How do you shake off the negative?

[Hmcbart]

I'm just trying to figure out which of you is my wife with an assumed name. I get accused of everything you are saying about your husbands. The difference being, I don't do 90% of the things I'm accused of.

The 10% I will confess to... .yah, I did them. Not my proudest moments sometimes.

I refuse to paint or fix anything around the house. Not because I can't do it and sometimes it's not because I'm being lazy. Mostly is because nothing I do can meet her expectations. Painting... .God forbid there is a tiny speck of missed area. Dry wall... .it doesn't match the original stuff perfectly... .she won't be happy.

After getting criticized for not doing a good enough job so many times, I gave up.  I just tell her to hire someone or do it herself. She usually does neither, she can't live up to her own expectations. We've been in this house for 8 years and there are only two pictures of our kids hanging up.

As far as the ring... .I have had some complaints over her ring even before it needed to be resized. Mostly I took them as jokes. She complained about the size of the diamond mostly. I do get an occasional jab about the cost.

20 years ago, my father gave me a ring her had bought on sale many years before. It was a men's ring, a bit gaudy but big and heavy (lots of gold). The diamonds weren't bad size for a men's ring either. I took it to the jeweler and we designed the new one and melted this one down.

So her engagement ring cost me $275, twenty years ago. At the time that was technically 3 months salary. I had just gotten out of the navy and was in college. But I got to design the ring and then break the mold. She has the only one in existence.

To change it or do anything different to it would be a bit insulting to me. But I can also agree that it could use a larger diamond. I just didn't have the money back then to make it any better. So you husband could be looking at it from that point of view. But then again... .according to my wife, it's always what I want never what she wants (projection).

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[ASD]

Like many of the posts here, I feel like you guys are watching my life! Very similar things have happened to me with my (now) diagnosed wife.

My fingers have gotten bigger over the years and with the Florida heat, my ring was hurting so I took it off.  She lost a lot of weight and her rings are too big.  I have suggested for a couple of years now that we have them resized and we give them to one another on a special occasion.  Well that's just corny and stupid according to her.  People who do that will end up divorced soon after.  Why do I need her to wear the ring? Blah blah. 

I got a call from a regional newspaper editor to tell me that she had chosen me to get an award for my achievements in my organization, so I was very surprised and excited.  I ran to tell my wife the announcement would come out on her birthday, and there would be a ceremony 6 months later.  I was genuinely thrilled.  It turns out that I am an awful person because a foam board announcing an award I got 8 years ago from the same paper is no longer in my office.  My wife got drunk at the party and asked the editor if she could take it.  So to remind her who I was talking about I told her, you remember the lady you asked for that poster.  Oh yes, where's that poster now?  I said I don't remember.  I think when I changed jobs 4 years ago I threw it out. ... .and because of that she went on to tell me how insensitive I am and that I offended her (about a poster she had forgotten I had).  Now I don't even want to go to the awards dinner and have added it to the list of things I don't like to remember; it's a long list that included anniversaries, birthdays, new year's ... .etc.

I don't know why they do that.  It hurts so much, and yes, you can say "Ok, what's next," but What the heck?  Why should we have to keep putting up with it?  It seems deliberate.  I know that when there's a birthday or special occasion coming up, some big issue will be close at hand to overshadow the whole thing.  It hurts and the BPD needs to understand his/her tendencies and figure out a way to negotiate around his/her own obstacles. 

I am sorry that you both had to deal with those BS issues.  It's needless.  I'm venting... .

[OffRoad]

If someone else made the same suggestion, he would possibly agree with them.  If I make it, he instantly tells me it's wrong just for the sake of disagreeing with me.  Then he often "forgets" that he disagreed with me.  

^^^ That drives me INSANE! I will suggest something and it is poo-pooed as if it's the stupidest thing ever. Then someone else brings up the exact same thing and it's the greatest idea EVER! And he acts like I never mentioned it.

I hate that more than anything... .it's like I don't exist... .

[misuniadziubek]

If someone else made the same suggestion, he would possibly agree with them.  If I make it, he instantly tells me it's wrong just for the sake of disagreeing with me.  Then he often "forgets" that he disagreed with me.  

^^^ That drives me INSANE! I will suggest something and it is poo-pooed as if it's the stupidest thing ever. Then someone else brings up the exact same thing and it's the greatest idea EVER! And he acts like I never mentioned it.

I hate that more than anything... .it's like I don't exist... .

LOL. Here's a funny anecdote.

My pwBPD commented on someone's post on Facebook back in January. He vaguely mentioned that someone had posted their 'miscarriage' as a life event and that it was really morbid.

I accidentally came across the post. Wasn't intentionally stalking.

Bring up, 'hey isn't it really weird that Facebook allows you to post miscarriage as a life event?"

He's just like no... .not at all. It's pretty normal.

I quote his VERY arguments from the comment section on Facebook about how morbid that is.


He responds with... .That's just you and your prejudiced, close-minded upbringing because you grew up in a Catholic family and are judgmental against people by reflex. Miscarriages are normal life events. There is nothing wrong with it.

I'm just laughing on the inside.

[Notwendy]

Husbands, I understand how you are feeling. Sometimes I see myself in the complaints from the husbands as well. I think it is because many marriages between people who don't have BPD can have similar issues with each spouse feeling overly criticized and unappreciated. Perhaps the difference is that when there is a personality disorder, the situation is exaggerated.

I don't have any complaints about the original appearance of the ring my H bought for me. Honestly, he could have showed up with just about any ring and I would have been over the moon to marry him. But the marriage was followed by years of verbal and emotional abuse and that sadness is attached to it. If it was all about getting a ring that I thought looked better, I could have bought my own , but I wanted to incorporate the ring I have into the new one because even if times were tough, the ring is meaningful to me. It isn't one that was designed from an original, but a standard design that is seen everywhere. That doesn't mean it isn't special to me, but if my H had designed it for me, or it was an heirloom, I would not consider touching that.

If my H does anything, paint, whatever, I don't complain about it. I don't complain to him, because, sadly, I don't have to. Whatever I say tends to be "heard" as one. I have been raged at for things I don't intend. I realized that he rages because he hurts and thinks I am hurting him, and I don't want to hurt him.  He is his own worst enemy but he thinks that his pain comes from me. This issue I have with picking out things like paint is that I can spend days looking for colors and ideas, and he can veto it in a second. It is discouraging to me.

However, I do understand that he can feel unappreciated and criticized because, I think, the feeling of being discouraged can go both ways. They can paint us black, and we can feel defeated. I did burn out during the years he painted me black, and so even if he tries I can think, well will it last, is this real?

But thanks to your comments, I have been thinking maybe I should just resize the original ring and wear it if it meant he feels it isn't criticizing it. In the end, I really don't care as much about rings as I do the people in my life. Asking to change it was no different than asking for anything else, and grin and bearing the initial negative response, except that this one was much harder to take emotionally. I don't want a ring given to me with resentment.  

[vortex of confusion]

But thanks to your comments, I have been thinking maybe I should just resize the original ring and wear it if it meant he feels it isn't criticizing it. In the end, I really don't care as much about rings as I do the people in my life. Asking to change it was no different than asking for anything else, and grin and bearing the initial negative response, except that this one was much harder to take emotionally. I don't want a ring given to me with resentment.  

I am coming to the conversation late. If you don't want to mess with the original ring, there is another option. My original wedding ring got too tight so my husband and I went and got new matching bands together. Recently, mine got too tight again. I could have had it resized. I quit wearing it for a while. When we were out and about one day, we were at some store that had cheap stainless steel rings. I had been toying with getting something super cheap for a while but hadn't said anything to my husband. We were standing there looking at these rings and I said, "Hey, I think I am going to get one of these cheap rings to wear since the original is too tight. I don't want to mess with the originals." So, I bought a 9 dollar stainless steel band to wear. The originals are in tact and haven't been touched. Would something like that work for you?

[Notwendy]

I wouldn't mind doing that, but the band I have is resized. The engagement ring isn't. I was thinking about resetting the diamond into a new design. I wasn't unhappy with it, but seeing the rings in the store gave me ideas, and well, I started to dream... .

Shared that wish and the negative response just threw me. I guess I have this fantasy that my H would say "sure honey, lets do it" ( within budget but that's a given) which he actually did say- but after I cried at his reaction. I guess the fantasy didn't include the tears.

The first ring was a total surprise. If I brought up marriage, he didn't want to discuss it. I should have seen this as a red flag, but he would explain that he was under stress at work.  He didn't ask me what kind of ring I would like, and we didn't look at any rings together before he bought it. Of course I loved it. I would have loved anything because I loved him, but the years to follow made me wonder if he really wanted to marry me in the first place.

I haven't actually spent time looking in a jewelry store thinking about what I might like. That's a new step for me as a now recovering co-dependent, and I saw styles that I would truly love and expressed that. That hasn't gone so well for me in the past. It is a very hard thing for me to  dare ask for something that I like for no reason other than I like it. So I didn't have the personal strength to get through a negative response in this case. Mostly when this happens, I tend to back down.

My question involved shaking this negative. I think he also feels badly that he reacted that way because, he knows that it hurt my feelings. I just wish it had not been this difficult.

[Hmcbart]

Wendy,


I hope you didn't take my post to mean that your husband was correct in his actions. That was not my intent. I was only try to convey what I would be thinking. My brain work differently that his to be sure.

I often find myself trying to see things from the perspective of someone with BPD. This is more of a coping mechanism than anything else. Probably a codependent coping mechanism.

I know there are probably many things my wife has negative emotions attached to. I, unlike someone with BPD am willing to get rid of most of these things if it would make my wife happier.

Unfortunately for me, I think the one thing that has the most negative emotions for her, is me.

ASD, I do find myself saying What the heck quite often these days. But in the end, I don't think she will ever change. I'm not sure, even if she knew what she was doing, that she would try to change. It's kind of like trying to change the weather. You can do anything about it but you can learn to build a shelter or move to a different place where the storms are as bad.

[Notwendy]

Don't worry, I didn't think I was being considered as having BPD,  but it isn't the first time I considered it- after all, I was raised by the Queen of the Queen/Witches with BPD and have learned at the feet of the master. Part of my own personal journey has been to undo many of the things we were taught as children. I think we bring those painful memories into our marriage. I know the fear of asking for something I want is a remnant of that.

Likewise for my H, growing up with a (IMHO) verbally abusive father who criticized him constantly is the reason he has that "I'm not good enough" tape in his head. We bring our childhood hurts into our marriages- all of them. Perhaps the difference is that those of us who don't have BPD can say " wow, I'm messed up from my messed up parents, and now my marriage is a mess and I need to go get a handle on this " The person with BPD says " There is nothing wrong with me, it's all someone else's fault"

I guess my actual wish is that I had a voice in my FOO, but I didn't and I am in a marriage where having a voice creates all kinds of difficulties for both of us. However, I am starting to assert that voice, even if it isn't easy.

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Notwendy,

Here's my take on the ring issue, coming from a former co-dependent. Get yourself the ring you want! Consequences be damned! He probably won't even notice that it's different. You're trying to get him to be happy and supportive about an issue that doesn't matter at all to him and he's looking for the hidden insult. As it is, he probably thinks you're being overly dramatic about something inconsequential.

Do it for you. You don't need his permission. I'm sure you've squirreled away some money of your own. Do it as a statement of reclaiming your life, your self. It will be a merger of your marriage and your new sense of self. Just do it!

Cat

[Notwendy]

Thanks Cat, I am still looking at settings online. I will know it when I see it, whether I get it for me or he does, or I reset the ring or not. But if I don't reset the ring, I won't get something that looks like an engagement ring- it will be a different stone/style altogether. Who knows what I will find. I won't break the bank either, that isn't my style, and yes, I have saved some of my own money to buy one.

[Notwendy]

Google is my friend

Found this article on dealing with negative people. While not particular to BPD, it touches on some of the issues- fear- that could lead to people being negative.

With my H, it is automatic. When presented with a new idea- the first thing that comes out of his mouth is negative. Later on, he may realize he doesn't mean it and he is sorry, but it is hard to undo mean words.

As this article suggests, I'm not going to buy into the negativity.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201303/dealing-negative-people

[ColdEthyl]

Google is my friend

Found this article on dealing with negative people. While not particular to BPD, it touches on some of the issues- fear- that could lead to people being negative.

With my H, it is automatic. When presented with a new idea- the first thing that comes out of his mouth is negative. Later on, he may realize he doesn't mean it and he is sorry, but it is hard to undo mean words.

As this article suggests, I'm not going to buy into the negativity.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sapient-nature/201303/dealing-negative-people

*Nods* Great article! My H does the same stuff. If he didn't think of it, it's a bad idea. We can be watching the same show... .but his idea of what is going on can be so different than mine, you would think we were watching different shows.

I remind myself that everything he "takes in", IE everything he sees, hears, etc has to go through a BPD filter, or a strainer. And as we all know... .that BPD filter is lying, negative sod. I'm human... .I screw up by saying the wrong thing or in the wrong way. Sometimes, I don't give a fig about his filter at all. But, when something he does or says really hurts me, I remember that filter and I imagine pushing what I said through that filter and see if I can hear what he heard.

[Hmcbart]

The funniest part of this is how my wife does the exact same thing, but it gets projected on to me and ultimately it becomes... .wait for it... .You are always so negative, do you treat the people you work with like this?

Some days I laugh because I know the personality of the me who leaves the house... .I like him better, he's the normal one ... .shhh! don't tell anyone. 

[ColdEthyl]

Yep or when we argue and I start yelling... .he looks at me like I'm an alien and tells me to calm down become I'm "shaking like a meth addict" I almost just lost it and laughed right there. I asked him, "So... .it isn't pretty is it? When someone is yelling and pacing? Be lucky I didn't pull holes in the walls when I'm mad like you did here... .here... .here... .here... ."

He decided not to bring that up again 

[Hmcbart]

Yep or when we argue and I start yelling... .he looks at me like I'm an alien and tells me to calm down become I'm "shaking like a meth addict" I almost just lost it and laughed right there. I asked him, "So... .it isn't pretty is it? When someone is yelling and pacing? Be lucky I didn't pull holes in the walls when I'm mad like you did here... .here... .here... .here... ."

He decided not to bring that up again 

At my house the holes in the wall would be justified because of something I did or didn't do. I walked out during her rage once after telling her up front to stop talking to me this way. She literally told me that she wouldn't get mad at me if I would have made a mistake on something that she made the same mistake on with some forms for the kids.

So basically she had to yell, belittle and treat me like a child because I made the same mistake she made. I felt like I was living in one of those TLC movies where the wife is physically abused and the husband says he wouldn't have to hit her if she would have spilled the milk. Except I'm the spouse and the abuse is verbal.

[Michelle27]

On the topic of rings, my engagement ring was picked out by my husband himself, and I like it.  But I am partial to sets, especially a matching band and anniversary band on the other side, sautered together.  So I used old jewelry of mine (lots of gold and some diamond chips to have a jeweller design and make two rings for me after we got engaged.  My husband was all for it and we went together to pick out his wedding band which he liked.  On the day we got married (casual ceremony while we were camping with only close family for the ceremony and friends for a BBQ "reception" at our campsite afterwards... .2nd marriage for both of us so didn't want the hoopla), he had the mother of all rages and threw his ring at me while on the beach, just the 2 of us.  I now know what it came from was the engulfment of the marriage getting to him, but I didn't know that BPD existed back then.  He went on to not wear his wedding ring for most of the last decade until I almost left him after years of promises to get help and nothing.  And now he wears it attached to his watch, not his finger because he lost some weight and it no longer fits well. 

Funny that there are so many issues over rings.  Mine isn't so much about my rings (I love them) but about his soiling my memory of our wedding day.  If we make it through (we are separated now, kind of a therapeutic separation), I intend to raise the idea of renewing our vows to replace that horrible memory of our wedding day.

[Notwendy]

Rings represent relationships. When I think of all the hopes and dreams a young couple has when choosing a ring, it makes me sad too. I remember being over the moon when he gave me mine, having no clue what was ahead.

So it was with some sadness and wistfulness that I looked at rings, and got the idea of making one that fit who I was today. I get the feeling of not wanting to add bad memories. My H has bought me nice things, and done nice things for me, but during arguments, he has thrown it in my face as ammunition. When he accused me of being rude to his family ( all in his head) he brought up several incidents where he was nice to mine. He took us on a  nice family trip and then, in a rage, brought up the fact that it was expensive. My response to these is then, just don't do it. I would prefer to see my family on my own, take my own trips without him. Then, he says "now I am in the hole and you hold this against me"- accusing me of bringing up every little slight.

He will say to me that I remember every little slight and don't forgive anything, like some people talk about their partners here, but that isn't my intent. If I bring something up it would be because I was confused about it. However, he remembers the nice things he does, and throws it all out as ammunition to win a fight, so it makes it hard to appreciate what he does do. I have detached from these arguments now. I used to bring things up, not as punishment but because I wanted some kind of closure or understanding. He sees is as punishment though, and it is futile to bring up what was said/done in dysregulation.

So one thing he said to me was " are you going to pick out the ring setting without me?". Well, I wouldn't want to but if he is going to be a pill over it, then I would rather do it alone. I don't want a ring argued over, or brought up as ammunition later. So we will see. I enjoy looking at pictures and getting ideas.

Michelle, I hope your marriage turns around for you, but however it goes, I think you are a strong person.

[Michelle27]

Thank you, Notwendy.  I think my strength comes from realizing I can and will no longer take the abuse I took for so long.  Someone in this thread (sorry, I can't remember right now who) mentioned self respect and how our pwBPD NEED us to have that self respect. I see that now with my H who seems to respect me more now in some ways now that I am standing up for my values and myself.  Although friends who know him and I pretty well are not yet convinced he is seeking help/therapy for himself or just to keep me.  I don't know either but I am glad he is doing things (pursuing assessment with our local mental health organization, accepting the kind of odd separation we are doing without argument, listening to me when I express dissatisfaction with certain behaviors, even signing himself up for anger management, taking CBT classes he found himself, etc.).  There is a good section from the Stop Walking on Eggshells book that explains how setting and maintaining boundaries is something the pwBPD needs us to do for their own mental health as well as our own.  I now clearly see how I made things worse by being a "victim" so long.  No more.  Even if my marriage doesn't work out, I know I will be fine, and what I have learned will allow me to never again be in an abusive relationship (my first marriage was abusive, mostly physical) so clearly I have issues too that I am working on.

I have to say, that while I know I'm in the relatively early stages of getting myself healed and healthy, it is most empowering. 

[Notwendy]

I also see where having better boundaries has made positive changes as well Michelle, it is well worth it.

[ColdEthyl]

@Michelle27 keep doing what you are doing. I've seen a lot of changed in my H since I have stopped allowing him to bully me. Just the other night, we were watching an episode of House (if you ever saw it... .dude's pretty close to BPD) and his GF was telling him he's selfish, and he always will be. She said she will always love him, but she deserved someone who cared about her and her thoughts and feelings.

That struck a cord with my H because he said to me that he should treat me better. He knows he's selfish, he just doesn't always see it right away, then it's hard for him to admit it.

I don't expect him to change over night, but I will tell you I see improvements everyday.

[Michelle27]

@Michelle27 keep doing what you are doing. I've seen a lot of changed in my H since I have stopped allowing him to bully me. Just the other night, we were watching an episode of House (if you ever saw it... .dude's pretty close to BPD) and his GF was telling him he's selfish, and he always will be. She said she will always love him, but she deserved someone who cared about her and her thoughts and feelings.

That struck a cord with my H because he said to me that he should treat me better. He knows he's selfish, he just doesn't always see it right away, then it's hard for him to admit it.

I don't expect him to change over night, but I will tell you I see improvements everyday.

Yes, I do know House and wow... .never thought of him that way before but it rings true.

And thank you.  I don't know where the path I'm taking is going to wind up as far as my marriage goes, but I know with 100% certainty that it's the right path for ME right now.  Taking care of me first is so foreign to me that I question it regularly, but I know it's right.