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Author Topic: Standing Firm In Her Raging Storm...  (Read 1054 times)
MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2015, 04:04:34 PM »

My wife texts today and asks if I wanted to come over and take care of the IRS together and call them.  I said that I would and we decided to get some lunch before.  We had a good lunch and she invited me to the movies with them this evening and I agreed to go.  We were walking the dogs this afternoon and we stopped to give each other a kiss.  She said to me, "We have a weird relationship."  I asked her what she meant.  She said we are in the middle of a divorce.  I wasn't sure how to respond and said, "that doesn't mean my feelings for you have changed."  When I said that, she immediately changed the subject.  Thoughts on how to tackle statement if it comes up again? 
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« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2015, 11:21:27 PM »

  Thoughts on how to tackle statement if it comes up again? 

Very carefully!   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2015, 11:01:29 PM »

 Thoughts on how to tackle statement if it comes up again?  

Very carefully!   Smiling (click to insert in post)

I think I'm getting the ST again.  Earlier this evening, my son (6YO) wanted to stay over with me.  We went over to my wife's house to drop our daughter off as we were at the batting cages.  We hung out for a while and spent time together.  I noticed that my wife was on edge several times, nothing that was over the top, but still on edge.  Our son (17YO) wanted to run to the store.  I let my son stay with our daughters while we went.  We stopped to get a bite to eat and she offered to buy us something.  I said I didn't want anything as I was taking my son back to my place.  She seemed taken aback by that, but I didn't say anything.  We got back to her place and I told my son to get his shoes on.  When we left, she gave me one of those "side hugs".  We left and had to turn around shortly after to get his chocolate shake he left.  When we got back to pick it up, she said, "Why did you leave so quick?"  I told her that it wasn't personal and needed to get my son home.  She said, "No problem I just offered so you didn't have to leave so soon.  She closed the door and walked inside.  Honestly, I don't know the answer to that myself.  I know that I am a little low on cash, but have never turned down a meal, especially with my wife. I am starting to think it is two-fold.  First, she seemed on edge throughout the night, even calling me down a couple of times.  Second, I was dealing with something myself and didn't want to put it on her.  I made the choice to leave and could see how I triggered something in her.  When I got home I texted (she asked me to) her to no response.  I used SET to apologize that I left so abruptly and asked forgiveness.  Still no response.   . Oh well.  I'll see her tomorrow for a softball function.
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2015, 07:51:10 AM »

Either the ST from my wife lifted yesterday when I didn't call or text or she realized I had a lot of things on my mind, especially with my grandmother who isn't well.  My wife called out of the blue like nothing happened yesterday and invited me over.  We watched some stuff on TV, she asked me about the family meeting about my grandmother, we had dinner and ended up spending the night together.  It was a good night. 
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2015, 11:18:19 PM »

Well, my wife dysregulated tonight even to the point of denting the hood on my car with a bat.  I stayed calm through the entire thing.  We were having a discussion about taxes and everything was calm and we were discussing options.  Then she brought up something completely ridiculous and I did my very best to stay calm, even diverting the subject.  I said that when we call the IRS about our taxes in the next day or so, we need to ask them about something in particular.  She said, "I tell you what, why don't you pay the tax debt until I pay my 401k loan and then I'll help you pay the taxes off."  I simply said, "I don't agree to that.  As I said last week, we were paid back for that loan, regardless of whether we actually paid it back or spent it.  Now, let's get back to the IRS debt."  She said, "No, let's talk about this."  I said, "Were here to talk about the taxes."  She started raising her voice and said, "No we need to resolve this." I said, "Again, we have already discussed this, so if we can't go back to talking about the taxes, then I'm going to go since this is leading nowhere good and we can discuss this another time."  And then she grabbed my cell phone out of my hand and got up from the bed.  I simply said repeatedly and very calmly, "Wife, please give me my phone back."  She said, "No, not until we resolve these things."  I responded with, "I'm not going to resolve them with someone who repeatedly takes things from me.  I mean you still won't give me my laptop back."  She said, "Nope, I won't."  I grabbed her iPad off the bed and said, "When you can give me my phone back, then you can have this."  She said, "So you'll steal from me?"  I said, "I'm not stealing, I'm just not going to put up with you taking my things anymore."  She told me to get out of her house, and I said, "Not until I get my phone back."  I've asked you repeatedly, and very nicely to give it back and you refuse."  She said, "dont raise your voice to me with our son in the next room."  I said, "I am not raising my voice, I'm simply asking for my phone back and you continue to play this game.  I will be glad to discuss things when we're calm."  She said, "No, you just want to skirt any responsibility.  Remember, I have an attorney and you will be on the hook for all of our tax debt."  I said very calmly, "Wife, we are both on the hook for our tax debt."  Finally she gave me my phone in exchange for the iPad and she started pushing me out of the house.  I grabbed my change on her bedside table and she yelled, "You're going to steal change from a single woman?"  I said, "This is my change I left here last night and you know that."  I grabbed my keys and she pushed me out the door and said, ":)on't ever come here again."  I started to walk to my car and she came out and said, "I need our daughters softball gear."  I opened my trunk and she started pulling things out.  I gave her what was theirs and she took a bat to my tail light (didn't break it).  I told her, "Wife, you need to calm down or I will call the police."  She said, "What, are you going to tell them you owe me money?  I'm sure they would love to hear that!"  I said, "No, I'll tell them you are vandalizing my car. And you are out of control"  I started to get in my car and she hit my front tail light (again, didn't break it), then hit my hood and dented it.  Crazy.  i was proud of myself for staying calm, never raising my voice, and speaking truth in the middle of it where our son could hear.  It still amazes me how one minute they are fine and the next they are out of freaking control.  I did nothing except hold a boundary, try to divert the conversation, and it didn't help.  I will not backdown and she is starting to realize it.
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« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2015, 07:00:30 AM »

 

 

Hey... .what has changed that you guys are "discussing" taxes again... .?  I though that got settled... .that you were each doing your own side of things... .or discussing those issues through attorneys?

OK... .wow... .sucky situation. 

While it would seem that the mutual hostage taking... .your phone... .her ipad (or whatever it was) seems to have been effective... .I'm not sure it is the best thing to do... .or "emotionally healthy".

At first blush... .it appears that you are "playing her game"... ."fighting fire with fire"... .

Not sure if that is right way to go... .

What are you planning on doing about dent?

While it is still fresh... .I challenge you to think through things... .to look for turning points.  What could be done differently.  Not saying any of this that you did was wrong... .more me thinking that if faced with something in future... .what will you do?

Hang tough... .

FF
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2015, 07:25:52 AM »

Hi Maroon, yuck, sorry to hear things turned so volatile.

Then she brought up something completely ridiculous and I did my very best to stay calm, even diverting the subject.  I said that when we call the IRS about our taxes in the next day or so, we need to ask them about something in particular.  She said, "I tell you what, why don't you pay the tax debt until I pay my 401k loan and then I'll help you pay the taxes off."  I simply said, "I don't agree to that.  As I said last week, we were paid back for that loan, regardless of whether we actually paid it back or spent it.  Now, let's get back to the IRS debt."  She said, "No, let's talk about this."  I said, "Were here to talk about the taxes."  She started raising her voice and said, "No we need to resolve this." I said, "Again, we have already discussed this, so if we can't go back to talking about the taxes, then I'm going to go since this is leading nowhere good and we can discuss this another time." 

I'd like to have a better understanding of this 401k business... .

Did you have a part in spending the payback for the loan?  :)id you benefit in any way?  :)id the two of you discuss at the time a plan for how the 401k loan would be paid back and she totally dropped the ball?

The way you're both going about it doesn't seem to be working very well... . Sounds like a lot of resentment and frustration

Have these discussions ever gone over well or truly been resolved?  I'm trying to think of how this could be resolved once and for all; any ideas come to mind?
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« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2015, 07:43:38 AM »

 

OH... .yeah... .meant to say that you have already explained your stance on 401... .why explain it further?

JADE alert... .

FF
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« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2015, 10:30:26 AM »

 

Hey... .what has changed that you guys are "discussing" taxes again... .?  I though that got settled... .that you were each doing your own side of things... .or discussing those issues through attorneys?

We were not discussing filing, we were discussing how to handle paying back what we owe collectively to them.  I was telling her the options that we had that were given to me by the IRS and how to go about them.

OK... .wow... .sucky situation. 

While it would seem that the mutual hostage taking... .your phone... .her ipad (or whatever it was) seems to have been effective... .I'm not sure it is the best thing to do... .or "emotionally healthy".

At first blush... .it appears that you are "playing her game"... ."fighting fire with fire"... .

Not sure if that is right way to go... .

In the moment, I was done being stolen from.  I did what I had to do.  I know it seems stooping to her level, but I looked at it as she saw me standing up for myself and not allowing her that control.  In that moment, I could see if I didn't I probably wouldn't have gotten my phone back. 

What are you planning on doing about dent?

Not sure what to do... .

While it is still fresh... .I challenge you to think through things... .to look for turning points.  What could be done differently.  Not saying any of this that you did was wrong... .more me thinking that if faced with something in future... .what will you do?

Hang tough... .

FF

Not sure I could have done things any differently.  Picking up her iPad as leverage is a point of debate, but other than that, I tried to leave, say we can talk about this when things calm down.  She tried to keep that from happening including accusing me of not resolving anything because I was a coward and a piece of $hit.  I stayed extremely calm the whole time.  She was trying to bait me and I never took it.  It started when she was talking to our son (17YO) because he was being picked on at school yesterday and wasn't handling thi

Let me explain something about the 401k loan.  First, my wife is trying anything she can to keep me embroiled in a fight.  Now, as far as the payback, we spent it to pay bills among other things.  What she is also trying to do with this "401k" loan is "stack the deck" against me. She understands she has EVERYTHING of value from our marriage (got everything when she kicked me out and didn't allow me to get anything, plus she has the w/d that she will have to pay for) and will have to give up quite a bit, so she is trying to use anything she can to counter that.  That's why she is mad because she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2015, 11:23:51 AM »

Let me explain something about the 401k loan.  First, my wife is trying anything she can to keep me embroiled in a fight.  Now, as far as the payback, we spent it to pay bills among other things. 

Whose bills?

She understands she has EVERYTHING of value from our marriage (got everything when she kicked me out and didn't allow me to get anything, plus she has the w/d that she will have to pay for) and will have to give up quite a bit, so she is trying to use anything she can to counter that.  That's why she is mad because she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

And where are you in all of this?
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2015, 11:45:38 AM »

Let me explain something about the 401k loan.  First, my wife is trying anything she can to keep me embroiled in a fight.  Now, as far as the payback, we spent it to pay bills among other things.  

Whose bills?

She understands she has EVERYTHING of value from our marriage (got everything when she kicked me out and didn't allow me to get anything, plus she has the w/d that she will have to pay for) and will have to give up quite a bit, so she is trying to use anything she can to counter that.  That's why she is mad because she knows she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

And where are you in all of this?

Our bills as a family.  This was done like three years ago.  This wasn't done in the last year or anything.

I've talked with a lawyer and getting counsel.  He thinks she's playing games but has a gameplan.

FF, I told her we had already discussed it and held that boundary.  She  was pushing it.  I tried and changed the subject.  When I realized it started to go south, That is when I said we would talk about it later and tried to leave and she grabbed my phone.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2015, 11:56:12 AM »

We were not discussing filing, we were discussing how to handle paying back what we owe collectively to them.  I was telling her the options that we had that were given to me by the IRS and how to go about them.

Our bills as a family.  This was done like three years ago.  This wasn't done in the last year or anything.

Would "bills as a family" be considered "own collectively"?  You think she should be held solely responsible for the 401k loan and half the taxes, is this correct?

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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #42 on: May 19, 2015, 12:23:32 PM »

We were not discussing filing, we were discussing how to handle paying back what we owe collectively to them.  I was telling her the options that we had that were given to me by the IRS and how to go about them.

Our bills as a family.  This was done like three years ago.  This wasn't done in the last year or anything.

Would "bills as a family" be considered "own collectively"?  You think she should be held solely responsible for the 401k loan and half the taxes, is this correct?

Let me clarify the 401k loan.  We used the 401k loan to start a business.  We made enough money from that business to get all our money back we paid to start it.  Not only that, we sold the business and received almost all the money that we put into it.  We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  She is just trying to stack the deck against me because she has everything of value from our marriage.  No, I don't feel I owe it and yes, she is responsible for half the taxes.  I've covered her on my insurance for the last five years, should I expect half that money back?  That's almost 15,000 dollars?  I would never expect that.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2015, 12:53:10 PM »

We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  

At the time, did you agree with her?  :)isagree with her?  Insist it be paid back, you will not be held responsible, put it in writing sort of thing?  Have you gone along with it over the years up until more recently?

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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2015, 01:11:39 PM »

We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  

At the time, did you agree with her?  :)isagree with her?  Insist it be paid back, you will not be held responsible, put it in writing sort of thing?  Have you gone along with it over the years up until more recently?

We both agreed that at that time we should put it into the household as we had a lot going on.  I did mention the loan but she said since it was coming out of her check that that was better.  I relented on a lot because I didn't want the hell that came with standing up.  I know now it wasn't right.  But I have much better boundaries now.  She never brought up the 401k loan until she realized I wasn't giving in on the w/d.  It's another tactic.  Now she has found something else to try and have control.  It's not working.
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123Phoebe
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« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2015, 01:49:54 PM »

We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  

At the time, did you agree with her?  :)isagree with her?  Insist it be paid back, you will not be held responsible, put it in writing sort of thing?  Have you gone along with it over the years up until more recently?

We both agreed that at that time we should put it into the household as we had a lot going on. I did mention the loan but she said since it was coming out of her check that that was better.  I relented on a lot because I didn't want the hell that came with standing up.  I know now it wasn't right.  But I have much better boundaries now.  She never brought up the 401k loan until she realized I wasn't giving in on the w/d.  It's another tactic.  Now she has found something else to try and have control.  It's not working.

I don't know, Maroon; this sounds messy and tit-for-tactics, to me anyway.  Maybe I should step away from this discussion.

All the best, truly. 
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« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2015, 01:59:09 PM »

I think messy and now dangerous, Maroon.

Do you think it is safe after this to be in her house without adult witnesses? If it's no longer your home, and if police are summoned to a domestic violence call, it might not look good for you.
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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2015, 02:04:14 PM »

We received almost twice the money that we put into it through both means.  She could have paid it back at anytime and I even mentioned the loan a couple of years ago when we got the money.  She said we should put it towards other things.  

At the time, did you agree with her?  :)isagree with her?  Insist it be paid back, you will not be held responsible, put it in writing sort of thing?  Have you gone along with it over the years up until more recently?

We both agreed that at that time we should put it into the household as we had a lot going on. I did mention the loan but she said since it was coming out of her check that that was better.  I relented on a lot because I didn't want the hell that came with standing up.  I know now it wasn't right.  But I have much better boundaries now.  She never brought up the 401k loan until she realized I wasn't giving in on the w/d.  It's another tactic.  Now she has found something else to try and have control.  It's not working.

I don't know, Maroon; this sounds messy and tit-for-tactics, to me anyway.  Maybe I should step away from this discussion.

All the best, truly. 

Pheebs, I'm not doing a tit-for-tat thing, I'm only making a point.  I didn't mean to offend you.  I'm just saying, I think she is being ridiculous and completely selfish.  I've given up a lot and even letting her stay on my insurance this year (didn't have to) because I love her and the kids and wanted the best for them.  She never takes that into account.  She never takes into account all the bad crap she's done to me either.  She's always the victim and sets things up for her to be the victim.  :)o you see my side?

I agree Kate.  That's why I stayed calm, especially with our son in the next room.
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« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2015, 05:08:54 PM »

Is there a plan to make sure the kids are not put through this cycle any more? They have had a lot of trauma in their young lives, it seems.

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« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2015, 06:35:01 PM »

Is there a plan to make sure the kids are not put through this cycle any more? They have had a lot of trauma in their young lives, it seems.

I'm trying to be the calm and level headed person in their lives.  I truly am.  I have been trying to change this cycle.  She has made the choices to step back to the unhealthy behavior.  I stayed calm, firm, held a boundary and left when she dystegulated and almost wouldn't let me leave and then took a bat to the hood of my car.  Thats the first time in a long time she has dysregulated like that.  this is a big back for her and our r/s.  I am at peace today and have no remorse about how I handled the situation.  How would others of you have handled it in my situation?
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« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2015, 06:46:45 PM »

I think you're working so very hard to do the right thing. But worry that you will go right back inside that house and be vulnerable to variations of this same scene again.
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« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2015, 06:58:15 PM »

 

Maroon,

What is the right way to handle a situation if someone steals your stuff and won't give it back?

What is the right way to handle a situation is someone damages your property and won't make it right?  Maybe vandalize is the right word.

As she ups the ante'... .IMO... .she is testing you to see what's up with the new boundaries... .the new values that you are living.  Not saying this is conscious thought... .it may... .or may not be... .but that is what it appears.

I've got some ideas... .but it will take a while to work through the other posts.

Hang tough... .

FF
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« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2015, 07:01:10 PM »

 

Maroon,

And everyone else... .

I may be projecting a bit here... .because in my r/s... ."she" has control of money... .I've decided not to rescue... .

I'm sensing some of this in Maroons past.

So... .my take... .and if this was my r/s... .was she decided to stroke the check and pay something else... .instead of a loan.  I would let her bear the burden.

Maroon,

If you guys agreed at the time to do other things with the money... .then I think you should be on the hook.

It doesn't seem like that... .it seems like you said lets pay this back.  She said I'm doing something else... .you decided not to fight it.

That is NOT an agreement in my book... .

I'm sure others may have other views... .that's ok... .I may not be looking at this "correctly".

FF
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« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2015, 07:18:55 PM »

it seems like you said lets pay this back.  She said I'm doing something else... .you decided not to fight it.

That is NOT an agreement in my book... .

I'm sure others may have other views... .that's ok... .I may not be looking at this "correctly".

FF

FF, I'm reading this as you are. (Also maybe not correctly.)
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« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2015, 08:23:34 PM »



OK... .goal here is to attempt to point out some turning points.  Points where gas can be added to the fire... .or... .ejection handle pulled... .( Being cool (click to insert in post) aviator lingo... .)


Well, my wife dysregulated tonight even to the point of denting the hood on my car with a bat.  I stayed calm through the entire thing.  We were having a discussion about taxes and everything was calm and we were discussing options.  Then she brought up something completely ridiculous and I did my very best to stay calm, even diverting the subject.  I said that when we call the IRS about our taxes in the next day or so, we need to ask them about something in particular. 

What is that something in particular... .can you say?  Trying to see if this is triggering?

Also... .can you just do this... .gather all the info... .and if she wants to call... .great... .if not... .you know the score?

Or... .are you "making a deal" ... .trying to settle?

She said, "I tell you what, why don't you pay the tax debt until I pay my 401k loan and then I'll help you pay the taxes off."  I simply said, "I don't agree to that.  As I said last week, we were paid back for that loan, regardless of whether we actually paid it back or spent it.  Now, let's get back to the IRS debt." 

OK... .so... .you said it last week.  She heard you... .why say it again.  I'm in the camp that says say it once... .clearly... .and move along. Some will say never jade... .never explain.  I think... .one... .clear stance... .is ok.  Done correctly.

My suggestion is:  I'm here to discuss taxes... .or... .I can only focus on taxes right now... .  Mentioning the other "trigger"... .might be a bit of fuel.



She said, "No, let's talk about this."  I said, "Were here to talk about the taxes." 

OK... .to me... .it seems like you are still playing her game.  You are still involved in an unproductive conversation... .about a subject that is a known... .bigtime trigger.

She started raising her voice and said, "No we need to resolve this." I said, "Again, we have already discussed this, so if we can't go back to talking about the taxes, then I'm going to go since this is leading nowhere good and we can discuss this another time." 

Still involved in unproductive conversation... ."argument" about the purpose of the meeting.  She knows what it is about... .you know it... .threatening to leave is upping the ante... .especially late in the game.

And then she grabbed my cell phone out of my hand and got up from the bed.  I simply said repeatedly and very calmly, "Wife, please give me my phone back."  She said, "No, not until we resolve these things." 

OK... .you are in the hurt locker now.  Although I think calmly asking for it back is right thing... .asking once. 

I responded with, "I'm not going to resolve them with someone who repeatedly takes things from me.  I mean you still won't give me my laptop back." 

OK... .I'm seeing more fuel being poured on the fire by you.  She also upped it with the threat.  So... .if you don't like her game... .why keep playing it?

She also now knows the laptop bugs you... .she is "getting something" from this... .



She said, "Nope, I won't."  I grabbed her iPad off the bed and said, "When you can give me my phone back, then you can have this."  She said, "So you'll steal from me?"  I said, "I'm not stealing, I'm just not going to put up with you taking my things anymore." 

So... .more fuel... .

Now... .please understand... .I'm not saying her actions are your fault... .this is "tactical discussion". 


She told me to get out of her house, and I said, "Not until I get my phone back."  I've asked you repeatedly, and very nicely to give it back and you refuse." 

Maybe a bit more fuel.

Would silence have been better?

She said, "dont raise your voice to me with our son in the next room."  I said, "I am not raising my voice, I'm simply asking for my phone back and you continue to play this game.  I will be glad to discuss things when we're calm." 

You are allowing and participating in her diversion... .ok... .so you can't "allow" or disallow... .but your words followed her on this tangent.

She said, "No, you just want to skirt any responsibility.  Remember, I have an attorney and you will be on the hook for all of our tax debt."  I said very calmly, "Wife, we are both on the hook for our tax debt." 

OK... .why discuss taxes now? 


Finally she gave me my phone in exchange for the iPad and she started pushing me out of the house.  I grabbed my change on her bedside table and she yelled, "You're going to steal change from a single woman?"  I said, "This is my change I left here last night and you know that."  I grabbed my keys and she pushed me out the door and said, ":)on't ever come here again." 

Why not just leave... .ignore her.  ?

I started to walk to my car and she came out and said, "I need our daughters softball gear."  I opened my trunk and she started pulling things out. 

Did you think she would calm down by you doing the right  thing here?  Next time... .drive off... .

I gave her what was theirs and she took a bat to my tail light (didn't break it).  I told her, "Wife, you need to calm down or I will call the police."  She said, "What, are you going to tell them you owe me money?  I'm sure they would love to hear that!"  I said, "No, I'll tell them you are vandalizing my car. And you are out of control"  I started to get in my car and she hit my front tail light (again, didn't break it), then hit my hood and dented it.  Crazy.  i was proud of myself for staying calm, never raising my voice, and speaking truth in the middle of it where our son could hear.  It still amazes me how one minute they are fine and the next they are out of freaking control.  I did nothing except hold a boundary, try to divert the conversation, and it didn't help.  I will not backdown and she is starting to realize it.

OK... .you have told her you will call the police... .if you don't... .she knows you are a bluffer.

Not saying that is right thing to do... .but... .generally not good to threaten... .draw a line in sand... .and let them keep hopping over it.

Don't draw the line.

Hang tough... .thoughts?

FF
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« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2015, 09:29:14 PM »

OK... .goal here is to attempt to point out some turning points.  Points where gas can be added to the fire... .or... .ejection handle pulled... .( Being cool (click to insert in post) aviator lingo... .)

During this ordeal, I did try and think about each move I made.  I did my best in the situation.

Well, my wife dysregulated tonight even to the point of denting the hood on my car with a bat.  I stayed calm through the entire thing.  We were having a discussion about taxes and everything was calm and we were discussing options.  Then she brought up something completely ridiculous and I did my very best to stay calm, even diverting the subject.  I said that when we call the IRS about our taxes in the next day or so, we need to ask them about something in particular. 

What is that something in particular... .can you say?  Trying to see if this is triggering?

Also... .can you just do this... .gather all the info... .and if she wants to call... .great... .if not... .you know the score?

Or... .are you "making a deal" ... .trying to settle?

That something in particular was bringing up the 401k deal.  She is using that now like the w/d deal.  I did gather all the info regarding our tax situation/implications/possible steps forward as I talked to the IRS wlearlier in the day. 

I will go through the night again... .The night started with me taking our daughter along with my daughters to the batting cages.  We all met for dinner afterwards.  When we got to the house, our son was upset and talking to her about being bullied at school that day.  Shortly after that, I validated how difficult that must be for him, talked about that for a minute and then we sat down and started discussing the taxes.  I gave her all the scenarios.    One of those scenarios, and may have been the triggering thing now that I think about it, was discussing one of the situations where we each fill out a form and pay separately based on our incomes/bills etc.  I think that did it.  But that was a scenario.  She asked for all of them.  She got upset thinking that I would pay less than her because of many reasons.  I validated that that would be hard and reiterated that was just a scenario.  thats when everything went south and she brought up the 401k stuff.  She was thinking about how unfair it was.

She said, "I tell you what, why don't you pay the tax debt until I pay my 401k loan and then I'll help you pay the taxes off."  I simply said, "I don't agree to that.  As I said last week, we were paid back for that loan, regardless of whether we actually paid it back or spent it.  Now, let's get back to the IRS debt." 

OK... .so... .you said it last week.  She heard you... .why say it again.  I'm in the camp that says say it once... .clearly... .and move along. Some will say never jade... .never explain.  I think... .one... .clear stance... .is ok.  Done correctly.

My suggestion is:  I'm here to discuss taxes... .or... .I can only focus on taxes right now... .  Mentioning the other "trigger"... .might be a bit of fuel.

I did say several times I'm here to discuss taxes.



She said, "No, let's talk about this."  I said, "Were here to talk about the taxes." 

OK... .to me... .it seems like you are still playing her game.  You are still involved in an unproductive conversation... .about a subject that is a known... .bigtime trigger.

She started raising her voice and said, "No we need to resolve this." I said, "Again, we have already discussed this, so if we can't go back to talking about the taxes, then I'm going to go since this is leading nowhere good and we can discuss this another time." 

Still involved in unproductive conversation... ."argument" about the purpose of the meeting.  She knows what it is about... .you know it... .threatening to leave is upping the ante... .especially late in the game.

And then she grabbed my cell phone out of my hand and got up from the bed.  I simply said repeatedly and very calmly, "Wife, please give me my phone back."  She said, "No, not until we resolve these things." 

OK... .you are in the hurt locker now.  Although I think calmly asking for it back is right thing... .asking once. 

I responded with, "I'm not going to resolve them with someone who repeatedly takes things from me.  I mean you still won't give me my laptop back." 

OK... .I'm seeing more fuel being poured on the fire by you.  She also upped it with the threat.  So... .if you don't like her game... .why keep playing it?

She also now knows the laptop bugs you... .she is "getting something" from this... .

But what?



She said, "Nope, I won't."  I grabbed her iPad off the bed and said, "When you can give me my phone back, then you can have this."  She said, "So you'll steal from me?"  I said, "I'm not stealing, I'm just not going to put up with you taking my things anymore." 

So... .more fuel... .

Now... .please understand... .I'm not saying her actions are your fault... .this is "tactical discussion". 


She told me to get out of her house, and I said, "Not until I get my phone back."  I've asked you repeatedly, and very nicely to give it back and you refuse." 

Maybe a bit more fuel.

Would silence have been better?

She said, "dont raise your voice to me with our son in the next room."  I said, "I am not raising my voice, I'm simply asking for my phone back and you continue to play this game.  I will be glad to discuss things when we're calm." 

You are allowing and participating in her diversion... .ok... .so you can't "allow" or disallow... .but your words followed her on this tangent.

She said, "No, you just want to skirt any responsibility.  Remember, I have an attorney and you will be on the hook for all of our tax debt."  I said very calmly, "Wife, we are both on the hook for our tax debt." 

OK... .why discuss taxes now? 


Finally she gave me my phone in exchange for the iPad and she started pushing me out of the house.  I grabbed my change on her bedside table and she yelled, "You're going to steal change from a single woman?"  I said, "This is my change I left here last night and you know that."  I grabbed my keys and she pushed me out the door and said, ":)on't ever come here again." 

Why not just leave... .ignore her.  ?

I just saw the change I left and grabbed it.  It was an "ADD in the moment thing"  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I started to walk to my car and she came out and said, "I need our daughters softball gear."  I opened my trunk and she started pulling things out. 

Did you think she would calm down by you doing the right  thing here?  Next time... .drive off... .

Don't know what I thought.

I gave her what was theirs and she took a bat to my tail light (didn't break it).  I told her, "Wife, you need to calm down or I will call the police."  She said, "What, are you going to tell them you owe me money?  I'm sure they would love to hear that!"  I said, "No, I'll tell them you are vandalizing my car. And you are out of control"  I started to get in my car and she hit my front tail light (again, didn't break it), then hit my hood and dented it.  Crazy.  i was proud of myself for staying calm, never raising my voice, and speaking truth in the middle of it where our son could hear.  It still amazes me how one minute they are fine and the next they are out of freaking control.  I did nothing except hold a boundary, try to divert the conversation, and it didn't help.  I will not backdown and she is starting to realize it.

OK... .you have told her you will call the police... .if you don't... .she knows you are a bluffer.

Not saying that is right thing to do... .but... .generally not good to threaten... .draw a line in sand... .and let them keep hopping over it.

Don't draw the line.

Hang tough... .thoughts?

FF

My thoughts?   Really tired of her unhealthiness and not seeking help.  I know I can't control her, but she continues her poor a$$ behavior... .Even in front of her kids and she wonders why they are struggling!  I don't know what to do regarding our r/s anymore.  I'm hanging tough, and staying strong.  Yes, she has gotten better.  Yes, yesterday was a step backward.  Not sure where to go from here... .
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« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2015, 10:14:28 PM »

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This thread has reached its post limit, and has been closed. It is a worthwhile topic, and you are welcome to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thank you for understanding... .

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