How do you shake off the negative?

[Notwendy]

My H's initial response to most ideas is negative, especially if I bring them up. I have gotten used to this aspect of his personality. If the idea is reasonable, then he often comes around after thinking about it.

In the early years of our marriage, H painted me black, expressed resentment for his feeling trapped, and also had resented the expense of me and the kids, even though he wanted them ( they were planned), and is generous to us. Because of the way I was raised, not to ask too much of my parents, and my H's negativity, I have not asked much from him for myself personally. I think I have been a good financial deal for him, having been a good domestic worker/nanny/ with benefits over the years ( sarcasm here).  I also think he loves me, in spite of the negativity and he has said many times that he is glad he married me, and he adores the kids.

As time goes on, my fingers have gotten larger and I have to resize my rings. Some of my friends have reset theirs and I got the idea to do this for an upcoming anniversary. It is not my style to ask for something extravagant so what I would want would be affordable.

Ordinarily I can withstand the negative first response but this time, I was just so excited about the idea that when I got the negative response I just started to cry which led to him defending his right to know more information before he agrees to it.  This time, I didn't JADE, but mentioned that" I just got the idea and don't have any information, I was just happy and excited about it. I hoped you would notice that. " and then didn't say more.

My H has expressed remorse for how he treated me in the early years of our marriage, and resetting the engagement ring would be a special symbolic gesture to me, as I don't have happy memories associated with it. Anniversaries are kind of difficult milestones for me too because of that.

He now feels like a jerk and is saying " go pick out whatever ring you want and let me know". He does want to pick it out with me. My magical wish is that he would have not been negative in the first place and just said " I would love to give you this" ( he can afford it). What would mean the most about it would be how it was given, not just the ring. I could have bought a new ring by myself, but I wanted to wear the one he gave me in a new setting . How does one shake the sadness from something that would be special?

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[Hmcbart]

I hate that this happened to you. I can understand how hurt you must feel by it all. I can only speak from my own experience because every situation is different. I would take some solace in the fact that he has expressed remorse over how he treated you.

As I'm sure you are aware of, someone with BPD actually accepting responsibility for their actions and then expressing remorse. That's a rare little ray of sunshine.

My situation isn't much different accept that my wife has never accepted responsibility for her actions and never felt or acted remorseful. I remember Father's Day about 8 years ago. She was out of town with our kids visiting relatives. We had just bought a new house and I needed a lawnmower.

I went and bout it without consulting her. It cost about $300, not a giant expense. She got home and told me that she had ordered me a new BBQ grill for Father's Day but after I bought the mower, she figured I didn't want the grill and took it back. I felt like she kicked me in the stomach and knocked my breath out of me.

It was a mean and spiteful thing to do to someone.

So, how do I get over events like that, and there are many and some worse. I make sure that it doesn't happen to someone else. I protect my kids from things like this happening, she has tried to do this to our oldest.

As you can tell, you never really get over some things. You just move forward. I learned long ago never to say "it can't get any worse" as soon as you do, it will get worse. I now just say "ok, what's next". You can't stop life from happening, the good and the bad. It's going to go on wether you want it to or not.

Put your chin up, smile and say "ok, what's next".

Also, if you play Call of Duty style video games, rename the computer players to people who upset you and blast away. 

[Ceruleanblue]

Wow, I can really relate to this post. I have quite a few things or events that should have happy memories attached, but BPDh tends to sabotage things. He agrees, and knows he does this.

Could you still pick the ring out together, and tell him that how he presents it matters? He sounds remorseful, so might be open to making it right for you? Approach him with this when he's in a good place emotionally. Make a special outing of picking it out, and then a special dinner of him presenting it?

Maybe every time that initial thought of his first reaction pops in your head, think of his remorse instead, and eventually you'll have a better memory to attach to the new ring(him presenting it).  

I know just how you feel though, because BPDh and I picked out my diamond, then my setting, and after I got it he make some rude comment about it/me(during a dysregulated time months after I got it), and I can hardly look at it without thinking of that. I so appreciated the ring, but his mean comments ruined that for me. I plan to have it reset, and do exactly what I stated above, so I can have happy memories attached.

This new ring for me is going to symbolize us getting to a healthier, better place in our marriage, which we are. You can be sure he'll know that, and what it means to me. I just hope he'll actually believe me, and listen.

[Notwendy]

Oh that is so hurtful- Hmcbart lawnmower that you bought for yourself  isn't a Father's day gift! I guess they don't have a clue sometimes, but yes, showing some remorse is a big step.

I don't play video games, but my kids do. Maybe I need to go check on who they named the characters after!

[Ceruleanblue]

Hmcbart:

I can't believe she took the grill back. That was a gift! Does she not get the concept of a gift? I guess this is common with BPD. My BPDh usually gets me a small gift on Mother's Day, even though initially I hadn't expected that of him. This year, he didn't even say "Happy Mother's Day", and when I expressed disappointment, he didn't seem to understand. Then, later this same day, he buys himself motorcycle boots and leather jacket. I mentioned he could "make it up to me", and still zippo two days later. Oh, and he works by Walmart, and a huge mall.

Bottom line is that so many with BPD are also highly narcissistic, and selfish. I'm not being mean, it's just fact. WE don't matter to them they way they do to us, and they lack skills, and sometimes empathy, so their slights are easy for them to forget. Boy, we'd sure be awful if we ever did the same crap to them though! It's so sad it's almost funny.

[Notwendy]

Ceruleanblue-

Sorry that you have gone through a similar thing. Maybe it is common for them to sabotage the commitments, the push pull thing, but yes, the sad memories attached to what could be happy times is tough. I don't like to look at my wedding pictures either.

I don't know what I will say to him or how much to say. I think he gets it. However, if I say too much about it it will trigger a " you are trying to rub my nose in it - what do you want me to do- grovel? " response.

No, I don't want him to grovel but too much explaining goes down that path.

I hope you get the happy ring with the happier memories. Me too.

As to Father's Day- my kids had something they had to do that day. I planned ahead to have Father's Day celebration the day before- made a nice dinner. I bought a gift. But on Father's Day I got raged at for not doing it on that day. He didn't like the gift either at the time, but ended up liking it later. Still, the rage was awful. I don't think I have it in me to do any of the crap they do, but I think it would be an apocalypse.  

[ColdEthyl]

Sorry this happened to you, NotWendy *hugs*

In your situation, the fact he's remorseful and willing to do something to try to make it up is huge. It doesn't change the disappointment of the initial contact, though. How I deal with that when it happens to me is to just keep reminding myself he's selfish first and foremost, and it's not on purpose. He can't see past himself.

What I have started doing is buying my own presents. If he doesn't like it... .which he doesn't, then he can choose to go out and pick something otherwise... .I'm getting me something I want. That's exactly how I told him. He feels badly... .but it's his choice. He can choose to think of a gift and go get it.

What mine does... .the bugger... .is want to play with whatever I got myself. For Mother's Day, I bought myself a new video game. It just came in the mail this afternoon. He texts me to let me know it's there, and how he's having a hard time not starting the game. *ahem* It's mine. I SHOULD get to open and play with it first. I told him not to dare. He can play the game he's playing and he can play this one when he's finished with the one he has.

[Hmcbart]

Sadly the mower was a necessity not a want for me.

I try to do things to be romantic and sentimental for her. Especially for our anniversary. The engagement ring I got her is a one if a kind. I actually sat with the jeweler and designed it. After it was made I kept the mold and there isn't another like it.

So I can understand the meaning behind it for you. My wife gained some weight in the last few years. This happens with kids and also with getting older. There was also some issues with sitting around the house all the time but I don't bring that up. Anyway her fingers got bigger also.

I offered several times to take her to get it resized. She always shot me down and didn't want to. I even tried to take it without her to have it done. Yes I know that wasn't my brightest idea, nothing to compare it to and all. I stopped wearing mine for about 6 months before she finally noticed.

As a guy, I don't get a lot of thought to my feelings about these things. We're supposed to be the strong ones who don't think of this stuff. But when your the only one who does in the relationship, it's difficult to not be upset when someone steps on your happiness.

If you can find a way to change your feelings about it Wendy, good for you. You will be happier in the long run.

[Notwendy]

Oh gosh if I touched my kids' games they would be screaming.

I also can't touch my H's stuff... .it is his stuff.

His solution to buying something for me that he wants is to buy it for him too.

He isn't wanting a pretty dainty ring though, so I think I'm good. Also, I want a say in this. He picked out the rings he gave me. I like them and think they are nice, but this time, I really want to look at them and choose something that I like myself. I will include him, but he has strong opinions and tends to assert his over mine. Part of this is having my own voice about what ring I want too.

[Notwendy]

Aww that is so sweet about the ring. I am sure resizing them is about her being self conscious.  Fingers and feet swelled when I got pregnant and didn't ever go back to the same size, and the rings just slowly got uncomfortable over time.

It is somewhat depressing to have things not fit well, but kids, time, gravity, hormonal changes, we all are subjected to it. It is sweet of you to let your wife know you love her as she is now.

[Hmcbart]

Yah, I'm not allowed to touch her stuff either. But she doesn't play video games so I don't have to worry about that one.

Buying it for yourself is a great idea. You can attach what ever memories you want to it. I've started doing things like that for my birthday and Father's Day. Before the kids got older, my birthday and Father's Day were just another day during the week. I may get a Walmart bag with a card occasionally if anything.

Now that the kids are older they are the ones who push her to do things for my birthday and Father's Day. Although this year for Valentine's Day I got me a new video game. She was very mad but I suspect it was because she didn't get me anything until after she found out I had bought that for myself.

And I have tried to treat her the way she treats me. I even asked her if I treated her the way she treats me would that make her happy. She was completely against that idea. When I started actually doing it, she was angry for 2 months. And yet nothing has changed.

So buy a nice dainty ring and ask if he would like to wear it.  

[Hmcbart]

Aww that is so sweet about the ring. I am sure resizing them is about her being self conscious.  Fingers and feet swelled when I got pregnant and didn't ever go back to the same size, and the rings just slowly got uncomfortable over time.

It is somewhat depressing to have things not fit well, but kids, time, gravity, hormonal changes, we all are subjected to it. It is sweet of you to let your wife know you love her as she is now.

I'm just waiting on it to be reciprocated. But all the negative feelings she has about herself and her weight gain get projected right at me. It's like a sick and twisted funhouse mirror. I can tell her everyday that I still love her as much as when me net 20 years ago but that counts for exactly zip when I'm painted black.

[ColdEthyl]

Well, a lot of it has to do with what gift giving does to their psyche. (Or lack of gift giving in most of our cases) I know for my H, he just doesn't think of it until it's too late... .or he doesn't know what to get... .doesn't want to ask... .gets nervous about picking something out. Stalls... .runs out of time... .feels bad... .dysregulation.

That's why i just took it off of his plate. It's not worth it to me to have him go through that every holiday/gift giving occasion comes up. I won't get any joy out of the gift knowing he didn't enjoy getting it. If he wants to get one on his own... .that's fine. I give him all the time he needs. If he strikes out by a day or two before the event... .than I buy myself something.

That isn't to say I'm not still sad sometimes that things are not different. I do but... .he can't do it. I just... .think of the times he did come up with a gift... .how happy he was to give it to me... .how happy he was with himself.

[Notwendy]

Posting this because this story resonated with me when I first heard it. Now, I see it as a bit co-dependent- we shouldn't need someone to make us into a 10 cow husband or wife, but I think everyone would like to be one to our spouses.

Strangely though how this doesn't seem to be reciprocated in our relationships. That " do unto others " rule isn't a two way street. Sometimes, I felt more like I was being treated like a cow, not something worth 10 of them. But I can treat myself like I am.    We all can. I also admire those of us who do treat our spouses well, even in the face of difficulty.

" Johnny Lingo  lived on an island where the dowry for young brides was one, two or three cows.  Very occasionally one might pay four, but that would be a highly unusual case.  The price was a very public figure.  The men and women of the island and the neighboring islands would all know what a wife had cost and at least to a certain degree, has a pecking order that developed socially based in part on the price that had been paid for the woman.  Johnny Lingo had known a certain man and his two daughters since childhood.  He made contact with this man about bargaining for the hand of one of his daughters.  The man assumed it would be his younger daughter who was considered more attractive—maybe even a three-cow wife.  His older daughter, Sarita, was painfully shy and considered by many to be rather plain or homely.  The truth was he hoped he could negotiate one cow, but would be willing for the burden of her support and clothing to be taken for free.  Johnny Lingo, on the other hand, was known to be a shrewd bargainer and the richest man in the islands, never paying too much for anything he purchased.  The story goes that Johnny Lingo came to Sarita’s island and offered ten cows (or eight cows depending on the version of the story one adheres to) for the older daughter, Sarita, whom he had known since childhood.  The father quickly accepted and had the village chief perform the wedding before Johnny could change his mind.   The word spread through the island and neighboring islands that Johnny Lingo has been bested.  When the wedding was completed and Johnny took his bride Sarita to a neighboring island where he lived there was a transformation in her.  She was no longer a homely painfully shy girl, but a beautiful, self-confident woman.  She had a ready and beautiful smile and looked her guests in the eye.  She moved about with confidence and grace.  Johnny explains to visitors who behold the transformation that it was she was more highly valued than any other woman on the islands and that value was inconvertibly communicated to all her peers, that the real, the beautiful Sarita emerged.  Her value came from the esteem with which her husband held her."

[ColdEthyl]

Very nice parable thank you for sharing.

Strangely though how this doesn't seem to be reciprocated in our relationships.

Oh, it's not. I think a lot of us got sucked in when we were painted white and the mask was on pretty tight. Interestingly, I think in the beginning when we are painted white... .they do believe everything they think and say because... .well... .feelings are facts for them. I don't think the mask is an attempt to deceive, but it's just what they honestly think and feel at the time. They are trying to impress... .they will put in harder work.

[Hmcbart]

That story is perfect, although I would never talk about cows and my wife in the same sentence or maybe even the same week. 

It's amazing what self esteem and confidence can do for a person. And it scary what it does when they are taken away. I'm slowly regaining mine. Who knows, I a few years I may not even need to have multiple personalities, one around her and my real one. It gets confusing from time to time.

[OffRoad]

Try thinking of the ring thing, this way: When you said you wanted to have the rings reset, in his mind you were saying the rings he gave you weren't good enough. He might also have been thinking they would be expensive, or that you would decide on the rings yourself, without any of his input. You were requiring too much thinking in too short of a time for him.

Had you used a whole lot more words and said "I am so sad that my wedding rings no longer fit my fingers. I've worn them so much, they are getting thin, and I'd really like to have them made into a different style that would last for the rest of our lives. I know I can get them done within an acceptable budget. If I come up with a few styles, would you help me pick the best one?"

In the above scenario, you didn't ask if you could have them, you asked him to pick out the best one, you specified that the rings no longer fit, you acknowledged that you are sad they don't, given a reason for the style change and addressed the budget issue.

The problem is when you are excited about something, you don't want to have to think through all those things. If you try to look at is as you simply derailed his own thinking (That the rings are perfect, but just need to be bigger) with your own (an opportunity to have the rings remade as you would like) and made him feel like his original choice was wrong plus need to shift gears too fast, perhaps you can realize it wasn't a negative about you.

I find that when I re-frame a situation to understand his response was about his being uncomfortable with the situation, I can let the sadness over the negativity go.

[OffRoad]

I went and bout it without consulting her. It cost about $300, not a giant expense. She got home and told me that she had ordered me a new BBQ grill for Father's Day but after I bought the mower, she figured I didn't want the grill and took it back. I felt like she kicked me in the stomach and knocked my breath out of me.

The really sad part about this is that she most likely never ordered the BBQ grill at all, just said she did to get "even" with you.

[Hmcbart]

I went and bout it without consulting her. It cost about $300, not a giant expense. She got home and told me that she had ordered me a new BBQ grill for Father's Day but after I bought the mower, she figured I didn't want the grill and took it back. I felt like she kicked me in the stomach and knocked my breath out of me.

The really sad part about this is that she most likely never ordered the BBQ grill at all, just said she did to get "even" with you.

I considered that and even brought it up because I didn't think she could be that cruel. She swore up and down that she did and it was supposed to be delivered on Father's Day.

It really didn't either way after she said it. She got what she wanted out of it and that was to hurt me. I guess for not consulting her before making the other purchase.  I guess that's her way of being in control of the finances even if she doesn't work.

A few years later she did this to our oldest son. I put my foot down and told her know. He was about 6 at the time. I told her how hurt I was when she did that to me and I wasn't going to let her do it to our son.

I am pretty sure she got really mad at me for over ruling her parenting. But never once did she apologize or show any remorse for what she did to me or him.

[OffRoad]

I considered that and even brought it up because I didn't think she could be that cruel. She swore up and down that she did and it was supposed to be delivered on Father's Day.

You expected her to say something else?

A few years later she did this to our oldest son. I put my foot down and told her know. He was about 6 at the time. I told her how hurt I was when she did that to me and I wasn't going to let her do it to our son.

I am pretty sure she got really mad at me for over ruling her parenting. But never once did she apologize or show any remorse for what she did to me or him.

BBM: Some things are worth standing for, no matter what the repercussions, and that is one of them.

[Notwendy]

Offroad- I am pretty sure his thinking went there. He did say something about did I not like the one he gave me and I explained that it meant so much to me that I wanted to reset it, not get a new one.

Part of the reason I started to cry is that I knew it went down that rabbit hole of criticism to him. Actually that hole is more like the Grand Canyon for many things I say, intentional or not and it is so frustrating because it feels impossible to avoid it.

The other thing I thought of is that a display of happiness over something not all about him turns into some kind of comparison in his mind. " If I like a ring then that means I don't like his or I like the other rings better than his". If I am happy to see a friend," I like the friend better than him"... .It seems that a display of happiness is some kind of trigger for him. It turns out to be a self fulfilling truth though, as more and more I am more subdued around him as strong emotions in either direction don't usually don't go well- so he doesn't experience me being happy in his presence which can feel invalidating to him.

I just wish it wasn't so hard. When I see that someone likes something, if I can get it for them, I like to see them happy. I admit that I don't do this often for my H as he is very picking about his own things, but I do pick up his favorite steaks or make something he likes. I am not threatened if he likes something else, not related to me. But I can see why he would get touchy about the ring.

I have friends who decorate their homes, repaint, plan trips, reset their rings the way they want to. Their husbands don't seem to mind this, in fact,they seem happy to see their wives happy. I feel like I live with the happiness police.

[ColdEthyl]

@NotWendy

I knoow. It's so hard on us nons sometimes... .constantly having to be the strong ones... .the one who watch what we say... .how we say it. Sometimes I do get tired of it and just run my mouth with the costs be damned. Not always my smartest move, but I do feel better letting it out from time to time.

Everything has to go through that BPD filter, though. There's no way for us... .or them... .to remove it.

[Hmcbart]

From a non BPD husband's point of view. We do want to see our wives happy more than anything in the world. I know I don't get to see it as often as most but in those rare moments, I see an angel and the most beautiful women in the world.

I wish she could see what I do

[ColdEthyl]

I wish she could see what I do

I say this to my husband all of the time. He dogs himself daily. Sadly, it's where all of their negative stuff comes from  It's nice that you try to show her and tell her everyday <3

[Notwendy]

Hmcbart- you are so sweet. I think my H does feel this way too, but his self flogging gets in the way. I think he does want to see me happy, but that Grand Canyon of insults just can't stop filtering any happiness into some kind of threat or criticism. He hates it when I cry but darn, he has made so many happy times difficult by turning them into some way to insult him.

He could afford any ring I like. I don't like over the top extravagance. His personal toys cost more than any ring I could ask for. Expense is not the issue to him as he knows that I won't ask for something over budget. It was most likely about him seeing my enthusiasm over the ring as not liking the one he bought me.

Ditto with me doing something like changing the paint in a room, or the wallpaper. I have not ever gone over the top, in fact, the house has badly needed it for a long time now. However, he vetoes and gets angry about whatever I pick. Just for once, I wish he'd keep his negative comments out of the picture and I could just pick something I like without the drama.

[Verbena]

My H's initial response to most ideas is negative, especially if I bring them up.

notwendy, same here.  

If someone else made the same suggestion, he would possibly agree with them.  If I make it, he instantly tells me it's wrong just for the sake of disagreeing with me.  Then he often "forgets" that he disagreed with me.  

I was working on a project using some old tin ceiling tiles.  I told him I was planning on wrapping the tiles around a piece of MDF and asked him if he thought that would work best. "No, that won't work.  You need to nail it."  So I spent a long time trying to nail it, but it didn't work.  So I wrapped it and it worked fine.  When I brought it in the house, he asked how I did it and I told him.  "WEll, that's what you should have done in the first place instead of nailing it!  

I suggested a few months ago we get rid of our piano.  It was in bad shape and needed a ton of work to make it playable.  WE've had it for ten years without ever using it or getting it fixed.  "No, we are NOT getting rid of the piano!"  End of discussion.  A month or so ago, I made plans on my own to get rid of it and told him it would be leaving soon.  "Good, the sooner the better.  We need to get rid of that thing."  

For years I had wanted to remove some hang down cabinets in our kitchen because they blocked the view into the dining room.  I got tired of ducking to speak to people in the other room or speaking to their chins.  When I suggested we have them removed, he immediately said it would not work.  So while he was out of town, I had two guys come over and remove the cabinets.  What a difference!  He never once told me it was a good idea or that it looked good.  But when someone came over and commented on it, he acted like it was such a smart idea to remove them.  

I told him a few months ago that a client (I'm a decorator) wanted me to paint her buffet and that she was bringing it to the house.  He was completely disgusted and said, "So now you're going to start painting for people!  YOu've never done that before.  I don't see this going well."  (HIs exact words.) I've made decent money painting a number of things for clients since then, but he has yet to compliment me on any of my work.  He also denies that he ever acted the way he did when I told him about that first buffet job.   He says those words never came out of his mouth.    

I think my husband, and yours, just automatically revert to negative mode because it's what they know.  It never occurs to them to do anything else.  Then they "forget"   Or at least my husband does.  

[Notwendy]

Yes, you have it right. He is negative -rages even- and then forgets all about it. Then he can come up with the same idea as his.

It can even be ridiculous. Once we had a bathroom pipe leak - yes, the yukky stuff. When I mentioned the awful odor, he said he didn't smell anything and nothing was wrong. Being that I was used to letting him call the shots I didn't... .until it was so awful I just called someone to clean up the awful mess.

Recently, the dryer didn't dry well. I mentioned it to him and the response was to chastise me for not emptying the lint catcher like he does

" I always empty it but when I do I find it full of stuff because you don't do it and the dryer works just fine for me"

Yup, I never empty it   do I? In all those years of doing most of the laundry in the house, you would have thought we'd have lint crawling all over the house by now if I didn't empty it, but I smiled and said nothing.

And called someone to repair the dryer. It was broken. His reply " good idea"

What is the point of the negative mode? I would consider him for major house decisions or costly expenses. He can certainly have a different opinion and voice it.

but I just don't get being negative about so much.

[Verbena]

Wow, we really are in the same boat.  The difference I think is that you are way nicer about it.  I just tend to say as little to him as possible because it cuts down on the criticisms and negativity if we aren't talking. 

My H sucks the joy right out of the room, so I go in a different room. 

[Notwendy]

I can feel shut down very quickly and also avoid speaking- and just leave the room. I surely have my moments too, although I am trying not to add to the turmoil by saying negative things too.

The ring thing, just got to me. So much emotion with that one.

[Verbena]

I can feel shut down very quickly and also avoid speaking- and just leave the room. I surely have my moments too, although I am trying not to add to the turmoil by saying negative things too.

The ring thing, just got to me. So much emotion with that one.

I let things go for so many years and just ignored his behavior, and that wasn't good either.  I don't like conflict at all.  Adding to the turmoil is never good.  For example,  I used to pretend to believe him when he would tell me that he answered me when I knew good and well that he didn't--unless he knows how to speak without making sound or moving his lips--which he doesn't.  Not fifteen minutes ago, he pulled that number on me again when he told me he answered me after I said his supper was ready. 

He didn't answer me. I was looking right at him.  He ignored me like he usually does but he INSISTED that he said "Ok, I'll be there in a minute."  He's done this so much and sincerely seems to believe that he is speaking when he isn't.  It's beyond bizarre.  He could tell from the look on my face that I didn't believe him--and I don't because he didn't say a word--but I just let it go.  I told him a few months I feel like this is some game he's playing with me, I don't like it, and to please stop it.    He became furious and said he doesn't play games. Yet he still does it and denies that he is. 

I understand how the deal with the ring has you upset. There is a lot of emotion tied to a wedding ring.  I actually quit wearing my wedding ring/engagement ring a few years ago along with my other rings because they were too tight and annoyed me. For me, the rings don't mean that much anymore because my marriage is such a sham.  My husband refuses to discuss anything about our marriage with me.  Period.