Too Good to be True

[Cat Familiar]

This phrase slipped from my lips yesterday at my therapy session. I was recalling how I felt when I first got together with my husband and he was so amazing and wonderful that it felt "too good to be true" and certainly, now after over 10 years of being together, I know that to be a fact.

People with BPD hook us into relationships and paint us white and we feel like we've finally discovered what true love is. Then later, we're painted black. I think it was Waverider who said something about those of us who tend to attract pwBPD: that we're damaged in a way and we've never had that unconditional love from our family of origin. When the pwBPD paints us white, we are totally smitten. We feel like at last, someone finally understands us, appreciates us, cherishes us.

Those of us on this board are often fixer-uppers. We see our significant other as a project that we want to work on. They would be perfect if they... .didn't have such a bad temper, weren't depressed, didn't abuse substances, were faithful, could finish things, were responsible. And we take it upon ourselves to try to mold them into the perfect partner.

I'm certainly guilty of this, but thankfully, through therapy, this board and honest self-reflection, I'm seeing these tendencies in myself and learning to let go of trying to manipulate my husband into my image of the perfect partner. Perhaps for the first time ever, I feel like I'm no longer the codependent person I once was. Instead, I often feel aloof, an observer, but I'm glad to begin to have distance from other people's drama. My therapist gave me a great image: codependency is like being at the end of someone else's fishing line as they're casting about wildly.

Please share your thoughts and experiences about "too good to be true."

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[still_in_shock]

Absolutely agree on the statement "too good to be true". Mine accepted me when I told him I was diagnosed with cancer, my body was undergoing vast surgical damage. He was younger, handsome, etc. He wrapepd me with fairytale love and affection. It was too much to believe. I never posted our pictures on my FB page fearing people will jinx the stunning precious relationship. And then the disaster happenned.

I do not want to repeat my story, but if you are interested, I've shared it here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271907.msg12580061#msg12580061

[Hope26]

Hi Cat Familiar,

Your words about the possible damage within our own psyches, and being codependent, hit me right between the eyes.  I can see these tendencies having played out in my prior marriage and relationships as well as the present one.  I've always been way too ready to give up my own needs and desires in order to yield to those of my partner, though this is my first BPD experience. If you feel like you have to monitor everything you say to your SO, "walking on eggshells", isn't that the epitome of codependence?  Years ago I read a great book called "Codependent No More"; maybe it's time to pick it up again and try to incorporate those lessons.  Thank you for this reminder!  You said you often feel aloof, an observer.  Have you gotten to the point where you feel you can communicate better with  your partner?  Do you have more activities now that are independent of him?  Sometimes I think that might be the best solution.

[DearBFF]

I too said that exact phrase to myself, Cat Familiar!  Only not about a SO, but about my best friend!  I thought finally, here she is, the girl who can keep up with me, hang out with me for hours/days and not get bored!  Yes!  But I just kept having this nagging feeling... .then little things crept in and I just said, well nobody's perfect.  Then little things turned to bigger things that I could no longer ignore.

It makes me wonder if I should even hope that the "too good to be true" is actually out there (mess and all, as I totally understand none of us are perfect), or is it something awful I do to myself to even wish/hope it could ever someday be true?  I've also often wondered, especially recently if anything was even special to her about me, or did she just need a rescuer at the moment I entered her life.  Was I just filling the vacant best friend spot left by the last person she painted white, and then black and discarded?  It's a cruddy feeling and I guess I may never know the answer.

Interesting thing is that her facade/mask is starting to crumble and I wish I was there to catch the pieces; even though it's not my job.  The girl I thought was going to be her new BFF, actually called me the other day saying, "I know you are her best friend, I know I can never replace you, she told me so, but please tell me... .Am I the crazy one or is she?"  And then she burst into tears... . It took me almost 6 months to feel that way, now I'm wondering if everyone around her is seeing the cracks?  Maybe some are easier at spotting them than others?  Thing is... .after spending an hour on the phone with the woman I thought would be the next in line BFF, I quickly realized the woman is severely damaged and I cannot be the person to help her put herself back together.  Not only is it not my job, I already have one BPD BFF, I cannot have two.  So maybe I'm getting better at seeing situations I just cannot handle and learning to turn tail and run before I become entangled.  It sounds kind of harsh, but in a way I think it's a self-defense mechanism I needed to learn.  I can only take so much, all of us... .We can only take so much... .


Hope26, I keep trying to read codependence books and I just keep hitting a brick wall.  I feel like I have had a few of these habits in past relationships, and in my current BPD BFF one, but I have recently realized they do not work for me and changed them.  So when I read the book it seems so far from me I cannot grasp it or find it helpful.  I do however thing the setting boundaries part would be very helpful for me, but I'm having trouble absorbing it while trying to read it from a codependence book.  Any ideas on other books that can help with boundaries?  Are there any BPD specific setting boundary books?  I know boundaries are mentioned in "Stop Walking on Eggshells" but I would like something a little more in depth.  Any ideas?  Thanks!


still_in_shock, I am going to read your story right now... . Sorry for your situation just the bit you mentioned sounds very hard.

[Cat Familiar]

It's tragic to read the stories here where people have entered into relationships seemingly so healthy and fulfilling and then find themselves blindsided by weird dysfunctional behavior. And then we keep trying new approaches, new strategies--eternal optimists we are.

In the time I've been doing therapy and participating in these boards, I've learned that my reactions to the odd responses that my husband presents on occasion can exacerbate his dysregulations. I can now notice when a dysregulation is beginning and realize that I need to be extremely mindful and present. The tools really help. As does biting my tongue. It is of no use to argue with a mentally ill person--any points gained from a rational argument are like throwing gasoline on a wildfire.

I don't look to him for emotional support, although he does provide it readily at times. I have good friend with whom I can speak honestly and share what is going on with me. I have a great therapist who totally understands. I spend a lot of time riding horses and gardening. My life is good--just not what I expected from a marriage.

[DearBFF]

You described it perfectly, Cat Familiar... .just trying to figure it out.  Yes, once you realize it's not you and you can do nothing about it, but be there and hold your tongue as you said on one hand it's comforting to finally understand, but on the other it's sort of sad and lonely.  I too found some great support here and through another friend.  Her best friend is bipolar and she said she alway knew something was up with my BFF just didn't know what it was, although she suspected bipolar, I'm pretty sure it is actually BPD though.

As for my hubby, I realized part of why I connected with my BFF so readily is that I long for that connection.  Hubby is very independent and could probably sit at home in front of his computer for days if I let him or didn't ask him to get up and do something.  He just doesn't have the need for companionship as I do, even though he says he sometimes wishes he had a close friend he doesn't feel the need to go out and find one.  I am the completely opposite and long to be together, and would be all the time but he needs his alone time.  For me I am quite fine on my own and enjoy the quiet immensely since I am otherwise taking care of our 4.5 year old and sometimes quiet is hard to come by, but if I had a choice most of the time between alone or with a close friend I think I'd always choose close friend.  That connection even in a quiet room doing absolutely nothing together just makes me feel so I dunno... .safe maybe, close, supported, I dunno I can't seem to find the right word I just know I enjoy it.  Hubby has realized lately why I so value my friendship with BFF and that the connection I can sometimes feel with her (when we are in a good place) is something I long to have with him, and he's truly making an effort.  It feels good to have him to lean on, but I know he'll never be everything to me as it's just now who he is and since I'm not a computer screen/game I in turn can never be everything for him. HAHA... . 

Cat Familiar, does your hubby also go to therapy or is he unaware of his BPD?  I'm glad you have a close friend you can go to for support it really helps!  I only started being able to notice the dysregulation towards the very end so I'm not sure when/if I'll get to put my new skills to the test but it feels good just to know I am gaining them.  I actually am thinking of buying a DBT book to study for myself, as I think it would be helpful not just for future interactions with my BFF but also for my own emotions.  I've always been an emotional person and it does sometimes make others uncomfortable (those who are usually hiding/stuffing their emotions), but I've never truly minded.  However, if I could curb my emotions in uncomfortable situations where I'd rather not cry/etc that would be something I'd welcome learning I think.  :-)

I too love horses, cat... .oddly enough my BFF and I met because she was fired from a barn I was also fired from (she was an employee and I was a volunteer).  Now she works at a new barn and she sort of brought me with her, only now being there with her is somewhat uncomfortable so I have to try and go when she's not there as it's easier for now.  Not because I don't want to see her, just because I don't want anyone talking to me to get any backlash from her getting jealous of them or angry with me.  :-)  I was told by a woman who gave me an IET (energy session) that the love I seek cannot be found on this Earth/plane.  She said I love differently than most, and the closest I can find here in this life would be animals.  On one hand that's wonderful as I LOVE animals, but on the other it's a bit sad to know I may never feel the love back that I give.  Now I just need a house with land so I can fill it with the animals who need my love as much as I need theirs.  :-)

[Cat Familiar]

... .on one hand it's comforting to finally understand, but on the other it's sort of sad and lonely... .That connection even in a quiet room doing absolutely nothing together just makes me feel so I dunno... .safe maybe, close, supported.

Cat Familiar, does your hubby also go to therapy or is he unaware of his BPD?

I was told by a woman who gave me an IET (energy session) that the love I seek cannot be found on this Earth/plane.  She said I love differently than most, and the closest I can find here in this life would be animals.  On one hand that's wonderful as I LOVE animals, but on the other it's a bit sad to know I may never feel the love back that I give.  Now I just need a house with land so I can fill it with the animals who need my love as much as I need theirs.  :-)

DearBFF, we're on the same track in so many ways. I live with a menagerie of horses, goats, sheep and cats; they're all my buddies, with such different and quirky personalities--none of them are BPD! I know what you mean about being able to just be together with someone hanging out--it's kind of like a family thing. I wish I could do projects or garden with my husband, but he's a mental kind of guy, whereas I'm outdoorsy with the gardens and animals. It's sort of alienating that we're in different worlds most hours of the day, but we do enjoy hanging out together in the evenings.

To answer your question about whether my husband knows he's BPD--he was diagnosed many years ago with something when he did individual therapy--I don't know what. I'm guessing that it might have been BPD because I mentioned I was learning about it because I suspect my mother had it. I saw his body stiffen and an uncomfortable look cross his face--so maybe he does know. He fits 6 of the 9 criteria and he definitely has the depersonalization thing--he's said often that he "doesn't feel real."

[maxsterling]

Other people try to fit me in this category.  And I am sure i can find evidence from my past to where it seems like this could be true - but I've thought about this and I truly don't think it was the sense of finally being loved that made me go for this r/s.  I felt loved by my family of origin and friends, and was generally a very happy person.  And it's not like I was painted ultra pure white from the start.  What attracted me to this r/s was someone who was open and honest about her faults and struggles from the very beginning.  I saw a very strong and inspiring person.  I still see that.

The last thing I want is a "fixer upper". That's always been the case.  It's just this time things progressed to what I consider a point of no return before I realized what I was dealing with.  I was the frog in the boiling pot of water.  My fault was being too naive and trusting and not understanding how many issues a person could have.  I'm the type who is optimistic and sees all problems as solvable.  So at first it was me offering her a place to live while she was relocating.  And then it was me helping with this or that, thinking she just temporarily needs someone to lean on while she re-organizes her life.  I just assumed she was like everyone else and had the skills to handle her needs. 

It's like I assumed she traveled the same road as everyone else, and her solutions were on the same road.   I didn't realize that she had taken a different turnoff from the very beginning, and her solutions lie else where.  For example, for awhile I assumed that her life would be better and out combined life would be better if she just got a job - any job.  I recognize now she is incapable, and pushing her to get a job will have disastrous results.

[Cat Familiar]

Max,

You have done your best to bring your most aware and mindful self to this relationship. You have soldiered on, endured unimaginable insults and abuse, and kept on trying. Whatever you decide, I know will be a well-thought-out decision. I am truly sorry that you are confronted with so much difficulty.   

[Notwendy]

My H also appeared to be too good to be true. He seemed perfect. However, what looked "perfect" on the outside is a mask for deep insecurities and self depreciation. I don't think he painted me white, but he was so guarded of his feelings. I felt like the person who needed to improve. I had this, illusion, that if in time, he saw me as trustworthy, he'd open up to me. Maybe that was the fixer up part, that I could have an emotionally intimate bond with him if only I worked at it.

Our r/s started out good, like most here, but it wasn't over the top different from other r/s. Whenever there were issues though, he usually found a way to blame me for them. Since he seemed so "perfect" I accepted them. Then, after the kids came along, he painted me black, blacker than black. I think for about 10 years he was hardly home, and when he was, he was verbally abusive. However, having small children at the time, I decided to be there for them.

Eventually, I "left" the r/s not physically, but emotionally. I got depressed. I started counseling, and began to get some insight into what was happening. Then, out of the blue, he wanted me back and I experienced the kind of r/s people describe here- painted white, on a pedestal, sending me flowers, love letters- all the things I wished for and he didn't do before. It was strange though-as if somehow a switch turned on in his brain. I hardly recognized this person. And somehow, he imagined that this would erase my memory and we'd be like the black years never happened. But one day, I said no when, after what seemed like a second honeymoon for weeks, I said no-one time- to sex and he flew into a crazy rage. It was as if all that honeymoon time never happened.

Then I knew that too good to be true was basically not true.

Still, he wanted the relationship, but I had changed. I didn't know about BPD with regards to him, but I eventually figured it out. Like Cat says, it is a marriage unlike what I expected, but I think we have made it workable in a different way. We get along well as long as I keep somewhat emotionally distant and do not get too close to his personal space. Before, if we had some kind of problem I would try to talk about it, but I learned that anything like that is felt to him as deep personal criticism. It just doesn't work. We do go to MC, which gives me a safe space to talk about things that I need to say to him, but outside of MC, I do not discuss anything of a personal issue. It's just not effective with him.

The distance isn't for him, it's for me. I won't go back to those days.

[Notwendy]

Max, you remind me of my Dad. He was a kind hardworking person. My mother seems very competent, until you get close to her. I think for my dad, it was a frog in the pot thing too. As to getting a job, I know that my mom is incapable of that, but back in her era, when women didn't work outside the home, the issue didn't come up.

Mom though was not capable of doing much in the home, and had many of the issues that your wife has. Yet, there is another side to her that really is amazing. She was gorgeous in her time, engaging, and very intelligent. Her good moments were amazing, and the bad times were downright terrifying.

[Cat Familiar]

My H also appeared to be too good to be true. He seemed perfect. However, what looked "perfect" on the outside is a mask for deep insecurities and self depreciation... .Eventually, I "left" the r/s not physically, but emotionally. I got depressed. I started counseling, and began to get some insight into what was happening... .We get along well as long as I keep somewhat emotionally distant and do not get too close to his personal space. Before, if we had some kind of problem I would try to talk about it, but I learned that anything like that is felt to him as deep personal criticism. It just doesn't work.

Notwendy, I've excerpted your statements above that completely reflect my experience. It is so deeply frustrating to not be able to bring up difficulties, which always accompany any relationship, no matter how good. Even the slightest dissatisfaction on my part triggers a feeling within him that I'm criticizing him. Often I've started talking about something which has nothing to do with him and he immediately gets on his guard, his face hardens and then he realizes I'm talking about something that happened at the grocery store. I try not to mention anything unpleasant at all because he seems to dwell on all the unpleasant occurrences in his life, the news, the world, the environment. I thought I was marrying my best friend, not training to become a Stepford Wife.

[maxsterling]

I do recall, about two months after I met my now wife, she had moved in with me. It was supposed to be temporary (or so was discussed by both of us) until she could relax and regroup and relocate to where she wanted.  But it was all going so well!  I took her out of town one day for a little picnic, and I remember her remarking to me that "this is going so well, we haven't even fought once!"  I found that statement a bit odd, and in hindsight a bit foretelling.  The next day she started to feel a little sick with something, and a few days after that I got the flu that left me feeling crappy for 10 days.  During that time she rode me for not taking care of myself and for being sick, and generally got into a real negative attitude about nearly everything.  Once I started to feel better, I was feeling depressed, and I let her know that it was difficult for me to be around someone so negative - and then the complete dysregulated meltdown ensued.

It wasn't really me thinking it was too good to be true at the beginning, but I think she did. 

[Notwendy]

"not training to become a Stepford Wife"

That is actually what I did. I didn't know what else to do. One thing I always wished for was to not put my kids through what I went through. Then they were here, and somehow, the same things that were going on between my parents was happening. The kids were showing signs of stress over our fighting. ( on an aside note, I recently was cleaning out old boxes of their school stuff and found notes tucked in it "mom and dad stop fighting" " they need to get a divorse " (that was the spelling). and one note to their father saying it isn't his fault- essentially blaming me.) He always came across as the perfect one, and I was the one who was out of control in the family's eyes).

This so terrified me. I was appearing as if I was acting like my mother to my kids- because I was crying, pleading, JADEing and he was the perfect one. Yet, if I think of what my mom was doing- drinking, raging, screaming, making suicide threats- I was not doing anything like that. Yet according to my H, things would be fine if not for my having problems with him. It was all my fault.

I became a Stepford wife. I cooked, cleaned, took care of the kids. My H had whatever he wanted- he could come and go as he pleased- and he did. I was always home for the kids, there for the kids. He had sex on demand ( if I said no, he would fly into a rage) . I served his meals. On an emotional level, I didn't ask for anything from him.

I had no history of depression. Despite being raised by BPD mom, I always had a hopeful upbeat personality. I saw the best in everything. But one day, that black cloud appeared. It was exactly as the books describe it. I started crying and I just couldn't stop. Through a lot of counseling and personal work, I am not a Stepford wife. I am me.

Thankfully, I have a warm and close relationship with the kids. I don't speak of the issues with their dad. He is good to them. However, I know they don't think I am  the cause of the problems as I think they see that I have been a consistent parent to them.

[Notwendy]

Max, I think of my own parents as having a similar story as you. In fact, my experience has given me insight to what their lives could have been like. My mother can really pull off wonderful if she wants to. Actually, I think one of the issues that are common to people with BPD is that they want to actually be their perfect selves,  but nobody is perfect. When they inevitably fail at "perfect" they descend into that awful self depreciation and shame that they suffer with. Even the slightest sense of criticism to them can start it.

I know that my H loves me, and that I love him too, but I had to learn a tougher love. My version of love was to be co-dependent, to accommodate, to give up parts of who I was in order to not cause them pain. How could I know anything different? It was all I grew up with. So, to my H, I must have seemed too good to be true, the perfect wife who would never cause him pain. However, nobody is perfect, and so, I inevitably failed at that too.

I don't know if it registers with my H, but I tell him I don't want perfect. I want real. Real people have both strengths and weaknesses. I think it is a good thing for us all to strive to be good people, to do good in the world, and to be ethical, however, perfect is out of our league. I had to first accept myself, as I am, imperfect, and then, also accept others too.

[Cat Familiar]

I think the "Too Good to be True" behavior must be exhausting for the pwBPD and therefore they can only keep it up for a limited time--long enough to get us to take the bait. My husband showed me his best side for a lot longer than some stories I read here. It just dawned upon me that I made him wait two years before I would get married. So he had to keep up the good behavior.

Now he doesn't seem to care about showing me his dark side and that's what I see much more frequently than the pleasant side he used to lure me in.

Share your stories?

[ColdEthyl]

When I met my H, my foot was out the door on my marriage. I was married 14 years to someone I stopped even liking as a person after the first few months, but we had children, I saw his potential, and I was determined to make it work.

It did not. Four months before I met my H at work, I told him it was done... .we were done. He needed to move... .he kept trying to find excuses to stay at the house. So, he was still there. Separate bedrooms, but still there.

My H is very charismatic, charming, witty, handsome, etc. We started talking a lot at work, and we had so much in common. He liked the same things I do... .had the same values. He seemed perfect for ME. I started to fall for him, thinking I had really found my 'soulmate'. I was warned by a co-worker when we started dating that I better not hurt him, this better not be a rebound situation. It wasn't because I had already mourned and grieved that marriage years ago.

I felt lucky that 'someone like him' could love 'someone like me'. It's true, Cat, what you said about being broken ourselves a bit. It was all I ever wanted... .one person in my life to love me. Just one. That's how I always felt, and it was because of my childhood.

The first time I really saw his ugly side, he was playing U2 music and I hate U2. I said something about Bono being a dick, and he flipped out. I mean... .flipped out. Yelling, screaming... .throwing things... .he dumped a bottle of water on my head called me names all over what? Because I didn't agree with his music choice?

I felt like an outsider watching someone I didn't even know. I started thinking to myself wow ook... .something is really... .really wrong here. When we talked about it, he said he was diagnosed with depression. I didn't buy it. I started to research... .finally found this place here and everything made sense.

I know I still have the 'caregiver' mentality. I don't think I can "change him" or "save him" anymore, but I still really want to help him. He's a good man, he just suffers from this illness. I'm going to start T this summer, and I plan on working on myself and the co-dependency, now that I know that's my deal.

[Cat Familiar]

I felt lucky that 'someone like him' could love 'someone like me'. It's true, Cat, what you said about being broken ourselves a bit. It was all I ever wanted... .one person in my life to love me. Just one. That's how I always felt, and it was because of my childhood.

The first time I really saw his ugly side, he was playing U2 music and I hate U2. I said something about Bono being a dick, and he flipped out. I mean... .flipped out. Yelling, screaming... .throwing things... .he dumped a bottle of water on my head called me names all over what? Because I didn't agree with his music choice?

Yes, yes, Ethyl. I totally understand. My husband seemed so amazing when I first got together with him--he took my breath away. In fact, when he would visit me, before he moved a few hundred miles closer, I would leave the patio chair that he had sat in, in the exact position he left it. He'd return to his home and I would look at it and think of him sitting there just a few days prior. Smitten is not nearly a strong enough word for how I felt then.

And then some time down the road when we'd traveled to the opposite coast to visit his family, I remember him complaining about his sisters and I tried to say something that would make him feel better and at the same time, to acknowledge their perspectives. He became extremely angry and said that I was "taking their side." I was truly shocked. All I was doing was trying to see the other side of an issue and share my opinion.

[Notwendy]

We were in school. The few times I saw his ugly side, it was brief and he could blame it on stress, exams ... .I thought when we were finished things would get better.

Married and with kids later, he felt trapped. He insisted on coming and going as he pleased. I could ask him for nothing. I buckled down for the kids. The one thing I wanted more than anything was for them to not go through what I went though as a kid, a house of crazy fighting and BPD mom.

Although it was tough emotionally and I eventually got depressed, His being gone all the time was actually a blessing. He didn't have patience with the kids, and resented me for his situation ( I did not trap him- he chose to marry me) but he blamed me for it anyway. However, if I arranged it so he could be with the kids when he wanted to, he was good to them, and he supported us, which I am grateful for, not that he ever let me forget it for a moment. As far as he was concerned, his contribution to the family was the one that counted the most.

Years later, he was somewhat contrite about what happened. I think he has made a genuine effort to repair things. However, these years have pretty much reframed how I think about romantic gestures. Sadly, I don't trust them. I think that anything too good to be true probably is.

And yes, like many here, I was emotionally hurt by my parents. My mother would actually tell me I was unlovable, and that she and dad wanted to send me away. So, yes, all I wanted was for someone to love me. I think my H has actually grown to love me, in a way. However, I have a  hard time with the baggage from the early years, being married to someone who didn't want to be married to me. I often wonder why he didn't just leave me. I think in some ways it would have been kinder at the time. I think it was because although he didn't want me, he could't stand the idea of me with someone else.

And it would look bad. Everyone thinks he is wonderful, perfect. In many ways he is. Then, there is the dark side that came out.

[DearBFF]

Cat Familiar: Very similar indeed... .I have trouble finding people out in the world yet online I seem to randomly run into people more like me than ever, .  Wish I could walk around in real life and connect more.  :-)  Finding my BFF was like that in a way, I could call her up and go for walks when hubby just wanted to sit inside in his computer.  We could go visit the horses together, with our little ones even.  Now I have to make myself go out, and avoid the barn... .that just bums me out but I'm working on it.  I am working through my stack of library books.  I just finished "Understanding a Borderline Mother" which was very informative... .now I'm on "mindfulness for borderline personality disorder" which I like very much and think I may invest in my very own DBT workbook because I very much like the mindfulness practices and would like to learn the other DBT techniques as well.  I'm glad to hear your husband was in therapy and working on things even if he hasn't shared them with you.  It must be frightening to think that if you share that part of yourself with someone that they might leave; I cannot imagine what it must feel like.

maxsterling: That's exactly it... .I met BFF and hubby and I kind of took her under our wing.  Trying to help her and her daughter get out of an emotionally abusive relationship and at one point even asked her to move in with us.  (Somehow at the time I asked she was in a dissociated state because she completely does not remember the conversation or her saying no thanks.)  If she would have moved in it would have ended in more of a disaster than our relationship being in the limbo it is in now, because it would have involved both of our daughters as well.  Now, while she is allowed to come visit whenever she likes my husband made me revoke the key we gave her because of her unpredictable behavior.  He's afraid she'll do something extreme when she gets angry and trash our stuff or something.  Who on Earth has that in mind when they meet someone and try to help them, that that would be a possibility?

Notwendy: I have used that exact phrase before "I want real" to BFF.  The mask has slipped on a few occasions where she crumples into my arms sobbing and I comfort her.  Then it's like this switch flips and she's desperately pulling herself up and away acting like everything is fine.  She usually gets distant then and sometimes mean/angry pushing me away because she hates that I just saw behind the mask.  I sometimes find myself just staring and thinking "there she is" because I know the real her is up inside even if she doesn't want me to see.  She gets upset though and says things like, "Stop looking at me!  I feel like you're judging me, like you think I'm pitiful."  And I respond, "No to me you are beautiful, especially when I see the real you.  The beautiful part underneath that has scars and damage, that's real and the fact that you keep moving forward even though you hurt and try to cover it all to me that's beautiful.  You shouldn't hide the real you, because that's the strong, beautiful woman I fell in love with."  She generally just hates that because she thinks I'm lying, but I'm 100% serious... .I'd much rather hang out with my friend who's down and grumpy and real than up and happy with a plaster smile on her mask of a face.  Besides when I know she's being fake (for lack of a better world) that doesn't really make me want to let my guard down and share my problems/issues/etc she makes me feel like I then need to pretend to and I don't want to.

ColdEthyl: My BFF has been diagnosed with depression, anxiety, and OCD, and they told her possibly PTSD... .it could be all of that but I think that also fits well with BPD.  I let go of my "caregiver" side with her when she pushed me away getting angry saying that she didn't want me to think she couldn't do it herself.  I recently realized it could be enabling, but the interesting thing is for the most part I didn't do anything different for her that I wouldn't do for any regular/healthy friend in need.  Whether it was helping a mom go through a divorce shop for her new place.  Take care of her kid when she has to work so she doesn't have to pay a babysitter (plus our daughters love to play together).  Show up with a meal so she doesn't have to cook.  Etc... .that's just the kind of person I am... .  I started to see though after she already pushed me away one of the previous times that while that's totally fine for a friend in a "temporary" state of flux (similar to what maxsterling was saying), but for a person with BPD it's like a lifeline they may cling to which could cause them to never learn to do for themselves.  Thing is when you start doing you don't realize that it can become your full time job just doing for them.  Now after she was angry at me for doing things she said she could do herself and she didn't want me to think she couldn't do them, she has transferred all of that to her new boyfriend who does all those same things for her, .  However, she feels it's ok because he's her boyfriend and I'm her friend so it's ok for him to do them not me.  Yet, she still will never learn to do them unless she takes them on herself.

[ColdEthyl]

@DearBFF

When I say help him, I don't mean do things for him. In fact, I mean the opposite. By learning how to communicate better, he's starting to talk to me about how he feels more, he's acknowledging more, and he's trying to make better choices. Doing things for him isn't going to help, and you are right about that. I've been changing how I say things and what I do slowly over the past few months to try to get him more independent.

[DearBFF]

ColdEthyl: I see what you are saying and I'm glad it's getting better.  It's just so hard to wrap my mind around it that something as simple as brining an extra sandwich to share for lunch (because I know she forgets to bring/pack) one is actually enabling her to not ever learn to pack her own lunch.  To me it's so simple and is something I would do for any friend, so learning that I was not helping is just hard... .  then I feel bad like I've made it worse.

[ColdEthyl]

ColdEthyl: I see what you are saying and I'm glad it's getting better.  It's just so hard to wrap my mind around it that something as simple as brining an extra sandwich to share for lunch (because I know she forgets to bring/pack) one is actually enabling her to not ever learn to pack her own lunch.  To me it's so simple and is something I would do for any friend, so learning that I was not helping is just hard... .  then I feel bad like I've made it worse.

Hey, I didn't realize I was doing it, either. Some things I'm still trying to figure out if its enabling or helping... .sometimes they look the same.

[DearBFF]

Hey, I didn't realize I was doing it, either. Some things I'm still trying to figure out if its enabling or helping... .sometimes they look the same.

I think I've come to realize that if it's something they need to learn to do for themselves and you do it then it's enabling.  If it's a short time/one time thing/project/etc then I think it's ok to help, but not to take over and do the whole thing.  For instance taking her lunch didn't seem enabling, but the thing is at the time I wasn't even thinking in terms of that.  If you has said that to me then I'd be confused thinking... .it's not like she's an alcoholic and I'm buying her booze!    Thinking about it now though what did she do the days I wasn't there?  Pack her own lunch, no of course not, she'd have somebody go pick her up something or just not eat.  On one occasion she even called me and I brought her a Publix sub not realizing my favor was beyond the scope of what I should be doing for her.

On the other end though she moved into a new place and I helped her.  We used both cars to pack her belongings and move her in, made a list of stuff she needed and made a run to the store.  She also wanted to paint so we both looked at colors (she ultimately picked I swear her bathroom is some shade of burnt pumpkin, ), and then I spent a few days helping her paint.  Yes sometimes I poked and prodded until she'd get up to finish when she didn't want to get up from a break (probably a bit above and beyond), but ultimately we did it together which I did not see as enabling I saw it as helping a friend.  :-)  If I was moving in and buying things, and painting I'd want the same level of help.  Not because I am incapable of doing it myself, but because help is nice, sometimes I like a bit of company, and a little encouragement is always welcome!

[Restored2]

Hi Cat Familiar.  Mine said that our relationship seemed "too good to be true" towards the beginning of us dating.  She then asked me if I thought it could last.  I told her that I wasn't in it for a short run.  She didn't really respond.  In reflection, a red flagged conversation that I overlooked.

[Cat Familiar]

It's amazing how common it is among those of us here to have thought we found the "perfect partner" only to be blindsided when they suddenly turn into a witch or an ogre.

[DearBFF]

So nice to know we're not alone!   

I still have hope she may still turn out to be my BFF... .*fingers crossed*

[Notwendy]

This makes me think of my father. My mother was a real beauty- she could stop traffic, really, and that was how my father looked at her his entire life. He was smitten by her.

People who know my mom tell me how much they like her. I am sure they think I am some heinous daughter for not visiting more often, but they have no idea.

I wonder when the witch appeared to him. I wonder if it was in the first few months of their marriage or if he had some good years with her. He was so romantic with her when I was little. I remember him taking her on trips. She had beautiful clothes- looked just like the ones on Mad Men. He tried so hard to make her happy. I would like to think that he succeeded at times.

If I think of my father as a young man in love with my mom, I feel sad for him.

[Cat Familiar]

Notwendy,

I feel sad for my dad too. Very similar circumstances in their marriage. Ultimately he just tuned out and shut down. After he passed away, I realized that my mom had dementia. I moved her several hundred miles to be close to me and assisted her in her new house until her thought processes became too unhinged for living without 24/7 assistance. After being around her on a near daily basis, I kept thinking that my dad had been a saint for enduring her as long as he did.

He got sold a bill of goods, as they used to say. She was very good at putting on a front, but had a hard time keeping it up.

[DearBFF]

Cat Familiar & Notwndy

Have either of you read Understanding the Borderline Mother?  It might be helpful in better understanding your moms even more.  I just read it and found especially interesting the mention of the types of partners Borderline Mothers have, as they usually attract their opposite or equal.  For instance a Queen might attract a King or a Witch (dominant) might attract a Fisherman (submissive).  I am pretty sure my BFF is mostly a Waif, everyone around her gets frustrated at her seemingly lack of ability to take care of herself and make good decisions.  The book says they tend to attract the Frog-Prince, which very much fits her soon to be ex-husband whom I also believe probably has Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  Her current boyfriend seems to be a Huntsman, since it looks like he wants to protect and take care of her; possibly putting her needs above his own.  Usually Huntsmen are attracted to the Hermit, and I believe her step-father is a Huntsman and her mother is a Hermit.  Interestingly enough her mother's first husband, BFF's father, was most likely a Frog-Prince; he was a drug addict and ended up in jail, BFF hasn't seen him since she was 12 (over a decade).

I saw there is a post with more info about the book here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61982.0