Do they create problems solely to justify disregulation?

[jcarter4856]

Initially BPD was quite confusing to me (the symptoms all matched uBPDw's behavior but still not much of it made any sense), but then I read here that "feelings become facts" and a great deal became clear and in its own way made sense. The pwBPD feels bad and their brain generates a reality that explains why they feel bad. Assigning the cause for feeling bad to some other person makes the BP feel better. A complicated version of hitting your thumb with the hammer then yelling "you made me do that!". Or a version of writing the thing that pains you on a piece of paper then setting fire to it.

OK, so I feel like this is the "Bohr model" stage in the journey to the grand unified theory of BPD. I'm ready for quantum mechanics now

Which brings me to the question: Do they create situations with the sole purpose of having something to feel bad about (and blame their partner for)? It sure seems like mine does, but I'm also not sure I understand why they'd do that. To give a concrete example : BPDw controls our finances. She tells me a few months prior to her birthday that under no circumstances am I to make any large purchases. States quite clearly several times that she would prefer to spend the money we have available on traveling rather than birthday gifts. Very clearly and unquestionably conveys the message that I am not to buy her a major birthday gift. You probably know where this goes next: we get to her birthday and she throws the mother of all fits because I haven't bought her a high-value gift. To me this feels like I was set up. This wasn't some hard to understand/ perhaps I got the message wrong type scenario. I see two possibilities: either (a) they set up a situation where you're expected to forcefully overrule them, thus making your intentions and actions all the more "true" (but to win at this game requires mind-reading powers). or (b) they set the double-bind up with the sole purpose of having something to complain about. But if the whole point of BPD is that feeling bad about yourself causes huge problems, why would you go out and start creating reasons to feel bad about yourself? Wouldn't you just not do that and be content with missing out on some pain? It would be the mental health equivalent of shooting your own foot.

This isn't an isolated incident -- over the years I've honed my Husband-Fu to the point where I really don't make any simple mistakes (toilet lid always down, trash always out, dishes always done, ... .) and it feels like these manufactured "wrongs" have arisen to replace the natural background noise of typical slip-ups that were available as triggers previously.

Anyone care to explain what's going on here?

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[Cat Familiar]

I noticed that pattern with my BPDexhusband. I called him the "Crisis Magnet"--to my friends, not to him. We'd finally get on track financially and then he'd blow the money on some crazy scheme. He bought pontoons and an old camper for a houseboat he was planning to build. Had he ever built a boat before? No. Did he know that there were regulations and licensing requirements for boats? He never thought about that. We had dozens of "projects" that not only were unfinished, they were unstarted.

Then when I'd finally start trusting him again about our relationship, he'd start an affair. This happened so many times and I kept forgiving him and believing that he could change.

Yikes! I can't believe how trusting and gullible I was. And yes, he would rage at me. If I asked why he was late, then it became my fault and suddenly I found myself apologizing to him!

My current BPD husband is much healthier on the spectrum, and is truly a nice guy (or so I believe). Anyway, this little walk down memory lane makes me so grateful that I don't have to deal with all the crap I did from the first one.

[Michelle27]

My H has shown a lot of insight the past few months as he accepts that something is wrong and seeks treatment.  He has admitted to feeling what he describes as "blackness" inside him and the only way to get it out is to create an issue that is MY problem so he can unload the crap onto me.  One example was a rage directed at my daughter from my first marriage after she dropped a sock carrying her laundry and she didn't pick it up within seconds of his request.  Meanwhile, next to him on the floor next to the couch was HIS dirty socks from earlier that day.  Another started with a request to place a garbage back 3 inches to the side of where I had put it.  My response was to immediately agree to the request.  He went on raging about the issue for TWELVE hours, including me having to leave the home and him continuing the raging by cell phone and texting. 

[jcarter4856]

My H has shown a lot of insight the past few months as he accepts that something is wrong and seeks treatment.  He has admitted to feeling what he describes as "blackness" inside him and the only way to get it out is to create an issue that is MY problem so he can unload the crap onto me.  One example was a rage directed at my daughter from my first marriage after she dropped a sock carrying her laundry and she didn't pick it up within seconds of his request.  Meanwhile, next to him on the floor next to the couch was HIS dirty socks from earlier that day.  Another started with a request to place a garbage back 3 inches to the side of where I had put it.  My response was to immediately agree to the request.  He went on raging about the issue for TWELVE hours, including me having to leave the home and him continuing the raging by cell phone and texting. 

This all sounds familiar

The particular type of situation I'm asking about would be where for example he first specifies that the garbage be in some specific location. Then later, changes the "correct" location, and rants about the fact that you put it in the exact place he previously requested. So he would have entirely created the problem, rather than just having become upset at some random innocuous thing found in the surroundings. Similarly, if he had requested that socks be left on the floor for his convenience; then later ranted about said socks.

Hope this makes sense.

[ColdEthyl]

I get what you are saying here. I think they might do that... .but it's still a subconscious thing.

My husband does what I think of as preemptive fit throwing. An example is like... .he asked me to get item X from store in the morning. After work, I text him and say I'm going to the store, do you need anything? He will say he doesn't, even though he knows he asked me for X item in the morning. I go to the store and forget about X. When I get home, I am the A@@hole because "He knew I would forget, because I NEVER get him anything he asks for." He was waiting for me to screw up so he could yell.

He hasn't done this in some time now since we are working on the r/s and it's getting a lot better, but yeah. When he does do this, it's during a time he's already depressed/dysregulated and I think it gives him something to focus that anger and negativism on.

[Hmcbart]

J- I can attest to what your talking about first hand with my uBPDw. I have just come off of a peaceful two weeks of being painted white. I didn't do or say anything to upset her or change the way things were going. It was like someone just flipped a light switch in her mind and boom, I'm the devil.

We've been together 20 years so I have lots of examples. I'm just now learning about all of this BPD stuff. So my light build came on as well, it just didn't make me think and less of her.

But to your question, from my experience I've learned that things can only go so long in happy land. It seems that if things are good then she doesn't expect them to last. She will look for any opportunity to trigger me into being angry. That way she can say "I told you that you are always mad at me for something". 

I've noticed lately, thanks to some of the things I've learned here, that I can keep my head longer without being triggered. That's when things get fun. She will act upset and make little comments about something that's bothering her. To try and "talk to me".

Basically she will bait me into her world under the guise of talking about the kids or finances or whatever. I unfortunately am still learning not to bite the hook. As soon as I do, it quickly gets flipped to me being the cause of her "insert anything here" problem.

It could be cleaning, kids homework, my work schedule, it really doesn't matter. Most of it is all just projection. If the house is dirty and she was supposed to clean it, I'm the worst husband in the world because I don't help enough around the house.

It continues until I'm no longer the devil and I get to be at peace for another week sometimes two.

[OffRoad]

I think that the pwBPD doesn't want to feel bad about themselves, so they set up a scenario where they can blame US for their issues, so they can feel better about themselves.

In the case of the birthday gift, if you had gotten her something that wasn't high value enough, she would have thought she must  be unworthy. She doesn't want that. So she sets YOU up so that you are the unworthy one. I don't necessarily think this is on a conscious level, though. She is just afraid she will feel unworthy. Had you given her a promissory note for some travel place she wants to go, that might have diverted the crisis but again, mindreading... .

I ran into something sort of similar. I was helping S with some woodburning, and I removed the screw in tip and flipped the switch to OFF, but didn't unplug it. H comes in and tells me I left the woodburning tool on. I said I turned the switch off. He insisted it was on. I knew it was off, I even looked again this morning and the switch is Off. But he had to make it into my fault so he could feel like he saved the day by unplugging it. Most likely because he felt bad because I was helping S and he wasn't. And they have no idea how foolish they look.

By the same token, I do think that they get angry about something in their own life, then have to pick a fight so they can get rid of their angry feelings by taking it out on you and making you the bad guy. Oddly enough, the more grounded I am, the more grounded my H has been getting. I think I've mentioned before, I love this site.

[eeks]

either (a) they set up a situation where you're expected to forcefully overrule them, thus making your intentions and actions all the more "true" (but to win at this game requires mind-reading powers). or (b) they set the double-bind up with the sole purpose of having something to complain about. But if the whole point of BPD is that feeling bad about yourself causes huge problems, why would you go out and start creating reasons to feel bad about yourself? Wouldn't you just not do that and be content with missing out on some pain? It would be the mental health equivalent of shooting your own foot.

I'm not "staying" (was in a brief r/s with a uBPD that was over months ago) but I had to comment on this because it reflects something I noticed, and still think about because I believe it has implications for anyone with any history of trauma or neglect, not just people with PDs.  

I noticed being put in this double-bind too.  I also had a uBPD friend last year for several months, we originally connected in large part over the commonalities in our personal growth journey (I have anxiety disorder and it took me a long time to find a therapist that helped) we were both intelligent and had read a lot of books, been to workshops, personal practices (I did yoga, she meditated).  So we had in depth conversations about our feelings, beliefs, experiences of life.  She once told me that she didn't want me to interpret or analyze what she said, because it prevented her from hearing her "inner voice"... .but another time when I didn't say anything, I was accused of not caring that she was upset.  

uBPD ex did that verbal double-bind too, but with him more often it was like, he would trust someone he really shouldn't, and then get taken advantage of, and then claim to be an innocent victim of this person who has done all these horrible things to him.  (I believed the stories at first and genuinely felt for him, and to be fair some of the things were really injustices, but I started to notice patterns.  I think he might have been susceptible to trauma bonding.)

His last relationship before me was with someone who, at least how he described her, was dysfunctional in every way you can imagine, lying, cheating, stealing, she even physically abused him, but he attempted suicide after she broke up with him and 2 years later he was still not over her.  Me, I am intelligent, not totally functional but definitely more so than her, compassionate... .and I make one mistake (I've chosen not to share here on these boards what I did, but I admit it was a mistake) and I'm o-u-t out.  

(out of his life, but maybe not out of his mind... .he rejected me, but later on the "how are you" maybe-attempt-at-recycle text msgs, he reacted when I so much as mentioned other men.)  

I keep posting this link about the grapefruits.  www.dianepooleheller.com/2015/01/video-4/  Notice where in discussing BPD she holds the two halves together just on one edge... .and how frightening it is for them to even begin to connect the split.

I think that's what's going on here.  People have to let them down, have to be either all good or all bad, because if they're not, if a person can be both good and bad... .or if a relationship can be ruptured and then repaired... .that means they then have to face the magnitude of the feelings associated with their abusive childhood.  Rage, shame, I can't even imagine.

So... .if I can be a good person who made a couple of bad choices, and he could love me... .then he'd have to see that he, too, as a good person who has done bad things, is lovable.  And that just turns eeeverything in his psychic structures upside down.

[ColdEthyl]

Eeks I think you are on to something. Things with my H have been getting a lot better since I've been on this site, but it seems like things are going well for us IE no fighting, that's the time he will say he's depressed because he doesn't do anything, he doesn't know why I married him, I'm going to find someone soon who works hard like I do and leave him, etc etc etc

It's like... .because I haven't been the 'bad guy', obviously I'm just a stupid person for being with him or I'm just hanging around until the next upgrade comes around. He can't accept that I love him and I mean it. He cannot accept I love him just the way he is. He will always... .always fall short in his head.

[maxsterling]

I am absolutely 100% convinced that pwBPD do this.  Probably not consciously, but I think this behaviors is mostly responsible for the complete mindFk/crazymaking/gas lighting us partners experience. 

My most recent and current example is this baby thing.  She's obsessed with wanting a child.  has been as long as I have known her.  She's been pushing and pushing to want to do it asap.  But every step I try to take in that direction is met with resistance and blame.  For example, I told her (and all her doctors told her) she has to get off her pain and anxiety meds first.  Who does she blame?  Me!  And today it was about not having enough money to have a child - again, blame is on me.  On one hand, I hear "I WANT A BABY NOW!"  and on the other hand is all the worry and anxiety about the stress it will cause her.

My conclusion?  She doesn't really want to have a baby.  But she wants to tell me she does, push it on me, and then have an excuse to rage at me should I show any resistance.  I THINK SHE WANTS A REASON TO HATE ME.  It's not conscious, though.  I think I become "all men from her past, including her father."  She's already got the conclusion that all men hate her and are out to make her life hell.  So she is trying to create problems in order to justify her vitriol.

[friskey]

I ran into something sort of similar. I was helping S with some woodburning, and I removed the screw in tip and flipped the switch to OFF, but didn't unplug it. H comes in and tells me I left the woodburning tool on. I said I turned the switch off. He insisted it was on. I knew it was off, I even looked again this morning and the switch is Off. But he had to make it into my fault so he could feel like he saved the day by unplugging it. Most likely because he felt bad because I was helping S and he wasn't. And they have no idea how foolish they look.

So true they cannot take the blame for anything. They are too emotionally sensertive to accept they made a mistake.


By the same token, I do think that they get angry about something in their own life, then have to pick a fight so they can get rid of their angry feelings by taking it out on you and making you the bad guy. Oddly enough, the more grounded I am, the more grounded my H has been getting. I think I've mentioned before, I love this site.

[/qote]Yes true again the more confident, strong and grounded. The better you find your pwBPD starts to respect. It take a long time and a lot of practice to get to that stage.

[Jessica84]

":)o they create problems solely to justify disregulation?"

Actually, I think they create problems as a way of regulating their emotions, rather than disregulating.

My uBPDbf once described it like this to me: he has a cup of emotions - once the cup gets full he has to find somewhere to dump it - so he creates a crisis to be able to release it. (He has his moments of clarity)

The no-win situations they put us in are real traps and are somewhat deliberate. But the intent is what's important here. They aren't trying to hurt us. They're trying to release what's hurting them inside. They release, they feel better. We become collateral damage. It's an unhealthy coping method but it's all my bf knows. If he feels too much of ANY emotion, he NEEDS to fight/argue with someone to release it. It overwhelms him. His cup is full. So he provokes. It used to irk me when he picked a fight out of nowhere... .but I don't take the bait anymore. Problem is, since we don't argue as much now, he finds new targets to paint black... .He still has to release it. Somewhere. Unless he learns new coping skills, I suppose he will continue to destroy friendships and his reputation, which isn't his intent at all. Sad.

[jcarter4856]

":)o they create problems solely to justify disregulation?"

Actually, I think they create problems as a way of regulating their emotions, rather than disregulating.

My uBPDbf once described it like this to me: he has a cup of emotions - once the cup gets full he has to find somewhere to dump it - so he creates a crisis to be able to release it. (He has his moments of clarity)

The no-win situations they put us in are real traps and are somewhat deliberate. But the intent is what's important here. They aren't trying to hurt us. They're trying to release what's hurting them inside.

Ah! I think you've discovered the Higgs Boson of BPD here. Really appreciate the insight. Now I need to figure out the optimal response. Thus far I have pretty much been a deer in the headlights when I've seen one of these situations being created for me. Choose the blue pill, or the option that produces least aggravation in the short term, which of course sets me up nicely for the big firework finale. Wondering what the right set of actions would be : pull them aside and say "look, I know you're setting up xxx failure for me, I'm on to you so cut it out"? or is there some more subtle tactic that might work?

[earthgirl]

I have always felt that my H does this.  I call it the "kick-the-dog" scenario.  

Example:  H HATES talking about finances.  I handle the finances, but it's always a sore subject, as we have different approaches to money. Two days ago I was paying our bills and saw an automatic draft that he agreed to stop several months ago (it's in his name, or I would have done it.)  He failed to handle it, which resulted in a negative balance in our checking account.  I went in the bedroom to talk to him about it, and he yelled at me for ten minutes about "asking him questions when he is busy" and told me (in all seriousness) that I needed to submit questions to him in writing, and only in the morning.  In the past, he has in fact asked me not to ask him questions when he's busy -- which I understand, and I've worked on not doing that.  In this instance, he had been home from work for almost four hours and was sitting on the bed, surfing on his laptop.  I was clearly following his request by waiting until he was definitely not busy to ask him about finances, and still I got a lecture, a temper tantrum (he threw a $1200.00 laptop on the stone floor, twice, where it smashed into many pieces) and the rules changed from don't-ask-unless-I-am-not-busy to submit-in-writing-during-morning-hours-only.

[Jessica84]

Wondering what the right set of actions would be : pull them aside and say "look, I know you're setting up xxx failure for me, I'm on to you so cut it out"? or is there some more subtle tactic that might work?

Ohhhh I've been soo tempted with the knock it off, I'm onto you! 

I wouldn't advise it though! That's the T in SET, but you'd need a lot more S and E before going there.

The wife's birthday gift is a classic Catch 22. If you don't buy her something nice, you don't care about her. If you do, you don't care about her - because she asked you not to - she was saving $$ for whatever she felt like she wanted in that moment... .which probably changed by the time her birthday rolled around. Your only real choice was to get her a nice gift anyway and hope for the best! "I know you told me not to, but I love you too much to ignore your birthday."

[jcarter4856]

Your only real choice was to get her a nice gift anyway and hope for the best! "I know you told me not to, but I love you too much to ignore your birthday."

Yeah but DW is a ninth-dan ninja at this unfortunately and has ensured that I have no actual capability to buy her gifts. Not only am I guilted into not doing so, I truly can't do so (boring details I won't go into but basically she watches all bank and credit card transactions online in real-time, runs the balances up to the max, and I have no accounts or cards that escape this NSA surveillance net). All the more galling given that I make all the money these days, and I make so much money that in reality I should be able to afford to buy her a really awesome gift were it not that said money had been taken out of my control. In the case of the smaller value gifts I did buy, I got all kinds of heat about putting them on the wrong card, the price was too high, etc.

fwiw we had also already gone on a "birthday celebration vacation" a few weeks prior, that cost $10k+, and we had planned a second more costly vacation some months later.

This may illustrate why I perceive that I've been cleverly set up

All suggestions as to how to get out of this web are welcome.

[letmeout]

This thread reminded me so much of my ex, that I will probably have a nightmare tonight! LOL

I know it isn't a laughing matter, living with someone who has BPD can be hell on earth sometimes.

I am so glad that I no longer have to deal with that kind of trauma. Now if I could just get over the past and move forward without those memories complicating my life. 

[Jessica84]

I don't know jcarter... .I haven't figured a way out of the no-win situations. It's like the maze changes course on me faster than I can learn it. Although I have to say, since using these tools I've learned here, he doesn't set me up nearly as often.

[jcarter4856]

and still I got a lecture, a temper tantrum (he threw a $1200.00 laptop on the stone floor, twice, where it smashed into many pieces) and the rules changed from don't-ask-unless-I-am-not-busy to submit-in-writing-during-morning-hours-only.

This reminded me of a video I found on YouTube a while back where they said "there's no such thing as BPD - these people are just asss. BPD is in fact just 'behaving like an ass' ".

[OffRoad]

This reminded me of a video I found on YouTube a while back where they said "there's no such thing as BPD - these people are just asss. BPD is in fact just 'behaving like an ass' ".

Does this mean there are no asss, just people with BPD?

[enlighten me]

I think the gift thing isnt to do with setting us up.

I think they are trying to be responsible when it comes to money but as statwd feelings equal facts so the fact you havent spent a lot means you dont love them because thats what it feels like to them.

its a catch 22situation as there is no way to win. If you buy big then you havent listened to their sensible side.

[waverider]

If you look at BPD drama you will often find there is no smoke without fire (ie the nugget of truth they are blowing up into a big deal). Just to complicate matters pwBPD can be firebugs in this environment (ie they often lit the fire). As the firebug however they don't seem to link their actions to the smoke

or

pwBPD =Firebug who lights a match under the non

Non reacting=Fire

Drama=smoke produce by fire

pwBPD does not link spark to smoke, so continues to play with matches

[waverider]

The no-win situations they put us in are real traps and are somewhat deliberate. But the intent is what's important here. They aren't trying to hurt us. They're trying to release what's hurting them inside. They release, they feel better. We become collateral damage. It's an unhealthy coping method but it's all my bf knows. If he feels too much of ANY emotion, he NEEDS to fight/argue with someone to release it. It overwhelms him. His cup is full. So he provokes. It used to irk me when he picked a fight out of nowhere... .but I don't take the bait anymore. Problem is, since we don't argue as much now, he finds new targets to paint black... .He still has to release it. Somewhere. Unless he learns new coping skills, I suppose he will continue to destroy friendships and his reputation, which isn't his intent at all. Sad.

Instability is not such a scary place to live when you aren't alone. They can't come to your emotional state so they draw you to their emotional state.

[earthgirl]

and still I got a lecture, a temper tantrum (he threw a $1200.00 laptop on the stone floor, twice, where it smashed into many pieces) and the rules changed from don't-ask-unless-I-am-not-busy to submit-in-writing-during-morning-hours-only.

This reminded me of a video I found on YouTube a while back where they said "there's no such thing as BPD - these people are just asss. BPD is in fact just 'behaving like an ass' ".

I think there are ***holes, and people with BPD, and ***holes with BPD.  I just hope I didn't marry a guy in the last category.  Still trying to figure it out.

[ColdEthyl]

H had a big ol temper tantrum last night. I was warming up some dinner, he came into the kitchen with a bright idea to make some nachos. The button on the oven is a little wonky... .it's slightly to the right of where it tell you to push to turn it on. He was getting frustrated with turning it on, so I went to help. I was showing him to look to the right to make it go up and down, he starts freaking out telling me to stop touching it... .that he had it exactly where he wants it. I said ok ok and backed off.

He started the lecture of me not stopping when he said stop. I said I understand I was getting in the way and I apologize. After that, he started to repeat himself over and over, yelling at me for the same thing over and over. Now, this is one behavior I am trying to reduce. I can handle a lot, but I won't listen to his circular arguments. From what I gather, he's still agitated/angry, and just keeps beating the dead horse until the poor thing is just bloody pulp.

So at first, I said "Honey... .I know. I understand. It's been covered. Please, let it go." This was wrong of me... .I realize that now that it comes out as invalidating, like his complaint wasn't important. I'll have to change my language in the future on this.

Anyways, he tries to yell again, and I tell him I will not have this conversation if he is going to yell, so I left the room. About 15 minutes later he comes to where I am, trying to restart the whole thing. But this time... .like usual... .he rewrites history.

He comes in claiming I yelled at him for telling me to stop. I did no such thing. I didn't even yell. I told him he was right about me not stopping the first time he asked me to, and I already apologized for that. What I was upset about was being yelled at about it repeatedly. I would not stand for it. Of course, the conversation keeps getting worse.

He says I need to listen to him because if we were in a apocalypse situation and he told me to put my head down and I didn't, I would get killed. I am not making this up. He compared me trying to show him how the oven worked to a zombie apocalypse. He then said he had the oven set at the perfect temperature, and I was trying to tell him how to make the nachos... .like the temperature he picked wasn't right. And by God... .he knows how to make nachos! And he was making them only for me!

I don't think he means to start these stupid arguments. It always boils down to whether or not he feels like he's "right" and everyone agrees with him. I certainly do not mean to keep the arguments going myself, but I'll be darned if I sit there and let him yell at me for hours about stupid crap like I used to. I kept asking him, how would you feel if I was yelling at you like this? Wouldn't it hurt you? Do you think a husband or a wife should yell at their spouse for something like this for this long? Every time I did, he stumbled a little... .calmed a little before blowing up again. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or not... .but I'm trying to show him what empathy looks like.

[adventurer]

Just had something like this happen last week that I found amusing. Was going to make a thread about it but it didn't seem important enough for it's own thing.

My wife was very anxious about an upcoming appointment so I was especially on my guard for this. One day it was getting later in the afternoon and she asked if I was planning to make lunch. I then realized how late it was getting so made some food and then told her 'lunch' is ready. She then gave me a sarcastic, angry line along the lines of 'I wouldn't call it lunch, it's so late'.

Instead of replying, 'what the heck, you just called it lunch 5 minutes ago', which would then escalate into a fight with her, I just smiled and said, 'call it whatever you want, but it's ready'.

She has all these free-floating emotions of anger, self-hatred and anxiety and instead of dealing them, she tries to create situations where I can be the bad guy and we get into an argument and then she can vent and rage at me and get these emotions out of herself.

[friskey]

Yes my SO has that same type of food issue.

One day I had come over late and he had a empty fridge. I was feeling hungry so I cooked

myself a omlette with the last few eggs. Then the rage started. I  am selfish for just cooking for myself only. I sould always share the food no matter what. bah bah bah. He then took it on himself to eat my omlett.

By then I just looked at him with amusement. Why get angry for such a reason. It makes no logical sense.

He later once he calmed down that his mother always shared what she cooked. If their was one slice of bread. It would be cut into 6 equal pieces. A piece for all members in his family.

I had no understanding of this because I am selfish in everything I do.

[Jessica84]

He says I need to listen to him because if we were in a apocalypse situation and he told me to put my head down and I didn't, I would get killed. I am not making this up. He compared me trying to show him how the oven worked to a zombie apocalypse.

A likely scenario... . 

I kept asking him, how would you feel if I was yelling at you like this? Wouldn't it hurt you? Do you think a husband or a wife should yell at their spouse for something like this for this long? Every time I did, he stumbled a little... .calmed a little before blowing up again. I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or not... .but I'm trying to show him what empathy looks like.

Asking those kinds of questions never works for me when he's in that state. It tends to lead to JADEing. It's so hard in the moment to end an argument like this. Or to remember to validate. I never know what else to do, other than repeat "hmmm... .you're right... .yup". If he still won't calm down I suddenly remember something I forgot at the store! A few minutes of raging by himself usually does the trick.

When it happens over something so small like this I wish I could rewind to the moment I made the big tragic mistake... .like getting the wrong soda, moving his keys, leaving a drawer open (you know, so he would purposely trip over it  ), or in your case... .showing him how to turn a knob and getting shot at by zombies!    But since I can't time travel... .it's yup... .uh-huh... .sorry... .you're right... .

[Jessica84]

I got the wrong order from Popeye's Chicken once... .they gave us child's meals. I didn't check the bag first, brought it over... .and it turned into I think he's fat and this was my passive-aggressive way of forcing him to diet.   

[jc2]

This happens with my partner a lot - I think she is scared of emotions such as peace and contentment and only feels safe with all the angry, nasty negative ones.

[waverider]

This happens with my partner a lot - I think she is scared of emotions such as peace and contentment and only feels safe with all the angry, nasty negative ones.

Attempting to sync the environment with her emotions, rather than the more healthy approach of doing it the other way around

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ColdEthyl]

I got the wrong order from Popeye's Chicken once... .they gave us child's meals. I didn't check the bag first, brought it over... .and it turned into I think he's fat and this was my passive-aggressive way of forcing him to diet.   

A restaurant forgot cheese on his burger once and I didn't check the meals before I got home. It was "I didn't care enough about him to check"   This was early on when I didn't know where the heck that come from.

Asking those kinds of questions never works for me when he's in that state. It tends to lead to JADEing. It's so hard in the moment to end an argument like this. Or to remember to validate. I never know what else to do, other than repeat "hmmm... .you're right... .yup". If he still won't calm down I suddenly remember something I forgot at the store! A few minutes of raging by himself usually does the trick.

When it happens over something so small like this I wish I could rewind to the moment I made the big tragic mistake... .like getting the wrong soda, moving his keys, leaving a drawer open (you know, so he would purposely trip over it  ), or in your case... .showing him how to turn a knob and getting shot at by zombies!    But since I can't time travel... .it's yup... .uh-huh... .sorry... .you're right... .

And it doesn't. I know it doesn't, but sometimes I get really tired of "uh huh. Yep. You're right." He demands me to say he was right... .he wants those exact words said and it will continue if I don't say it. I told him I've already apologized, and I'm not doing it again. I told him I feel bullied when the conversation gets this way.

I'm just not gonna put up with his fluff anymore. I can listen, be supportive and understanding, but I'm not going to be bullied. He had a bad day on Friday. I knew it when I texted him after work asking if he needed anything from the store, and he said he missed me terribly and just needs me to come home. Anytime he's missing me... .he's dysregulating and wants me home.

I had asked him to move our 2nd car from the driveway so I could get the one I was driving in. He did not do it. So, I went and grabbed the keys to swap the cars. I kept a smile on my face and didn't say a word about it. He asked me what i was doing, I said moving the cars. He says "Oh! Sorry! I was supposed to do that today!" I said that's ok hun... .no biggie it will only take me a sec.

I move them around, come back in and start taking my shoes off. He was talking about something he read... .and mid-sentence got angry at me. He asked me what he did wrong... .why I was mad at him. I tried to keep the surprise off my face, but I didn't. I told him I wasn't angry at him at all. He starts yelling at me that he can tell from my face.

Calmly, I told him I was going to take a drive for 15 minutes and come back. We could talk when I get back if he's calm.

Suddenly, he panically says "No! I don't want you to go!" So, he calmed down and didn't yell or accuse anymore. He went back to talking about the thing he was reading and all was forgotten.

I hate using that "I'm going to leave" thing... .but it's been working. I think in this case... .he was upset he forgot to move the car, so he was projecting that I would be mad... .even though I wasn't.

[Oooohm]

Instability is not such a scary place to live when you aren't alone. They can't come to your emotional state so they draw you to their emotional state.

Attempting to sync the environment with her emotions, rather than the more healthy approach of doing it the other way around

These are "too good" to only be seen once in this thread... .  Thumbs up Waverider

Jcarter,

I noticed you said your wife is 100% in control of the finances... .  I am sorry to tell you if she has BPD, she is not in control of the finances at all. It may be an eye opener for you but I recommend you pull all credit card statements, mortgage paperwork, any bill or debt that can and will charge you interest and late fees... .  Highlight in yellow any and all Interest and late fees over the last year, add them all up... .  you may be utterly shocked at how much $$ is flying out your door. Never mind her "Self Medicating" spending on "Stuff you guys need" (Don't really need).

Do it when she is not around... .otherwise you are in for a bigger problem.

[jcarter4856]

I noticed you said your wife is 100% in control of the finances... . I am sorry to tell you if she has BPD, she is not in control of the finances at all. It may be an eye opener for you but I recommend you pull all credit card statements, mortgage paperwork, any bill or debt that can and will charge you interest and late fees... . Highlight in yellow any and all Interest and late fees over the last year, add them all up... . you may be utterly shocked at how much $$ is flying out your door.

Good advice. As it turns out I'm aware of the details of the outgoings and I made sure I have passwords to all the accounts, and check them regularly. But yes, the scenario you outline is pretty much what's happening. Due to the fact that I'm lucky enough to be able to make a great deal of money, I'm not too worried about the spending side of things. Or at least, I'm willing to let it ride for the time being. Some aspects of her financial management are fun and interesting for me too I did know that DW had financial responsibility issues long before I discovered BPD and have had a very long standing policy of tying money up in places that are hard to get it out of, as a countermeasure. So there's that. But if I were not able to generate a enough money to pour into the top of the bucket with the hole in the bottom, it'd be very bad for sure. Meanwhile... .I enjoy my status as deadbeat loser failure member of the 1% 

[Hmcbart]

Ooohm : JC-

I know exactly what your saying. My wife feels the need to be in charge of the finances also. Of course it my fault because 20 years ago I bounced a $10 check. Granted I am in the finance business now and deal with million dollar accounts, but to her I still can't balance a check book. 

I have all of our bills set up so they send me an email the minute they are late. At that point I call her and then go online and make a payment. I had thought about check to see how much I've paid in late fees but I don't want to open that can of worms. I know it would trigger me and that's not needed at the moment. 

[letmeout]

Sometimes when my ex would go into an uncontrollable rage I would calmly ask 'do you need me to call an ambulance?' and he would immediately shut up and change his tune. It didn't always work, but sometimes it did!

[friskey]

It has been a while since my last post.    The singer actess Rita Oria had a great quote I saw in a magazine.   It was so simple I just have to quote it on this site.  'I have learnt to choose my battles'.  So simple but so far I am finding it effective.  If the battle is worth fighting then fight. If not do not waste precious energy.

[letmeout]

The topic of food: I once took a bite of his sancho thinking it was mine and he threw the entire thing in the garbage because I touched it. He had this thing about food; you couldn't touch his but yet he would devour half of mine whenever the mood struck him.

The topic of gifts: No matter what anyone bought him, he would get mad that he got a bad gift. Even if it was a great gift!

He bought me gifts meant for him all the time. A bowling ball for Christmas with his finger holes cut in it (he said since it didn't fit me then he could use it). Fishing or hunting equipment (that he could use since I didn't fish or hunt. Nothing was for me personally, it always had to end up as his.

[Butterfly12]

I would say yes.

As I read through all these, I am in shock by how many of you have partners that sound exactly like my husband. Including the financial piece. For years, he did all the finances. Then I took it over. But he wouldn't stop spending money (writing checks and using his debit card) we didn't have. When he saw all the overdrafts from the bank on the next statement he was so embarrassed he told me I made a mistake. I looked it over and discovered almost $200 of fees, and when I told him this he told me I was doing it wrong and he wanted to take responsibility back because he was the one "actually working" and all I did was take care of the kids.



Also, I have found that the most constructive way when my husband launches into a new pissed off nothingness is to not engage. It's probably not the right way to handle it, and he usually gets pissed off royally that I am not reacting with reaction he wants, to pull me into his anger, but it saves me the frustration and feeling like I was sucked into something I didn't want to be a part of.

He does this so frequently it's exhausting. And if he can't get me to react, he keeps trying. It's like he wants to prove over and over that I am the one with anger issues... .and the further I step back, and the calmer I get the more upset he does. However, no one sees this except us and our marriage counselor. And he tries to hide as much as he can from our counselor... .

[Wrongturn1]

Jcarter:  I like the way you think... .if fact, I wish I could sit down and have a beer with you and swap BPD stories sometime, but my uBPDw would accuse me of having been at the bar with some other woman instead, or maybe oogling the waitress, etc., so it would probably be more trouble for me than it was worth, LOL.   

But yes, I think they do create problems or situations to justify dysregulation.  For instance, awhile back, before I knew about BPD, my wife was chastising me, saying, "I think it's really morbid and unhealthy that you haven't deleted all those emails from your best friend from college [a guy, mind you] who died 5 years ago."  Thinking I must be the one with the issues, I took her advice and deleted the emails.  Then a month later, she comes back at me and says "I can't believe you deleted all those emails from your friend who died - you are a cold hearted person; you don't care about anyone; you want me to die... ." dysregulation ad nauseum... . 

Eventually I wised up, and these days, I do a better job of not stepping into those traps.  These days, I try to let her "enjoy" her crisis of the day without getting involved.