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Author Topic: Standing Firm In Her Raging Storm...  (Read 1053 times)
MaroonLiquid
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« on: May 06, 2015, 08:50:41 AM »

Here is my previous thread... .https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=275922.0

My "party line" statements had a recommended usage model, which perhaps I didn't make clear:

If she brings up finance/divorce/other crap, and projects crap onto you. (you don't see her kids events... .because she doesn't tell you, and she leaves that out.)... .here is the program:

Tell your truth. ONCE. Then stop talking about it. Hang up or go home if you have to; you probably will at first. (That is how you don't take the bait!)

Your goal is NOT to convince her of anything... .other than that you won't get into an argument over it with her, and that you don't buy her stated positions. If you try to convince her any of these things... .you lose... .badly.

The more consistent you are, the sooner she will give up on picking these fights with you--she will realize that it is the same as hanging up on you when she turns this into a fight, and it doesn't get her anything she wants.

Most of the time I am very good at bypassing these things now.  She knows how/when to push my buttons and that is very frustrating at times.  I have a hard time trying not to reason with the unreasonable when I am triggered.  

What Grey Kitty says^^^ State your position once and only once. (This does not apply if she is already off the rails. There is no point in stating your opinion at all if that happens.)

Do NOT allow yourself to get sidelined onto another topic. This is the hardest thing to do. In the heat of the moment, you don't notice they just shifted gears because you get busy defending yourself. They KNOW this.

It is extremely hard to do, especially when I am trying to have a "big boy" conversation and all she is doing is trying to trigger me with crap, projections and bringing up what she knows I don't want to talk about.

The best thing you can do is just detach yourself from  what they say.  If you can pretend they are speaking about some third party, not you, then you can weigh the validity of what they are saying and respond accordingly. Basically, don't take it personally. It feels personal, but it really isn't. It's about them and their problems, not you. You have to decide what is best for you, and if you don't want to talk divorce with her, don't. Your life, your choice.

I am getting better at this, but it is still frustrating in the moment at times.  I know I'm human, can't be perfect and not trying to be.  I have a hard time with getting it inside that they believe their own lies at times.  The level of deception in their life at times is astounding.  Sometimes I feel like there is no depth that she'll stoop to remain in control and yet her life is out of control!
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2015, 01:14:53 PM »

Often the best thing you can do when triggered is get away, quickly. Sortof like the Hippocratic Oath: First do no harm.

I've gone out the door, trying not to shout and trying not to slam the door saying "If I stay here any longer, I'll say something I'll regret."

Try to be aware that your buttons are being pushed, and nothing good will come of it, and get out/hang up... .before you explode like a JADEing volcano   
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« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2015, 02:02:46 PM »

Try to be aware that your buttons are being pushed, and nothing good will come of it, and get out/hang up... .before you explode like a JADEing volcano   

Like a JADEing volcano. I resemble that phrase so much.
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2015, 05:09:53 PM »

Try to be aware that your buttons are being pushed, and nothing good will come of it, and get out/hang up... .before you explode like a JADEing volcano  

Like a JADEing volcano. I resemble that phrase so much.

Exactly the way I used to be, especially before I found this place.  It takes a lot of self control and restraint to not be.  Amazing how when you don't know what the deal is with them, you think they will "wake up" and stop so you keep throwing truth at them.  I used to think to myself, "You know the effing truth so why the heck won't you just admit it?"  One realization I have come to is that they push us (slowly and over a long period of time) to lose control so that they can blame us for everything they are guilty of (my wife accusing me of throwing her up against a wall when it was her who punched me in the face and I pushed her away to get her off of me and claimed that she did it in self defense  ) .  That way they can always claim victim status, it's always someone else's fault and keeps them from accepting any responsibility.  Then they can say, "You weren't the person I thought you were." when in actuality it's them who put up the facade.

My wife and I haven't spoken on text since our convo the other day except yesterday I asked if our daughter wanted to play in a pick up game with my other daughters.  We haven't talked at all today and my ex wife said she was meeting my wife her to get our daughter to Ride to practice with them.  I find that hilarious because she hates my ex wife.  Weird... .
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2015, 10:39:07 PM »

The double-standard in pwBPD is ridiculous.  At the end of softball practice tonight, my wife shows up to pick up our daughter and gets out of the car.  She goes out of her way to speak to my son and my ex-wife (who she has hated for mistreating me... .go figure), but yet doesn't speak to me.  As I was leaving, I said bye to my kids and my wife's kids.  As I was walking off (I didn't speak to her as she hasn't spoken to me), she turned and yelled, "Seriously?" in front of other parents.  I turned and looked, but I didn't say anything and walked to my car.  It's nuts how she can not speak to me and yet I don't and I'm the bad guy... .
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2015, 11:02:45 PM »

Well, at least she spoke to you. 
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2015, 11:50:16 PM »

Well, at least she spoke to you. 

Right?   
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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2015, 07:36:42 AM »

 

Question:  What is the divorce timeline?  Assuming she is telling her lawyer to press ahead.  Assuming you keep playing ball.

Here is the thing... .if the timeline is getting close to being over.  Or a major milestone coming up... .that could be one of the triggers.

Just a thought... .


FF
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2015, 08:10:19 AM »

Question:  What is the divorce timeline? 

Well, she texted the day before yesterday and said she was going to tell her lawyer to finalize the decree, which I didn't respond to.  First, I think she was trying to bait me.  Second, I would have to agree to the decree.  When I don't we would have to go to mediation. 

Assuming she is telling her lawyer to press ahead.  Assuming you keep playing ball.

Here is the thing... .if the timeline is getting close to being over.  Or a major milestone coming up... .that could be one of the triggers.

Just a thought... .


FF

     That could be true.  Technically, if we were to "come to an agreement" (which I don't agree), the divorce "COULD" be final on the 22nd.  She knows if I don't agree, it will have to go to mediation which will cost her money.  It has crossed my mind that she may be starting to feel the pressure and weight of all this.  She doesn't see me down in the dumps or beside myself.  Instead, I'm smiling and not playing her game.  Our daughters will be playing softball the whole summer together, and then will play on my select team together after All-Stars.     

     I am sure she is surprised I've dug my heels in this long.  Knowing how much I've hung in and didn't want a divorce, I think she thought I would fold by now and give in to whatever her demands were.  In that conversation on the phone the other day, she said, "You haven't once in the last 10 months asked what you could do to fix our relationship."  That comment has stuck with me because it seems she is really bothered that I haven't groveled and begged for her back.  I haven't given her that power.  At first, I thought to myself, "I'm the one doing the trying and you are doing the breaking."  I responded with, "Ok, what can I do to fix our relationship?"  She responded, "It's too late."  NO WIN... .Regardless, I'm still at peace.  She also hates it when I don't speak to her.  She HATES it.
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« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2015, 08:42:26 AM »

Congratulations for keeping your dignity intact. It is incredibly challenging to not take the bait. And yes the BPD double standard is mind-boggling!
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2015, 09:03:06 AM »

Congratulations for keeping your dignity intact. It is incredibly challenging to not take the bait. And yes the BPD double standard is mind-boggling!

Thanks!  It's been hard at times.  Sometimes I want to lash out, but don't.  Last night after she said, "Seriously?", I started to feel bad for not saying, "Hello" to her in the first place, but said to myself, "Wait a minute!  She expected me to do what she was unwilling to.  Why should I always be the first to say anything?"  Did I say hello to the kids?  Yes, because I want them to know I love them, but I don't owe her anything and I don't deserve to be ignored either.  Her favorite saying is, "You expect of others what you are unwilling to do."  Amazing how that is about herself.
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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2015, 11:58:02 AM »

I am feeling a little anxiety today.  I don't know why except maybe there is some guilt there that I feel about last night.  Obviously she was not happy that I didn't say bye to her.  I'm thinking I did it in part to get back at her for ignoring me, as well as to show her that 2 can play that game.  I guess that's pretty childish for stooping to her level.  I'm just trying to sit with it, but also hate feeling like I may have hurt her.  I also am trying to figure out if it is bothering me because she made a big deal out of it in front of others (making me look bad) when I didn't say a word to her aout ignoring me.
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« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2015, 10:26:09 AM »

Last night, after our game, my wife and I were talking and she was playfully flirting with me when I was trying to get a cupcake out of a box.  It was pleasant and no conrontation.  I texted my wife this morning to see if she wanted to ride to the softball tournament together... .ANNNNND... .No response... .
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« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2015, 10:53:35 AM »

Do you ever feel that this pattern is the essence of your relationship with your wife? (Kind of like a short, "haiku" representation of the dynamics you've experienced throughout the marriage?)

Maybe all she can offer you is these short bursts of pleasant interaction.

What if you never followed up by proposing more interaction? Would that give her a feeling of control and comfort?

What if her kids were grown and living independently? (Just asking because this will happen in a few years, won't it?) Do you think there could be a future for the two of you in a time beyond the present frustrating pattern?
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2015, 04:16:52 PM »

I've got a thought for you about divorce... .

She's mostly using it as a game to get your goat.

She may actually get divorced for that reason, expecting you to 'blink' first.

Anyhow... .a possible solution is to believe what her lawyer sends you, and not what she tells you in person about divorce. (No need to tell her this... .just don't do much of anything to act on her words not through the lawyer)

What do you think?
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« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2015, 07:54:08 AM »




Would it work for him to stop discussing the divorce altogether with her?

"My lawyer has advised me to have all legal discussions flow through him... ."


Boy... .if you wanted to kick it up a notch... .

"The divorce is getting in the way of our r/s... .I feel bad about it.  All divorce issues will need to be sent through my lawyer... ."

That's a bit more satisfying... .but I would bet it would be triggering for her.

Hmm... .

FF

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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2015, 07:55:26 AM »

 

How much has actually been sent to you from her lawyer?

How much has your lawyer actually sent hers... .?

Just trying to get an idea of how much is talk... .and how much actual action there has been.

FF
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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2015, 09:22:28 AM »

Do you ever feel that this pattern is the essence of your relationship with your wife? (Kind of like a short, "haiku" representation of the dynamics you've experienced throughout the marriage?)

Maybe all she can offer you is these short bursts of pleasant interaction.

I'm starting to think at this time, maybe that is all she can give.  She is on one end of the spectrum with me all the time.  The more and more I see it, the more I understand the depth of her unhelathiness.  That is why I'm so much more even keel in my emotions now because I see it isn't my issue... .

What if you never followed up by proposing more interaction?

Do you mean never starting ANY interaction with her or do you mean romantic interaction.

Would that give her a feeling of control and comfort?

Probably... .She is definitely a control freak!

What if her kids were grown and living independently? (Just asking because this will happen in a few years, won't it?) Do you think there could be a future for the two of you in a time beyond the present frustrating pattern?

Funny you should ask this.  Her oldest son (turns 18 in July and will be a senior next year) is nowhere near ready to live on his own and is already planning to go to Community College for 2 years and live at home.  Her oldest daughter wants to "move out of state" and go to college.  She wants to "be famous".  She is a brilliant kid, but I see this as her wanting to get away from her mom.  I get it, but it scares me as her mom has drilled it in to them by her behavior that they can't trust men.  One thing I find a little strange is the kids are starting to take turns sleeping in her bed with her.  I know this is not uncommon for pwBPD, but that is unhealthy.  I just don't even say anything.  To actually answer the question, I think there could be a future outside this pattern.  

I've got a thought for you about divorce... .

She's mostly using it as a game to get your goat.

She may actually get divorced for that reason, expecting you to 'blink' first.

Anyhow... .a possible solution is to believe what her lawyer sends you, and not what she tells you in person about divorce. (No need to tell her this... .just don't do much of anything to act on her words not through the lawyer)

What do you think?

That is basically the tactic I'm taking.  Most of her "pointed" stuff is to get a rise out of me, which I don't let her have that.  It's weird, when she says it, it's almost like I don't care, or that I'm hearing it from a completely different person.

    This weekend was rather interesting at times... .Our girls had an All-Star softball tournament and took 2nd place.  I'm not coaching this team as I am starting a select team right after All-Stars is over.  Friday, we had some exhibition games and her and I chatted and sat together.  She told me that our daughter wasn't sure she was going to play for my select team.     Been down this road before.  I asked her why.  She said because you are "too hard on the girls" and it "isn't fun".  Basically, our daughter is mad because I hold my players accountable for their behavior.  I told her, "I won't apologize for having high standards for my players.  They either play at a high level or I will replace them with someone who will.  My goal is to have them play at the college level if that is what they want (which they have all expressed it), but it will require them to be dedicated."  Our daughter doesn't like to be held to the same high standards and blames everyone else for her issues (starting to be just like her mom).  Later in the weekend I would be validated and will explain in a moment.  We shared some food and after the two games I went back to my apartment.  She texted and asked if I could pick up her youngest and another girl on the team and take them to the field with me as she had to take the middle daughter to a college prep testing center and would come to the field after the game.  I told her that wasn't a problem.  

    First, I went to my son's baseball game first and then my oldest daughter rode with us.  Saturday was a relatively good day.  We sat together during the games, talked and she told me she "is making her oldest son go live with his dad."     .  Knowing that would never happen (can't even get a hold of him and he doesn't call them), I asked her what happened and validated some of her feelings regarding his behavior.  I asked if she wanted to get some dinner on the way home and she said, "Are you going to sign the divorce decree?"  I thought, "Where TF did that come from?"  I'm learning that 2+2=5 to them.  Anyway, I didn't even respond and concentrated on "scoring" the game.  She said, "Why won't you talk about the divorce?"  I said, "I won't talk about it here" and changed the subject.  She never brought it up again.  As I was saying about our daughter and her "possibly not playing for me", here is where I was validated.  In the games the previous night, our daughter struck out twice.  In the games this day, she struck out twice again (leaving a total of 7 runners on base in six games) and barely played and my oldest played the position that her youngest thinks "is hers" (1st base).  This was interesting.  Her daughter sat the four "bracket" games while my oldest played brilliantly at first (her favorite position, second is pitcher) and my wife asked me, "Why do you think our daughter is on the bench (keep in mind my youngest has barely gotten to play either but she is 11 playing with a bunch of 12-13 year olds)?"  I said, "Truthfully, she plays with no sense of urgency, no hustle, a sense of entitlement that positions are "hers", doesn't practice hard, and doesn't want to put in the work."  You should have seen her face!   Smiling (click to insert in post)  She just nodded her head and said, "thank you for telling me that."  I think she was in a place that she could receive it because a different coach was doing this and not her dad/coach and could no longer blame me.  I told her that I've said before that my oldest plays a heck of a first base and she said, "Yes she does.  I had just never seen her play there before."  (not true, my daughter played there in All-Stars last year).  Our daughter asked on the way home why she isn't playing.  My wife flat out was honest with her.  I was shocked!  She told our daughter on the way home that her sister out hustles her, outplays her, and she strikes out everytime at the plate.  If she wasn't going to put in more effort, then why does she expect to be on the field?"  The girls won their first two games and didn't have to play again till yesterday morning in the semis and we agreed to ride together.  

    The next morning, I went to her house so we could ride together and my wife asked me, "What do you think about me being a dugout assistant for the select team?"  I said, "That's an interesting thought.  I'm not totally opposed to it.  We can definitely discuss it."  We got to the fields and we set up camp.  After my assistant and I warmed the girls up to get ready to play, we watched their first game.  Again, her daughter was sitting the bench.  :)uring the first game, my wife yelled at our daughter when she struck out looking with the bases loaded and 2 outs.  She said, "Get the d&mn bat off the shoulder!  I'm tired of that crap!"  In her defense, I'm tired of it too, but I realize why she does it.  If she strikes out looking, she can blame the umps and say it was a bad call where if she swings and misses, it's on her.     I tapped her on the back because I could tell it was going bad if I didn't.  She sat down and was steaming.  I think she is starting to realize that I'm not the problem regarding our daughter.  I didn't say anything.  A few minutes later, she raised her voice to me and I calmly said, ":)o not speak to me that way."  She didn't do it again.  We got home and then we ate dinner.  She was looking at her Facebook page and wanted to "show me something".  She passed over her name and she had taken my last name off of her page.  She did it twice trying to bait me and I didn't bite.  I acted like I didn't notice.  We watched TV together in the living room and held each other.  It got late and I went home and went to bed.  All in all, it was a pretty good weekend.

How much has actually been sent to you from her lawyer?

How much has your lawyer actually sent hers... .?

Just trying to get an idea of how much is talk... .and how much actual action there has been.

FF

I have gotten nothing else from her lawyer and therefore I have no sense of urgency about this thing at all... .
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« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2015, 09:38:49 AM »

She said, "Why won't you talk about the divorce?"  I said, "I won't talk about it here" and changed the subject.  She never brought it up again.  

High five... .fist bump... .and a big smack on your rear!   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  


I think this works... .keep it up.

The issue is... .you need to come up with answer... .for when she asks properly... ."where can we speak about it... .?"

If she is mean about asking... .she doesn't need an answer.

FF
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« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2015, 12:54:36 PM »

If she is mean about asking... .she doesn't need an answer.

FF

That's basically all it ever is.  BAIT.  This fish doesn't bite... .

What I found funny yesterday is she "filed for divorce", but asked me what I thought about her being a dugout assistant on my select team.  It's obvious they don't think things through and funny how their minds work.  I laughed thinking about the possibility of both of those scenarios actually happening and me dating someone else at some point and them coming to the games.  No, I'm not thinking of dating anyone else (don't want anyone else), but just the possibility.  Could you imagine?   Smiling (click to insert in post) Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) 
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« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2015, 12:28:55 AM »

During the first game, my wife yelled at our daughter when she struck out looking with the bases loaded and 2 outs.  She said, "Get the d&mn bat off the shoulder!  I'm tired of that crap!"  In her defense, I'm tired of it too, but I realize why she does it.  If she strikes out looking, she can blame the umps and say it was a bad call where if she swings and misses, it's on her.   rolleyes  I tapped her on the back because I could tell it was going bad if I didn't.  She sat down and was steaming.

Maroon, this is a problem. Whether or not this daughter is not hustling or doing what you think she should be doing on the field, your wife is now projecting her anger that is not working with you onto your daughter. I have seen the results of this first hand and this is not what you want for your daughter.

I know it seems like you and your w are "on the same page" with this, but you aren't. I am assuming you would like to encourage your daughter to give some effort into softball (at least I hope you are). Your W is looking to tear your daughter down to make herself feel better. MOO, but do you WANT your daughter to go down the same path as her mother? This is how my H ended up like he is and why my S could end up there if I wasn't running interference.
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« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2015, 08:15:06 AM »

Maroon, this is a problem. Whether or not this daughter is not hustling or doing what you think she should be doing on the field, your wife is now projecting her anger that is not working with you onto your daughter. I have seen the results of this first hand and this is not what you want for your daughter.

I am with you on this, however, she isn't my biological daughter so under the circumstances, I can't do much.  I can encourage and support our daughter which I am doing and she has been much more receptive now that I am not her coach again until July or August.  Before All-Stars, I was to blame for our daughters unhappiness because I was "too hard on her".     They are seeing what happens when everyone on the team is an All-Star and not just 4-6 of the players.  My wife said last night that this is forcing our daughter to look at herself as the issue and can't put it on anyone else any longer.  My wife said that she sees what I have been trying to say for a while.  [/quote]
Your W is looking to tear your daughter down to make herself feel better.

I see what you mean.  

MOO, but do you WANT your daughter to go down the same path as her mother? This is how my H ended up like he is and why my S could end up there if I wasn't running interference.

I already see this to some degree, but unfortunately I can only do what I can do and control myself.
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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2015, 08:32:23 AM »

I'm learning how exhausting BPD must be for our SO... .It's exhausting for me!  After softball practice, I took my daughter back to her house and my wife and I had sex, then spent some time holding each other, talking about the kids and her wanting to be a "dugout mom" on my softball team and validated that and told her I thought she would be great at it.  She made the statement, "I don't want the kids to see us just as husband and wife, but as coaches."  I agreed and then BOOM!, she said, "So can we talk about the divorce for a moment?"  I didn't feel triggered, but thought "What the heck?"... .I said, "Sure."  I should have said, "No."  She said, "Can we agree on stuff so we can get this done?"  I said, "Help me to understand why you are in such a hurry to get this done.  I really don't understand"  She started talking about having to file a FAFSA form for financial aid for our son at the beginning of the year and with our incomes together, he wouldn't qualify.  I validated how hard that must be for her to worry about and that we both want him access to FA if he needs it.  Then it hit me.  Inside I was going, "     Are you effing kidding me?".  And then I said, "So let me see if I understand.  Are you divorcing me because our kids probably wouldn't qualify for financial aid with both of our incomes?"  I remember that she took those "financial freedom" classes and she met with a college prep counselor right before I got divorce papers.  I truly think I hit the nail on the head with this one because then she started to go into her "everything is my fault and why we are getting a divorce" mode.  She then said, "We are better as friends."  I said, "I don't think I could be friends with someone who divorces me because their kids don't qualify for FA by being married to me."  She said, "I'm divorcing you because blah blah blah blah blah... .I JADE'd some at this point and didn't really care.  Then she said, "Take our daughter off of your select team as she won't be playing with you."     When she realized she wasn't getting anywhere with me, she shut down and I left.  This morning, I texted to say good morning and she responded with a text about "finalizing the decree, and to either sign it or we go to mediation and would need to talk with her lawyer about this issue going forward".  I didn't respond... .
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2015, 08:41:04 AM »

 

Hang tough... .

Good job being self aware enough to look over things... .and understand what you should have said.

It's tough getting blindsided... .

I still get busted when it comes out of nowhere.

Such as... .when I posted on my wife's FB account for mothers day... .it came out of nowhere.  Luckily... .once I saw it was likely a ploy for a fight... .I just went about my business.

I hate this for you... .you are really trying... .doing the right thing... .and she is insisting on a dysfunctional path.

I also suspect... .hope... .you feel better for stating your truth.  About not being friends with someone who divorces over FA.  She heard you.

FF
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2015, 09:06:19 AM »

Hang tough... .

Good job being self aware enough to look over things... .and understand what you should have said.

It's tough getting blindsided... .

I still get busted when it comes out of nowhere.

it is tough.  It is exhausting actually.  

Such as... .when I posted on my wife's FB account for mothers day... .it came out of nowhere.  Luckily... .once I saw it was likely a ploy for a fight... .I just went about my business.

I'm usually pretty good now about avoiding these things.  Jabbing me this morning with the "finalizing the decree BS" was a ploy for a fight.  I'm not biting... .

I hate this for you... .you are really trying... .doing the right thing... .and she is insisting on a dysfunctional path.

Yeah, I don't get it.  I know I won't but it doesn't make it any easier.  I feel she knows her reasons for filing are ridiculous and therefore hits me with all the other excuses.  Watching someone you love willingly choose a dysfunctional path is hard.  :)o they ever see it and say, "What the hell am I doing?"

I also suspect... .hope... .you feel better for stating your truth.  About not being friends with someone who divorces over FA.  She heard you.

FF

I do.  I know I said it in a not so good tone, but I feel it needed to be said.  She clammed up before I left.  I'm sure she felt like I didn't understand, but I think I understand perfectly.  I also realize when she gets mad now, she talks about "finalizing the decree"... .  I guess she feels this is the last bit of leverage she has over me and feels she can dangle over my head.  She mentioned how our relationship is better for the simple fact that all of our stuff is separate.  She has nothing left... .This is it... .She knows I know he can't finalize anything without my approval and signature... .Her bluffs are so transparent... .
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« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2015, 11:06:18 AM »

 

Well... .I see a couple of decisions you have coming.

Next time she brings up divorce... .what do you do?

You've stated your truth... .from the reaction... .she heard you.  So... .do you feel the need to state it again? 

If so... .what will you say?

If you don't feel the need to state that again... .what will you say when she wants to finalize it again?

Be aware... .she will most likely use some sort of a ... ."wouldn't it be easier for us to decide... .minimize lawyer involvement... .costs... .etc etc... ."  It will be tempting to continue that conversation... ."explain" why you don't think it is easier.

It's not right or wrong to continue that conversation... .but... .given the patterns in your r/s... .what do you think the right answer is?

Reason for talking about this now... .she will blindside you with it... .after sex... .after a hug... .after a nice dinner... .a great family photo.

She will not agree she is blindsiding you... .it will "feel" appropriate to her... .and not to you.

 

Hang tough!
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« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2015, 11:56:56 AM »

Well... .I see a couple of decisions you have coming.

Next time she brings up divorce... .what do you do?

Try and change the subject... .

You've stated your truth... .from the reaction... .she heard you.  So... .do you feel the need to state it again? 

No... .

If you don't feel the need to state that again... .what will you say when she wants to finalize it again?

"Wife, I've already told you how I feel about this subject and change the subject or leave if that doesn't help.

Be aware... .she will most likely use some sort of a ... ."wouldn't it be easier for us to decide... .minimize lawyer involvement... .costs... .etc etc... ."  It will be tempting to continue that conversation... ."explain" why you don't think it is easier.

This is the tactic she started using last night... .Her deal was, "Why pay for mediation and waste money when we could work through it together?"  Inside I just  Smiling (click to insert in post)

It's not right or wrong to continue that conversation... .but... .given the patterns in your r/s... .what do you think the right answer is?

To not do it.

Reason for talking about this now... .she will blindside you with it... .after sex... .after a hug... .after a nice dinner... .a great family photo.

She will not agree she is blindsiding you... .it will "feel" appropriate to her... .and not to you.

 

Hang tough!

Is that to get me to dysregulate or part of the push/pull or both?  It's extremely frustrating.
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« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2015, 04:12:54 PM »

Try and change the subject... .

Ahh... .you need to spend some time with Yoda.

There is no try... .only do... .

FF
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« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2015, 05:58:20 PM »

I feel like I'm reading my future posts right now.
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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2015, 07:34:58 AM »

Try and change the subject... .

Ahh... .you need to spend some time with Yoda.

There is no try... .only do... .

FF

Smiling (click to insert in post)  Yes I do.  He would feel the disturbance in the force pretty quick... .Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I feel like I'm reading my future posts right now.

Sorry HMC... .I know what you mean.  I feel like I'm doing the right thing for myself, yet sometimes I ask myself if this is worth it.  I think she is.  She didn't ask to be mentally ill.  When her "reason" for divorce was spoken the other night, it broke my heart.  I realized that in her mind, she thinks it's perfectly logical to divorce your spouse so your child has easier access to financial aid.  Learning to detach with love is the hardest thing to learn in this whole process.  I have gotten soo much better and learn it's not personal.  The other night, it was almost like she wanted me to feel sorry for her because she has all this on her shoulders, yet it's her fault, staring her in the face, and yet takes no responsibility.
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2015, 04:04:34 PM »

My wife texts today and asks if I wanted to come over and take care of the IRS together and call them.  I said that I would and we decided to get some lunch before.  We had a good lunch and she invited me to the movies with them this evening and I agreed to go.  We were walking the dogs this afternoon and we stopped to give each other a kiss.  She said to me, "We have a weird relationship."  I asked her what she meant.  She said we are in the middle of a divorce.  I wasn't sure how to respond and said, "that doesn't mean my feelings for you have changed."  When I said that, she immediately changed the subject.  Thoughts on how to tackle statement if it comes up again? 
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« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2015, 11:21:27 PM »

  Thoughts on how to tackle statement if it comes up again? 

Very carefully!   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2015, 11:01:29 PM »

 Thoughts on how to tackle statement if it comes up again?  

Very carefully!   Smiling (click to insert in post)

I think I'm getting the ST again.  Earlier this evening, my son (6YO) wanted to stay over with me.  We went over to my wife's house to drop our daughter off as we were at the batting cages.  We hung out for a while and spent time together.  I noticed that my wife was on edge several times, nothing that was over the top, but still on edge.  Our son (17YO) wanted to run to the store.  I let my son stay with our daughters while we went.  We stopped to get a bite to eat and she offered to buy us something.  I said I didn't want anything as I was taking my son back to my place.  She seemed taken aback by that, but I didn't say anything.  We got back to her place and I told my son to get his shoes on.  When we left, she gave me one of those "side hugs".  We left and had to turn around shortly after to get his chocolate shake he left.  When we got back to pick it up, she said, "Why did you leave so quick?"  I told her that it wasn't personal and needed to get my son home.  She said, "No problem I just offered so you didn't have to leave so soon.  She closed the door and walked inside.  Honestly, I don't know the answer to that myself.  I know that I am a little low on cash, but have never turned down a meal, especially with my wife. I am starting to think it is two-fold.  First, she seemed on edge throughout the night, even calling me down a couple of times.  Second, I was dealing with something myself and didn't want to put it on her.  I made the choice to leave and could see how I triggered something in her.  When I got home I texted (she asked me to) her to no response.  I used SET to apologize that I left so abruptly and asked forgiveness.  Still no response.   . Oh well.  I'll see her tomorrow for a softball function.
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2015, 07:51:10 AM »

Either the ST from my wife lifted yesterday when I didn't call or text or she realized I had a lot of things on my mind, especially with my grandmother who isn't well.  My wife called out of the blue like nothing happened yesterday and invited me over.  We watched some stuff on TV, she asked me about the family meeting about my grandmother, we had dinner and ended up spending the night together.  It was a good night. 
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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2015, 11:18:19 PM »

Well, my wife dysregulated tonight even to the point of denting the hood on my car with a bat.  I stayed calm through the entire thing.  We were having a discussion about taxes and everything was calm and we were discussing options.  Then she brought up something completely ridiculous and I did my very best to stay calm, even diverting the subject.  I said that when we call the IRS about our taxes in the next day or so, we need to ask them about something in particular.  She said, "I tell you what, why don't you pay the tax debt until I pay my 401k loan and then I'll help you pay the taxes off."  I simply said, "I don't agree to that.  As I said last week, we were paid back for that loan, regardless of whether we actually paid it back or spent it.  Now, let's get back to the IRS debt."  She said, "No, let's talk about this."  I said, "Were here to talk about the taxes."  She started raising her voice and said, "No we need to resolve this." I said, "Again, we have already discussed this, so if we can't go back to talking about the taxes, then I'm going to go since this is leading nowhere good and we can discuss this another time."  And then she grabbed my cell phone out of my hand and got up from the bed.  I simply said repeatedly and very calmly, "Wife, please give me my phone back."  She said, "No, not until we resolve these things."  I responded with, "I'm not going to resolve them with someone who repeatedly takes things from me.  I mean you still won't give me my laptop back."  She said, "Nope, I won't."  I grabbed her iPad off the bed and said, "When you can give me my phone back, then you can have this."  She said, "So you'll steal from me?"  I said, "I'm not stealing, I'm just not going to put up with you taking my things anymore."  She told me to get out of her house, and I said, "Not until I get my phone back."  I've asked you repeatedly, and very nicely to give it back and you refuse."  She said, "dont raise your voice to me with our son in the next room."  I said, "I am not raising my voice, I'm simply asking for my phone back and you continue to play this game.  I will be glad to discuss things when we're calm."  She said, "No, you just want to skirt any responsibility.  Remember, I have an attorney and you will be on the hook for all of our tax debt."  I said very calmly, "Wife, we are both on the hook for our tax debt."  Finally she gave me my phone in exchange for the iPad and she started pushing me out of the house.  I grabbed my change on her bedside table and she yelled, "You're going to steal change from a single woman?"  I said, "This is my change I left here last night and you know that."  I grabbed my keys and she pushed me out the door and said, ":)on't ever come here again."  I started to walk to my car and she came out and said, "I need our daughters softball gear."  I opened my trunk and she started pulling things out.  I gave her what was theirs and she took a bat to my tail light (didn't break it).  I told her, "Wife, you need to calm down or I will call the police."  She said, "What, are you going to tell them you owe me money?  I'm sure they would love to hear that!"  I said, "No, I'll tell them you are vandalizing my car. And you are out of control"  I started to get in my car and she hit my front tail light (again, didn't break it), then hit my hood and dented it.  Crazy.  i was proud of myself for staying calm, never raising my voice, and speaking truth in the middle of it where our son could hear.  It still amazes me how one minute they are fine and the next they are out of freaking control.  I did nothing except hold a boundary, try to divert the conversation, and it didn't help.  I will not backdown and she is starting to realize it.
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« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2015, 07:00:30 AM »

 

 

Hey... .what has changed that you guys are "discussing" taxes again... .?  I though that got settled... .that you were each doing your own side of things... .or discussing those issues through attorneys?

OK... .wow... .sucky situation. 

While it would seem that the mutual hostage taking... .your phone... .her ipad (or whatever it was) seems to have been effective... .I'm not sure it is the best thing to do... .or "emotionally healthy".

At first blush... .it appears that you are "playing her game"... ."fighting fire with fire"... .

Not sure if that is right way to go... .

What are you planning on doing about dent?

While it is still fresh... .I challenge you to think through things... .to look for turning points.  What could be done differently.  Not saying any of this that you did was wrong... .more me thinking that if faced with something in future... .what will you do?

Hang tough... .

FF
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« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2015, 07:25:52 AM »

Hi Maroon, yuck, sorry to hear things turned so volatile.

Then she brought up something completely ridiculous and I did my very best to stay calm, even diverting the subject.  I said that when we call the IRS about our taxes in the next day or so, we need to ask them about something in particular.  She said, "I tell you what, why don't you pay the tax debt until I pay my 401k loan and then I'll help you pay the taxes off."  I simply said, "I don't agree to that.  As I said last week, we were paid back for that loan, regardless of whether we actually paid it back or spent it.  Now, let's get back to the IRS debt."  She said, "No, let's talk about this."  I said, "Were here to talk about the taxes."  She started raising her voice and said, "No we need to resolve this." I said, "Again, we have already discussed this, so if we can't go back to talking about the taxes, then I'm going to go since this is leading nowhere good and we can discuss this another time." 

I'd like to have a better understanding of this 401k business... .

Did you have a part in spending the payback for the loan?  :)id you benefit in any way?  :)id the two of you discuss at the time a plan for how the 401k loan would be paid back and she totally dropped the ball?

The way you're both going about it doesn't seem to be working very well... . Sounds like a lot of resentment and frustration

Have these discussions ever gone over well or truly been resolved?  I'm trying to think of how this could be resolved once and for all; any ideas come to mind?
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2015, 07:43:38 AM »

 

OH... .yeah... .meant to say that you have already explained your stance on 401... .why explain it further?

JADE alert... .

FF
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2015, 10:30:26 AM »

 

Hey... .what has changed that you guys are "discussing" taxes again... .?  I though that got settled... .that you were each doing your own side of things... .or discussing those issues through attorneys?

We were not discussing filing, we were discussing how to handle paying back what we owe collectively to them.  I was telling her the options that we had that were given to me by the IRS and how to go about them.

OK... .wow... .sucky situation. 

While it would seem that the mutual hostage taking... .your phone... .her ipad (or whatever it was) seems to have been effective... .I'm not sure it is the best thing to do... .or "emotionally healthy".

At first blush... .it appears that you are "playing her game"... ."fighting fire with fire"... .

Not sure if that is right way to go... .

In the moment, I was done being stolen from.  I did what I had to do.  I know it seems stooping to her level, but I looked at it as she saw me standing up for myself and not allowing her that control.  In that moment, I could see if I didn't I probably wouldn't have gotten my phone back. 

What are you planning on doing about dent?

Not sure what to do... .

While it is still fresh... .I challenge you to think through things... .to look for turning points.  What could be done differently.  Not saying any of this that you did was wrong... .more me thinking that if faced with something in future... .what will you do?

Hang tough... .

FF

Not sure I could have done things any differently.  Picking up her iPad as leverage is a point of debate, but other than that, I tried to leave, say we can talk about this when things calm down.  She tried to keep that from happening including accusing me of not resolving anything because I was a coward and a piece of $hit.  I stayed extremely calm the whole time.  She was trying to bait me and I never took it.  It started when she was talking to our son (17YO) because he was being picked on at school yesterday and wasn't handling thi

Let me explain something about the 401k loan.  First, my wife is trying anything she can to keep me embroiled in a fight.  Now, as far as the payback, we spent it to pay bills among other things.  What she is also trying to do with this "401k" loan is "stack the deck" against me. She understands she has EVERYTHING of value from our marriage (got everything when she kicked me out and didn't allow me to get anything, plus she has the w/d that she will have to pay for) and will have to give up quite a bit, so she is trying to use anything she can to counter that.  That's why she is mad because she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2015, 11:23:51 AM »

Let me explain something about the 401k loan.  First, my wife is trying anything she can to keep me embroiled in a fight.  Now, as far as the payback, we spent it to pay bills among other things. 

Whose bills?

She understands she has EVERYTHING of value from our marriage (got everything when she kicked me out and didn't allow me to get anything, plus she has the w/d that she will have to pay for) and will have to give up quite a bit, so she is trying to use anything she can to counter that.  That's why she is mad because she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

And where are you in all of this?
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2015, 11:45:38 AM »

Let me explain something about the 401k loan.  First, my wife is trying anything she can to keep me embroiled in a fight.  Now, as far as the payback, we spent it to pay bills among other things.  

Whose bills?

She understands she has EVERYTHING of value from our marriage (got everything when she kicked me out and didn't allow me to get anything, plus she has the w/d that she will have to pay for) and will have to give up quite a bit, so she is trying to use anything she can to counter that.  That's why she is mad because she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

And where are you in all of this?

Our bills as a family.  This was done like three years ago.  This wasn't done in the last year or anything.

I've talked with a lawyer and getting counsel.  He thinks she's playing games but has a gameplan.

FF, I told her we had already discussed it and held that boundary.  She  was pushing it.  I tried and changed the subject.  When I realized it started to go south, That is when I said we would talk about it later and tried to leave and she grabbed my phone.
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« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2015, 11:56:12 AM »

We were not discussing filing, we were discussing how to handle paying back what we owe collectively to them.  I was telling her the options that we had that were given to me by the IRS and how to go about them.

Our bills as a family.  This was done like three years ago.  This wasn't done in the last year or anything.

Would "bills as a family" be considered "own collectively"?  You think she should be held solely responsible for the 401k loan and half the taxes, is this correct?

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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2015, 12:23:32 PM »

We were not discussing filing, we were discussing how to handle paying back what we owe collectively to them.  I was telling her the options that we had that were given to me by the IRS and how to go about them.

Our bills as a family.  This was done like three years ago.  This wasn't done in the last year or anything.

Would "bills as a family" be considered "own collectively"?  You think she should be held solely responsible for the 401k loan and half the taxes, is this correct?

Let me clarify the 401k loan.  We used the 401k loan to start a business.  We made enough money from that business to get all our money back we paid to start it.  Not only that, we sold the business and received almost all the money that we put into it.  We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  She is just trying to stack the deck against me because she has everything of value from our marriage.  No, I don't feel I owe it and yes, she is responsible for half the taxes.  I've covered her on my insurance for the last five years, should I expect half that money back?  That's almost 15,000 dollars?  I would never expect that.
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« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2015, 12:53:10 PM »

We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  

At the time, did you agree with her?  :)isagree with her?  Insist it be paid back, you will not be held responsible, put it in writing sort of thing?  Have you gone along with it over the years up until more recently?

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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2015, 01:11:39 PM »

We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  

At the time, did you agree with her?  :)isagree with her?  Insist it be paid back, you will not be held responsible, put it in writing sort of thing?  Have you gone along with it over the years up until more recently?

We both agreed that at that time we should put it into the household as we had a lot going on.  I did mention the loan but she said since it was coming out of her check that that was better.  I relented on a lot because I didn't want the hell that came with standing up.  I know now it wasn't right.  But I have much better boundaries now.  She never brought up the 401k loan until she realized I wasn't giving in on the w/d.  It's another tactic.  Now she has found something else to try and have control.  It's not working.
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« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2015, 01:49:54 PM »

We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  

At the time, did you agree with her?  :)isagree with her?  Insist it be paid back, you will not be held responsible, put it in writing sort of thing?  Have you gone along with it over the years up until more recently?

We both agreed that at that time we should put it into the household as we had a lot going on. I did mention the loan but she said since it was coming out of her check that that was better.  I relented on a lot because I didn't want the hell that came with standing up.  I know now it wasn't right.  But I have much better boundaries now.  She never brought up the 401k loan until she realized I wasn't giving in on the w/d.  It's another tactic.  Now she has found something else to try and have control.  It's not working.

I don't know, Maroon; this sounds messy and tit-for-tactics, to me anyway.  Maybe I should step away from this discussion.

All the best, truly. 
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« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2015, 01:59:09 PM »

I think messy and now dangerous, Maroon.

Do you think it is safe after this to be in her house without adult witnesses? If it's no longer your home, and if police are summoned to a domestic violence call, it might not look good for you.
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« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2015, 02:04:14 PM »

We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  

At the time, did you agree with her?  :)isagree with her?  Insist it be paid back, you will not be held responsible, put it in writing sort of thing?  Have you gone along with it over the years up until more recently?

We both agreed that at that time we should put it into the household as we had a lot going on. I did mention the loan but she said since it was coming out of her check that that was better.  I relented on a lot because I didn't want the hell that came with standing up.  I know now it wasn't right.  But I have much better boundaries now.  She never brought up the 401k loan until she realized I wasn't giving in on the w/d.  It's another tactic.  Now she has found something else to try and have control.  It's not working.

I don't know, Maroon; this sounds messy and tit-for-tactics, to me anyway.  Maybe I should step away from this discussion.

All the best, truly. 

Pheebs, I'm not doing a tit-for-tat thing, I'm only making a point.  I didn't mean to offend you.  I'm just saying, I think she is being ridiculous and completely selfish.  I've given up a lot and even letting her stay on my insurance this year (didn't have to) because I love her and the kids and wanted the best for them.  She never takes that into account.  She never takes into account all the bad crap she's done to me either.  She's always the victim and sets things up for her to be the victim.  :)o you see my side?

I agree Kate.  That's why I stayed calm, especially with our son in the next room.
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« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2015, 05:08:54 PM »

Is there a plan to make sure the kids are not put through this cycle any more? They have had a lot of trauma in their young lives, it seems.

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« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2015, 06:35:01 PM »

Is there a plan to make sure the kids are not put through this cycle any more? They have had a lot of trauma in their young lives, it seems.

I'm trying to be the calm and level headed person in their lives.  I truly am.  I have been trying to change this cycle.  She has made the choices to step back to the unhealthy behavior.  I stayed calm, firm, held a boundary and left when she dystegulated and almost wouldn't let me leave and then took a bat to the hood of my car.  Thats the first time in a long time she has dysregulated like that.  this is a big back for her and our r/s.  I am at peace today and have no remorse about how I handled the situation.  How would others of you have handled it in my situation?
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« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2015, 06:46:45 PM »

I think you're working so very hard to do the right thing. But worry that you will go right back inside that house and be vulnerable to variations of this same scene again.
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« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2015, 06:58:15 PM »

 

Maroon,

What is the right way to handle a situation if someone steals your stuff and won't give it back?

What is the right way to handle a situation is someone damages your property and won't make it right?  Maybe vandalize is the right word.

As she ups the ante'... .IMO... .she is testing you to see what's up with the new boundaries... .the new values that you are living.  Not saying this is conscious thought... .it may... .or may not be... .but that is what it appears.

I've got some ideas... .but it will take a while to work through the other posts.

Hang tough... .

FF
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« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2015, 07:01:10 PM »

 

Maroon,

And everyone else... .

I may be projecting a bit here... .because in my r/s... ."she" has control of money... .I've decided not to rescue... .

I'm sensing some of this in Maroons past.

So... .my take... .and if this was my r/s... .was she decided to stroke the check and pay something else... .instead of a loan.  I would let her bear the burden.

Maroon,

If you guys agreed at the time to do other things with the money... .then I think you should be on the hook.

It doesn't seem like that... .it seems like you said lets pay this back.  She said I'm doing something else... .you decided not to fight it.

That is NOT an agreement in my book... .

I'm sure others may have other views... .that's ok... .I may not be looking at this "correctly".

FF
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« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2015, 07:18:55 PM »

it seems like you said lets pay this back.  She said I'm doing something else... .you decided not to fight it.

That is NOT an agreement in my book... .

I'm sure others may have other views... .that's ok... .I may not be looking at this "correctly".

FF

FF, I'm reading this as you are. (Also maybe not correctly.)
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« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2015, 08:23:34 PM »



OK... .goal here is to attempt to point out some turning points.  Points where gas can be added to the fire... .or... .ejection handle pulled... .( Being cool (click to insert in post) aviator lingo... .)


Well, my wife dysregulated tonight even to the point of denting the hood on my car with a bat.  I stayed calm through the entire thing.  We were having a discussion about taxes and everything was calm and we were discussing options.  Then she brought up something completely ridiculous and I did my very best to stay calm, even diverting the subject.  I said that when we call the IRS about our taxes in the next day or so, we need to ask them about something in particular. 

What is that something in particular... .can you say?  Trying to see if this is triggering?

Also... .can you just do this... .gather all the info... .and if she wants to call... .great... .if not... .you know the score?

Or... .are you "making a deal" ... .trying to settle?

She said, "I tell you what, why don't you pay the tax debt until I pay my 401k loan and then I'll help you pay the taxes off."  I simply said, "I don't agree to that.  As I said last week, we were paid back for that loan, regardless of whether we actually paid it back or spent it.  Now, let's get back to the IRS debt." 

OK... .so... .you said it last week.  She heard you... .why say it again.  I'm in the camp that says say it once... .clearly... .and move along. Some will say never jade... .never explain.  I think... .one... .clear stance... .is ok.  Done correctly.

My suggestion is:  I'm here to discuss taxes... .or... .I can only focus on taxes right now... .  Mentioning the other "trigger"... .might be a bit of fuel.



She said, "No, let's talk about this."  I said, "Were here to talk about the taxes." 

OK... .to me... .it seems like you are still playing her game.  You are still involved in an unproductive conversation... .about a subject that is a known... .bigtime trigger.

She started raising her voice and said, "No we need to resolve this." I said, "Again, we have already discussed this, so if we can't go back to talking about the taxes, then I'm going to go since this is leading nowhere good and we can discuss this another time." 

Still involved in unproductive conversation... ."argument" about the purpose of the meeting.  She knows what it is about... .you know it... .threatening to leave is upping the ante... .especially late in the game.

And then she grabbed my cell phone out of my hand and got up from the bed.  I simply said repeatedly and very calmly, "Wife, please give me my phone back."  She said, "No, not until we resolve these things." 

OK... .you are in the hurt locker now.  Although I think calmly asking for it back is right thing... .asking once. 

I responded with, "I'm not going to resolve them with someone who repeatedly takes things from me.  I mean you still won't give me my laptop back." 

OK... .I'm seeing more fuel being poured on the fire by you.  She also upped it with the threat.  So... .if you don't like her game... .why keep playing it?

She also now knows the laptop bugs you... .she is "getting something" from this... .



She said, "Nope, I won't."  I grabbed her iPad off the bed and said, "When you can give me my phone back, then you can have this."  She said, "So you'll steal from me?"  I said, "I'm not stealing, I'm just not going to put up with you taking my things anymore." 

So... .more fuel... .

Now... .please understand... .I'm not saying her actions are your fault... .this is "tactical discussion". 


She told me to get out of her house, and I said, "Not until I get my phone back."  I've asked you repeatedly, and very nicely to give it back and you refuse." 

Maybe a bit more fuel.

Would silence have been better?

She said, "dont raise your voice to me with our son in the next room."  I said, "I am not raising my voice, I'm simply asking for my phone back and you continue to play this game.  I will be glad to discuss things when we're calm." 

You are allowing and participating in her diversion... .ok... .so you can't "allow" or disallow... .but your words followed her on this tangent.

She said, "No, you just want to skirt any responsibility.  Remember, I have an attorney and you will be on the hook for all of our tax debt."  I said very calmly, "Wife, we are both on the hook for our tax debt." 

OK... .why discuss taxes now? 


Finally she gave me my phone in exchange for the iPad and she started pushing me out of the house.  I grabbed my change on her bedside table and she yelled, "You're going to steal change from a single woman?"  I said, "This is my change I left here last night and you know that."  I grabbed my keys and she pushed me out the door and said, ":)on't ever come here again." 

Why not just leave... .ignore her.  ?

I started to walk to my car and she came out and said, "I need our daughters softball gear."  I opened my trunk and she started pulling things out. 

Did you think she would calm down by you doing the right  thing here?  Next time... .drive off... .

I gave her what was theirs and she took a bat to my tail light (didn't break it).  I told her, "Wife, you need to calm down or I will call the police."  She said, "What, are you going to tell them you owe me money?  I'm sure they would love to hear that!"  I said, "No, I'll tell them you are vandalizing my car. And you are out of control"  I started to get in my car and she hit my front tail light (again, didn't break it), then hit my hood and dented it.  Crazy.  i was proud of myself for staying calm, never raising my voice, and speaking truth in the middle of it where our son could hear.  It still amazes me how one minute they are fine and the next they are out of freaking control.  I did nothing except hold a boundary, try to divert the conversation, and it didn't help.  I will not backdown and she is starting to realize it.

OK... .you have told her you will call the police... .if you don't... .she knows you are a bluffer.

Not saying that is right thing to do... .but... .generally not good to threaten... .draw a line in sand... .and let them keep hopping over it.

Don't draw the line.

Hang tough... .thoughts?

FF
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« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2015, 09:29:14 PM »

OK... .goal here is to attempt to point out some turning points.  Points where gas can be added to the fire... .or... .ejection handle pulled... .( Being cool (click to insert in post) aviator lingo... .)

During this ordeal, I did try and think about each move I made.  I did my best in the situation.

Well, my wife dysregulated tonight even to the point of denting the hood on my car with a bat.  I stayed calm through the entire thing.  We were having a discussion about taxes and everything was calm and we were discussing options.  Then she brought up something completely ridiculous and I did my very best to stay calm, even diverting the subject.  I said that when we call the IRS about our taxes in the next day or so, we need to ask them about something in particular. 

What is that something in particular... .can you say?  Trying to see if this is triggering?

Also... .can you just do this... .gather all the info... .and if she wants to call... .great... .if not... .you know the score?

Or... .are you "making a deal" ... .trying to settle?

That something in particular was bringing up the 401k deal.  She is using that now like the w/d deal.  I did gather all the info regarding our tax situation/implications/possible steps forward as I talked to the IRS wlearlier in the day. 

I will go through the night again... .The night started with me taking our daughter along with my daughters to the batting cages.  We all met for dinner afterwards.  When we got to the house, our son was upset and talking to her about being bullied at school that day.  Shortly after that, I validated how difficult that must be for him, talked about that for a minute and then we sat down and started discussing the taxes.  I gave her all the scenarios.    One of those scenarios, and may have been the triggering thing now that I think about it, was discussing one of the situations where we each fill out a form and pay separately based on our incomes/bills etc.  I think that did it.  But that was a scenario.  She asked for all of them.  She got upset thinking that I would pay less than her because of many reasons.  I validated that that would be hard and reiterated that was just a scenario.  thats when everything went south and she brought up the 401k stuff.  She was thinking about how unfair it was.

She said, "I tell you what, why don't you pay the tax debt until I pay my 401k loan and then I'll help you pay the taxes off."  I simply said, "I don't agree to that.  As I said last week, we were paid back for that loan, regardless of whether we actually paid it back or spent it.  Now, let's get back to the IRS debt." 

OK... .so... .you said it last week.  She heard you... .why say it again.  I'm in the camp that says say it once... .clearly... .and move along. Some will say never jade... .never explain.  I think... .one... .clear stance... .is ok.  Done correctly.

My suggestion is:  I'm here to discuss taxes... .or... .I can only focus on taxes right now... .  Mentioning the other "trigger"... .might be a bit of fuel.

I did say several times I'm here to discuss taxes.



She said, "No, let's talk about this."  I said, "Were here to talk about the taxes." 

OK... .to me... .it seems like you are still playing her game.  You are still involved in an unproductive conversation... .about a subject that is a known... .bigtime trigger.

She started raising her voice and said, "No we need to resolve this." I said, "Again, we have already discussed this, so if we can't go back to talking about the taxes, then I'm going to go since this is leading nowhere good and we can discuss this another time." 

Still involved in unproductive conversation... ."argument" about the purpose of the meeting.  She knows what it is about... .you know it... .threatening to leave is upping the ante... .especially late in the game.

And then she grabbed my cell phone out of my hand and got up from the bed.  I simply said repeatedly and very calmly, "Wife, please give me my phone back."  She said, "No, not until we resolve these things." 

OK... .you are in the hurt locker now.  Although I think calmly asking for it back is right thing... .asking once. 

I responded with, "I'm not going to resolve them with someone who repeatedly takes things from me.  I mean you still won't give me my laptop back." 

OK... .I'm seeing more fuel being poured on the fire by you.  She also upped it with the threat.  So... .if you don't like her game... .why keep playing it?

She also now knows the laptop bugs you... .she is "getting something" from this... .

But what?



She said, "Nope, I won't."  I grabbed her iPad off the bed and said, "When you can give me my phone back, then you can have this."  She said, "So you'll steal from me?"  I said, "I'm not stealing, I'm just not going to put up with you taking my things anymore." 

So... .more fuel... .

Now... .please understand... .I'm not saying her actions are your fault... .this is "tactical discussion". 


She told me to get out of her house, and I said, "Not until I get my phone back."  I've asked you repeatedly, and very nicely to give it back and you refuse." 

Maybe a bit more fuel.

Would silence have been better?

She said, "dont raise your voice to me with our son in the next room."  I said, "I am not raising my voice, I'm simply asking for my phone back and you continue to play this game.  I will be glad to discuss things when we're calm." 

You are allowing and participating in her diversion... .ok... .so you can't "allow" or disallow... .but your words followed her on this tangent.

She said, "No, you just want to skirt any responsibility.  Remember, I have an attorney and you will be on the hook for all of our tax debt."  I said very calmly, "Wife, we are both on the hook for our tax debt." 

OK... .why discuss taxes now? 


Finally she gave me my phone in exchange for the iPad and she started pushing me out of the house.  I grabbed my change on her bedside table and she yelled, "You're going to steal change from a single woman?"  I said, "This is my change I left here last night and you know that."  I grabbed my keys and she pushed me out the door and said, ":)on't ever come here again." 

Why not just leave... .ignore her.  ?

I just saw the change I left and grabbed it.  It was an "ADD in the moment thing"  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I started to walk to my car and she came out and said, "I need our daughters softball gear."  I opened my trunk and she started pulling things out. 

Did you think she would calm down by you doing the right  thing here?  Next time... .drive off... .

Don't know what I thought.

I gave her what was theirs and she took a bat to my tail light (didn't break it).  I told her, "Wife, you need to calm down or I will call the police."  She said, "What, are you going to tell them you owe me money?  I'm sure they would love to hear that!"  I said, "No, I'll tell them you are vandalizing my car. And you are out of control"  I started to get in my car and she hit my front tail light (again, didn't break it), then hit my hood and dented it.  Crazy.  i was proud of myself for staying calm, never raising my voice, and speaking truth in the middle of it where our son could hear.  It still amazes me how one minute they are fine and the next they are out of freaking control.  I did nothing except hold a boundary, try to divert the conversation, and it didn't help.  I will not backdown and she is starting to realize it.

OK... .you have told her you will call the police... .if you don't... .she knows you are a bluffer.

Not saying that is right thing to do... .but... .generally not good to threaten... .draw a line in sand... .and let them keep hopping over it.

Don't draw the line.

Hang tough... .thoughts?

FF

My thoughts?   Really tired of her unhealthiness and not seeking help.  I know I can't control her, but she continues her poor a$$ behavior... .Even in front of her kids and she wonders why they are struggling!  I don't know what to do regarding our r/s anymore.  I'm hanging tough, and staying strong.  Yes, she has gotten better.  Yes, yesterday was a step backward.  Not sure where to go from here... .
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« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2015, 10:14:28 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its post limit, and has been closed. It is a worthwhile topic, and you are welcome to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thank you for understanding... .

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