Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 03:14:14 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What to do now she is back  (Read 641 times)
Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« on: April 18, 2015, 10:37:12 AM »

So I went through the complete BPD cycle with my best friend. After the dysregulation fase which lasted 8 months, she is now 'back'. The first 5 months I tried reaching out to her while she was holding me captive in a silent treatment, that was not a good move. I know how to handle it now. Then after 5 months a letter came, blaming me, projecting things on me. I didn't respond, now 3 months later she is contacting me again.

I've been reading so much about BPD, now I stumbled on this: https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm. From BPD Family. This is a very accurate discription of my relationship with her. Problem or not? I want her back. She is not in therapy and in denial. How to work on our relationship? Am I stupid to go for it again? The neediness, does it mean, it doesn't matter who gives her what she wants as long as she gets it?

What I think I can do is: 1) radical acceptance 2) state my boundaries in a loving way 3) stick to them 4) don't be dependant on her 5) don't go into discussions 6) have my own life beside her. 7) finding a way she will seek for help, but only if she wants it herself, maybe we can go together? But we're friends not partners. 8) also I want to make an agreement on communication.

Another important question. I already sense she doesn't want to reflect on her previous behavior. But I read all the time I shouldn't let that happen. What to do then?


Oh and I found somewhere else a source on the internet (another depressing one), that when you let them come back, they will not mature and stay emtionally this way, so you're enabling. ... . ? We should all let them fall? (I know her parents won't and she'll always seeks immediately for replacement, like she did with me)
Logged
PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

lbjnltx
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: widowed
Posts: 7757


we can all evolve into someone beautiful


« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2015, 02:17:24 PM »

What I think I can do is: 1) radical acceptance 2) state my boundaries in a loving way 3) stick to them 4) don't be dependant on her 5) don't go into discussions 6) have my own life beside her. 7) finding a way she will seek for help, but only if she wants it herself, maybe we can go together? But we're friends not partners. 8) also I want to make an agreement on communication.

Another important question. I already sense she doesn't want to reflect on her previous behavior. But I read all the time I shouldn't let that happen. What to do then?

You have a good plan in place Issy.  One other thing you may want to consider is lowering your expectations regarding how much your friend can reciprocate the friendship. 

What has happened in the past will be addressed through your boundaries and if you are able (bless you) to get her to go to therapy with you that would be the perfect place to talk about your concerns for her and the value you place on the friendship.

Be validating and compassionate... .which I sense that you are already... .and try not to personalize her shortcomings.  True friends are hard for all of us to find.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

lbjnltx

Logged

 BPDd-13 Residential Treatment - keep believing in miracles
Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2015, 10:56:06 AM »

Yes you're absolutely right lbjnltx! I forgot to mention that one, lowering my expectations, like not showing up for my birthday party, while I so wanted her to be there, or that she cannot talk easily whats going on when she dissapears. Although the latter is a hard one.

Thanx for the positivity, I absolutely need that scince everyone around me advises to let her go. She means too much to me to do that.
Logged
Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2015, 11:38:31 AM »

I'm still kind of confused about boundaries though.

I know what really hurt me.

1) being ignored for a long time (more than 2 weeks)

2) being replaced

3) being totally painted black

4) not wanting to talk about her behavior towards me that caused me pain

I know these things belong to BPD, I am now much more willing and ready to accept it. But at the same time I hear people say people haven't got self-respect if this recycle thing will become a pattern, I don't know if it will, I am not even sure if I am going to be fully accepted as a friend again. But sure want to prevent it.

If she is not in therapy it'll probably happen again right? So if I don't manage to break through to get her to therapy by a certain time I guess it is over. I think this is goin to be the strategy.

But how do I set boundaries? In a firm way or more in an asking way, for example: do you think there can be another way letting me know there is something wrong other then silence and ignoring?
Logged
lbjnltx
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: widowed
Posts: 7757


we can all evolve into someone beautiful


« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2015, 12:40:38 PM »

I'm still kind of confused about boundaries though.

I know what really hurt me.

1) being ignored for a long time (more than 2 weeks)

2) being replaced

3) being totally painted black

4) not wanting to talk about her behavior towards me that caused me pain

I know these things belong to BPD, I am now much more willing and ready to accept it. But

These are hurtful things for most anyone.  Not personalizing them is the key.  No "but" Being cool (click to insert in post)

Remember... .lower expectations.

Ask yourself what it means to be in a friendship... .are there limits?  What are those limits?

at the same time I hear people say people haven't got self-respect if this recycle thing will become a pattern, I don't know if it will, I am not even sure if I am going to be fully accepted as a friend again. But sure want to prevent it.

Don't worry about what other people say, you get to determine what is acceptable, tolerable, meaningful, and appropriate for you.

If she is not in therapy it'll probably happen again right? So if I don't manage to break through to get her to therapy by a certain time I guess it is over. I think this is goin to be the strategy.

Is this an ultimatum?  These backfire consistently.  It is best to state value based boundaries and be prepared to defend them.

But how do I set boundaries? In a firm way or more in an asking way, for example: do you think there can be another way letting me know there is something wrong other then silence and ignoring?

Boundaries are best set gently and firmly.  Boundaries are based on what we value, they are ours to own, set, and defend. 

Asking her if there is another way to let you know there is something wrong is great!  Letting her know that it hurt when she ignored you is ok and telling her why it hurt is even more important.  "It hurt me because I love you and I missed you" rather than "It hurt because I don't like to be ignored"... .that's the truth isn't it?  It hurt because you love her. If you didn't love her it wouldn't hurt for her not to be in touch. 

It's important to learn the distinction between limits and boundaries.  Limits are like rules and expectations... .boundaries are our values in action.

Here is some info that can help you figure out what your boundaries are:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Logged

 BPDd-13 Residential Treatment - keep believing in miracles
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 02:06:57 PM »

I'm still kind of confused about boundaries though.

Don't worry... .we can help you understand boundaries.

Best to read the lesson provided... .and then ask questions.

Start trying to think about what is "mine" and what is "hers".  Expand that to what do I control... .what does she control.

Whatever is truly yours... .is under your control... .if you "give it away" to someone else... .that can go poorly.  Same thing if you try to control something that is not yours.

Looking forward to reading your posts on this issue.

FF
Logged

Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 02:13:37 PM »

Thank you lbjnltx, it's clearer for me now. And thank you for correcting me, no buts! :D

No this ultimtum is for me, not for her, and wasn't planning to tell her.  I don't give people or myself ultimatums, I thought now maybe I should after all the warnings I've been reading about and heard. Ultimatums for BPD are terrible, I know! I actually gave her one and that got everything bad rolling! And the one I gave her didn't even come from my mind! But from a friends mind actually. I was in shock my BPD friend didn't want to talk with me about what's going on, it was really important for me. So I asked a friend of mine for advise and she proposed an ultimatum. Awful, it didn't even really came from me. But I've learned so much now, I know what to expect and how to deal with it much better, because it all got to do with BPD and she and I can't help it, only professional help.

Yes it sounds much better, being ignored hurts me because I love her.  Smiling (click to insert in post)  But I don't understand it fully... . What does it mean?
Logged
lbjnltx
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: widowed
Posts: 7757


we can all evolve into someone beautiful


« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2015, 02:20:37 PM »

Issy... .sometimes when we are hurt we get angry.

It's important to look at the root cause of our anger and think about why we have it.

If you didn't love her would you be angry or hurt that she cut off contact with you?  Probably not... .maybe annoyed initially and that would soon pass.  It is the connection you have with her that was broken that hurt... .the loss of the connection.  The name of that connection is love. 

lbj 
Logged

 BPDd-13 Residential Treatment - keep believing in miracles
Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2015, 03:41:50 PM »

Yes I was really hurt and I feel deeply connected to her, that's true! Smiling (click to insert in post) I definitely love her. That's why the article was so confusing because it says we mistake love for empathy,  I genuinely love her... . She became rather evil at one point and I felt so much anger... . But am I blind? I think not... . I think she was dysregulated and is in essence a good, compassionate person. 

Thanks formflier, ignoring is her then, defriending her on facebook (what I had to do, because I was constantly triggered by her behavior there that hurt me) is me. I think I've got it. If she ignores me again, I validate, ask and if there is still no response, I won't chase and will focuss on other stuff. If she comes back and I have to change behavior for her and will, am I not enabling her then? Hm I still got questions about this, I will check out the lessons about boundaries, before more questions comes popping up.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2015, 03:50:29 PM »

  If she comes back and I have to change behavior for her and will, am I not enabling her then? Hm I still got questions about this, I will check out the lessons about boundaries, before more questions comes popping up.

Issy,

Another great post... .good questions... .you are on right track.

Only thing I saw to address now... .is that if she comes back... .she comes back.

You make decisions about your behavior that you believe are emotionally healthy for you... .

Please limit that amount of behavior change you do "for her".  That is not a hard limit.  Sometimes we go out of the way to help people that we care about... .that's fine. 

If it becomes a pattern... .it may or may not be fine... .we'll just have to look at it.

"Enabling" someone is obviously something to avoid.  If you run into things you may do ... .or have done... .that may be enabling... .bring it up here... .we can talk.  It's not always cut and dried... .

FF
Logged

Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2015, 02:14:21 PM »

Oh god I don 't she is back  :'( (she came back like this, she asked how I was, I responded, she responded and now)

I send her a mail stating I am much better, validating her and then asking if she wants to be friends again also told her it's ok if you're not ready, we could take it slow and I'm here always. She has not responded... . Was this too emotional again for her? Is she in doubt? Am I again getting ignored? Did I say something wrong again? I don't know what to do, 'cause I don't hear a no either.

Knowing her she is hurting her brains with doubting, or she is mad again about me refering to her latest long letter or saying something 'wrong', something that triggered her. Ór she really doesn't like me and thinks screw you, I almost can't believe that.

You know I can forget and move on, if she wants to talk about nothing or just have fun, I'm all up for it.
Logged
Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2015, 02:55:42 PM »

Oh noo! I said it wrong!  :'( :'( I could cry

I read this

www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/women-with-traits-of-BPD-regaining-trust/

And this is it! They are so right!

Is said to her I may have wanted to change you, I didn't realise that, and I know now it is so wrong. How can she trust me when she now thinks I really wanted her to... . I didn't, I wanted to tell her there is help for what you are struggling with and I will support you, and maybe I  wanted her to have therapy for me? I don't know I got scared I would be run over by her, but thats my business of course, I realise now. Oh god how can I ever make this right again!
Logged
Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2015, 04:41:29 PM »

Hm sorry, I can't delete my posts anymore. I think I understand it now, this may have been too much for her to deal with again and again she needs time. If only she could just say that... . But I guess that's part of the problem... . Or maybe she doesn't trust me enough to say that... . So I should build this trust I guess.

Don't expect to much, I should repeat that to myself.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 06:48:40 AM »

  Oh god how can I ever make this right again!

Language really matters... .instead of talking about what she "thinks"... .which suggests logic and reason... .think about her feelings... .

The battleground is how she feels about things... .specifically... .you!

You don't have to agree with her feelings... .but it would be really helpful if you could validate her feelings. 

Do you understand the difference in validation and agreement?

Big... .big... .big concept.  If you can only focus on one thing... .focus on avoiding "disagreeing" with her feelings... .or INVALIDATING her.  1 invalidation can crush... .wipe away... .lots of successful validations.

FF
Logged

formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2015, 07:06:46 AM »

Hm sorry, I can't delete my posts anymore.

Don't worry about "posting the right thing"... .this is a safe place.  Let us know what you are feeling... .thinking... .we can help guide you. 

So I should build this trust I guess.

Yes... .BUT!  There is always a "but".  You should do activities that a pwBPD find trustworthy.  However... .don't let her trust be your measuring stick.  Once you learn the tools here... .and are convinced you are doing them correctly... .let that be it.  Make emotionally healthy decisions and take emotionally healthy actions... .and be happy about that.

Even doing "everything right"... .her feelings will still move around a lot.  Many times it will be for things that you had no part off.  Just something she thought about.

If you use her to measure... .YOU ARE HANDING HER THE POWER... .over how you feel about your actions. 

Does that make sense?

FF

Don't expect to much, I should repeat that to myself.

Underpromise and over deliver is a great strategy
Logged

shatterd
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 135



« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2015, 07:08:38 AM »

i share ur pain issy   ive tryd this process a few times with my ex  idk if it can be diffrent   the lowering of the standards is tuff   i did it and it completely enabled her free ride  child stage of this   there was no morals left in the house  no responsability  no accountability  ur sittuation maybe diffrent   i got the point were i was workng 70 hrs aweek and doing evrything alone she wood do nothing but sleep all day wach tv and run around constantly   if anyone said a word about it  well instant eruption    i realy think they try yo find the person to cling too  that will put up with it  then they get bord and find a new one
Logged
Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2015, 05:38:25 AM »

She replied finally and wants to be friends again Smiling (click to insert in post) Smiling (click to insert in post)

I had almost sent her a second message thinking I said it wrong, it had upset her, maybe it did but I just have to give her room for these emotions. I remembered Stop Making It Worse, and it's true first stop making it worse Smiling (click to insert in post), she came 'back' on her own now. Last time I sent more messages I had pushed her away (or pushed her buttons more). And indeed formflier there could be so much more than me that upset her, I should't worry to much if I said or did it right (actually that is something I always do with anyone). Now she can really see I mean it when I say I give you space. She wants to work on it aswell so I'm happy I managed that (I think I somewhat did).

So sorry to hear that Shatterd. There is so much you go through with a loved one who has BPD, it requires so much from you. I realise now I have to be the adult here. I'm only lowering my expectations and improving my communication skills. If she will start walking over me, I will not let that happen. I accept and understand that the episodes she can have has nothing to do with me but her past, I may be a trigger and I must be aware of that, but when she will have another episode I will not go after her and will remove myself from the scene, because I don't want to go through it, when she is done I'm still here. I will always tell her what hurts me then it's up to her how she will deal with that. Beside all this I have a life aswell, luckily I'm not married to her. (the worse thing was of all this is that she let me linger in the unknown)

Thank you all so much for your help, and especially the support!
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2015, 06:02:58 AM »

 

Issy,

Congrats on not sending her more messages... .Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Be prepared at some point for her to set out some "bait" for some sort of argument or discussion... .think through your response... .ahead of time.

FF

Logged

Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2015, 03:25:24 AM »

She is gone again, hasn't responded anymore . I really don't know what to do anymore, I guess nothing. Maybe I shouldn't have responded so seriously, or that she now knows I 'know' so to speak. Maybe I should have acted like I have forgotten and just be fun and casual and talk about other stuff, like music or something. Maybe she feels she can't hide anymore... .Is that it? Oh well I never could have come up with that before so I don't blame myself, I did the right thing. But she gave me hope again. Is there still hope?   Who knows... .

Or she really is afraid of commitment, the fear of leaving her one day? Those are the issues of BPD right?
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2015, 09:40:15 AM »

Or she really is afraid of commitment, the fear of leaving her one day? Those are the issues of BPD right?

Yes... .many of them get it in their head that we "nons" will leave them... .so they leave first.

Or... .it can appear that way but be part of "push/pull"

FF
Logged

Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2015, 04:14:52 AM »

Ah we worked it out already. She's not gone. Sorry for the fuss. I don't understand why I go into panic mode when she is not responsive, she of course gives me hope and then leaves again... .
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2015, 06:03:55 AM »

Ah we worked it out already. She's not gone. Sorry for the fuss. I don't understand why I go into panic mode when she is not responsive, she of course gives me hope and then leaves again... .

Very likely she will be back again... .

My hope for you is that you have emotionally healthy responses ready... .

FF
Logged

Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2015, 07:07:01 AM »

Hi everyone here who helped me,

I want to give an update. We met and it was bad. She still had negative thoughts and feelings about me, my body started to shake and she didn't appreciate that, she said she got nothing in return for expressing her thoughts. Well they were hurtful. They were all based on the fear of rejection though. I had to tell her the image she had of me wasn't the whole me. She felt she got nothing in return for expressing her thoughts. It was a terrible experience, she felt the negativity came from me and now wants nothing to do with me ever again I think.

How the hell could I have made it a positive experience when she still had all this negativity about me?
Logged
Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2015, 07:09:30 AM »

Please help! I am already sick for two days about this, I can't eat!
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2015, 08:29:55 AM »

Please help! I am already sick for two days about this, I can't eat!

 

Whatever you can do to eat some bland food... .go for walks... .do "normal" things... .even though you don't want to... .will be good for you at this point.

There may be another meeting in the future... .consider a boundary that you won't listen to negativity about you.

I'm not sure what that negativity is... .but it obviously had a big impact on you.

Think boundaries.

You don't control anyone elses opinion of you.  They don't control if you listen to it or not.

Hang in there... .eat simple things... .go for walks... .breath deep!

FF
Logged

Issy
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 90


« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2015, 08:52:41 AM »

Thank you Smiling (click to insert in post) It started that I said and think that you should be able to express yourself in a relationship, so she did. But of course it doesn't mean that I will react positively on it. But I should at the same time have a boundary for it... .
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!