Is it me or him, or both?

[DreamerGirl]

Please advise:

I may have overreacted, I do not know... .

Briefly a week ago, we went out to a concert, he was tense as he usually his when there are other people near me.

When we got home, sorry if this is TMI, I tried to be loving to him.

He turned quite aggressive and told me to "go touch yourself".

I felt really hurt, so I went and slept in the spare room.

Next morning he woke me up, saying how much attitude I had etc. 

I didn't bite, but I felt very uncomfortable trying to pretend everything was normal when I felt upset.

So when I got up, I said I had some plans which he knew meant he needed to leave my place.

He left.

We have not communicated since, which is nearly a week.

My emotions are a little up and down.

I feel angry, I feel he owes he an apology.  I feel angry he hasn't even bothered to make any contact with me.  I feel like he can get stuffed because I am worth more.

I hope I can stay strong... .

But I do wonder, am I being overly sensitive, is it ok for someone who loves you to push you away aggressively and say the words he said?  I grew up being told I was over sensitive, maybe I am, I wish I knew... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

No you were not being over sensitive. how to break the deadlock is the real question.

Did you outright ask him if there was a problem, or if there was anything he needed to get off his chest? At the moment you only have assumptions to go on.

If he says nothing then eventually carries on like it never happened there will be no resolution for you. To avoid this you may have to prompt him to spit it out. It may cause a conflict, but you may have to work through it to get past it.

You do not need to apologize or explain anything until he states what his issues are. You are not a mind reader

[DreamerGirl]

Hi waverider, thanks for replying, yes we are still in the deadlock it seems and I'm still only going on assumptions.

It's now 8 days without either of us attempting any contact.

I have no idea what is happening in his mind, but if past behaviour is anything to go on, then I would feel certain he has laid the blame for his behaviour at my feet.

This is the longest we have ever been apart and without contact in any form, I feel so many mixed emotions, numb, hurt, sad, confused and angry at times. 

I don't feel like contacting him because then he will see that he can treat me disrespectfully then ignore me and I will come crawling back to him.  I feel he needs to be the one to come around, if he does, then we can talk. 

[waverider]

Hi waverider, thanks for replying, yes we are still in the deadlock it seems and I'm still only going on assumptions.

It's now 8 days without either of us attempting any contact.

I have no idea what is happening in his mind, but if past behaviour is anything to go on, then I would feel certain he has laid the blame for his behaviour at my feet.

This is the longest we have ever been apart and without contact in any form, I feel so many mixed emotions, numb, hurt, sad, confused and angry at times. 

I don't feel like contacting him because then he will see that he can treat me disrespectfully then ignore me and I will come crawling back to him.  I feel he needs to be the one to come around, if he does, then we can talk. 

Being the first to speak is not being the first to capitulate /apologize / making out that things are OK. It is simply opening the door to dialogue. Inviting him up on to the stage (or soap box) so that he can open the discussion.

The longer it goes on the more buried the original issue becomes

[DreamerGirl]

That is such good advice waverider.  I find it hard to know how to do that.  I'm not sure why it is so hard for me to be the first to reach out, i feel frozen.  I'm trying to understand myself and find what the issue is with me, why I am like this.  I have done this before, not with him but with a very close friend, who for some reason which I will never know, I felt, started rejecting my attempts to spend time together, so I just stopped all contact and walked away.  I think I do this when I feel hurt.  I need to work on this, it's not the best method.  I feel very anxious at the thought of making contact.

After my last post, he has called me twice in two hours, I had my phone on silent, I was out at lunch with my family, so I missed the calls.  He didn't leave a message.  Now I do not know whether to text him, call or just leave it. 

[waverider]

That is such good advice waverider.  I find it hard to know how to do that.  I'm not sure why it is so hard for me to be the first to reach out, i feel frozen.  I'm trying to understand myself and find what the issue is with me, why I am like this.  I have done this before, not with him but with a very close friend, who for some reason which I will never know, I felt, started rejecting my attempts to spend time together, so I just stopped all contact and walked away.  I think I do this when I feel hurt.  I need to work on this, it's not the best method.  I feel very anxious at the thought of making contact.

After my last post, he has called me twice in two hours, I had my phone on silent, I was out at lunch with my family, so I missed the calls.  He didn't leave a message.  Now I do not know whether to text him, call or just leave it. 

Text back or he will assume you are ignoring him and it will go from bad to worse... .Simply "sorry missed your calls because of XYZ, how are you? Do you want to talk?... .xx'. Then see what happens.


Your reluctance comes down to personal insecurities. You are afraid of being blamed, for if you are you will end up feeling fully to blame. This is made worse by your struggle to maintain personal boundaries.  All or nothing so you hide from the confrontation

Do you feel worthless at times?

[DreamerGirl]

I love your wisdom, thank you waverider.

I was hoping to hear back from you as I did not know what to do. 

Before i got time to figure out what to do and text him back from the missed phone calls, he sent me a text message saying 'he was calling to tell me he loved me and he felt so miserable and alone without knowing if I wanted to be in his arms'.

I texted him back and said I missed him and loved him also. He texted back asking could he see me this evening. He said, I don't want to talk and risk a problem, as much as I want you in my arms and tell you I love you. 

Yes, I do at times feel very worthless.  I'm still learning how to respect myself, and struggle with personal boundaries, although I am a lot better than in the past.

My feeling of worthless is the really hard one to change.

Most of my friends think I have a high self esteem.  That's only on the outside.  It's hard to undo the damage from the past but I will always strive to be the best I can.

[paintingitblack]

It doesn't sound to me like you overreacted. If he didn't want to have sexual relations there was certainly a more appropriate way to go about telling you that. I think it was good you stood your ground and weren't quick to call him. I think letting them come to you when they're ready to talk is wise. Many people in relationships with BPDs are very co-dependent and would be blowing up their pBPD's phone even if they didn't feel in the wrong. That in my experience repels the individual with BPD. I am glad to hear he initiated contact with you so a dialogue can begin. I think my advice on here is less of stuff you would find in a psychology book than most other posters... .but from personal experience I believe it to be true. I am not a therapist or even an expert... .just a guy with some life experience.

[DreamerGirl]

paintingitblack, thank you, I feel like we are on the same page.  My instinct knew he would push me away if i chased after him when he treated me bad.  I need to love myself and expect other people, especially him, to treat me with respect.

I always treat someone how they treat me, I do not know if that is right or wrong, but I always do it.

There was an appropriate way of turning me off my loving actions, he just reacted hurtful and abrupt and spiteful.  A simple apology, the next morning would have made the world of difference to me.  I can move on if my partner acknowledges and validates my feelings.

[paintingitblack]

One thing I am fully aware of at this point but still struggle with out of my own stubbornness is when my BPD partner is in one of his moods... .there is no talking sense or ration with him. Eventually something will click where I can talk to him and even if we don't see eye to eye on everything the conversation is productive in some sense. I should really wait until he is relatively grounded to have a conversation at all, otherwise it's a waste of time. When he is in a BPD jealous fit of sorts it's literally like talking to a brick wall.

Honestly you can this about anyone when they're angry... .typically it's not the best time to talk to someone BPD or not. However I see people with BPD as having a normal persons emotions on steroids. When they are happy and they like something they REALLY like it (idealize it even) but when they are upset they're REALLY upset(devalue). And unlike say bi-polar disorder these moods typically last a few days to as much as over a week or more in bad circumstances but are less frequent. Where often bi-polar lows will come and go within a few hours or less.

[DreamerGirl]

paintingitblack I think like you.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me.

I am very stubborn, never really thought that about myself until recently.  Is that a bad trait?  I'm not sure, but I feel good when I am more humble and vulnerable.

To let my guard down is the hardest for me.  I have this strong resilent girl who I think and act like I me, but shes not.  I am strong sometimes, I can be resilient, but I get very  hurt, and it's the hurt I find so hard to admit too.  I feel like admitting hurt makes me weak and vulnerable and opens the door to more pain.l

[paintingitblack]

I think a little bit of stubbornness can be healthy. It ensures you stand up for what you believe in and have a backbone. Many people in your situation would have apologized just to try to smooth things over with their SO. Doing anything and everything all in hopes to salvage the relationship and ensure he doesn't leave you. Which more often than not has the opposite of intended result. Also don't be so ashamed of some insecurity. You're only human. Humans are vulnerable by nature. The fact you put on an act of sorts to mask it isn't healthy if it prevents you from analyzing your weaknesses and insecurities. There is obviously a limit as to which vulnerability is healthy. However maybe there is something to the phrase "fake it til you make it". Much like everything in life, it is all about finding that balance.

[waverider]

Stubbornness and caving can be avoided once you learn not to be reactive. Being reactive sends you into a corner that is hard to get out of.

Most BPD issues are repetitive, so you get plenty of time to take note, take a breath and ponder on it. If you don't have the answer this time call it a practice run for next time. As there will be a next time and you will be prepared. Not being taken by total surprise and having a plan means you are not trying to "wing it'. Winging it is BPD territory and they will knock you of balance if you try it.

Stubbornness does not always come out appropriately. Whereas predetermined values and boundaries are more appropriate. You are more capable of sticking to them without doubts or regrets.

Without prepared boundaries, you may be stubborn and it may go horribly wrong, so you doubt yourself and next time you cave. This creates inconsistencies and shows them that you can be overturned with pressure. You start digging yourself a deeper hole of self doubt.

pwBPD will pressure you for an immediate reaction... .Don't, pause, create a space, check your values and the bigger picture and come back to it with a clearer head. Remember also less is safer. The more you say or do the more room there is to pick holes in it.

You thoughts and feelings have value, and you are not obliged to have to sell them in order to convey them. They are yours to own and not for anyone else to take from you.

Waverider

[paintingitblack]

Stubbornness and caving can be avoided once you learn not to be reactive. Being reactive sends you into a corner that is hard to get out of.

Most BPD issues are repetitive, so you get plenty of time to take note, take a breath and ponder on it. If you don't have the answer this time call it a practice run for next time. As there will be a next time and you will be prepared. Not being taken by total surprise and having a plan means you are not trying to "wing it'. Winging it is BPD territory and they will knock you of balance if you try it.

Stubbornness does not always come out appropriately. Whereas predetermined values and boundaries are more appropriate. You are more capable of sticking to them without doubts or regrets.

Without prepared boundaries, you may be stubborn and it may go horribly wrong, so you doubt yourself and next time you cave. This creates inconsistencies and shows them that you can be overturned with pressure. You start digging yourself a deeper hole of self doubt.

pwBPD will pressure you for an immediate reaction... .Don't, pause, create a space, check your values and the bigger picture and come back to it with a clearer head. Remember also less is safer. The more you say or do the more room there is to pick holes in it.

You thoughts and feelings have value, and you are not obliged to have to sell them in order to convey them. They are yours to own and not for anyone else to take from you.

Waverider

This! So much yes! Great post.

[DreamerGirl]

Thank you paintingitblack and waverider, it's really given me a lot to think about. 

paintingitblack, yes fake it til you make it resonates well with me.  That seems quite natural to me.  Being in situations where I am feeling very uncomfortable but pretending... .

Fake it til you make it is initially hiding your feelings.  Trying to change the way we feel by pretending and acting, and sometimes it does work.  I was a very shy kid, with many anxiety problems, but I, over the years, have faked so many feelings and pretended to feel confident and secure, that I actually think I am a lot of the time.

waverider, thank you for such an insightful post.  You really give me such a lot of valuable information.

I had never really realized or thought about how inconsistent I am with my boundaries.  One day I can be very firm on them, and the next day, due to my own feelings of insecurity, I will loosen them. 

Amazingly true: also less is safer. The more you say or do the more room there is to pick holes in it.  I am really working hard on this, keeping my thoughts close to my chest, so he can't use this as ammunition against me.

My thoughts have value.  Wow, I have never thought that way before.  I guess I have always thought other people including BPDbf are better than me, never thought that my thoughts were worth much, but I am going to really own that I am entitled and worth my opinions.  Thank you waverider.

[waverider]

re: faking it . I wouldn't pretend to be something you are not. Knowing what you want, and working on getting there sometimes means playing the part until it becomes natural. However, don't act in a way that is contrary to your end goal,it reinforces the wrong precedent.