my intro thread

[tortuga]

I am in my late 40's.

I have been married to my SO for over 20 years.

We have two children (son and daughter).

My wife very likely has BPD; and in that same vein, likely her mother, grandmother, and sister, and also our niece. (all not officially diagnosed). 

Our daughter attempted suicide during her first year away at school. She received a DX of Major Depressive Disorder, and BPD. We convinced her to attend an RTC.

Our son seems fine, and is very independent, and doing well in college. He has shown patterns of codependency in his relationships, but I think he has generally navigated them with success, so far (in my estimation).

I have been in-treatment for codependency for the past 7 years. I receive monthly therapy sessions.

As far as my wife goes; I have suspected BPD for years. 

Our son went through a "troubled phase", but he seemed to come out of it in his last year of HS.

When our daughter went through her "troubled phase" - we always assumed she would come out of it.  But actually, it was far worse than we knew.  She hid a lot of it. And we were definitely in denial. 

When our daughter was diagnosed with BPD, I showed a description of BPD to my high-functioning wife, who observed (all on her own, no prompting), that indeed, her grandmother had this. And her mother.  And her sister. And her sister's daughter. (I agree, completely). I pointed out all of the markers that she had. She agreed that those markers were there. But she brushed aside any notion that BPD applies to her (as she always has done).

The reason I showed her the description, was because my wife reacted to our daughter's problem with accusations that she's just lazy, an addict, spoiled, and "acting like a 2 year old". This was all just a temper tantrum.  I was trying to convince her that our daughter was genuinely ill, and that it was not possible to "bully" her into health.

I was not trying to "confront" her with her own issues, or anything like that. After 20 years, I know better than that. (not that I want to enable her, I just know how pointless this exercise is).

I'm not sure exactly how much of my story I'm going to post here.  I don't want identifying details to get out. I just want to say that I've found a lot of good, supportive (and validating) postings here, and I want to thank all the rest of you for being so forthcoming.

Before my daughter's DX, I was mostly just fumbling around in the dark with all this. Mostly very hurt and confused.  The therapy I received was very validating, and very helpful in managing the relationship dynamic with my wife. I learned a lot about communication, and taking care of myself.  I highly recommend it (therapy) for anyone going through the hell that is having a romantic partner with BPD. I think that the skills that I learned were CRUCIAL, in how I handled my relationship with my daughter.  While - I had been in denial for years that my daughter had problems, I think that some good skills did rub off onto her, and I think that that's the only thing that allowed her enough of a glimmer of lucidity, during her hospitalization, to realize that she needed help.

[momtara]

Welcome, Turtle! Guess you wish you'd known about BPD earlier. Many of us did. Glad to hear your story. Sorry about your daughter, but I'm glad she gave you a wakeup call in some sense.

This section is for 'coparenting after the split.' Have you split from your wife? There is also a section for parenting children with BPD in general, without having split.

[Turkish]

Welcome, Turtle! Guess you wish you'd known about BPD earlier. Many of us did. Glad to hear your story. Sorry about your daughter, but I'm glad she gave you a wakeup call in some sense.

This section is for 'coparenting after the split.' Have you split from your wife? There is also a section for parenting children with BPD in general, without having split.

We should actually rename that... . there are a few spouses who drop in here who are still in their relationships, even if most of the material is geared more towards split parents.

tortuga- momtara's suggestion to check out the Parenting Board may be a good idea to help with your daughter; that is, the relationship between you and her. There are, however,  resources here (check out the right side bar---> which may also help you co-parent, even though you are not apart.

It's great that your therapy for co-dependency has helped you in your relationship with your wife. You might also want to check out the lessons on the Staying Board (see here) which can help as well.

Turkish

[tortuga]

Thank you.

I guess I knew about BPD before.  But I was a lot more invested, at that time, into buying-into my wife's view of things. (a.k.a. "everthing is Tortuga's fault". So there were doubts. Doubts born of craziness.  Years of individual T, and I'm a bit better. :D

The other reason is that my T is very reluctant to use DX labels, because it puts a bad spin on treatment options, insurance, etc.  She's been very helpful to me in other regards.  (I wrote a lengthy response on this topic in a different area).

I am still going through many of the resources here.  I very much appreciate them.

As for whether I'm staying or going. . . .

I actually decided years ago, that I would leave when my kids turned 18 and were out on their own. Believe me, I've been back and forth on this issue in my head, many times. I keep finding myself thinking that since things have gotten a little better, that she will change.  Then she does something that reminds me that she will never change.  

My daughter's situation has thrown a bit of a kink into that plan.  I justified my deceit, in that my wife used the weapon of deceit against me, without remorse, therefore, for my own survival, and for my kids' well-being, I could not choose to unilaterally disarm. I feel terrible about that, but I feel it's what I had to do.  (she tends to make poor choices in partners, and I did not want to subject my kids to a stepdad like that).

So I do plan on leaving.  Within the next year. It will be complicated to undo all of our financial complications. And I do love her. I love her a lot.  I am just emotionally exhausted, and it's been affecting my health for a long time, and I just want to be alone and be able to live somewhat of a normal life at some point. I want to know what that's like.

[momtara]

I think you deserve that. I understand the confusion. I sometimes feel love for my exH even though I shouldn't. Sometimes we see just how good a person they could be if not for the disease. It is frustrating.

[Turkish]

I think you deserve that. I understand the confusion. I sometimes feel love for my exH even though I shouldn't. Sometimes we see just how good a person they could be if not for the disease. It is frustrating.

Sometimes the hardest thing we do is validating our own feelings, being so focused her on validating the BPD or our kids. My Ex picked up the kids from church on Sunday. She chose to stay for the bbq. It felt like what it should be, but it wasn't. I kind of missed the normality, but I can never forget the person she was often behind closed doors. It's a very tough decision to make.

[livednlearned]

Hi Tortuga,

I wanted to join the others in saying hello and welcoming you to the site. I have a son who is 13, and believe he is genetically predisposed to BPD. He was diagnosed ADHD, ODD, and now depression/anxiety. I have seen some amazing things happen to turn this ship around by using validation skills and boundaries. Do you know the book "I Don't Have to Make It All Better?" It took my validation skills to a whole new level, and after six months I'm starting to see some changes in my son that I never thought possible. Solving his own problems!

The Parenting board that Turkish mentioned is wonderful, and this board is helpful whether you are married or not, since coparenting goes on no matter what your status. Wherever you feel comfortable posting, we're happy you're here.

I like what Turkish said about how hard it is to validate our own feelings. Jon Kabat-Zinn, the guy who started the mindfulness-based stress reduction movement, says that mindfulness is making friends with your mind. Paying attention, not judging, being kind, listening. With a BPD wife and potential divorce on the way, plus a BPD daughter, mindfulness might go a long way for you. I wish I had practiced mindfulness during my divorce. I look back now and see how reactive I was. I didn't have the skills to help me stay in "wise mind" and the stress really did a number on my health.

How is your daughter doing now? Does she accept her diagnosis? Did she do DBT while in treatment?

[lbjnltx]

Hi Tortuga,

I just wanted to come over from Parenting and say hi and we are glad to have you here.

Anytime you would like to visit the Parenting Board we will be glad to have you.

lbjnltx

[tortuga]

Thank you for the welcoming. I am scanning posts in all of the boards, including Parenting.

My daughter is currently IN treatment. (Not doing well, I hear. But I'm being told it's "normal" at this stage.)

When I was a teenager, I spent several years studying martial arts. The teacher was raised in a Buddhist monastery, in Korea. Sometimes we students would just sit, and he would lecture us, the entire lesson. He would talk about philosophy, and teach us breathing, relaxation, and meditation. Rules about respecting parents, elders, ancestors, and ourselves. (I thought it was ironic that he was teaching us peace, love and respect for all living things, and then showing us how to kill with our bare hands - but I digress). I put it into infrequent practice. I think it does help. I guess that mindfulness is supposed to come from Zen.  I didn't pass any of that down to my kids, because they simply were never very interested in any of that stuff. My son maybe did recently.

DBT does sound interesting to me, and I would like to explore it, but my T doesn't include that in her practice.

[tortuga]

I just wanted to add a bit of background (and correct some other posts I may have made).

I have mentioned a book that I found to be very helpful; by John Bradshaw.  (for dealing with codependency).  I may have said that the name of this book was "Codependent No More" - but I meant to say that it was his OTHER book, that I found very helpful: "Home Coming". 

This book helps the reader to explore past hurts, and includes some helpful techniques to access old memories and childhood feelings, stuff that can be very deeply buried, and can help to make you more aware of things you may have either forgotten, or otherwise lost.  With this book, you access your "inner child" and offer the validation that you needed at these earlier stages of development. It has helped me tremendously.  It is suggested that working through this book be done at a time when you're not currently working through more immediate issues (grieving a loss, etc), and that it be done in a partnership with a trusted sponsor, counselor, or therapist. (I used my therapist for this).

[livednlearned]

Thanks for the update tortuga. I had heard about Codependent No More, but not the other book. I have been amazed how much books have helped me heal, including many of the books on the book review board here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=33.0

LnL