11 yo daughter still sleeping with BPD Mother

[truthbeknown]

My 11 year old daughter still sleeps with her mother.  In talking with many parents over the years, there is a general conscensis that if a child is scared or occassionally comes into a parents bed to sleep that it would be okay.  However, because of the personality disorder, my ex does not like to sleep alone.  It was one of the red flags i missed when i first married her in my 20's.  I believe she fed my ego and bought it hook, line and sinker.  Now, my 11yo has replaced me.  I think my ex is feeding her ego subconsciously that she is taking care of "mom".  When i have tried to talk with my daughter about this she says her room is too messy to sleep in.  My ex has "hoarding" issues now and keeps piles of things in my daughters room so she can't sleep there.  

One time i dropped her off and we needed to get something out her room (clothes etc.). i went up their with her because her mother was not home and there was literally 2 feet of clothes piled on the floor.  At the bottome was damp clothes and old food bags.   I spent 3 hours cleaning up the room (i took pictures before and after).

She slept in her bed possibly for 3 or 4 times after that and then Christmas came and her mother piled all the decoration boxes in her room so it was messy again.  Obviously my ex is doing everything she can to make a barrier for my daughter to sleep in her room.  

BTW, now the kids discourage me from coming in the house if she is not there.  I think she was angry at them for letting me clean up her room.  Now they are very guarded about letting me in.  Frankly, it is too painful for me to see her house in dis-array.  She even moved in a friend who i believe has personality disorders herself and to top it off she's a social worker.  So now she has a live in social worker who is un-well enough to let this happen.

I can't describe how sad i am for my kids and i'm upset with the situation that i can't do anything to fight this because of finances and truthfully the disease and manipulations are so strong that the kids would be taught to hate me even if i did get custody.

I wish there was a fund for parents like me to help support the fight against dysfunction.  Currently, i working two jobs (including waiting tables) and i stil can't make enough to pay the full child support!    The kind of support my kids need is not money!

I am alone in this and hurting because not too many people understand if they haven't dealt with this disease.  I think that most people view a person like me who is behind on child support, his life flipped upside down as the one with the problem.

thanks for listening... . this is the only safe place to share my feelings  about this situation

[enlighten me]

My exgf also lets her kids sleep with her. D11 s 9 and s2. This has given me some concern as I worry about my son 2 having boundary and security issues when he grows up.

It is now a massive red flag for me also.

[bravhart1]

We spend the first night or two after SD6 gets back from moms house dealing with SD6's night issues. She says "we don't love her as much as mommy because we don't let her sleep with us" and that "we aren't sensitive enough to her fears of the dark and monsters" (and yes I do know those are moms words)

It's so hard to see her finally get to a place where she is sleeping through the night and rested and happy, only to come back from a couple days at moms fun house off her sleep schedule, and convinced she can't sleep alone because mom has told her she has good reasons to be afraid.

The court order says she should not sleep with her, the child's counselor and moms counselor say don't sleep with her, but in the end, no one can make mom comply. It's just too hard for them to sleep alone.

[truthbeknown]

yes,  they won't be compliant anyway and that is why i can't bear to see the living conditions anymore.  Some suggested that i call DCFS but since my ex's friend who lives there now has worked for them it is like she has a built in protector.  I think she is very calculating in her actions.  I also knew that since i was struggling for awhile (last year i got very ill and had to stay with a few different friends while i recovered) that if i called DCFS they might just take the kids to a foster home etc.?  In the end i figured i could not bear to see that and it might be worse off.  Therefore, i just deal with things the best i can. I am more sad for the kids and how messed up they could be in their adulthood because of all of this.

[BlueSunshine]

First off I want to say I support people who allow their children to share the bed with them as long as it is in a healthy manner.

My brother, who is one of the most normal (and successful) people I have ever known, slept with my mom until his early teen years. He suffered from bad dreams *shrugs* and would wake in the middle of the night, and kick my dad out (who would then sheepishly stumble into my brothers room to sleep). 



However, keeping your daughters room like a storage closet of sorts does sound like a manipulative way to get the child to sleep with the parent, especially combined with her inability to sleep alone.

Once I encountered a terrible situation, where a teen I knew told me privately she was having dreams of a sexual nature that she felt were real. In private I called my children's pediatrician and discussed it with him. There were also other suspicious things in the household. The pediatrician happened to be on the local school board, and a close friend's mother was also a teacher at the girls school. With their help the case was investigated immediately and powerfully.

You can always go to the school or police with your concerns and state how you feel, that because of the roommate, things may be overlooked. They can be very helpful.


I do know that if you neglect to report it, and it is found out and proven that you knew, you may get yourself into some trouble as well. I suggest you call a child abuse hotline, or a lawyer, they can tell you what could happen, and take it from there.

[ennie]

My SD is 11 and also sleeps with mom; SD15 often does, too.  Same kind of thing... ."I sleep in mommy's bed because my bed has a lot of stuff on it from when we moved." (they moved 2 years ago now). 

When SD11 comes to our house, she feels really lonely in her bed and wants to sleep with us.  It is a hard situation, because it IS hard to have one thing in one house that feels close and cuddly and like you are little, and then have to grow up and deal with the physical separation at the other house over and over again.  I know our house is the place she gets to both be a kid and to grow up, so we need to let her sleep alone here; at the same time, I feel for her pain at being suddenly alone.

I am 8 years in to being her SM, and here is how I see it.  First, as parents we are not here to make the pain go away, but to help kids cope with pain and other challenging feelings. So as much as it breaks my heart to see how she is not getting what she needs, that is part of her life (and yes, DH did try to get the court to suggest separate beds, we have done what we can to change it, but this is just out of his control).  What I can do to help her cope is to be clear about my own boundaries and values (I am willing to put her to bed sometimes and have a "sleepover" night with she and I sleeping in one bed, but am not willing to have her sleep in our bed).  Then, what I can do is empathize when she experiences pain an loneliness about these boundaries; I can help her to articulate what she is feeling about this, by listening, asking questions, and mirroring, and validating.  I can let her know I love her with all my heart, and that being separate people with separate needs does not mean I love her any less.  I can also inquire into what she feels in a non-judging way. 

So she has been exploring this topic.  She recently told me, "It is funny.  I say I miss mommy when I come to your house, but the time I really miss mommy the most is at her house.  I miss her when I am about to leave, and I am afraid I have not done enough, that I am not being a good enough daughter."

It is very hard to bear our children's pain without trying to make it stop.  It kills me that she experiences her mom this way.  But there really is nothing I can do to fix it.  I can just love her through it. 

So in sum, my conclusion is that for my 11 year old SD, sleeping with mommy makes it hard for her to be her own person, hard to be clear about who she is and how she feels.  At our house, when she sleeps alone, that pain allows some of these feelings and thoughts about mom to surface.  This is an opportunity for me to show her I love her, and help her to be able to develop ways of coping with this pain, by talking about it, by asking for help ("Will you put me to bed tonight? I feel really sad and am missing mommy" by experiencing her feelings without needing to solve them. Learning how to deal with that is what makes SD11 less likely to have "issues" related to sleeping with mommy.  In other words, if we do not help her to cope and know her feelings are okay as is, she will figure out to cope in more creative ways that show up later as 'issues.' so I focus on her just feeling the painful feelings she is left with and dealing with them as is, being supported and loved thorugh it.

[Thunderstruck]

My SD10 sleeps with her uBPDbm too. They have lived in a 1 bedroom apartment for the past 2.5 years. SD10 doesn't even have her own room. She tells us her mom sleeps naked with her. 

[truthbeknown]

well, i at least i know i'm not alone in this.  It just kind've makes me scared about how that will influence her.   I work with people in a restaurant part time and the crew is mostly in their 20's.  Several of the girls came from dysfunctional families or even just divorced families and they bragged about how they cheated on their boyfriends that they had before.  The one girl really surprised me because she is very mature and handles herself professionally at work.  However, that is how my ex was too.  Very professional in the work environment (mask) but behind the scenes really had some stuff brewing on the inside.  I will do the best i can in having a fatherly influence but her mom's "man hater" attitude and distain for me may create problems for her with men down the road. Only time will tell.

[tortuga]

D19 (just recently diagnosed BPD) slept with us until she was 3.

She felt very insecure, sleeping by herself, so by about 18 months, she began literally climbing out of her crib, and she would come and stand in our bedroom doorway asking us if she could sleep with us.

We would go spend time with her, and establish a bedtime ritual where we'd help her brush her teeth, then we would take turns, and spend about an hour or half hour with her. Reading books to her, and singing bedtime stories.  It took about 6 months for her to accept this routine, and stay in her own bed, but we kept up the routine until she was about 6, when she didn't seem to need our help falling asleep.

My SIL is probably also uBPD, and her daughter has some form of something going on (BPD? ADHD? we don't know) -  (but she has been in treatment since age 9).  She slept with her dad until about age 10. SIL did not sleep in the same room with them. Seems pretty concerning on the surface - but my point is, that this separation anxiety seems to be a common theme where BPD is involved.

[truthbeknown]

tortuga,

I think the separation anxiety is projected onto my daughter.  Emeshment is prevelant as well. 

[bravhart1]

The thing that worries me the most with the sleeping with the children is that for these kids they never get to find their own security. No ability to put themselves back to sleep or self sooth.

The therapists are all in agreement that for SD6 this is damaging her ability to be a separate person, that she MUST be in bed with mom to sooth mom. She gets terrible sleep, is less confident she will be ok at night in her own bed and is afraid in her own home because mom has used fear to stress to SD6 that sleeping alone leaves her vulnerable.

It reinforces moms stance that dad loves bravhart more than SD6 because he will sleep with bravhart but not SD6. But please know if dad ever did sleep with Sd6, that mom would say he is doing something wrong ie sexual abuse.

For me, it makes me mad that Sd6 has been led to feel she is unwanted, when we are really just trying to give her normal (whatever that is).

It wreaks havoc on our normal schedule to have SD6 fearful at night, and feeling rejected at our home. But we try to stay the course.

Why are BPD folks so stuck on this? Why is it when even the "experts" have shown her many studies about how her sleeping with SD6 is causing SD6 to have emotional issues and yes even poor boundaries that they refuse to do what's best for the child?

Our BPDm goes further, they shower together every time, etc. SD6 isn't allowed to change in privacy, and even has to show mom her bowel movements before flushing (in the name if watching out for SD6's health), she is never allowed to have a bedroom door or bathroom door closed at moms house.

[ImaFita]

Personally, I don't think it does a lot for the child's autonomy.

Sleeping with the Mother, becoming attached to the point of losing their own identity - if they ever had one in the first place. I have heard a lot of stories of children of BPD parents growing up to lack a sense of self. I think it's a pretty big red flag if children sleep with their Mother into their teens - especially if she exhibits traits of BPD.

I'm not sure it is that recognised though, I have raised a similar issue to my psychologist, he kind of just shook his head and told me I was wasting my time pushing the point. He mentioned it being fairly common, but agreed that it wasn't healthy.

[ennie]

I read a great article (perhaps from this site) about the important role of "mentalizing" as a criteria in the success of kids of parents with mental illness.  This means putting words to mental states for oneself and for the child.  For example, "I hear that you are feeling scared and missing sleeping with your mom on this transition day, and that you want me to put you to bed so you do not feel that way.'  Or "when I am used to sleeping with someone every night, like your daddy, and he is gone sometimes I feel lonely and I miss him.  That goes away pretty quickly, like by the next night." 

This is a little different than validating alone, as it focuses on naming the internal states.  I find that SD11 has really evolved her perception of what is happening thorough this process.  Initially, she was feeling so sad when she came to our home and cannot sleep with us the way she sleeps with mom.  Now, she has had some profound insights.  First, she says, "I miss my mom.  But in a few days, I will not feel that way."  She also says things like, "I noticed that while I say I miss my mom on transition day, I really miss her the most at her house, a few days before I come to your house.  I feel like I want to be closer to her, and that I am not a good daughter."  WOW!

I  think this can be hugely useful in the development of her independence--just listening to her and naming and "normalizing" her feelings ("I would feel that way too if I was sleeping with my mom every night being held by her!"--which allows her to see that her feelings are normal, but her situation is not).   Just feeding back what she feels and what I feel lets her change her way of seeing things. 

[truthbeknown]

the truth is there is nothing we can do about it.  Bpd's aren't able to think about what is best for the child; it's all about them and what they need.  This weekend i'm supposed to see my kids and my daughter had asked me if we could go to her school carnival last time we talked.  I told her to let me know when it was and we'll see if we can work it in.

Her mom will not talk to me about the schedule so i am forced to have to communicate through my children.  It makes both of us look the same in the kids eyes because my ex won't be reasonable with me and therefore the kids become the inbetween.  So today i talked to my daughter and she told me that her mom is taking her to the carnival.  It's my weekend to see the kids and here she goes interupting again!  It never ends.  They (BPD) i think are incapable of thinking of the needs of their children; they believe they OWN their children.   And these kids are growing up to be apaths (those who are brainwashed and follow or try to get admiration from psychopathic/sociopathic/BPD people). 

I'm super frustrated but i will find a way to make it work like taking my son to a movie or something.  I am always looking for the silver lining.

[ennie]

the truth is there is nothing we can do about it. 

I really do not think this is true; but I think that you need to re-frame.  You cannot control what BPD mom does.  You cannot make her not sleep with your child. 

But you can do a great deal to influence how this behavior impacts your child. 

As a step-parent, it is easier for me to see I have no direct control.  It is like being a friend of someone with a broken heart... .I am not the object of the broken heart, so there is no way I can impact that the friend's  heart is broken.  But I can support and love them through it, so that this is a positive learning experience instead of a devastating experience. 

Moving away from the analogy, this is even more so with parenting children.  You cannot protect them from pain.  But you have great resources to assist them in noticing their feelings, coping with feelings, and creating behavior that supports feeling better.  Because they are kids, you will be showing them these tools for the first time, so you have a HUGE ability to influence them.  You have the capacity to love them through it, to help them know that pain is an okay part of life, that they can do it, that you are right there with them. 

Do not underestimate the power you have to transform painful experiences into powerful, liberating experiences.  My SDs BPD mom spends volumes of time "protecting" them from pain... .sleeping with them and never allowing them that painful first step of independence is just one of the ways she sacrifices their individuality and happiness to avoid discomfort, hers and theirs.

You have the ability to offer something different, and it will profoundly impact their lives.

[Ripped Heart]

Truthbeknown, my heart almost stopped when I started reading your post because I can so relate to that to the point I felt extremely uncomfortable.

My exN/BPDw would often have her d9 sleeping with her. Initially, I didn't see a problem with that because of her age and because I didn't know that it was literally every night. Given that her d9 was not my biological daughter, I had reservations about sharing a bed with a minor to the point that I would sleep on the sofa. It led to a number of disagreements between myself and exN/BPDw because she couldn't accept that I didn't feel comfortable with the idea and that by marrying her, meant I took on d9 as my own which to her meant I should be sharing a bed with d9.

I don't even share a bed with my own children. Occassionally, I will lay with them if they are restless until they fall asleep but not to the point of sharing a bed. ExN/BPDw had me convinced that the issue was me and that this was perfectly normal and I believed it at first until I saw other things disjointed.

exN/BPDw was mid 30's and still lived at home with her parents. She had never lived on her own and had no intentions of (ex-MIL definitely NPD) when ex-MIL and ex FIL would go away for the weekend, exN/BPDw would sleep in her parents bed along with d9 "so she could smell her mother" I told you it got a little disjointed   and expected me to do the same thing too.

I've spoken very little about that in the past and certainly not mentioned it to friends and family because it just sounded so completely insane. For some parents, it may not be a big thing but to me it was.

exBPDgf didn't like to sleep alone either, but at least when I wasn't there, it was the cats and not the children.

[JIMB]

My 11 year old daughter still sleeps with her mother.  

Wow - when I first meet my ex she had her 9 year old daughter still sleeping in her bed all the time also. I remember thinking it was little odd, but I didn't put a lot into it. As I am very much a person who believes that kids need to respect the parents bed time, I never encouraged it other than the very occasional time. But I found frequently if I traveled on business the youngest spent most of the time sleeping with the ex. I bet this happens a lot now I'm gone . hmmm

I feel for you about the hoarding & the mess also. The x filled up two wardrobes with clothes & shoes she never wore & I was forced to have my clothes in the spare room at the other end of the house!