Projecting, therapy

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but it felt like something worth writing down and putting out there, so here goes.

I've been with my dBPDh almost five years. We are both in therapy, both of us for a second time after breaks of different lengths. I see a psychologist, my husband goes to psychoanalysis twice a week.

I've been worried that he can sort of skirt around the issue in analysis, as he really he doing the whole lying on he couch with the analyst not really saying anything during the whole seance (according to my husband, I've never been and I don't really discuss his therapy with him). It feels like there are no one there to correct him on false thinking, projecting etc.

The first weeks, he was explosive and extremely touchy and I had to work hard to get off the roller coaster. The good news for me is that I've succeeded in reaching a level where I disengage quickly and don't engage in much in the dysregulations and the following stone-walling. Sometimes I say what I think, but never with the fear of his reactions that I had before. I also don't need him like I did before, this extreme urge to make him loove me (co-dependent thinking) when he was angry. I just don't participate.

We had a big blow up at the beginning of February, just after moving into our new house which we have been building for the last year and a half. I was calm through-out, but it was a blow up in the sense that I calmly stated that the things I need are not present in this relationship. He cried at the end, saying he knew something was wrong with him. He's had similar insights before, but they, as expected, don't last long. I left soon after for a week in my home country. When I got back he was sweet and supportive, and seemed to have turned a corner. I know this happens a lot, but for the first time since the first love-bombing period, we went for almost two weeks without any problems.

Then things started to slip, he gets easily agitated and upset. Finally today he got flipping mad that I asked him to please turn off the water when I was talking (answering a question from him actually). He was doing the dishes and I have a throat infection and practically no voice so he didn't hear my answer over the water. It went from there to how my therapy mustn't be working, how I manipulate him, that I'm a sick individual, that I used my dad's cancer operation and my grand-mother's death to gain sympathy for myself  etc.

I didn't engage a all, in fact had my back turned throughout because I was busy preparing a cake to take with me a little later in the day. It didn't bother me so much so I didn't leave the room, but I did record it to be able to listen to it later and evaluate.

It seems to me he picked one subject after the other to get a reaction from me, which he didn't. In the end he was just staring at me, which I saw when I turned around to fetch something. I said I don't have anything to add, if this is how you feel, this is how you feel. I then went outside, he followed me and asked if I agreed with what he said, and I said "no, I don't agree with it". We had some people coming over and they arrived just at that moment, so that was that.

Now I'm at my workplace prepping for an exam, I called him but got no answer. Sent him a text-message that I've wasched the sheets on the bed so we must put new sheets on, and that I can do it when I come home (it makes him sneeze horribly, dust allergy). And if he wants to go to bed earlier, he can find the sheets at such and such place (he doesn't know where they are kept). He hasn't answered.

Phee, so, this was long!

I think I just needed to go over it a little.

To get to the point:

1) Projecting going on here, I think. I'm a bit tired of it, actually,

what ways have you managed to diminish it? Other than disengaging?

2) Do you have any experience with psychoanalysis and BPD? I'm worried he's convincing himself that he's working on himself and it being a false image of himself that he works on

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but it felt like something worth writing down and putting out there, so here goes.

I've been with my dBPDh almost five years. We are both in therapy, both of us for a second time after breaks of different lengths. I see a psychologist, my husband goes to psychoanalysis twice a week.

I've been worried that he can sort of skirt around the issue in analysis, as he really he doing the whole lying on he couch with the analyst not really saying anything during the whole seance (according to my husband, I've never been and I don't really discuss his therapy with him). It feels like there are no one there to correct him on false thinking, projecting etc.

The first weeks, he was explosive and extremely touchy and I had to work hard to get off the roller coaster. The good news for me is that I've succeeded in reaching a level where I disengage quickly and don't engage in much in the dysregulations and the following stone-walling. Sometimes I say what I think, but never with the fear of his reactions that I had before. I also don't need him like I did before, this extreme urge to make him loove me (co-dependent thinking) when he was angry. I just don't participate.

We had a big blow up at the beginning of February, just after moving into our new house which we have been building for the last year and a half. I was calm through-out, but it was a blow up in the sense that I calmly stated that the things I need are not present in this relationship. He cried at the end, saying he knew something was wrong with him. He's had similar insights before, but they, as expected, don't last long. I left soon after for a week in my home country. When I got back he was sweet and supportive, and seemed to have turned a corner. I know this happens a lot, but for the first time since the first love-bombing period, we went for almost two weeks without any problems.

Then things started to slip, he gets easily agitated and upset. Finally today he got flipping mad that I asked him to please turn off the water when I was talking (answering a question from him actually). He was doing the dishes and I have a throat infection and practically no voice so he didn't hear my answer over the water. It went from there to how my therapy mustn't be working, how I manipulate him, that I'm a sick individual, that I used my dad's cancer operation and my grand-mother's death to gain sympathy for myself  etc.

I didn't engage a all, in fact had my back turned throughout because I was busy preparing a cake to take with me a little later in the day. It didn't bother me so much so I didn't leave the room, but I did record it to be able to listen to it later and evaluate.

It seems to me he picked one subject after the other to get a reaction from me, which he didn't. In the end he was just staring at me, which I saw when I turned around to fetch something. I said I don't have anything to add, if this is how you feel, this is how you feel. I then went outside, he followed me and asked if I agreed with what he said, and I said "no, I don't agree with it". We had some people coming over and they arrived just at that moment, so that was that.

Now I'm at my workplace prepping for an exam, I called him but got no answer. Sent him a text-message that I've wasched the sheets on the bed so we must put new sheets on, and that I can do it when I come home (it makes him sneeze horribly, dust allergy). And if he wants to go to bed earlier, he can find the sheets at such and such place (he doesn't know where they are kept). He hasn't answered.

Phee, so, this was long!

I think I just needed to go over it a little.

To get to the point:

1) Projecting going on here, I think. I'm a bit tired of it, actually,

what ways have you managed to diminish it? Other than disengaging?

2) Do you have any experience with psychoanalysis and BPD? I'm worried he's convincing himself that he's working on himself and it being a false image of himself that he works on

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Oh, and in the interest of giving the whole picture: There's something I forgot as it happened before I started the recording.

He was raging about how I'm manipulating him to get empathy and that I'm always complaining, stating as example two things from this last week: that I'm yammering on about being sick (I had a fever and throat infection) and needing help with housework as I'm prepping for a big exam coming up in three weeks. I said (calmly) that it seems to me we want different things in a relationship, and that I guess he was right that we shouldn't be together. Then he went on to the other themes stated in the post above.

[sweetheart]

Hi,

In relation to twice weekly psychoanalytic therapy for BPD, in my opinion it would be hard for your h to 'hide,' especially with an experienced therapist.

I spent 10 years in twice weekly psychoanalytic therapy, for both career supervision purposes and IT, it was seriously hard work.

With this type of therapy it is based on the interpretive work that the therapist both hears and feels (transference/counter-transference) within the therapeutic space. My background is in psychodynamic counselling, and with experience and good supervision, it is possible to get a very good sense of the person and their internal dynamic even when not a lot is being said.

In my opinion (not a professional one) if your h can stick at this type of therapy and frequency ( the recommended minimum for any long term piece of therapy, is at least two years ) it demonstrates commitment and at least a possible willingness to look at himself.

In my personal experience no therapy is easy, so for anyone to commit, BPD or not, is a positive step. Staying and doing the work long term is the hard bit, and as my therapist said to me when I first met him, "... .there are no guarantees with this work." It's in the staying and the development of the therapeutic relationship that changes can be made irrespective of the type of therapy.

On projection, I keep this useful link that says it better than I can,

innerbonding.com/show-article/2958/stop-taking-the-bait-of-projection.html

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Thank you sweethart, for the link and your info on psychoanalytic therapy!

It's great to have some insight from someone who has done it! I guess the confusing part for me is that apparently the therapist doesn't talk much or comment much at all 

[sweetheart]

  - it's a slow journey is the analytic process ! I remember some sessions I was the only one talking 

My experience of it is there is little comment, only interpretive feedback from the T that then might trigger a-ha moments emotionally or not. It is slow though.

IMO the longer your h commits the better - how long has he been going. ?

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Apparently there have even been sessions where neither my husband nor the therapist were talking! 

It is so helpful to get some insight into this analytic process! He has not been doing it very long, he's been going twice a week for 6 months with a two two-week breaks. He seems motivated to keep going and sometimes mentions how it is a long process and that people can go for years and years.

[sweetheart]

It sounds as though your h has understanding of the time commitment which is positive. Keep your focus on the fact that he is going, so many pwBPD never access T.

It would be an unusual T that left too many sessions completely silent, although there are all kinds  , again silent sessions are not unusual either in my experience.

The other thing to bear in mind is that if the T doesn't believe the therapy is right for your h, or he is not the right T to carry on the work, he can make other recommendations to your h.

It's early days though, remember long term therapy usually asks you to make a two year commitment. Six months in is baby steps, where you are just getting to know one another. I'm in the UK, but I don't think the criteria for long term T differs too much anywhere.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Update for anyone who's reading:

I just called again, he picked up after two rings with a distant hello.

Me: (casual voice) hey, just to let you know that I'm staying for a least another hour (it's evening where we are)

Him: (soft voice) okay

Me: (casual voice) You saw the message about the bed linen?

Him:  (soft voice) yes

Me: (caring voice) Okay, just to let you know to not bother with my duvet if it makes you sneeze a lot, just do yours

Him: (soft voice) Okay

Me: (soft voice) So, see you in a bit, bye

Him: (soft voice) Yea, see you, bye

I could not have had this conversation before without the help from this website in disengaging and learning about BPD. With this comes a certain detachment which makes it so much easier to reconnect.

Though I DO get frustrated sometimes, I'm no superwoman!

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Sweatheart, you're right  It's good that he's in therapy and it is early days, as you're saying. I guess I must learn to trust it 

[vortex of confusion]

As I was reading your first post, the thought that I had is, "There is no way of knowing whether or not what he is reporting to you about T is even accurate."

My husband is in counseling but is lucky to go once a month. He doesn't share much about his sessions other than general stuff like, "It was a good session."

I don't see many changes in his behaviors. I see some small improvements here and there but it isn't enough improvement to sustain a relationship without me working twice as hard to keep my mouth shut and disengage. It is difficult for me to get a sense of things because when I try to communicate with him honestly, he tends to say stuff like, "I don't think it will ever be enough for you."

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi Vortex of confusion, first of all, love the bird 

You're so right, what he's told me is coloured by his interpretation and feeling of the moment, and also the fact that it's pretty personal so it's only some bits and pieces here and there. I tend to forget that he and I don't have the same understanding of facts and truth.

It sounds frustrating for you, your situation. It's hard when you see effort and not much result, and even harder when there is also seemingly not much effort!

[vortex of confusion]

You're so right, what he's told me is coloured by his interpretation and feeling of the moment, and also the fact that it's pretty personal so it's only some bits and pieces here and there. I tend to forget that he and I don't have the same understanding of facts and truth.

I think that is one of the most difficult things that I have been trying to accept. His reality and my reality are so very different. He and I interpret things so very different. Sometimes I wonder how in the world we have managed to stay together for 17 years. I think a lot of it was me accepting his reality because that is what was easiest. As I reject his reality and start living my own, it is a source of a lot of confusion, especially because for so long we were so unbelievably enmeshed and still are to a degree. I feel like some of this is getting a little easier as I detach from him and what he is or isn't doing. I still have a long way to go.

P.S. I love the symbolism of the pheonix! Rebirth and rising from the ashes.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

As I reject his reality and start living my own, it is a source of a lot of confusion, especially because for so long we were so unbelievably enmeshed and still are to a degree. I feel like some of this is getting a little easier as I detach from him and what he is or isn't doing. I still have a long way to go.

From one phoenix to another,   The road is long and winding, but at least we're not stuck in the round-about or waiting indefinitely for the red light to switch to green.

[an0ught]

To get to the point:

1) Projecting going on here, I think. I'm a bit tired of it, actually, what ways have you managed to diminish it? Other than disengaging?

2) Do you have any experience with psychoanalysis and BPD? I'm worried he's convincing himself that he's working on himself and it being a false image of himself that he works on

the way I see it is that becoming a person that is more compatible with the rest of humanity requires the pwBPD to adopt healthier behavior.

 -  learning healthier behavior

 -  maintaining in an emotional state that lets them execute what has been learned

what matters a lot less is what a pwBPD believes... .

So, yes he is projecting and his self image is distorted. But then he is also thinking things now through on a cognitive level that have been invisible and hidden below the fog of rage. It may be confused thinking but thinking matters less than doing. Thinking is allowed to make mistakes, sharing thinking can prevent mistakes but doing mistakes can cause real problems. Aren't we happy the baby makes first steps? Should we set every baby step on a straight line? Unless the thinking causes real damage - should we care at this point?