Required joint decisions make exNPD/BPDh feel controlled?

[Ulysses]

Well, over the last few months exNPD/BPDh has been making unilateral decisions regarding health care and activities for our children.  Our parenting plan states these (except emergency care) shall be joint decision. 

He signed them up for an ongoing activity in January (ran for 10 weeks) that occurred weekly, one week on his day, one week on mine.  He didn't mention it to me until after he'd signed them up and taken them to the first session.  On the advice of my attorney I emailed him that I would make an exception this one time and the kids could go because I felt it was in their best interest, and he could take them.  But to not do this again.  His response was that he didn't decide on the time of the activity, the organization did.

He did it again, signed them up for a continuation of the activity, now running into late spring.  My T suggested I just say when it's in their best interest, he can take them during their time with me.  She suggested I not mention him violating the parenting plan.  My attorney advised me to tell him I won't take them and he needs to stop doing this, and follow the parenting plan.

He also made a doctor's apt for our S11 without telling me, to get our him contact lenses.  The appt fell on my time because of spring break, otherwise I wouldn't have known about it until after the fact.  Clear violation of our parenting plan.  It didn't work out for me to take S11, or for his dad (because of my schedule), so of course S11 is disappointed and perhaps mad at me for "ruining" this.  He'll have an appt. later this spring, and I can't respond to his disappointment other than to acknowledge it, validate it, and, (and maybe this was the wrong thing to do) casually mention that no one told me about the appointment, and had I been notified when the appointment was made a few months ago, I could have worked out our schedule to fit it in (the doctor only schedules months in advance for this type of appt).

I finally got brave and sent their dad emails.  Polite, to the point.  Stated I felt he isn't following the parenting plan, explained I'd like to discuss health care, activities that fall on my residential time, as we agreed to, and also pointed out the activity he signed them up for takes place at an organization that requires a membership, which I haven't bought, so actually I can't take them anyway.

His response tonight was he'd get back to me, then a few paragraphs about how he feels I'm trying to control his actions and decisions.

The best part at this point is I almost laughed when I read his email.  It was absurd.  I want to respond, feelings aren't facts, but at this point I'm not going to respond.  That response would get me off track (my T once said he's very good at changing the subject, and I see that more now).  I'm beginning to wonder what his response would look like to a judge.

I wonder if my T didn't want me to say anything about the parenting plan because that would put me in the role of scolding mother-figure or nagging ex-wife.  Or that he would get angry and try to get revenge.  I also wonder how he'll get back at me but I still feel it's best that I stated what I did regarding our parenting plan.

Thanks for listening.  Any thoughts on handling this in an way the reduces conflict yet doesn't turn me into a doormat is always appreciated.

[livednlearned]

The challenging part of this is that you have two objectives, and they can sometimes be at cross purposes. You might need to decide about winning the battle or winning the war.

The first is setting boundaries so that you demonstrate consistently that your ex cannot make decisions about the kids' activities on your time. The second is to look at his decisions and decide if it's best for the kids.

My L counseled me to let things go if they benefited S13, if it was something in his best interest. Especially if we were preparing to file a motion to modify something in the court order. She would say, "We want to modify custody for these 10 reasons. Also, N/BPDx continues to schedule activities that interfere with my client's parenting time. This behavior, in addition to these 9 other behaviors, contribute to the situation we're in, and because of that we are asking to modify custody."

[Sunfl0wer]

Sorry you are going through this.  (I have been there with uexBPDbf's exwife who is uBPD.).

Dealing with being bullied by this woman was just devastating to us all.

I imagine that your T must be coming from the perspective that nothing good will come of it anyway, so why bother stirring up the pot.  That the "fight" is not worth the result.

The approach that worked for me was... .

State the facts simply and objectively and educate, using clips of PP when possible, being robotic.

Decided on a course of action that is NOT dependent on your ex... .and state it, along with how you "want/expect" him to behave.

Then move on actually expecting nothing and no longer engage on the topic.

For example, in email, I would write:

Stating facts:  According to section 4 paragraph 3 in the PP, ":)ecisions of choosing activities are to be mutually agreed by both parents prior to enrollment."

Enrolling the children in basketball camp would have required both your permission and my permission, therefore it is in legal violation of the court ordered parenting plan.

Educating him on what he "should" do: I do not expect that the children would be attending basketball camp at all, as this as it is a violation of our original agreement.

Educating him on what you WILL do: I will not be bringing children to this camp and will continue to follow visitations as per our legal agreement/PP.  (And if he does take kids on his time... .just drop it and not mention it)

If I got a counter argument to this... .

I would simply repeat myself:  there is no agreement in place to support enrollment into basketball camp.  As per PP, permission is required by both parents.  In the future, we should both reach out to one another to discuss these decisions before committing in any way to ensure we are in full compliance with PP.

I would not even mention anything like fees for joining a club really... .or it being "on my time" which he could flip and tell himself and kids I am selfish... .all of that stuff is a distraction.

This is just my opinion, what I usually would make up... .so idk... .just an option to consider.  I imagine, any response can backfire.  And when I say "it worked for me," I mean that it helped me to have a format to deal with these matters so I did not feel like I was inventing the wheel caught up in drama each time.  I pretended I was a robot.  It helped to protect me emotionally.  This is not to say that she complied or didn't try to engage in a back/forth.

Also, I noticed that you chose to not confront by stating that the issue was he scheduled it on HIS time.  That is not the only issue.  He scheduled an activity without considering that you have joint decision making.  Even if it was on his time, that is in violation.

These back and forth opinions would confuse things and make uBPDexw legitimately confused and she would "retranslate" that damn PP weekly.  That is NOT necessary, the PP IS and should be black/white just to avoid this type of unilateral parenting. 

Now the flip side of this... .  His behavior of unilateral decisions effectively communicates that he doesn't recognize you as an equal parent worthy of joint decisions?  Is T concerned that confrontation could lead to full on alienation campaign?  If so... .then idk... .that would be worth considering and not adding any gasoline to.  You do not want to start a launch sequence to the beginning of parental alienation. 

(Which you could be at risk... .since you already look like bad guy with contact lenses... .it feels like a set up in a way to me)

[Ulysses]

Thanks for the responses.  It helps me clarify things. 

Sometimes I think I don't care anymore if he dysregulates.  Famous last words.

I agree that there are two objectives.  I really think my primary objective is doing what's in the best interest of my children.  At the same time, it's difficult to let things go on because then when it becomes intolerable and I finally speak up, I anticipate my exNPD/BPDh's response will be, "Well, you didn't say anything the previous 10 times, so why now?"

Which kind of leads me to Sunfl0wer's points.  I think I've started to use your approach, by stating the facts, quoting the PP, then backing off and not expecting much.  And I keep the communication as proof I'm communicating civilly and trying to follow the parenting plan, and expressing my concern that he's not.  His latest response indicates he's not addressing the PP, he's addressing what he wants to do/what feels good to him (apparently a well-established pattern).  Yes, I need to make sure I'm addressing what's best for the children.

I also then bring it up with kids' therapists if I feel exH's actions might have a negative impact on the kids, and the Ts can help the kids when they meet with the kids (e.g. not letting the kids talk to me on the phone). 

Part of the reason I mentioned the issue of joining a club that requires dues/fees is that if he takes me to court, this is something that I would like a mediator or judge to see.  I was a SAHM for 12 years, the exH makes a very good salary, spends more than he makes, and I've given up child support so our kids can stay in private school, which our son needs.  I currently live with my family while I'm saving up for my own place.  ExH complained about paying what he agreed to pay during mediation, and we had to go back to the mediator, who sided with my take on things.

Anyway, I also question the activities on different residential time.  I'm still unclear how that works.  I don't want to be painted as a meddling ex-wife.  ExH states angrily that when he has the kids, he makes the decisions, etc.  Yet last summer he gushed in court and court papers about how great we are at co-parenting.  Yet he doesn't seem to co-parent.  Our PP says activities will be decided jointly, it doesn't say activities on one parent's time or the other.  I'm not going to try to tell him what he should do when the kids are with him, even if it's an activity and I could bring up the PP.  At least not right now, because he'll say I'm crazy, toxic, controlling, even though our PP clearly states we decide new activities jointly.  I do think it's especially a problem when activities that require continuity aren't decided jointly.

I do worry quite a bit right now about parental alienation.  I see it with S11 and the contacts.  I felt it over spring break.  ExH took them to Disneyland over mid-winter break.  I worked extra hours over spring break and they were watched by my relatives.  It's not a competition, and I don't feel guilty or icky, but I do figure they see the difference in our households right now.  However, I know in my heart that I'm going to offer the love I can and they won't/don't have the rollercoaster excitement/chaos they have with him. 

And yes, he doesn't consider me an equal (in the past, he has flipped between "she's a better parent than I am" and "you practically abuse those kids!".  When we were still married I remember telling my T things that were happening and she named it for me.  She told me, "He's undermining you as a parent."  So in some ways it's eye-opening to see it happening right now.  I can feel it and see it and I have enough confidence in my parenting abilities that it doesn't affect me much.  The way he treated me as a person and wife DID get to me and I'm still digging out of that.  It's such a mess.  I try to have faith that my children will be ok.  They are both very smart and they're both in therapy.

Thanks again, there are so many issues in this tangled mess that it's hard to know how to approach things.  Trial and error, and if I make a mistake it's not the end of the world.

[Sunfl0wer]

I'm not going to try to tell him what he should do when the kids are with him, even if it's an activity and I could bring up the PP.  At least not right now, because he'll say I'm crazy, toxic, controlling, even though our PP clearly states we decide new activities jointly.  I do think it's especially a problem when activities that require continuity aren't decided jointly

For us, it did matter, for two reasons.

1. Every time she did not follow the PP, like every week, she just got farther and farther away from it as time went on, till her understanding of it just confused herself.  She literally could not understand it.  And then when it DID matter, in her head, she was thinking, "well then why didn't someone complain last month, THEY must be the ones wrong."

2. D had two minor medical considerations that uBPDmom would ignore because of course her child is "perfect," and "can do anything," and honestly tho, it could easily be forgotten by the best of us.  So we did not want her participating in a self defense class that would allow her to be slammed on the floor into the mat or grapple with others.  We support this type of class generally, however, not for D because of her weak knee, she spent a year prior in a brace and not allowed gym two yrs, there was no way we thought it wouldn't reinjure, however, mom was determined and argued, but in the end she backed down on this.

Anyway, I was actually curious about this topic tho and wondering if others were going to chime in to offer an opposing views and say, "well, for us, dropping it and not challenging him worked best."

Because honestly, I just don't know what is best and I wonder about many others experiences in this area.

I do worry quite a bit right now about parental alienation.  I see it with S11 and the contacts.  I felt it over spring break.  ExH took them to Disneyland over mid-winter break.  I worked extra hours over spring break and they were watched by my relatives.  It's not a competition, and I don't feel guilty or icky, but I do figure they see the difference in our households right now.  However, I know in my heart that I'm going to offer the love I can and they won't/don't have the rollercoaster excitement/chaos they have with him.

 

Yes, I think even though kids may have the best fun with dad, they are perceptive and will feel stable and secure with you.  My son sees and understands that now, he is 18 and is now able to look back and see that what I was doing all those years, was my best efforts at parenting, not just being Mrs. Meanie.

I am certainly not a professional on any of these matters, however, I can share what I watched this week. I watched all of the video's another poster recommended by psychologist Dr. Craig Childress, on parental alienation.  While the focus was on how that sequences occurs, the converse seems true and important in your case.  Parental alienation begins with a child who changes and initially wants to bond with you but then starts to hold themselves back from the bonding process.  So I imagine, as long as your children return and in several days after being with you, are able to continue to feel safe bonding with you as usual, then you guys are good.

Thanks again, there are so many issues in this tangled mess that it's hard to know how to approach things.  Trial and error, and if I make a mistake it's not the end of the world.

I think your situation is tricky and stressful because with a ExpwBPD, no matter what move you make, you can get a negative response, hence everything can kinda feel like a "mistake." 

(I apologize, I am new to posting, only been doing this in the past 2 months, however I am learning along the way and seeing things that can be more helpful than others.  I think in this thread specifically, I could have found a way to keep things simpler.  I hope my droned on responses did not make your issue feel bigger than it is. And I hope you see my views as just my experiences and one of many... .even tho there are not many here)

In any event, the reason I replied, is because out of the past 5 yrs with my uBPD exBF, dealing with co parenting with his uBPDexw was so painful and one of the worse and most confusing things we had to deal with.  My heart goes out to you for being in this position and all that you have to be strong for and consider while in this unique situation.