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Author Topic: didn't jade... did ok with validation... but now what? Need some input  (Read 418 times)
rise_up
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« on: April 09, 2015, 06:58:40 PM »

I'm slowly starting to learn that with every sweet and meaningful thing my so wBPD says to me... .it's usually paired with downward spiral days... .and that I feel the need to reset to "zero" every 24 hrs or so.

My SO and I have had some issues over the course of our relationship regarding her ability to reach me at work. She does a good job of being available to me but she doesn't feel the same towards me.  My partner does not call or text me incessantly at all. When she does try to contact me it is normally questions like do you need anything from the store? Do you want to meet up for drinks after work?

I have not replied in a timely manner and she has felt disrespected.

After a lot of fights, I recently committed to keeping phone not silent at work... .but reducing the volume of dings and rings so that I can hear them.

It is very important to me to keep this commitment because I do have a bad habit of breaking promises and it is not fair. I have even told lies to my BPD to avoid her rage.

I had a late meeting today from 4-5 (I usually leave at 4:30)  and told my SO well in advance about that. I even texted her at 3:55 reminding her lovingly. In my meeting with my boss and three other people, I hear 4 or 5 dings. I realized it was my phone and it kept dinging. It was my SO who sent a long text full of i love yous and lots of smiley faces. It was broken up into 4 or 5 messages which is why it kept making noise. Concerned that it would keep ding ing I quickly made the phone silent for the rest of the meeting. After that I realize that she texted again- asking if she would like to meet for drinks or just meet me home... .She sent it 45 mins ago. I immediately called and she was furious. That I left her hanging not knowing if I wanted to go out or not. She proceeded to spiral downwards and call me a pathological liar... .that u don't care... .and do whatever the hell I want... .over and over. I've been trying really hard not to JADE lately and I held my tongue.

I tried validating her... .and I think I did well... .but she said "this thing you do... .trying to talk to me in a different way... .it's not working. Don't dare tell me how I feel. This is about you and your lies. I've been lied to for 3 years... .I see right through you"

I was at a loss for words. She kept making things bigger... that I'm a horrible person.! but I tried to stay at the source. That my mistake was silencing my phone when I said I wouldn't. I've actually done very well with being reachable... .but I didn't JADE. She said it's not a mistake that I did it willingly and she doesn't care about what my intentions were or my feelings. I know that I've lied in the past... .and ashamed of it. I can sincerely say now that I am more committed than ever to being someone she can rely on. But even if I were perfect... .I think she would still find something.

All of this was over the phone. I'm guessing I could have done better exiting the situation after validating... .I need to be better at that. What's dumbfounding me is that a few days ago she said she really appreciated how I've changed the way I speak to her when she is upset. But she used that against me today. I'm at a loss.

She came home and went right to bed. I anticipate more negativity if or when she wakes up... .later tonight or tomorrow...

I just feel angry. And I also feel like almost laughing because everything she said a few days ago feels like a lie to me... .and she doesn't truly feel like I've made improvements.

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Mike-X
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« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2015, 07:19:06 PM »

Sorry. Why are you taking what she said while in a dysregulated state as her true thoughts and what she said earlier in the week, while calm, as lies?  I know how confusing it can be, but I am curious as to why you are picking one over the other.

Can you provide details on the validation that you provided?

I don't know what your work situation is, but should there be a boundary in place that she shouldn't expect you to respond to texts while in meetings at work, especially with your boss?
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rise_up
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« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 08:21:15 PM »

Why i seem to be picking one over the other- I suppose that the negative things she says in a dysregulated state come across as far more strong (obviously) and with tons more emphasis. But the more I think I about it... .she feels strongly either way... .whether in idealizing or splitting mode. I guess it's just hurtful and it seems to stick more... .and that's my responsibility to decide.

Details on validation:

I said things like, "you were expecting a response from me and you were waiting to make plans... either to stay out or to drive home. I imagine that must have been very frustrating"

I said other things like "it makes sense that you would be upset with me when I said earlier that I would do better with responding to you"

My work situation is a regular 8-4:30 job in the corporate world. I have a lot of meetings... .some of them scheduled and others impromptu.some meetings I'm not the participant but the facilitator. I also conduct trainings. My SO's job is more 'blue collar' ... she doesn't have a good boss and is also a manager herself. She left a lucrative career In carpentry 3 yrs ago to pursue our relationship. She does resent me for making almost double than her salary wise. And also brings up the "I gave up everything for you" line when she gets very upset. With the difference in our jobs I think she feels like I 'owe her' because she thinks she works harder than I do and that I have 'an easy cushy job' so I have no excuse to not respond to her. Again, this comes up when she is upset. Other times she is very proud of me and what I do. She doesn't call or text often at work... .because that is a boundary and she wouldn't do that. Because of that, I think she feels like she doesn't ask for much and therefore I should respond somehow... .
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Mustbeabetterway
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 06:39:36 AM »

Hi Rise Up,  good for you for not JADEing.  It sounds like you are trying to placate her need for you to be available even when in meetings.  That does not sound reasonable.  Sounds like FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) are at play.  If you told her at 3:55 that you would be unavailable, she seems to be testing your boundaries.  

That your job is not black and white, but involves gray areas may be difficult for her to accept.   Sometimes you can respond and sometimes you cannot.  Gray areas are difficult for pwBPD.

About keeping promises, trust can be built only if you can follow through consistently.  If you are sometimes unavailable, then you can't follow through on a promise to always be available.  You know you are trying and making a good effort but pwBPD may seem to only remember the one time you didn't follow through.

Perhaps something like - I am avaiable before 8 and after 4:30 unless it is an emergency.  That sounds reasonable to me.  Actually, my work situation is similar to yours and that is what I do.  I leave my SO a message when i get to work reassuring that I am there safely, love him and look forward to seeing him later.  Then i give him a call or text after work.  It is a relief to not have to check my phone all day and worry that I am not able to get back to him.

I have trouble too with things said during dysregulations!  That is tough.  Sometimes my SO says things when he is angry "just to piss me off".  I am getting better at not listening to that crap.  

Good work!  Seems like you are doing a lot to not make things worse.
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formflier
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 08:40:08 AM »

 

Rise up,

Here is the thing.  You have promised to try better... .and for nons... .this makes sense.  '

However pwBPD will evaluate "trying better" very differently that you.  They will question you... .which leads to explaination... .JADE.

I would validate the frustration of not being able to get to you... .but I wouldn't try to change your work habits.

You can get to your texts... .when your work allows... .end of story.

Some days will be better... .some will be worse... .that's life.  It's not your fault.

OK... now... since you have promised... .I don't think I would back out now.  It may work... .she may be happy... .but doubtful.

So... .I'm more interested in getting your mind right for when she wants you to answer even more quickly. 

Thoughts?

FF
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babyducks
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 04:28:14 PM »

Hi rise up,

I often times have those run away arguments with my partner;  that seem to start out of nothing and then go round and round and end up on the moon.   

In fact I just posted a thread about a similar argument (different topic, same general premise)  about a week ago. 

Grey Kitty responded and I like the response so much that I cut and pasted it in here.

You know what wasn't working and what would work better. Perhaps I can help you understand why it didn't work.

We have something in the lessons about "How to get out of a circular argument." That is exactly what you were in.

She's not going to leave the circular argument willingly... .because she *is* getting something out of it. What she's getting is a chance to avoid her uncomfortable feelings by blaming you for them.

Anything you do that is 'rational' or 'reasonable' will point out that you aren't to blame for her feelings. Which will invalidate her... .and make things worse.

If you want to end the circular argument before it turns into a full-blown rage, you have to walk away... .while she is telling you that it is your fault, you are being unreasonable, you aren't listening to her, etc., etc., etc.

A statement like "I cannot participate in this discussion anymore." is the best you can do.

Boy that made bunches of sense to me.   

Our circular arguments always start with her feeling disrespected, her needs not being considered, and her heightened rejection sensitivity going through the roof.   There is always a germ of truth in there somewhere,  for me the one that set us off was I didn't want her to attend an event with me.   BOOM, and we are off.

Some times I can validate and it stops the progression,  sometimes the disorder wins and the best I can do is stop the discussion and walk away.

When my partner deregulates to the point where she is telling me I am dishonest and uncaring there is no point listening to that.  It's not good for either of us.   I try to disengage gently.   Something along the lines of "your thoughts are important to me but I need to take a break from this conversation now"  if I am physically leaving or ending a conversation on the phone I will say I'll call you back tomorrow or see you later or we will talk again later so as not to trigger an abandonment issue.

my take from my experience is there is no perfect solution to the cell phone dilemma, the demands and reactions will continue to be fluid and unreasonable.   I would suggest you practice a SET statement.   A short simple one and then stick too it.   Something like,

I can see that it's important for you to be able to reach me occasionally during the day.

It must be hard to feel you were left hanging.  That would upset anyone.

You're calls and texts are important to me.  I will do the best I can to take them.  There will be times I won't be able to get right back to you.  I will reply as soon as I can.

in your own words of course.   And probably shorter.    Smiling (click to insert in post)

'ducks


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Riverrat
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2015, 10:14:32 AM »

I don't use the word 'trying' at all. It triggers my SO like ff stated.  My pwBPD says "trying is not good enough"  she wants more effort.

So I try to either state that "Yes I will do something different" or "I will change that" . Even if I fail in her eyes at something different, I think she sees the commitment that I am changing... .not just "trying"

All in the wording sometimes I guess... .

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formflier
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2015, 02:10:40 PM »

 

Couple things.

My family did a lot of family T over the last summer.  ":)oing your best"... .was one of the concepts we talked about.

That seems to have helped shift thinking.

If there are complaints about something (usually my effort) not being good enough.  Unless I have made a gross error... .I explain that I gave it my best effort... .and that is what we have. 

And drop it.


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