How do you shake off the negative?

[Depression = 72% of members]

My H's initial response to most ideas is negative, especially if I bring them up. I have gotten used to this aspect of his personality. If the idea is reasonable, then he often comes around after thinking about it.

In the early years of our marriage, H painted me black, expressed resentment for his feeling trapped, and also had resented the expense of me and the kids, even though he wanted them ( they were planned), and is generous to us. Because of the way I was raised, not to ask too much of my parents, and my H's negativity, I have not asked much from him for myself personally. I think I have been a good financial deal for him, having been a good domestic worker/nanny/ with benefits over the years ( sarcasm here).  I also think he loves me, in spite of the negativity and he has said many times that he is glad he married me, and he adores the kids.

As time goes on, my fingers have gotten larger and I have to resize my rings. Some of my friends have reset theirs and I got the idea to do this for an upcoming anniversary. It is not my style to ask for something extravagant so what I would want would be affordable.

Ordinarily I can withstand the negative first response but this time, I was just so excited about the idea that when I got the negative response I just started to cry which led to him defending his right to know more information before he agrees to it.  This time, I didn't JADE, but mentioned that" I just got the idea and don't have any information, I was just happy and excited about it. I hoped you would notice that. " and then didn't say more.

My H has expressed remorse for how he treated me in the early years of our marriage, and resetting the engagement ring would be a special symbolic gesture to me, as I don't have happy memories associated with it. Anniversaries are kind of difficult milestones for me too because of that.

He now feels like a jerk and is saying " go pick out whatever ring you want and let me know". He does want to pick it out with me. My magical wish is that he would have not been negative in the first place and just said " I would love to give you this" ( he can afford it). What would mean the most about it would be how it was given, not just the ring. I could have bought a new ring by myself, but I wanted to wear the one he gave me in a new setting . How does one shake the sadness from something that would be special?

[Notwendy]

My H's initial response to most ideas is negative, especially if I bring them up. I have gotten used to this aspect of his personality. If the idea is reasonable, then he often comes around after thinking about it.

In the early years of our marriage, H painted me black, expressed resentment for his feeling trapped, and also had resented the expense of me and the kids, even though he wanted them ( they were planned), and is generous to us. Because of the way I was raised, not to ask too much of my parents, and my H's negativity, I have not asked much from him for myself personally. I think I have been a good financial deal for him, having been a good domestic worker/nanny/ with benefits over the years ( sarcasm here).  I also think he loves me, in spite of the negativity and he has said many times that he is glad he married me, and he adores the kids.

As time goes on, my fingers have gotten larger and I have to resize my rings. Some of my friends have reset theirs and I got the idea to do this for an upcoming anniversary. It is not my style to ask for something extravagant so what I would want would be affordable.

Ordinarily I can withstand the negative first response but this time, I was just so excited about the idea that when I got the negative response I just started to cry which led to him defending his right to know more information before he agrees to it.  This time, I didn't JADE, but mentioned that" I just got the idea and don't have any information, I was just happy and excited about it. I hoped you would notice that. " and then didn't say more.

My H has expressed remorse for how he treated me in the early years of our marriage, and resetting the engagement ring would be a special symbolic gesture to me, as I don't have happy memories associated with it. Anniversaries are kind of difficult milestones for me too because of that.

He now feels like a jerk and is saying " go pick out whatever ring you want and let me know". He does want to pick it out with me. My magical wish is that he would have not been negative in the first place and just said " I would love to give you this" ( he can afford it). What would mean the most about it would be how it was given, not just the ring. I could have bought a new ring by myself, but I wanted to wear the one he gave me in a new setting . How does one shake the sadness from something that would be special?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Hmcbart]

I hate that this happened to you. I can understand how hurt you must feel by it all. I can only speak from my own experience because every situation is different. I would take some solace in the fact that he has expressed remorse over how he treated you.

As I'm sure you are aware of, someone with BPD actually accepting responsibility for their actions and then expressing remorse. That's a rare little ray of sunshine.

My situation isn't much different accept that my wife has never accepted responsibility for her actions and never felt or acted remorseful. I remember Father's Day about 8 years ago. She was out of town with our kids visiting relatives. We had just bought a new house and I needed a lawnmower.

I went and bout it without consulting her. It cost about $300, not a giant expense. She got home and told me that she had ordered me a new BBQ grill for Father's Day but after I bought the mower, she figured I didn't want the grill and took it back. I felt like she kicked me in the stomach and knocked my breath out of me.

It was a mean and spiteful thing to do to someone.

So, how do I get over events like that, and there are many and some worse. I make sure that it doesn't happen to someone else. I protect my kids from things like this happening, she has tried to do this to our oldest.

As you can tell, you never really get over some things. You just move forward. I learned long ago never to say "it can't get any worse" as soon as you do, it will get worse. I now just say "ok, what's next". You can't stop life from happening, the good and the bad. It's going to go on wether you want it to or not.

Put your chin up, smile and say "ok, what's next".

Also, if you play Call of Duty style video games, rename the computer players to people who upset you and blast away. 

[Ceruleanblue]

Wow, I can really relate to this post. I have quite a few things or events that should have happy memories attached, but BPDh tends to sabotage things. He agrees, and knows he does this.

Could you still pick the ring out together, and tell him that how he presents it matters? He sounds remorseful, so might be open to making it right for you? Approach him with this when he's in a good place emotionally. Make a special outing of picking it out, and then a special dinner of him presenting it?

Maybe every time that initial thought of his first reaction pops in your head, think of his remorse instead, and eventually you'll have a better memory to attach to the new ring(him presenting it).  

I know just how you feel though, because BPDh and I picked out my diamond, then my setting, and after I got it he make some rude comment about it/me(during a dysregulated time months after I got it), and I can hardly look at it without thinking of that. I so appreciated the ring, but his mean comments ruined that for me. I plan to have it reset, and do exactly what I stated above, so I can have happy memories attached.

This new ring for me is going to symbolize us getting to a healthier, better place in our marriage, which we are. You can be sure he'll know that, and what it means to me. I just hope he'll actually believe me, and listen.

[Notwendy]

Oh that is so hurtful- Hmcbart lawnmower that you bought for yourself  isn't a Father's day gift! I guess they don't have a clue sometimes, but yes, showing some remorse is a big step.

I don't play video games, but my kids do. Maybe I need to go check on who they named the characters after!

[Ceruleanblue]

Hmcbart:

I can't believe she took the grill back. That was a gift! Does she not get the concept of a gift? I guess this is common with BPD. My BPDh usually gets me a small gift on Mother's Day, even though initially I hadn't expected that of him. This year, he didn't even say "Happy Mother's Day", and when I expressed disappointment, he didn't seem to understand. Then, later this same day, he buys himself motorcycle boots and leather jacket. I mentioned he could "make it up to me", and still zippo two days later. Oh, and he works by Walmart, and a huge mall.

Bottom line is that so many with BPD are also highly narcissistic, and selfish. I'm not being mean, it's just fact. WE don't matter to them they way they do to us, and they lack skills, and sometimes empathy, so their slights are easy for them to forget. Boy, we'd sure be awful if we ever did the same crap to them though! It's so sad it's almost funny.

[Notwendy]

Ceruleanblue-

Sorry that you have gone through a similar thing. Maybe it is common for them to sabotage the commitments, the push pull thing, but yes, the sad memories attached to what could be happy times is tough. I don't like to look at my wedding pictures either.

I don't know what I will say to him or how much to say. I think he gets it. However, if I say too much about it it will trigger a " you are trying to rub my nose in it - what do you want me to do- grovel? " response.

No, I don't want him to grovel but too much explaining goes down that path.

I hope you get the happy ring with the happier memories. Me too.

As to Father's Day- my kids had something they had to do that day. I planned ahead to have Father's Day celebration the day before- made a nice dinner. I bought a gift. But on Father's Day I got raged at for not doing it on that day. He didn't like the gift either at the time, but ended up liking it later. Still, the rage was awful. I don't think I have it in me to do any of the crap they do, but I think it would be an apocalypse.  

[ColdEthyl]

Sorry this happened to you, NotWendy *hugs*

In your situation, the fact he's remorseful and willing to do something to try to make it up is huge. It doesn't change the disappointment of the initial contact, though. How I deal with that when it happens to me is to just keep reminding myself he's selfish first and foremost, and it's not on purpose. He can't see past himself.

What I have started doing is buying my own presents. If he doesn't like it... .which he doesn't, then he can choose to go out and pick something otherwise... .I'm getting me something I want. That's exactly how I told him. He feels badly... .but it's his choice. He can choose to think of a gift and go get it.

What mine does... .the bugger... .is want to play with whatever I got myself. For Mother's Day, I bought myself a new video game. It just came in the mail this afternoon. He texts me to let me know it's there, and how he's having a hard time not starting the game. *ahem* It's mine. I SHOULD get to open and play with it first. I told him not to dare. He can play the game he's playing and he can play this one when he's finished with the one he has.

[Hmcbart]

Sadly the mower was a necessity not a want for me.

I try to do things to be romantic and sentimental for her. Especially for our anniversary. The engagement ring I got her is a one if a kind. I actually sat with the jeweler and designed it. After it was made I kept the mold and there isn't another like it.

So I can understand the meaning behind it for you. My wife gained some weight in the last few years. This happens with kids and also with getting older. There was also some issues with sitting around the house all the time but I don't bring that up. Anyway her fingers got bigger also.

I offered several times to take her to get it resized. She always shot me down and didn't want to. I even tried to take it without her to have it done. Yes I know that wasn't my brightest idea, nothing to compare it to and all. I stopped wearing mine for about 6 months before she finally noticed.

As a guy, I don't get a lot of thought to my feelings about these things. We're supposed to be the strong ones who don't think of this stuff. But when your the only one who does in the relationship, it's difficult to not be upset when someone steps on your happiness.

If you can find a way to change your feelings about it Wendy, good for you. You will be happier in the long run.

[Notwendy]

Oh gosh if I touched my kids' games they would be screaming.

I also can't touch my H's stuff... .it is his stuff.

His solution to buying something for me that he wants is to buy it for him too.

He isn't wanting a pretty dainty ring though, so I think I'm good. Also, I want a say in this. He picked out the rings he gave me. I like them and think they are nice, but this time, I really want to look at them and choose something that I like myself. I will include him, but he has strong opinions and tends to assert his over mine. Part of this is having my own voice about what ring I want too.

[Notwendy]

Aww that is so sweet about the ring. I am sure resizing them is about her being self conscious.  Fingers and feet swelled when I got pregnant and didn't ever go back to the same size, and the rings just slowly got uncomfortable over time.

It is somewhat depressing to have things not fit well, but kids, time, gravity, hormonal changes, we all are subjected to it. It is sweet of you to let your wife know you love her as she is now.

[Hmcbart]

Yah, I'm not allowed to touch her stuff either. But she doesn't play video games so I don't have to worry about that one.

Buying it for yourself is a great idea. You can attach what ever memories you want to it. I've started doing things like that for my birthday and Father's Day. Before the kids got older, my birthday and Father's Day were just another day during the week. I may get a Walmart bag with a card occasionally if anything.

Now that the kids are older they are the ones who push her to do things for my birthday and Father's Day. Although this year for Valentine's Day I got me a new video game. She was very mad but I suspect it was because she didn't get me anything until after she found out I had bought that for myself.

And I have tried to treat her the way she treats me. I even asked her if I treated her the way she treats me would that make her happy. She was completely against that idea. When I started actually doing it, she was angry for 2 months. And yet nothing has changed.

So buy a nice dainty ring and ask if he would like to wear it.  

[Hmcbart]

Aww that is so sweet about the ring. I am sure resizing them is about her being self conscious.  Fingers and feet swelled when I got pregnant and didn't ever go back to the same size, and the rings just slowly got uncomfortable over time.

It is somewhat depressing to have things not fit well, but kids, time, gravity, hormonal changes, we all are subjected to it. It is sweet of you to let your wife know you love her as she is now.

I'm just waiting on it to be reciprocated. But all the negative feelings she has about herself and her weight gain get projected right at me. It's like a sick and twisted funhouse mirror. I can tell her everyday that I still love her as much as when me net 20 years ago but that counts for exactly zip when I'm painted black.

[ColdEthyl]

Well, a lot of it has to do with what gift giving does to their psyche. (Or lack of gift giving in most of our cases) I know for my H, he just doesn't think of it until it's too late... .or he doesn't know what to get... .doesn't want to ask... .gets nervous about picking something out. Stalls... .runs out of time... .feels bad... .dysregulation.

That's why i just took it off of his plate. It's not worth it to me to have him go through that every holiday/gift giving occasion comes up. I won't get any joy out of the gift knowing he didn't enjoy getting it. If he wants to get one on his own... .that's fine. I give him all the time he needs. If he strikes out by a day or two before the event... .than I buy myself something.

That isn't to say I'm not still sad sometimes that things are not different. I do but... .he can't do it. I just... .think of the times he did come up with a gift... .how happy he was to give it to me... .how happy he was with himself.

[Notwendy]

Posting this because this story resonated with me when I first heard it. Now, I see it as a bit co-dependent- we shouldn't need someone to make us into a 10 cow husband or wife, but I think everyone would like to be one to our spouses.

Strangely though how this doesn't seem to be reciprocated in our relationships. That " do unto others " rule isn't a two way street. Sometimes, I felt more like I was being treated like a cow, not something worth 10 of them. But I can treat myself like I am.    We all can. I also admire those of us who do treat our spouses well, even in the face of difficulty.

" Johnny Lingo  lived on an island where the dowry for young brides was one, two or three cows.  Very occasionally one might pay four, but that would be a highly unusual case.  The price was a very public figure.  The men and women of the island and the neighboring islands would all know what a wife had cost and at least to a certain degree, has a pecking order that developed socially based in part on the price that had been paid for the woman.  Johnny Lingo had known a certain man and his two daughters since childhood.  He made contact with this man about bargaining for the hand of one of his daughters.  The man assumed it would be his younger daughter who was considered more attractive—maybe even a three-cow wife.  His older daughter, Sarita, was painfully shy and considered by many to be rather plain or homely.  The truth was he hoped he could negotiate one cow, but would be willing for the burden of her support and clothing to be taken for free.  Johnny Lingo, on the other hand, was known to be a shrewd bargainer and the richest man in the islands, never paying too much for anything he purchased.  The story goes that Johnny Lingo came to Sarita’s island and offered ten cows (or eight cows depending on the version of the story one adheres to) for the older daughter, Sarita, whom he had known since childhood.  The father quickly accepted and had the village chief perform the wedding before Johnny could change his mind.   The word spread through the island and neighboring islands that Johnny Lingo has been bested.  When the wedding was completed and Johnny took his bride Sarita to a neighboring island where he lived there was a transformation in her.  She was no longer a homely painfully shy girl, but a beautiful, self-confident woman.  She had a ready and beautiful smile and looked her guests in the eye.  She moved about with confidence and grace.  Johnny explains to visitors who behold the transformation that it was she was more highly valued than any other woman on the islands and that value was inconvertibly communicated to all her peers, that the real, the beautiful Sarita emerged.  Her value came from the esteem with which her husband held her."

[ColdEthyl]

Very nice parable thank you for sharing.

Strangely though how this doesn't seem to be reciprocated in our relationships.

Oh, it's not. I think a lot of us got sucked in when we were painted white and the mask was on pretty tight. Interestingly, I think in the beginning when we are painted white... .they do believe everything they think and say because... .well... .feelings are facts for them. I don't think the mask is an attempt to deceive, but it's just what they honestly think and feel at the time. They are trying to impress... .they will put in harder work.

[Hmcbart]

That story is perfect, although I would never talk about cows and my wife in the same sentence or maybe even the same week. 

It's amazing what self esteem and confidence can do for a person. And it scary what it does when they are taken away. I'm slowly regaining mine. Who knows, I a few years I may not even need to have multiple personalities, one around her and my real one. It gets confusing from time to time.

[OffRoad]

Try thinking of the ring thing, this way: When you said you wanted to have the rings reset, in his mind you were saying the rings he gave you weren't good enough. He might also have been thinking they would be expensive, or that you would decide on the rings yourself, without any of his input. You were requiring too much thinking in too short of a time for him.

Had you used a whole lot more words and said "I am so sad that my wedding rings no longer fit my fingers. I've worn them so much, they are getting thin, and I'd really like to have them made into a different style that would last for the rest of our lives. I know I can get them done within an acceptable budget. If I come up with a few styles, would you help me pick the best one?"

In the above scenario, you didn't ask if you could have them, you asked him to pick out the best one, you specified that the rings no longer fit, you acknowledged that you are sad they don't, given a reason for the style change and addressed the budget issue.

The problem is when you are excited about something, you don't want to have to think through all those things. If you try to look at is as you simply derailed his own thinking (That the rings are perfect, but just need to be bigger) with your own (an opportunity to have the rings remade as you would like) and made him feel like his original choice was wrong plus need to shift gears too fast, perhaps you can realize it wasn't a negative about you.

I find that when I re-frame a situation to understand his response was about his being uncomfortable with the situation, I can let the sadness over the negativity go.

[OffRoad]

I went and bout it without consulting her. It cost about $300, not a giant expense. She got home and told me that she had ordered me a new BBQ grill for Father's Day but after I bought the mower, she figured I didn't want the grill and took it back. I felt like she kicked me in the stomach and knocked my breath out of me.

The really sad part about this is that she most likely never ordered the BBQ grill at all, just said she did to get "even" with you.

[Hmcbart]

I went and bout it without consulting her. It cost about $300, not a giant expense. She got home and told me that she had ordered me a new BBQ grill for Father's Day but after I bought the mower, she figured I didn't want the grill and took it back. I felt like she kicked me in the stomach and knocked my breath out of me.

The really sad part about this is that she most likely never ordered the BBQ grill at all, just said she did to get "even" with you.

I considered that and even brought it up because I didn't think she could be that cruel. She swore up and down that she did and it was supposed to be delivered on Father's Day.

It really didn't either way after she said it. She got what she wanted out of it and that was to hurt me. I guess for not consulting her before making the other purchase.  I guess that's her way of being in control of the finances even if she doesn't work.

A few years later she did this to our oldest son. I put my foot down and told her know. He was about 6 at the time. I told her how hurt I was when she did that to me and I wasn't going to let her do it to our son.

I am pretty sure she got really mad at me for over ruling her parenting. But never once did she apologize or show any remorse for what she did to me or him.

[OffRoad]

I considered that and even brought it up because I didn't think she could be that cruel. She swore up and down that she did and it was supposed to be delivered on Father's Day.

You expected her to say something else?

A few years later she did this to our oldest son. I put my foot down and told her know. He was about 6 at the time. I told her how hurt I was when she did that to me and I wasn't going to let her do it to our son.

I am pretty sure she got really mad at me for over ruling her parenting. But never once did she apologize or show any remorse for what she did to me or him.

BBM: Some things are worth standing for, no matter what the repercussions, and that is one of them.

[Notwendy]

Offroad- I am pretty sure his thinking went there. He did say something about did I not like the one he gave me and I explained that it meant so much to me that I wanted to reset it, not get a new one.

Part of the reason I started to cry is that I knew it went down that rabbit hole of criticism to him. Actually that hole is more like the Grand Canyon for many things I say, intentional or not and it is so frustrating because it feels impossible to avoid it.

The other thing I thought of is that a display of happiness over something not all about him turns into some kind of comparison in his mind. " If I like a ring then that means I don't like his or I like the other rings better than his". If I am happy to see a friend," I like the friend better than him"... .It seems that a display of happiness is some kind of trigger for him. It turns out to be a self fulfilling truth though, as more and more I am more subdued around him as strong emotions in either direction don't usually don't go well- so he doesn't experience me being happy in his presence which can feel invalidating to him.

I just wish it wasn't so hard. When I see that someone likes something, if I can get it for them, I like to see them happy. I admit that I don't do this often for my H as he is very picking about his own things, but I do pick up his favorite steaks or make something he likes. I am not threatened if he likes something else, not related to me. But I can see why he would get touchy about the ring.

I have friends who decorate their homes, repaint, plan trips, reset their rings the way they want to. Their husbands don't seem to mind this, in fact,they seem happy to see their wives happy. I feel like I live with the happiness police.

[ColdEthyl]

@NotWendy

I knoow. It's so hard on us nons sometimes... .constantly having to be the strong ones... .the one who watch what we say... .how we say it. Sometimes I do get tired of it and just run my mouth with the costs be damned. Not always my smartest move, but I do feel better letting it out from time to time.

Everything has to go through that BPD filter, though. There's no way for us... .or them... .to remove it.

[Hmcbart]

From a non BPD husband's point of view. We do want to see our wives happy more than anything in the world. I know I don't get to see it as often as most but in those rare moments, I see an angel and the most beautiful women in the world.

I wish she could see what I do

[ColdEthyl]

I wish she could see what I do

I say this to my husband all of the time. He dogs himself daily. Sadly, it's where all of their negative stuff comes from  It's nice that you try to show her and tell her everyday <3

[Notwendy]

Hmcbart- you are so sweet. I think my H does feel this way too, but his self flogging gets in the way. I think he does want to see me happy, but that Grand Canyon of insults just can't stop filtering any happiness into some kind of threat or criticism. He hates it when I cry but darn, he has made so many happy times difficult by turning them into some way to insult him.

He could afford any ring I like. I don't like over the top extravagance. His personal toys cost more than any ring I could ask for. Expense is not the issue to him as he knows that I won't ask for something over budget. It was most likely about him seeing my enthusiasm over the ring as not liking the one he bought me.

Ditto with me doing something like changing the paint in a room, or the wallpaper. I have not ever gone over the top, in fact, the house has badly needed it for a long time now. However, he vetoes and gets angry about whatever I pick. Just for once, I wish he'd keep his negative comments out of the picture and I could just pick something I like without the drama.

[Verbena]

My H's initial response to most ideas is negative, especially if I bring them up.

notwendy, same here.  

If someone else made the same suggestion, he would possibly agree with them.  If I make it, he instantly tells me it's wrong just for the sake of disagreeing with me.  Then he often "forgets" that he disagreed with me.  

I was working on a project using some old tin ceiling tiles.  I told him I was planning on wrapping the tiles around a piece of MDF and asked him if he thought that would work best. "No, that won't work.  You need to nail it."  So I spent a long time trying to nail it, but it didn't work.  So I wrapped it and it worked fine.  When I brought it in the house, he asked how I did it and I told him.  "WEll, that's what you should have done in the first place instead of nailing it!  

I suggested a few months ago we get rid of our piano.  It was in bad shape and needed a ton of work to make it playable.  WE've had it for ten years without ever using it or getting it fixed.  "No, we are NOT getting rid of the piano!"  End of discussion.  A month or so ago, I made plans on my own to get rid of it and told him it would be leaving soon.  "Good, the sooner the better.  We need to get rid of that thing."  

For years I had wanted to remove some hang down cabinets in our kitchen because they blocked the view into the dining room.  I got tired of ducking to speak to people in the other room or speaking to their chins.  When I suggested we have them removed, he immediately said it would not work.  So while he was out of town, I had two guys come over and remove the cabinets.  What a difference!  He never once told me it was a good idea or that it looked good.  But when someone came over and commented on it, he acted like it was such a smart idea to remove them.  

I told him a few months ago that a client (I'm a decorator) wanted me to paint her buffet and that she was bringing it to the house.  He was completely disgusted and said, "So now you're going to start painting for people!  YOu've never done that before.  I don't see this going well."  (HIs exact words.) I've made decent money painting a number of things for clients since then, but he has yet to compliment me on any of my work.  He also denies that he ever acted the way he did when I told him about that first buffet job.   He says those words never came out of his mouth.    

I think my husband, and yours, just automatically revert to negative mode because it's what they know.  It never occurs to them to do anything else.  Then they "forget"   Or at least my husband does.  

[Notwendy]

Yes, you have it right. He is negative -rages even- and then forgets all about it. Then he can come up with the same idea as his.

It can even be ridiculous. Once we had a bathroom pipe leak - yes, the yukky stuff. When I mentioned the awful odor, he said he didn't smell anything and nothing was wrong. Being that I was used to letting him call the shots I didn't... .until it was so awful I just called someone to clean up the awful mess.

Recently, the dryer didn't dry well. I mentioned it to him and the response was to chastise me for not emptying the lint catcher like he does

" I always empty it but when I do I find it full of stuff because you don't do it and the dryer works just fine for me"

Yup, I never empty it   do I? In all those years of doing most of the laundry in the house, you would have thought we'd have lint crawling all over the house by now if I didn't empty it, but I smiled and said nothing.

And called someone to repair the dryer. It was broken. His reply " good idea"

What is the point of the negative mode? I would consider him for major house decisions or costly expenses. He can certainly have a different opinion and voice it.

but I just don't get being negative about so much.

[Verbena]

Wow, we really are in the same boat.  The difference I think is that you are way nicer about it.  I just tend to say as little to him as possible because it cuts down on the criticisms and negativity if we aren't talking. 

My H sucks the joy right out of the room, so I go in a different room. 

[Notwendy]

I can feel shut down very quickly and also avoid speaking- and just leave the room. I surely have my moments too, although I am trying not to add to the turmoil by saying negative things too.

The ring thing, just got to me. So much emotion with that one.

[Verbena]

I can feel shut down very quickly and also avoid speaking- and just leave the room. I surely have my moments too, although I am trying not to add to the turmoil by saying negative things too.

The ring thing, just got to me. So much emotion with that one.

I let things go for so many years and just ignored his behavior, and that wasn't good either.  I don't like conflict at all.  Adding to the turmoil is never good.  For example,  I used to pretend to believe him when he would tell me that he answered me when I knew good and well that he didn't--unless he knows how to speak without making sound or moving his lips--which he doesn't.  Not fifteen minutes ago, he pulled that number on me again when he told me he answered me after I said his supper was ready. 

He didn't answer me. I was looking right at him.  He ignored me like he usually does but he INSISTED that he said "Ok, I'll be there in a minute."  He's done this so much and sincerely seems to believe that he is speaking when he isn't.  It's beyond bizarre.  He could tell from the look on my face that I didn't believe him--and I don't because he didn't say a word--but I just let it go.  I told him a few months I feel like this is some game he's playing with me, I don't like it, and to please stop it.    He became furious and said he doesn't play games. Yet he still does it and denies that he is. 

I understand how the deal with the ring has you upset. There is a lot of emotion tied to a wedding ring.  I actually quit wearing my wedding ring/engagement ring a few years ago along with my other rings because they were too tight and annoyed me. For me, the rings don't mean that much anymore because my marriage is such a sham.  My husband refuses to discuss anything about our marriage with me.  Period. 

[Hmcbart]

I'm just trying to figure out which of you is my wife with an assumed name. I get accused of everything you are saying about your husbands. The difference being, I don't do 90% of the things I'm accused of.

The 10% I will confess to... .yah, I did them. Not my proudest moments sometimes.

I refuse to paint or fix anything around the house. Not because I can't do it and sometimes it's not because I'm being lazy. Mostly is because nothing I do can meet her expectations. Painting... .God forbid there is a tiny speck of missed area. Dry wall... .it doesn't match the original stuff perfectly... .she won't be happy.

After getting criticized for not doing a good enough job so many times, I gave up.  I just tell her to hire someone or do it herself. She usually does neither, she can't live up to her own expectations. We've been in this house for 8 years and there are only two pictures of our kids hanging up.

As far as the ring... .I have had some complaints over her ring even before it needed to be resized. Mostly I took them as jokes. She complained about the size of the diamond mostly. I do get an occasional jab about the cost.

20 years ago, my father gave me a ring her had bought on sale many years before. It was a men's ring, a bit gaudy but big and heavy (lots of gold). The diamonds weren't bad size for a men's ring either. I took it to the jeweler and we designed the new one and melted this one down.

So her engagement ring cost me $275, twenty years ago. At the time that was technically 3 months salary. I had just gotten out of the navy and was in college. But I got to design the ring and then break the mold. She has the only one in existence.

To change it or do anything different to it would be a bit insulting to me. But I can also agree that it could use a larger diamond. I just didn't have the money back then to make it any better. So you husband could be looking at it from that point of view. But then again... .according to my wife, it's always what I want never what she wants (projection).

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ASD]

Like many of the posts here, I feel like you guys are watching my life! Very similar things have happened to me with my (now) diagnosed wife.

My fingers have gotten bigger over the years and with the Florida heat, my ring was hurting so I took it off.  She lost a lot of weight and her rings are too big.  I have suggested for a couple of years now that we have them resized and we give them to one another on a special occasion.  Well that's just corny and stupid according to her.  People who do that will end up divorced soon after.  Why do I need her to wear the ring? Blah blah. 

I got a call from a regional newspaper editor to tell me that she had chosen me to get an award for my achievements in my organization, so I was very surprised and excited.  I ran to tell my wife the announcement would come out on her birthday, and there would be a ceremony 6 months later.  I was genuinely thrilled.  It turns out that I am an awful person because a foam board announcing an award I got 8 years ago from the same paper is no longer in my office.  My wife got drunk at the party and asked the editor if she could take it.  So to remind her who I was talking about I told her, you remember the lady you asked for that poster.  Oh yes, where's that poster now?  I said I don't remember.  I think when I changed jobs 4 years ago I threw it out. ... .and because of that she went on to tell me how insensitive I am and that I offended her (about a poster she had forgotten I had).  Now I don't even want to go to the awards dinner and have added it to the list of things I don't like to remember; it's a long list that included anniversaries, birthdays, new year's ... .etc.

I don't know why they do that.  It hurts so much, and yes, you can say "Ok, what's next," but What the heck?  Why should we have to keep putting up with it?  It seems deliberate.  I know that when there's a birthday or special occasion coming up, some big issue will be close at hand to overshadow the whole thing.  It hurts and the BPD needs to understand his/her tendencies and figure out a way to negotiate around his/her own obstacles. 

I am sorry that you both had to deal with those BS issues.  It's needless.  I'm venting... .

[OffRoad]

If someone else made the same suggestion, he would possibly agree with them.  If I make it, he instantly tells me it's wrong just for the sake of disagreeing with me.  Then he often "forgets" that he disagreed with me.  

^^^ That drives me INSANE! I will suggest something and it is poo-pooed as if it's the stupidest thing ever. Then someone else brings up the exact same thing and it's the greatest idea EVER! And he acts like I never mentioned it.

I hate that more than anything... .it's like I don't exist... .

[misuniadziubek]

If someone else made the same suggestion, he would possibly agree with them.  If I make it, he instantly tells me it's wrong just for the sake of disagreeing with me.  Then he often "forgets" that he disagreed with me.  

^^^ That drives me INSANE! I will suggest something and it is poo-pooed as if it's the stupidest thing ever. Then someone else brings up the exact same thing and it's the greatest idea EVER! And he acts like I never mentioned it.

I hate that more than anything... .it's like I don't exist... .

LOL. Here's a funny anecdote.

My pwBPD commented on someone's post on Facebook back in January. He vaguely mentioned that someone had posted their 'miscarriage' as a life event and that it was really morbid.

I accidentally came across the post. Wasn't intentionally stalking.

Bring up, 'hey isn't it really weird that Facebook allows you to post miscarriage as a life event?"

He's just like no... .not at all. It's pretty normal.

I quote his VERY arguments from the comment section on Facebook about how morbid that is.


He responds with... .That's just you and your prejudiced, close-minded upbringing because you grew up in a Catholic family and are judgmental against people by reflex. Miscarriages are normal life events. There is nothing wrong with it.

I'm just laughing on the inside.

[Notwendy]

Husbands, I understand how you are feeling. Sometimes I see myself in the complaints from the husbands as well. I think it is because many marriages between people who don't have BPD can have similar issues with each spouse feeling overly criticized and unappreciated. Perhaps the difference is that when there is a personality disorder, the situation is exaggerated.

I don't have any complaints about the original appearance of the ring my H bought for me. Honestly, he could have showed up with just about any ring and I would have been over the moon to marry him. But the marriage was followed by years of verbal and emotional abuse and that sadness is attached to it. If it was all about getting a ring that I thought looked better, I could have bought my own , but I wanted to incorporate the ring I have into the new one because even if times were tough, the ring is meaningful to me. It isn't one that was designed from an original, but a standard design that is seen everywhere. That doesn't mean it isn't special to me, but if my H had designed it for me, or it was an heirloom, I would not consider touching that.

If my H does anything, paint, whatever, I don't complain about it. I don't complain to him, because, sadly, I don't have to. Whatever I say tends to be "heard" as one. I have been raged at for things I don't intend. I realized that he rages because he hurts and thinks I am hurting him, and I don't want to hurt him.  He is his own worst enemy but he thinks that his pain comes from me. This issue I have with picking out things like paint is that I can spend days looking for colors and ideas, and he can veto it in a second. It is discouraging to me.

However, I do understand that he can feel unappreciated and criticized because, I think, the feeling of being discouraged can go both ways. They can paint us black, and we can feel defeated. I did burn out during the years he painted me black, and so even if he tries I can think, well will it last, is this real?

But thanks to your comments, I have been thinking maybe I should just resize the original ring and wear it if it meant he feels it isn't criticizing it. In the end, I really don't care as much about rings as I do the people in my life. Asking to change it was no different than asking for anything else, and grin and bearing the initial negative response, except that this one was much harder to take emotionally. I don't want a ring given to me with resentment.  

[vortex of confusion]

But thanks to your comments, I have been thinking maybe I should just resize the original ring and wear it if it meant he feels it isn't criticizing it. In the end, I really don't care as much about rings as I do the people in my life. Asking to change it was no different than asking for anything else, and grin and bearing the initial negative response, except that this one was much harder to take emotionally. I don't want a ring given to me with resentment.  

I am coming to the conversation late. If you don't want to mess with the original ring, there is another option. My original wedding ring got too tight so my husband and I went and got new matching bands together. Recently, mine got too tight again. I could have had it resized. I quit wearing it for a while. When we were out and about one day, we were at some store that had cheap stainless steel rings. I had been toying with getting something super cheap for a while but hadn't said anything to my husband. We were standing there looking at these rings and I said, "Hey, I think I am going to get one of these cheap rings to wear since the original is too tight. I don't want to mess with the originals." So, I bought a 9 dollar stainless steel band to wear. The originals are in tact and haven't been touched. Would something like that work for you?

[Notwendy]

I wouldn't mind doing that, but the band I have is resized. The engagement ring isn't. I was thinking about resetting the diamond into a new design. I wasn't unhappy with it, but seeing the rings in the store gave me ideas, and well, I started to dream... .

Shared that wish and the negative response just threw me. I guess I have this fantasy that my H would say "sure honey, lets do it" ( within budget but that's a given) which he actually did say- but after I cried at his reaction. I guess the fantasy didn't include the tears.

The first ring was a total surprise. If I brought up marriage, he didn't want to discuss it. I should have seen this as a red flag, but he would explain that he was under stress at work.  He didn't ask me what kind of ring I would like, and we didn't look at any rings together before he bought it. Of course I loved it. I would have loved anything because I loved him, but the years to follow made me wonder if he really wanted to marry me in the first place.

I haven't actually spent time looking in a jewelry store thinking about what I might like. That's a new step for me as a now recovering co-dependent, and I saw styles that I would truly love and expressed that. That hasn't gone so well for me in the past. It is a very hard thing for me to  dare ask for something that I like for no reason other than I like it. So I didn't have the personal strength to get through a negative response in this case. Mostly when this happens, I tend to back down.

My question involved shaking this negative. I think he also feels badly that he reacted that way because, he knows that it hurt my feelings. I just wish it had not been this difficult.

[Hmcbart]

Wendy,


I hope you didn't take my post to mean that your husband was correct in his actions. That was not my intent. I was only try to convey what I would be thinking. My brain work differently that his to be sure.

I often find myself trying to see things from the perspective of someone with BPD. This is more of a coping mechanism than anything else. Probably a codependent coping mechanism.

I know there are probably many things my wife has negative emotions attached to. I, unlike someone with BPD am willing to get rid of most of these things if it would make my wife happier.

Unfortunately for me, I think the one thing that has the most negative emotions for her, is me.

ASD, I do find myself saying What the heck quite often these days. But in the end, I don't think she will ever change. I'm not sure, even if she knew what she was doing, that she would try to change. It's kind of like trying to change the weather. You can do anything about it but you can learn to build a shelter or move to a different place where the storms are as bad.

[Notwendy]

Don't worry, I didn't think I was being considered as having BPD,  but it isn't the first time I considered it- after all, I was raised by the Queen of the Queen/Witches with BPD and have learned at the feet of the master. Part of my own personal journey has been to undo many of the things we were taught as children. I think we bring those painful memories into our marriage. I know the fear of asking for something I want is a remnant of that.

Likewise for my H, growing up with a (IMHO) verbally abusive father who criticized him constantly is the reason he has that "I'm not good enough" tape in his head. We bring our childhood hurts into our marriages- all of them. Perhaps the difference is that those of us who don't have BPD can say " wow, I'm messed up from my messed up parents, and now my marriage is a mess and I need to go get a handle on this " The person with BPD says " There is nothing wrong with me, it's all someone else's fault"

I guess my actual wish is that I had a voice in my FOO, but I didn't and I am in a marriage where having a voice creates all kinds of difficulties for both of us. However, I am starting to assert that voice, even if it isn't easy.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Notwendy,

Here's my take on the ring issue, coming from a former co-dependent. Get yourself the ring you want! Consequences be damned! He probably won't even notice that it's different. You're trying to get him to be happy and supportive about an issue that doesn't matter at all to him and he's looking for the hidden insult. As it is, he probably thinks you're being overly dramatic about something inconsequential.

Do it for you. You don't need his permission. I'm sure you've squirreled away some money of your own. Do it as a statement of reclaiming your life, your self. It will be a merger of your marriage and your new sense of self. Just do it!

Cat

[Notwendy]

Thanks Cat, I am still looking at settings online. I will know it when I see it, whether I get it for me or he does, or I reset the ring or not. But if I don't reset the ring, I won't get something that looks like an engagement ring- it will be a different stone/style altogether. Who knows what I will find. I won't break the bank either, that isn't my style, and yes, I have saved some of my own money to buy one.

[Notwendy]

Google is my friend

Found this article on dealing with negative people. While not particular to BPD, it touches on some of the issues- fear- that could lead to people being negative.

With my H, it is automatic. When presented with a new idea- the first thing that comes out of his mouth is negative. Later on, he may realize he doesn't mean it and he is sorry, but it is hard to undo mean words.

As this article suggests, I'm not going to buy into the negativity.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201303/dealing-negative-people

[ColdEthyl]

Google is my friend

Found this article on dealing with negative people. While not particular to BPD, it touches on some of the issues- fear- that could lead to people being negative.

With my H, it is automatic. When presented with a new idea- the first thing that comes out of his mouth is negative. Later on, he may realize he doesn't mean it and he is sorry, but it is hard to undo mean words.

As this article suggests, I'm not going to buy into the negativity.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201303/dealing-negative-people

*Nods* Great article! My H does the same stuff. If he didn't think of it, it's a bad idea. We can be watching the same show... .but his idea of what is going on can be so different than mine, you would think we were watching different shows.

I remind myself that everything he "takes in", IE everything he sees, hears, etc has to go through a BPD filter, or a strainer. And as we all know... .that BPD filter is lying, negative sod. I'm human... .I screw up by saying the wrong thing or in the wrong way. Sometimes, I don't give a fig about his filter at all. But, when something he does or says really hurts me, I remember that filter and I imagine pushing what I said through that filter and see if I can hear what he heard.

[Hmcbart]

The funniest part of this is how my wife does the exact same thing, but it gets projected on to me and ultimately it becomes... .wait for it... .You are always so negative, do you treat the people you work with like this?

Some days I laugh because I know the personality of the me who leaves the house... .I like him better, he's the normal one ... .shhh! don't tell anyone. 

[ColdEthyl]

Yep or when we argue and I start yelling... .he looks at me like I'm an alien and tells me to calm down become I'm "shaking like a meth addict" I almost just lost it and laughed right there. I asked him, "So... .it isn't pretty is it? When someone is yelling and pacing? Be lucky I didn't pull holes in the walls when I'm mad like you did here... .here... .here... .here... ."

He decided not to bring that up again 

[Hmcbart]

Yep or when we argue and I start yelling... .he looks at me like I'm an alien and tells me to calm down become I'm "shaking like a meth addict" I almost just lost it and laughed right there. I asked him, "So... .it isn't pretty is it? When someone is yelling and pacing? Be lucky I didn't pull holes in the walls when I'm mad like you did here... .here... .here... .here... ."

He decided not to bring that up again 

At my house the holes in the wall would be justified because of something I did or didn't do. I walked out during her rage once after telling her up front to stop talking to me this way. She literally told me that she wouldn't get mad at me if I would have made a mistake on something that she made the same mistake on with some forms for the kids.

So basically she had to yell, belittle and treat me like a child because I made the same mistake she made. I felt like I was living in one of those TLC movies where the wife is physically abused and the husband says he wouldn't have to hit her if she would have spilled the milk. Except I'm the spouse and the abuse is verbal.

[Michelle27]

On the topic of rings, my engagement ring was picked out by my husband himself, and I like it.  But I am partial to sets, especially a matching band and anniversary band on the other side, sautered together.  So I used old jewelry of mine (lots of gold and some diamond chips to have a jeweller design and make two rings for me after we got engaged.  My husband was all for it and we went together to pick out his wedding band which he liked.  On the day we got married (casual ceremony while we were camping with only close family for the ceremony and friends for a BBQ "reception" at our campsite afterwards... .2nd marriage for both of us so didn't want the hoopla), he had the mother of all rages and threw his ring at me while on the beach, just the 2 of us.  I now know what it came from was the engulfment of the marriage getting to him, but I didn't know that BPD existed back then.  He went on to not wear his wedding ring for most of the last decade until I almost left him after years of promises to get help and nothing.  And now he wears it attached to his watch, not his finger because he lost some weight and it no longer fits well. 

Funny that there are so many issues over rings.  Mine isn't so much about my rings (I love them) but about his soiling my memory of our wedding day.  If we make it through (we are separated now, kind of a therapeutic separation), I intend to raise the idea of renewing our vows to replace that horrible memory of our wedding day.

[Notwendy]

Rings represent relationships. When I think of all the hopes and dreams a young couple has when choosing a ring, it makes me sad too. I remember being over the moon when he gave me mine, having no clue what was ahead.

So it was with some sadness and wistfulness that I looked at rings, and got the idea of making one that fit who I was today. I get the feeling of not wanting to add bad memories. My H has bought me nice things, and done nice things for me, but during arguments, he has thrown it in my face as ammunition. When he accused me of being rude to his family ( all in his head) he brought up several incidents where he was nice to mine. He took us on a  nice family trip and then, in a rage, brought up the fact that it was expensive. My response to these is then, just don't do it. I would prefer to see my family on my own, take my own trips without him. Then, he says "now I am in the hole and you hold this against me"- accusing me of bringing up every little slight.

He will say to me that I remember every little slight and don't forgive anything, like some people talk about their partners here, but that isn't my intent. If I bring something up it would be because I was confused about it. However, he remembers the nice things he does, and throws it all out as ammunition to win a fight, so it makes it hard to appreciate what he does do. I have detached from these arguments now. I used to bring things up, not as punishment but because I wanted some kind of closure or understanding. He sees is as punishment though, and it is futile to bring up what was said/done in dysregulation.

So one thing he said to me was " are you going to pick out the ring setting without me?". Well, I wouldn't want to but if he is going to be a pill over it, then I would rather do it alone. I don't want a ring argued over, or brought up as ammunition later. So we will see. I enjoy looking at pictures and getting ideas.

Michelle, I hope your marriage turns around for you, but however it goes, I think you are a strong person.

[Michelle27]

Thank you, Notwendy.  I think my strength comes from realizing I can and will no longer take the abuse I took for so long.  Someone in this thread (sorry, I can't remember right now who) mentioned self respect and how our pwBPD NEED us to have that self respect. I see that now with my H who seems to respect me more now in some ways now that I am standing up for my values and myself.  Although friends who know him and I pretty well are not yet convinced he is seeking help/therapy for himself or just to keep me.  I don't know either but I am glad he is doing things (pursuing assessment with our local mental health organization, accepting the kind of odd separation we are doing without argument, listening to me when I express dissatisfaction with certain behaviors, even signing himself up for anger management, taking CBT classes he found himself, etc.).  There is a good section from the Stop Walking on Eggshells book that explains how setting and maintaining boundaries is something the pwBPD needs us to do for their own mental health as well as our own.  I now clearly see how I made things worse by being a "victim" so long.  No more.  Even if my marriage doesn't work out, I know I will be fine, and what I have learned will allow me to never again be in an abusive relationship (my first marriage was abusive, mostly physical) so clearly I have issues too that I am working on.

I have to say, that while I know I'm in the relatively early stages of getting myself healed and healthy, it is most empowering. 

[Notwendy]

I also see where having better boundaries has made positive changes as well Michelle, it is well worth it.

[ColdEthyl]

@Michelle27 keep doing what you are doing. I've seen a lot of changed in my H since I have stopped allowing him to bully me. Just the other night, we were watching an episode of House (if you ever saw it... .dude's pretty close to BPD) and his GF was telling him he's selfish, and he always will be. She said she will always love him, but she deserved someone who cared about her and her thoughts and feelings.

That struck a cord with my H because he said to me that he should treat me better. He knows he's selfish, he just doesn't always see it right away, then it's hard for him to admit it.

I don't expect him to change over night, but I will tell you I see improvements everyday.

[Michelle27]

@Michelle27 keep doing what you are doing. I've seen a lot of changed in my H since I have stopped allowing him to bully me. Just the other night, we were watching an episode of House (if you ever saw it... .dude's pretty close to BPD) and his GF was telling him he's selfish, and he always will be. She said she will always love him, but she deserved someone who cared about her and her thoughts and feelings.

That struck a cord with my H because he said to me that he should treat me better. He knows he's selfish, he just doesn't always see it right away, then it's hard for him to admit it.

I don't expect him to change over night, but I will tell you I see improvements everyday.

Yes, I do know House and wow... .never thought of him that way before but it rings true.

And thank you.  I don't know where the path I'm taking is going to wind up as far as my marriage goes, but I know with 100% certainty that it's the right path for ME right now.  Taking care of me first is so foreign to me that I question it regularly, but I know it's right.