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Author Topic: Pipe Dream? How do we get our needs met?  (Read 689 times)
MercuryHat

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« on: May 03, 2015, 04:46:03 PM »

Stemming from FormFlier's Validation thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=276194.0, and on Vortex's suggestion I begin this thread.

I envision this as a place where each of us can write down our "Pipe Dreams" AKA our Needs.

You know, the needs and desires that we have for our relationship with our significant other. The ones that have so far eluded us.

At the very least we can validate these for each other. We can be seen and acknowledged that these dreams are beautiful and worthy.

Perhaps, others may even have some feedback and or strategies on how they got that very need (or one similar) met.

Or... .
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MercuryHat

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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 04:49:38 PM »

My "pipe dream" is that I am able to have a calm discussion with my partner that doesn't get weird and messed up and go down the rabbit hole into wonderland.

Wait! That is what I don't want... .

Let me try again.


What I do want is calm discussions, where he is able to say "I think I need to take a break now" when he is feeling emotional. Then, he comes back when he's calm and says "I'm ready to discuss this again".

My other pipe dream is that after he loses his temper and goes off on me, he comes to me with an unsolicited and genuine apology, acknowledging that I don't deserve to be treated that way.

(typing the last one brings tears to my eyes after all the times he has justified his verbal abuse with what I did to deserve it)
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 08:43:13 PM »

I have all sorts of mixed feelings about this topic. I thought about this topic all the way home from work today and the thing that keeps coming to mind is: "How did I get my needs met before I met my husband?" The answer was friends, family, doing my thing, etc. The key difference is that before I met my husband, I didn't really expect anybody else to meet my needs. I got different things from different relationships. Is the only reason to get into a relationship to get needs met? That is a question that I have been pondering. When I met my husband, I enjoyed his company. We laughed and talked and were silly together. When did I start relying on him to meet my needs?

I have actively been trying to find other ways of getting my needs met so that I can go back to enjoying his company during the good times. Easier said than done because a lot of the needs that I have stem from stuff that he has done. I didn't have a big emotional void when I met him. A lot of people get into relationships to fill some kind of void. I don't feel like that was the case. Now, I do have that void because of all of the little nitpicky stuff he has done to tear me down over the years.

Anyway, my pipe dream is to get to a place where I trust him enough to really be there for me. I would love for him to hold me, especially when I cry. I didn't even know that I had that need until I was with a male friend. He said something that hurt my feelings. I spent most of my time with him holding back the tears. At one point, he called me on it and asked what is wrong. I didn't want to share with my friend. He lightheartedly said, "I promise I won't laugh or roll my eyes or anything like that." He put on his straightest face at which point I told him why I was about to cry. At that point, the dam broke and down came a flood of big ole crocodile tears. He didn't say anything. He grabbed me and held me to his chest and just let me cry without saying a word. I don't even know how long I cried. When I was done, I sniffled and snorted and lifted my head up from his chest. All he said was, "Are you done?" I said, "Yep, I am done." And we went on to laugh and cut up and that was it. I didn't realize that I needed that until I got it. The bad thing is that I honestly can't remember a time when I could cry on my husband's shoulder and have him hold me without getting weird. Most of the time when I cry, it is when I am alone. I have lots of memories of crying into my pillow at night.
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 09:02:48 PM »

Enjoying his company is a need. If we didn't "need" our SO for something, why would we have them at all? What's the point in a relationship if we don't get ANYTHING out of it. Are we all supposed to be altruistic in our relationships? I don't think so.

Should our SO fulfill all our needs? Of course not. But if they can't fulfill the most basic need of feeling safe in the relationship, something is seriously wrong. And it's name is BPD.

That being said, my pipe dream is that I can say something and if it has been misunderstood, be asked for clarification. My pipe dream is to have a normal conversation. Just one.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2015, 09:48:40 PM »

 Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  :)o the dishes once in a while?

I'm kidding. He does a lot, and I appreciate it. I just joke with him about this because he absolutely refuses to do it.

I used to ask him, but I stopped asking so long ago, I don't even remember when.

As to needs, I do get a lot met through friends and other activities. I think I have really reframed what a relationship is. One of my basic needs is not to be mistreated. That has improved through counseling and my getting stronger boundaries.
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Hmcbart
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2015, 02:22:10 PM »

I agree with the dishes  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Affection, more than anything else, I would love some affectionate words or gestures. Something that I don't have to ask for first. To feel needed by my wife for something other than income and household chores. In her mind she is making me feel needed when she asks me to take out the trash or get the oil changed in the car. To actually feel wanted and needed by my wife, that's a Pipe Dream.

I would also love to have an argument that is resolved in under a week. One where we both either agree or at least agree to disagree and end it. No more days of silent treatment with a side of in-needed criticism thrown. If she could admit she's wrong in some instances that would be icing on the cake.

Think I'll ask Santa for these things fit Christmas this year.
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2015, 02:46:50 PM »

I will add another one for the dishes Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) For the longest time my husband has said that he refuses to do the dishes unless their is a dishwasher. We are moving in a week and we will have a dishwasher so this statement will be tested!

I think I would just like to be able to tell me husband something that was crappy about my day/night/life and he validate my feelings about it instead of telling how his day/night/life whatever it is that I complained about was worse. That would be really nice. He's suppose to be my best friend and this is one thing that always lets me down and just feels a bit crummy, ya know.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2015, 03:23:25 PM »

You too? It seemed as if we were having some kind of contest... .

Me: " I was up all night with the kids, I'm tired"

Pipe Dream Response: " sorry honey, I'll do the dishes tonight"

His response " Well who sleeps more- you or me? " ( he gets up early so overall he wins)

Me: " I had a hard day at work"

Pipe Dream Response: " sorry honey, I'll do the dishes tonight"

His response: "I work longer hours than you."



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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2015, 04:07:12 PM »

I have to tell you how weird this is. My H has STARTED doing the dishes. He completely withdrew any affection about three months ago, but has started doing ALL of the things I ever asked him to do before without being asked. So I can thank him for it, but I can't give him a hug or kiss or any affection of any kind for his new found consideration.

What kind of weird is THAT?
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Cloudy Days
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2015, 09:32:15 AM »

I have to tell you how weird this is. My H has STARTED doing the dishes. He completely withdrew any affection about three months ago, but has started doing ALL of the things I ever asked him to do before without being asked. So I can thank him for it, but I can't give him a hug or kiss or any affection of any kind for his new found consideration.

What kind of weird is THAT?

quite weird, my husband would want all the praises in the world if he actually did the dishes. He does do the laundry most of the time, although he has been slacking lately. But the dishes seem like a foreign language to him. He's done them once for my Birthday a few years back and I never heard the end of it.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2015, 10:14:01 AM »

quite weird, my husband would want all the praises in the world if he actually did the dishes. He does do the laundry most of the time, although he has been slacking lately. But the dishes seem like a foreign language to him. He's done them once for my Birthday a few years back and I never heard the end of it.

I have gotten to a point where I despise the thought of my husband doing dishes. He doesn't know how to do them. I am serious. The few times that he has done them, they have come out dirty. I ended up having to rewash most of them. The funniest part of it is that his mother said that he couldn't do dishes as a kid because he couldn't get them clean. I don't buy that but whatever. I gave up that fight a long time ago. Now, all I ask is that he empty the dishwasher. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn't. I have gotten way better at waiting things out. It has almost become a form of cheap entertainment for me.

And the praises for doing stuff. . .my pipe dream is that he would STOP calling attention to all of the things that he does. I want him to do something without announcing "I washed a load of clothes. I changed the cat boxes." Or whatever it is that he did. I do all kinds of stuff and I don't go around announcing it and wanting praise or thanks or anything else.
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2015, 10:52:07 AM »

And the praises for doing stuff. . .my pipe dream is that he would STOP calling attention to all of the things that he does. I want him to do something without announcing "I washed a load of clothes. I changed the cat boxes." Or whatever it is that he did. I do all kinds of stuff and I don't go around announcing it and wanting praise or thanks or anything else.

Mine has very few chores (mowing a small lawn, taking two garbage cans and recycling to the dump, maintaining the pool) which are exclusively his and when he does them (finally), you'd think he'd dug 100 feet of four foot trenches in the heat of a blazing summer sun.

My pipe dream is to get acknowledgment for all that I do.
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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2015, 01:04:11 PM »

My pipedream would be that he'd go back to the man he pretended to be before we got married. A much more realistic pipe dream would be a conversation that doesn't de-escalate. I'd love to be able to communicate with him without my words being twisted and misinterpreted. He's had enough DBT, and it was addressed in my presence with his normal T, about asking for clarification, and choosing to just believe what I say, but he still struggles with this. Or maybe it's not a struggle, but a deliberate choice, because while I see improvements in other areas, this one is still a huge issue.

Yeah, of all the BPD traits, the utter lack of being able to communicate with him is hardest for me.
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Jessica84
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« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2015, 09:41:20 PM »

I get most of my needs filled through work, hobbies, friends, family... .but I also have needs a romantic relationship typically meets - like being able to express love and feel it in return too - outside of the bedroom! My pipe dream is to be able to say "I love you" without hearing "Why?" and a laundry list of all the reasons I shouldn't... .usually followed by some major push/pull or erratic behaviors... .Why can't he trust that I love him without constantly testing me?

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« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2015, 10:46:42 PM »

My pipe dream is to be able to say "I love you" without hearing "Why?" and a laundry list of all the reasons I shouldn't... .

Ugh! DW does the exact same thing. So frustrating.

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earthgirl
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2015, 10:47:15 PM »

My pipedream would be that he'd go back to the man he pretended to be before we got married.

This brought tears to my eyes.  I mourn that man in my life.  :)aily.  I know he isn't coming back, but I still think about him.  The saddest part of all is, I still see that man occasionally -- interacting with other people, not me.

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« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2015, 11:58:26 PM »

My pipe dream is to feel emotionally safe in my home.  At the moment, I am because we are doing a weird sort of separation in which we take turns, a week at a time, in our home and a rented room in another home.  This gives us both the comfort and privacy of our home for half the time and our daughter to be able to stay in our home, always with one parent here.  It's been not quite 6 weeks since I insisted on this to give me (and him too) time and space to heal from years of triggering each other.  About once a week we meet for coffee to connect and some weekends, we actually have a date night.  Strangely enough, it's been amazing and I hope to continue this for a few months at least while he heads into therapy (hopefully DBT), takes CBT classes and attends anger management sessions. 

I have learned to get most of my needs met from elsewhere over the past few years, but being emotionally safe in my home is one need that if we are to remain married, is non negoatiable. 

As an aside, for most of the past decade, he did maybe 5% of the household chores and did what some of you describe... .crowing about his accomplishments in the craziest of ways.  Like, he'd sweep the floor, leaving the pile of swept debris in a corner with the broom and dustpan out while talking about how he "'cleaned the whole house". Grr.  And a couple years ago I found out he was telling his extended family how HE was doing all the work around the house while I sat on my a$$ all day.  WHAAAAAAT?  Thankfully, his MIL knew the truth and told me what was being said.  He admitted telling them that.  Since things blew up last year and I started to seriously pull away and gave him a final chance to get help, he started doing his share of housework.  I didn't expect it to last, but it has. Progress!
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« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2015, 01:38:43 AM »

My pipedream would be that he'd go back to the man he pretended to be before we got married.

This brought tears to my eyes.  I mourn that man in my life.  :)aily.  I know he isn't coming back, but I still think about him.  The saddest part of all is, I still see that man occasionally -- interacting with other people, not me.

I'm with you both. It feels so much better to know I'm not the only one this happened to. I feel so much less insane.
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« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2015, 05:45:45 AM »

My pipe dream is not based on specific issues rather my feelings. If I get the feeling I dont need to post here anymore, then it means BPD is not affecting my life anymore Smiling (click to insert in post)

Meanwhile achieving pipe dreams is not the be all and end all of everything, so I come here to make my journey smoother, and help out others in the process.

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« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2015, 06:06:47 AM »

"This brought tears to my eyes.  I mourn that man in my life.  Daily.  I know he isn't coming back, but I still think about him.  The saddest part of all is, I still see that man occasionally -- interacting with other people, not me. "


It did. I used to wonder why all his friends and colleagues got to see that man, and I didn't. I wondered why, until I realized that the man I married is the one I see. The other is - some real, some constructed, - who he allows others to see, this idealized version of himself.

I used to wish he's speak heart to heart with me, so I could know who he was. Then, I realized during one of his dysregulations, where he was accusing me, raging at me, that this was the heart to heart talk I was seeking. This was the painful feelings inside of him, the part he wouldn't allow others to see.

My H is both, the man I married and the man that is hidden. I figured the best I could do for him was stay calm and detached during the storm, and accept that he is all of these things.

But hey, we can pipe dream anyway.
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« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2015, 06:14:33 AM »

Notwendy, so true... .

It is always a competition and all I need is some validation... .

My pipe dream... .I ask how his day was, which his he only to happy to share with me... .then, afterwards. he actually asks me how mine was... .

Never happens... .

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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2015, 09:26:10 AM »

My pipedream would be that he'd go back to the man he pretended to be before we got married.

This brought tears to my eyes.  I mourn that man in my life.  :)aily.  I know he isn't coming back, but I still think about him.  The saddest part of all is, I still see that man occasionally -- interacting with other people, not me.

I'm with you both. It feels so much better to know I'm not the only one this happened to. I feel so much less insane.

Add me to the list too.
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« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2015, 09:30:17 AM »

Notwendy, so true... .

It is always a competition and all I need is some validation... .

My pipe dream... .I ask how his day was, which his he only to happy to share with me... .then, afterwards. he actually asks me how mine was... .

Never happens... .

My T doesn't like to separate PDs into discrete categories; she says there's typically overlap. Narcissism and BPD seem often to be co-morbid.

I'll add to this comment about asking how the day went: my husband constantly complains about some aches/pains and I'll ask him how he feels. Does he ever ask me, even when he knows I've injured myself?

It's like they don't give a sh!t about anyone but themselves.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2015, 09:32:36 AM »

My pipe dream is not based on specific issues rather my feelings. If I get the feeling I dont need to post here anymore, then it means BPD is not affecting my life anymore Smiling (click to insert in post)

Meanwhile achieving pipe dreams is not the be all and end all of everything, so I come here to make my journey smoother, and help out others in the process.

I wish you the best, Waverider and I know that you are anticipating your upcoming marriage. I so appreciate your pithy comments. Your words have helped me more than you'll ever know.   
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2015, 12:26:17 PM »

"This brought tears to my eyes.  I mourn that man in my life.  Daily.  I know he isn't coming back, but I still think about him.  The saddest part of all is, I still see that man occasionally -- interacting with other people, not me. "


It did. I used to wonder why all his friends and colleagues got to see that man, and I didn't. I wondered why, until I realized that the man I married is the one I see. The other is - some real, some constructed, - who he allows others to see, this idealized version of himself.

I used to wish he's speak heart to heart with me, so I could know who he was. Then, I realized during one of his dysregulations, where he was accusing me, raging at me, that this was the heart to heart talk I was seeking. This was the painful feelings inside of him, the part he wouldn't allow others to see.

My H is both, the man I married and the man that is hidden. I figured the best I could do for him was stay calm and detached during the storm, and accept that he is all of these things.

But hey, we can pipe dream anyway.

Wendy, this is beautifully said.  I will come back to this, I know.  (Can't write it down in a notebook or anything.  I know I don't have to explain why here!  Smiling (click to insert in post))
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