Why she wants to come over, be inappropriate to her fiancé ~

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Brief overview:

Almost 5 years with UBPDGF.  Have D3 together.  Broke up in Sept.  Introduced D3 to new replacement in Dec or Jan.  Moved in with him in Jan.  Engaged in Feb.  In March she filed for primary a week after I told her I was seeing someone since Oct and was introducing D3 to her (trying to show the respect I would like in return) - she lost, we kept 50/50.

Communication through that time was extremely short and almost exclusively regarding D3.

Two and a half weeks ago I got rear-ended with D3 in the car.  No one hurt, I saw his car was totaled when I pulled to the side, figured mine would be pretty bad too.  Wanted D3 to go to ER regardless.  Was 2 miles from her office so I called her to inform her what happened and to p/u D3/take her to ER.  :)idn't reach her - tried several times and texted several times.  My car ended up having minimal damage.  As I was leaving, she called back - had been in a closing without her phone and the texts didn't come through before she called - she knew something was up because I never call her.  She is coming to meet us at the ER.  After I hang up, D3 mentions being hungry so I call her back and ask her to pickup snacks since we didn't know how long we would be at the ER.  

She gets there a few minutes after us, brought snacks for D3 and me.  Everything is fine.  She leaves kind of abruptly, not much of a goodbye to D3 or me.  This is about 8pm.  At 10:15 I see I have a missed call from her and a text asking about D3.  I respond that she is showing no signs of being hurt.  She responds asking if we can talk, I call her, and she is conveniently around the corner.

Comes over, said she was at a friends, pretty sure she had 1-2 drinks.  I offer her a beer and we BS for a bit.  She is so happy that I texted her immediately about D and the accident, giving her a chance to go to ER.  I ask what she wants to talk about, she says nothing specific, just doesn't like seeing her "people" in the hospital.  Asks if she can give me a hug, I agree.  Go inside, I sit in chair and she sits on couch making comment about being across the room from me.  Convo is going well.  She is saying things I wanted to hear: work together regarding D3, offered me custody during a couple upcoming trips she has, etc.  Never mentions fiance by name, but brought him up a couple times or said "we."  Some subtle bragging - if my car was damaged, we could work something out for hers, they are getting a new full size SUV because they need the room for the kids (replacement has teenage daughter) and they were going to keep her car for replacement's daughter in a few years.  Asked me why I got a space heater, said to save some money on bills, she asked if I was having trouble paying bills - said no, doing fine.  Asked me if I lost weight from depression - said no, doing really well with everything, talked about all the stuff I do now that I didn't like doing with her, being social, etc.  Eventually we are both on the couch and she kept inching closer to me, making physical contact, calling me honey or babe, etc.  Kept saying she should go, then a couple minutes later ask for a beer.  I finally asked her why she filed for primary, she insulted my lawyer saying he didn't inform me she had 90 days to file a grievance with the decision (of course I knew this, but also I know she has no reason for a change in custody so not worried even if she does).  :)id her after a few beers play coy thing - "I don't know... . why did I file... . ?"  Eventually she was just looking at me and I swear she wanted me to make a move.  I did not - 1) seeing someone at the time 2) don't want to 3) figured she would reject me if I made a move but wants to leave feeling as though I still want to be with her.  She ultimately leaves after a couple beers at 1:30am.  I let her stay and kind of dictate the boundaries because I wanted to see what would happen and am a little afraid of her wrath.  Next day I text her in the morning that D seems fine.  I had mentioned at the ER and the night prior that my back/neck were stiffening up a bit, but nothing major.  She responds "thank you" - can't ask how I am?  I go back to NC for a few days.

One thing that stood out was she wanted to get along because she felt D3 was uncomfortable with us being together at the ER.  I agree, and want us to get along when D is present, will only make things easier.  Couple days later we are discussing Easter schedule, I offer her to stay for a coffee on Easter when she drops D off.  She agrees, stuck around a bit longer, came to the park with us, egg hunt, etc.  About 2 hours total. Things went well.

Communication is pretty good after this - keeping each other informed about D3 and schedules.  But I notice that when I text her updates about D at times she would normally be home, the answers are one word responses - during work hours, they are much more.  Wondering if she is telling the fiance I am texting her again to triangulate.  One thing she informs me of is that D is coughing a lot at night, so much so that she is often sleeping in the room/bed with her.  I wonder if she angry at the fiance and using this as an excuse to not sleep in bed.  BUT, when I pick D up after days with her, she is much more broken out, so she must be allergic to something at her place.

On Wed, she texted at 9:30pm asking how D3 was (been having some allergy issues, much more severe at her place than mine).  We text back and forth a bit, I can tell she is drinking by her text demeanor.  Calling me "galoot", texting a pic, etc.  Finally out of curiosity, I tell her I am just sitting around having a beer if she wants to stop by on way home.  She comes over about 10:30.  Immediately wanted a hug, and sits down on couch close enough that our hands touch on the back of the couch.  I let it linger - again letting her dictate the way things go out of curiosity (also I have since split with my new gf and am unattached - she does not know this).  She mentions replacement by name once.  Mentions how busy she is at work and planning the wedding with no support.  I asked that her fiance isn't helping, she said "only financially" to which I stifled a snort (unattractive, pushover, but financially well off) she heard it and looked at me, not upset, but almost like she knew what I was thinking and kind of agreed with it.  Continue to BS, talk about D3.  She asks some odd questions - when I check my phone, am I checking in the gf?  :)o I ever all the new gf by ex's name by mistake?  Am I happy?  Mentions how hard it is on her to only see D half the time, cries a little.  Early in the night, I mocked her a bit, she got harsh saying "we aren't there yet" but eases up as the night goes on.  Again, saying she should go then asking for another beer.  Finally around 12:30 she says she should not drive and asks to sleep over.  I tell her that's fine - I don't need my D's mother getting a DUI or worse.  BUT, she never says this and I have seen her much much more drunk.  She gets her phone out of her car to text her fiance that she is sleeping somewhere else, not sure what she told him.

We stay up for a bit, then I go to bed.  My first alarm goes off at 6:30, I turn it off, roll over.  I hear her downstairs get up and leave.

She texts an hour later saying "thank you."  I tell her how D is that morning, glad she stayed instead of driving, and that she left her jacket there.  Since then been a little l contact just a few things about D and her allergist appointment next week.  I know one thing that bugged her about me (and I guess I was twisting the knife here) was that she felt I was unmotivated.  I had the same position almost our whole relationship.  Well I just got it when we got together.  After awhile, I decided I wanted to stay in it because I was so stressed with home life, I needed easy job to go to and relax.  Got promotion in Jan.  Told her on Th that I had my mid-year review, got a raise, got a plan to get a promotion within year, etc.  Just happy that I did well and how working with adults has been a positive influence on me.  No response to that.  An hour later I decided to throw a little jab out with "thanks, I am proud of my recent accomplishments... . "

Ok so I know that last part and even letting her come over is not great on my part.

But trying to figure out why she wants to come over, be inappropriate to her fiance (I assume she doesn't tell him, and she always preaches being open and honest).

Triangulation, feeling me out to see if I am still on the hook, wanting to recycle... . 

[Cleveland]

Brief overview:

Almost 5 years with UBPDGF.  Have D3 together.  Broke up in Sept.  Introduced D3 to new replacement in Dec or Jan.  Moved in with him in Jan.  Engaged in Feb.  In March she filed for primary a week after I told her I was seeing someone since Oct and was introducing D3 to her (trying to show the respect I would like in return) - she lost, we kept 50/50.

Communication through that time was extremely short and almost exclusively regarding D3.

Two and a half weeks ago I got rear-ended with D3 in the car.  No one hurt, I saw his car was totaled when I pulled to the side, figured mine would be pretty bad too.  Wanted D3 to go to ER regardless.  Was 2 miles from her office so I called her to inform her what happened and to p/u D3/take her to ER.  :)idn't reach her - tried several times and texted several times.  My car ended up having minimal damage.  As I was leaving, she called back - had been in a closing without her phone and the texts didn't come through before she called - she knew something was up because I never call her.  She is coming to meet us at the ER.  After I hang up, D3 mentions being hungry so I call her back and ask her to pickup snacks since we didn't know how long we would be at the ER.  

She gets there a few minutes after us, brought snacks for D3 and me.  Everything is fine.  She leaves kind of abruptly, not much of a goodbye to D3 or me.  This is about 8pm.  At 10:15 I see I have a missed call from her and a text asking about D3.  I respond that she is showing no signs of being hurt.  She responds asking if we can talk, I call her, and she is conveniently around the corner.

Comes over, said she was at a friends, pretty sure she had 1-2 drinks.  I offer her a beer and we BS for a bit.  She is so happy that I texted her immediately about D and the accident, giving her a chance to go to ER.  I ask what she wants to talk about, she says nothing specific, just doesn't like seeing her "people" in the hospital.  Asks if she can give me a hug, I agree.  Go inside, I sit in chair and she sits on couch making comment about being across the room from me.  Convo is going well.  She is saying things I wanted to hear: work together regarding D3, offered me custody during a couple upcoming trips she has, etc.  Never mentions fiance by name, but brought him up a couple times or said "we."  Some subtle bragging - if my car was damaged, we could work something out for hers, they are getting a new full size SUV because they need the room for the kids (replacement has teenage daughter) and they were going to keep her car for replacement's daughter in a few years.  Asked me why I got a space heater, said to save some money on bills, she asked if I was having trouble paying bills - said no, doing fine.  Asked me if I lost weight from depression - said no, doing really well with everything, talked about all the stuff I do now that I didn't like doing with her, being social, etc.  Eventually we are both on the couch and she kept inching closer to me, making physical contact, calling me honey or babe, etc.  Kept saying she should go, then a couple minutes later ask for a beer.  I finally asked her why she filed for primary, she insulted my lawyer saying he didn't inform me she had 90 days to file a grievance with the decision (of course I knew this, but also I know she has no reason for a change in custody so not worried even if she does).  :)id her after a few beers play coy thing - "I don't know... . why did I file... . ?"  Eventually she was just looking at me and I swear she wanted me to make a move.  I did not - 1) seeing someone at the time 2) don't want to 3) figured she would reject me if I made a move but wants to leave feeling as though I still want to be with her.  She ultimately leaves after a couple beers at 1:30am.  I let her stay and kind of dictate the boundaries because I wanted to see what would happen and am a little afraid of her wrath.  Next day I text her in the morning that D seems fine.  I had mentioned at the ER and the night prior that my back/neck were stiffening up a bit, but nothing major.  She responds "thank you" - can't ask how I am?  I go back to NC for a few days.

One thing that stood out was she wanted to get along because she felt D3 was uncomfortable with us being together at the ER.  I agree, and want us to get along when D is present, will only make things easier.  Couple days later we are discussing Easter schedule, I offer her to stay for a coffee on Easter when she drops D off.  She agrees, stuck around a bit longer, came to the park with us, egg hunt, etc.  About 2 hours total. Things went well.

Communication is pretty good after this - keeping each other informed about D3 and schedules.  But I notice that when I text her updates about D at times she would normally be home, the answers are one word responses - during work hours, they are much more.  Wondering if she is telling the fiance I am texting her again to triangulate.  One thing she informs me of is that D is coughing a lot at night, so much so that she is often sleeping in the room/bed with her.  I wonder if she angry at the fiance and using this as an excuse to not sleep in bed.  BUT, when I pick D up after days with her, she is much more broken out, so she must be allergic to something at her place.

On Wed, she texted at 9:30pm asking how D3 was (been having some allergy issues, much more severe at her place than mine).  We text back and forth a bit, I can tell she is drinking by her text demeanor.  Calling me "galoot", texting a pic, etc.  Finally out of curiosity, I tell her I am just sitting around having a beer if she wants to stop by on way home.  She comes over about 10:30.  Immediately wanted a hug, and sits down on couch close enough that our hands touch on the back of the couch.  I let it linger - again letting her dictate the way things go out of curiosity (also I have since split with my new gf and am unattached - she does not know this).  She mentions replacement by name once.  Mentions how busy she is at work and planning the wedding with no support.  I asked that her fiance isn't helping, she said "only financially" to which I stifled a snort (unattractive, pushover, but financially well off) she heard it and looked at me, not upset, but almost like she knew what I was thinking and kind of agreed with it.  Continue to BS, talk about D3.  She asks some odd questions - when I check my phone, am I checking in the gf?  :)o I ever all the new gf by ex's name by mistake?  Am I happy?  Mentions how hard it is on her to only see D half the time, cries a little.  Early in the night, I mocked her a bit, she got harsh saying "we aren't there yet" but eases up as the night goes on.  Again, saying she should go then asking for another beer.  Finally around 12:30 she says she should not drive and asks to sleep over.  I tell her that's fine - I don't need my D's mother getting a DUI or worse.  BUT, she never says this and I have seen her much much more drunk.  She gets her phone out of her car to text her fiance that she is sleeping somewhere else, not sure what she told him.

We stay up for a bit, then I go to bed.  My first alarm goes off at 6:30, I turn it off, roll over.  I hear her downstairs get up and leave.

She texts an hour later saying "thank you."  I tell her how D is that morning, glad she stayed instead of driving, and that she left her jacket there.  Since then been a little l contact just a few things about D and her allergist appointment next week.  I know one thing that bugged her about me (and I guess I was twisting the knife here) was that she felt I was unmotivated.  I had the same position almost our whole relationship.  Well I just got it when we got together.  After awhile, I decided I wanted to stay in it because I was so stressed with home life, I needed easy job to go to and relax.  Got promotion in Jan.  Told her on Th that I had my mid-year review, got a raise, got a plan to get a promotion within year, etc.  Just happy that I did well and how working with adults has been a positive influence on me.  No response to that.  An hour later I decided to throw a little jab out with "thanks, I am proud of my recent accomplishments... . "

Ok so I know that last part and even letting her come over is not great on my part.

But trying to figure out why she wants to come over, be inappropriate to her fiance (I assume she doesn't tell him, and she always preaches being open and honest).

Triangulation, feeling me out to see if I am still on the hook, wanting to recycle... . 

[mitatsu]

Triangulation, feeling me out to see if I am still on the hook, wanting to recycle... .

Take your pick... . it's a awful game they play sometimes but we need to understand they know not what they do it's life to them

Stay strong follow your gut instinct 

[Cleveland]

the problem I am having is that if she is unhappy with the new guy, I don't want her to go through with the wedding (in Sept) and put D through a divorce in a couple years or less.

[mitatsu]

the problem I am having is that if she is unhappy with the new guy, I don't want her to go through with the wedding (in Sept) and put D through a divorce in a couple years or less.

Alas you have no control over that my friend if she is Bpd or lots of traits the best you can do is be there for your D and try and keep her grounded as we know that mom will have a rocky life

my step-daughter adores me i've known her since she was 3 (shes nearly 7) and her moms actions have split us and the bond we had her real dad is a loser so it's not looking great but i cannot get involved as it will still happen but i too will become a casualty again  :'(

[Skip]

Triangulation, feeling me out to see if I am still on the hook, wanting to recycle... .

This is not triangulation. 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0

Why is did she do this? May have just been for validation. Maybe she is having a tiff with the boyfriend or trying to make him appreciate her more. Maybe she wants more influence with you for something (being more flexible on the co-parenting schedule).

I'd want to read more into it, myself.  Often there isn't much too it and the landscape changes the next day.

I think you have to see what happens next to get a sense of this.

[Cleveland]

she had an open house in my neighborhood yesterday and stopped by after to get the jacket she left behind.

Stuck around for a few minutes.  Told me D wouldn't say goodnight to my replacement the night before.  She talked to her and said D said that she didn't want mommy and daddy to be with anyone else.  And she told her that we would both love her no matter what and that her fiance and my (now ex) gf love her too.  I told D says a lot of things that I know don't happen, so I can't put too much stock in things she says. 

After she left I texted her to tell her that I never told D that I was with the other woman, that we kept that from the kids, getting together was always playdates.  And then I told her that I we are no longer seeing each other.  No response.

We'll see if that changes her behavior at all.

I am starting to wonder if she is getting bored with the replacement, she is very far behind in wedding planning for Sept (including their website, she usually does something like that right away to completion).  Then some of the topics: how hard it is for her not seeing D everyday, fiance is only helping financially, D doesn't want us to be with other people, and just her general flirtiness - not to mention for someone to preaches about openness and honesty, I can't imagine she told her fiance she was at/slept at my house this week.  He is only 15 minutes away, I would have driven there to pick her up OR told her to never come back.

[Cleveland]

Yesterday I found out from her sister-in-law (who is not a fan of hers) that her fiance's job is leaving the area - and between D3 and his daughter, they can't follow the job that far.

She said he has been interviewing.  My own research shows that the company announced this late last year and that layoffs have begun this month and scheduled to take up to a year to get through everyone.

Ex has a tendency of embellishing, especially money and material things.  Told me they were getting a brand new Yukon soon (that's a $50K+ car) and that they were planning on moving (he just bought his house in May) - and telling family members some of the houses they have looked at have pools and/or tennis courts. 

Also she told the SIL early on that she really liked that this guy can provide her the lifestyle she wants.  Which makes sense since he is unattractive and not her type at all.

So I suspect now that her recent behavior towards me might be because they are feeling some pressure financially with impending job loss / he may be struggling to find something in his (read: her) salary range.  To the point where she might be looking at me as a backup plan.  Calling off the engagement and jumping to another guy's arms would look bad.  But she could say with me it was because of history and D3.  Not that I would take her back, but I think she might be checking things out. 

[livednlearned]

Hi Cleveland,

I'm glad you and your D are ok, and that you and your ex were able to get on the same page in the ER and to not resort to conflict when you were together.

The boundaries seem fuzzy -- actions and words appear to be out of sync here.

the problem I am having is that if she is unhappy with the new guy, I don't want her to go through with the wedding (in Sept) and put D through a divorce in a couple years or less.

Not that I would take her back, but I think she might be checking things out.

You have a lot of interest in what your ex does, thinks, her intentions, reactions, how you present yourself (accomplishments) to her, not strictly in terms of D3.

What do you think the fuzzy boundaries are about?

[ForeverDad]

I would be inclined to say you can't straddle the fence (half in, half out, or at least the impression) with a pwBPD.  The relationship went south once before, it's likely to happen once again at some point.  Though you have to spit parenting, otherwise it is usually best to live separate lives.

Then again, I get the sense you haven't had an obstructive, high conflict past with her and so maybe some 'fuzziness' in boundaries might not be as disastrous as it would be for me.  But it sure can make your life much more complicated later on.  Maybe you can handle adjustments to boundaries based on the situations, but can she?

I'm thinking, for example, she shouldn't have drunk so much that evening that she had an excuse to sleep over.  So in that respect I think you enabled her to weaken boundaries.  Ponder well how much you want her to get involved again in your life, or you in hers, before you go further down that road.  For most here boundaries are lifesavers and we pay a price when they're weakened or ignored.  I do have a concern that next time(s) she'll be more likely to stay over and before long - with you a man and she a woman - you're at risk of creating another child with her.  Just saying.

[Cleveland]

Couple of things on the whole situation.

I don't WANT to get back together with her, but I know I am feeling a little lonely lately and I know she has gotten me to do things I wasn't keen on in the past.  Also, there is a small part of me that thinks I will always be open to the idea, strictly because it would allow me to see D everyday.

But then I think - it's never going to last so it will only makes things harder for D in the long run.  At least as it stands right now, D won't remember us ever being together because she is too young.

I guess I care because a) D's involvement in the situation, and her situation with the fiance - I don't want her exposed to an unhappy relationship (although this is completely out of my control) or losing a bond that she is forming with the new guy.  And b) based on what I said above, I just like to know what is going on so I can be prepared in case she comes calling on me again.  Knowing what I do about her current situation, I feel, gives me a certain strength when she does come over - knowing they may be struggling with certain aspects so I am would not be completely surprised if she came asking to give it another shot.  Whereas if I didn't know and she showed up, I might be inclined to believe that everything was fine, but she just realized she wanted to be with me instead (ego stroking) and be more susceptible to her.

[Turkish]

Whatever your daughter's r/s with the other man isn't your responsibility, he staying or leaving. Validate her feelings, whatever they may be, but resist the urge to "fix" anything (emotionally).

My Ex introduced the kids to her affair partner right after she moved out. It caused problems. Many months later, they started mentioning him:

"OM is funny!" S5 would say. Or D3 (she just had her birthday) recently started saying,."OM said no diaper!" after I said the same thing.

In both cases, I said something like, "oh, that's good," and "he's right," trying not to let sarcasm drip from my lips. If they like him, they like him. If they end up not liking him, then it is what it is. I'll validate either way, but what happens in the other home is their business.

[Cleveland]

I'm not really concerned with her current relationship with the guy - although I am happy that it seems as though she likes him.

What concerns me is her mother's behavior.  I don't want her to think she can come back to me if she ends it with this guy.  On the flip side, I would prefer she didn't go through with the marriage - not from a selfish perspective, but that she is pulling this BS with me, and just general BPD knowledge, I don't suspect it will last.  I would rather she pull the plug beforehand than get married and try to make it work for a few miserable years so that D is old enough to remember.

[ForeverDad]

Frankly, you can't protect your daughter from all the various bumps and bruises of life around a pwBPD (or whatever disorderedness).  I've concluded that court has that perspective too, though they won't come right out and say it.  They will ignore the smaller issues, minor patterns, even a multitude of smaller issues and view as 'actionable' only the more serious matters.

So though you want to limit the chaos, confusion, disappointments and whatnot, focus on the overall situation, Validate your daughter when she reaches valid conclusions from what she experiences, Over time Teach her the Skills, Resilience, Perspective and Insight she needs to navigate the stormy waters ahead.

As my son's GAL assured me when I became legal Guardian in 2011, some 3 years after the divorce, "Because of you your son will be okay."  I think that applies to all us members here who are parents.

Is she old enough to have periodic or even regular sessions with a perceptive and experienced counselor?  (Beware of getting a counselor that can be easily fooled, conned or manipulated.)  Though they may not be as direct when dealing with a parent's poor behaviors, their counsel can complement and even focus your own guidance.  And they're there for the children, not the parents, that's good for the kids.