she was still raging when I left, even in the driveway on Saturday.

I think she got my message about violence and control.

All in all it went well. Though disappointed she didn't come home with me, I feel in the long run it better to think things through. We'll see what she comes up with by tomorrow night.

I took the rest of the afternoon off to relax and organize my thoughts a bit, as I think I need a break 

[formflier]

My driving her to court came from a convo with her mother, who has been driving her everywhere this week, and loaning her money for her activities, DUI classes, etc.

I had offered to drive to her Mom, knowing she couldn't take off of her job to drive. She is out of money, so taxi not an option.

Why would it be the mom's responsibility to drive her?

I'm not suggesting this was wrong... .also not saying it is completely right. 

If there is a pattern of "picking up" after other people even after they continually mess up... .then the people that are "picking up" after the ones messing up... .are actually enabling... or contributing to the issue.

Just something to think on.

Another thought on the DV issue.  Look at her actions to figure out how serious she is about reforming... .getting treatment... etc etc.

After you see plenty of action... .then look to rekindle the r/s... .as opposed to taking her back on promises of action.

The key is that she get better... .get the help she needs.

FF

[formflier]

 

I'm not saying that you are in a bad triangle situation... .just that this is something to be really careful about.

You have a lot of critical things that will be happening quickly in your r/s... .this is something to think through.

Please read and consider triangulation

Hope this helps!

FF

[eyvindr]

Hi Riverrat --

Forgive me for jumping in the middle of your thread -- I know we haven't met yet.

I'm really sorry that you're going through this. There's nothing easy about it. It's clear that you really do care for this person... .I truly believe that, and I believe that it is genuine. I'm sure she cares for you, too... .in her own completely dysfunctional, unhealthy and dangerous way.

Far be it for me to presume that I can give anyone advice -- and forgive me for this unsolicited feedback. But, geez -- this is your life, man. It's cool and noble and compassionate and wonderful that you're able to understand that your lover has issues. In other words, that in many cases all of her deplorable behaviors -- the anger, the selfishness, the abuse, the entitlement -- is out of her control, due to her illness. That may be actually completely true.

But even if she's not in control of herself, she is still completely 100% responsible for her behavior.

Just like you are.

We're the same age, man. W-A-Y too old for this level of childish drama in our romantic r-ships. Old enough to know better. This girl -- I'm sure she's terrific in many ways. But she's dangerous -- to herself and to you.

[Riverrat]

I am not discounting or making excuses for SO deregulating behavior. What she did is not only wrong, but illegal, and threatening to me as well.

BPD or not, when you are attacked, and your SO is not only out of control, not speaking rationally, not being herself, and then can't remember what was said or done. It IS scary. Even having been friends for 10 years as we have been, and seen it numerous times, it is unsettling, and while I can always trust her with anything--truck, money, keys to apt. my wallet anything-I do worry when she deregulates.

I DO agree--she needs help, bigtime. And my best interest is to leave her on the side of the road if she refuses to get it. She needs to show me and Mom that she is committed to reform. Or we really do need to step back until SHE decides to make it happen. I did review triangulation lesson, and can see where this can easily occur.

Eyvindr, I realize this IS a very toxic relationship. It is daily drama, and even though I'm strong emotionally, (raised 6 foster kids) have patience and can tolerate a lot, I realize she IS dangerous both to me and herself.

And she is responsible for her behavior as well. 100%. At this point I will see if she wants our friendship to continue. I AM a long way from having a romantic r/s with this lady.

Thanks again everyone--we will see how things go tonight 

[babyducks]

I took the rest of the afternoon off to relax and organize my thoughts a bit, as I think I need a break 

Good for you River!   

You've been through a lot in a short period of time and you are handling it the best any one could.   This is tough stuff.   I hope you continue to give yourself a breather and take some time to just let thoughts bubble to the surface.

You said you are emotionally strong and holy cow you must be, because you are here writing in full and coherent sentences when I am sure I would be a gibbering monkey.     I have had a violent outburst in my r/s, not as significant as yours, and have felt how draining and depleting it was. 

Please keep taking good care of yourself.   Rest.   Eat.   Sleep.   Exercise a little.   Recharge your emotional batteries.

'ducks

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .