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Author Topic: It's Not My Partner's Responsibility To Make Me Feel Safe  (Read 516 times)
vortex of confusion
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« on: May 12, 2015, 06:57:51 PM »

I recently listened to a recording about relationships. One of the things that stood out for me was that he said that it is not our partner's responsibility to make us feel safe in the relationship. If I do not feel safe in the relationship, that is on me, not my partner. That totally flies in the face of what I have thought for years. That totally flies in the face of what I have told my husband.

I have often told him that I do not feel emotionally safe in the relationship, which is why I don't open up to him a lot of the time. I am afraid of how he will react. I am afraid that he will make it about him or will completely invalidate me.

I have been thinking about this a lot. I am wondering what other people's thoughts on this are.
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 07:15:23 PM »

I agree, of course there has to be the absence of physical harm, and also a way to walk away from verbal abuse ( go to the next room).

I have mentioned to my T that I feel unsafe as well, and she has ruled out any actual threats to my well being, so with that, she has told me that her goal is for me to not be so reactive to my H, get better boundaries and then, his moods and what he says won't get to me. I will feel safer in his presence because I am stronger emotionally. That doesn't mean I tolerate verbal abuse.

12 steps helped me to do this too. There is a lot of work on fears.

My mother used to get to me and it was hard to be around her. One day, though, I noticed that she didn't trigger me. It was like a miracle. She hasn't changed, but I have. That doesn't mean we are all cozy and close, but she can't push my buttons.

Then it happened with my H. He went off on me about something and it was so absurd that I had to stop myself from giggling. He really doesn't push my buttons as much, although he still can. I am much more vulnerable to his comments than I am to my mothers, but it is better.

I feel safer now that his comments don't get to me as much as they used to. But certain topics still can- like the ring thing, but when he accuses me of things that just are not true, I don't buy into them, and they don't hurt.

It can be done. I credit a lot to the codependency 12 step program.
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 07:47:28 PM »

I am on the same page as you... .I would disagree up and down with that speaker.  I look at it from my angle... .when i love someone (anyone even my child)... .i want them to feel safe with me because i care about their sense of security, i want them to trust me, and because i dont want someone i love to fear me. So i disagree whole-heartedly with the speaker. I do think it is the partner's responsibilty to foster an atmosphere of safety and trust.

Maybe what the speaker is saying is that if we dont feel safe in a relationship, that it is our responsibility to get out of the relationship and find a relationship that is safe?
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 08:12:29 PM »

I am on the same page as you... .I would disagree up and down with that speaker.  I look at it from my angle... .when i love someone (anyone even my child)... .i want them to feel safe with me because i care about their sense of security, i want them to trust me, and because i dont want someone i love to fear me. So i disagree whole-heartedly with the speaker. I do think it is the partner's responsibilty to foster an atmosphere of safety and trust.

Maybe what the speaker is saying is that if we dont feel safe in a relationship, that it is our responsibility to get out of the relationship and find a relationship that is safe?

I think Notwendy has it right. If there are no actual threats such as abuse, then it is up to me to set boundaries and figure out ways to get my needs met without relying on my partner.

If my spouse is triggering me all of the time, is it up to him to stop triggering me OR is it up to me to find ways to NOT be triggered?

The ideal is that I would tell my spouse and he would stop. That isn't the reality that I am living and that isn't the reality that most of the people on this board are living. The reality is that are partners continue to do crappy things even when we tell them, "Hey, that is crappy and I don't like it." So, if I want to stay in the relationship, then it is up to me to figure out what my triggers are, what my boundaries are, and what my needs are. I can do all of that without the input of my spouse.

And, one of the other concepts that was brought up was being committed to ourselves. I don't remember exactly how it was worded but it was something to the effect of "Most people are more than willing to be committed to the relationship. However, very few people are willing to be committed to themselves and personal growth." He asked a question like, "Are you committed to yourself? Are you committed to growing as a person?"

It was funny listening to the recording because he pretty much anticipated what I was thinking which was, "Why do I need to grow, I am not the one with the problem?" The gist of it is that I need to grow because that is all I can do. I can't force my husband to change or grow or do anything. All I can do is look at what I am able to do. Any kind of wanting or hoping that my husband will change is futile. It is complete insanity to sit here and say, "It is my husband's responsibility to make me feel safe." because I know that he isn't going to do it. If I want to feel safe, it is up to me to figure out how to make it happens. It stinks to high heaven but at the same time it gives me a heck of a lot more hope than what I felt when I was looking at him and hoping that he would change and trying to put responsibilities on him that there is no way he will fulfill.

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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 11:25:35 PM »

Yeah, sad as it is, we sort of have to take a lot of normal things out of the equation if we have a BPD partner. I mean, ideally, we would feel emotionally safe in a committed relationship, but people with BPD do things that can leave us feeling anything but safe. The very nature of BPD is like an emotional roller coaster, for them, and for us.

I like the bit about being committed to yourself. BPD relationships seem to be so lopsided, and we often put our needs down the list, but why? I've spent way too much time and effort trying to make BPDh happy, but has he given MY happiness a moment's thought? I seriously doubt he has. It's just not in him.

I think most of us are taught that love and marriages sometimes require being selfless, and boy, do those with BPD love those of us who took that lesson to heart. I think we need to practice more self love, because it's hard to get your needs met from someone with BPD, because they can't even meet their own. My BPDh is just now understanding that it's not MY job to make him happy, and that everyone has to own their own issues. Man, I love our new marriage therapist, who has really been stressing all that.

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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2015, 12:01:21 AM »

I think Notwendy has it right. If there are no actual threats such as abuse, then it is up to me to set boundaries and figure out ways to get my needs met without relying on my partner.

If my spouse is triggering me all of the time, is it up to him to stop triggering me OR is it up to me to find ways to NOT be triggered?

I don't think feeling safe in a relationship and being triggered is the same, though. Can we control our own actions. Yes. Should we? Yes. Should we always have to be on guard so that we won't say something that triggers someone else that will trigger us? I don't think so. People without BPD partners don't have to do that.

I sometimes think that having a relationship with a person with BPD makes us think we aren't worth having a relationship we feel safe in. And yes, I think that a person should strive to make the other person in their relationship feel safe. If we are all just separate entities who shouldn't rely on anyone for anything, including emotional support, what exactly is the point of a relationship?
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2015, 06:02:33 AM »

I don't think feeling safe in a relationship and being triggered is the same, though. Can we control our own actions. Yes. Should we? Yes. Should we always have to be on guard so that we won't say something that triggers someone else that will trigger us? I don't think so. People without BPD partners don't have to do that.

No, because that's essentially walking on eggshells.  I don't think it's fair to expect this of our partners either, for them to be on guard because we might be triggered by something they say-- it's a two-way street.  Also, people without BPD partners might have their own set of personal issues they're dealing with; it's an idealistic view to think otherwise, in my opinion, there is no utopia.

I sometimes think that having a relationship with a person with BPD makes us think we aren't worth having a relationship we feel safe in. And yes, I think that a person should strive to make the other person in their relationship feel safe.

What if "our triggers" are totally invalid to the relationship we're in now, starting out long before?  Is it up to our partners to take care of our unfinished business?  Maybe we're afraid to ask nicely for what we need Idea

If we are all just separate entities who shouldn't rely on anyone for anything, including emotional support, what exactly is the point of a relationship?

When we "can" take care of our emotional world, we're not so reliant on someone else to do the job for us and more appreciative of the support we do get, it becomes recognizable... .or not... .

As adults, the choice to stay is ours, for whatever our reasons might be and I feel it has a lot to do with values.


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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2015, 06:42:50 AM »

I don't think feeling safe in a relationship and being triggered is the same, though.

What reasons do people usually feel unsafe in a relationship?

I know from my own personal experience that I haven't felt safe in the relationship because my husband says and does things that upset/trigger me. For years, I was of the mindset "I would feel safer if my husband would just change his behavior/do something different/be more mindful." Where did that mindset get me? It got me frustrated and triggered and perpetuated the cycle of him doing things to upset/trigger me and then me getting mad and upset. It doesn't work.

If I want to feel safe in the relationship, then maybe I need to look at the things that upset me/trigger me. If the behavior is that bad, then why do I continue to tolerate it? I can set boundaries, check myself, or exit the relationship all together. Since exiting the relationship isn't an option that I want to choose at this time, I am going to try the other options.

Excerpt
And yes, I think that a person should strive to make the other person in their relationship feel safe.

What if it is almost impossible to make the other person feel safe? Change the statement around to 'It is not MY responsibility to make my partner feel safe.' A pwBPD or BPD traits can be very difficult to make feel safe. For example, there was a time when my partner would freak out if he couldn't get a hold of me for some reason. He would call me quite a few times during the day and it made it difficult for me to accomplish anything. When I tried to set a boundary about the phone calls, he felt abandoned and unsafe. If it is my responsibility to make him feel safe, then it logically follows that I shouldn't set boundaries that make him feel unsafe. The process of setting boundaries quite often leads to extinction bursts because the new boundaries make them feel unsure and unsafe. The extinction bursts tend to stop once they realize that they are still safe in the relationship. It is up to them to soothe themselves.

Excerpt
If we are all just separate entities who shouldn't rely on anyone for anything, including emotional support, what exactly is the point of a relationship?

I am not quite sure how to articulate what I am thinking. First off, I am an individual that is a separate being/entity from my husband. Part of the problem with some relationships is that people lose themselves. I have been listening to some recordings about how to hold on to yourself while in a relationship. These recordings aren't directed towards relationships with disordered individuals. These recordings are targeted towards ALL people that are in relationships.

The point of a relationship is to share your life with somebody else. What you want out of that relationship is up to you to decide. What to share should be up to the individuals involved. Two people can be in a business relationship where there is NO expectation of emotional support. A business relationship might fit that. Even if my husband can't provide emotional support, I find value in the relationship because he can help me parent and we can share financial resources.

If a person is getting nothing at all out of relationship, then perhaps there should be some re-evaluation. If a person re-evaluates the relationship and can't find anything good about it, then is that the partner's problem? Is it the partner's responsibility to change things until you do find something worth staying for? That might work in an ideal world.

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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 07:13:56 AM »

I understand the response to the speaker " why do I have to change- I am not the one with the problem?"  That is how I felt when I finally got my H to go to marital T with me. He had refused for years- still doesn't like to go and we have a minimal schedule there. I expected her to point the finger at him, but it was all about me, and the problem ( co-dependency) that I had. I was so upset as it seemed unfair that I had the problem, but I did. The person most upset about things has a problem, and expecting my H ( who has his own issues, but ruled the house with his anger) had things his way. He rages, I walk on eggshells and try to accommodate. However, I also had to consider my own payoff to this arrangement- it kept the peace and me in "victim" mode.

Learning to take care of myself emotionally was a new path. I'm pretty sure that I was born for the sole purpose of taking care of my mother- at least from her perspective, and so the co dependency training started from the get go. I'm actually grateful for the good qualities that my H does have as I must have been a walking magnet for people with PD's.

As to making another person feel safe, I realize my H can't do this for me, because I can't do this for him. It's astonishing, because as much as I saw myself as an accommodating noodle- he has told me he sees me as an assertive threatening person who has hurt him deeply. Huh?    I literally felt like a Stepford wife, taking the responsibility for the house and kids, while he came and went as he pleased, really doing whatever he asked for because I wanted to make him happy. However, I realized in time that I could say just about anything, and he could perceive it as a cold cutting criticism.  Did I ever complain? sure, but that made things so much worse because if he could imagine being criticized, then being really criticized is devastating.

So, I backed off ,not walking on eggshells this time but because, being the enemy isn't something I wish to be. However, I can't change his perception. Thankfully, the marriage T is helping with that, and he is willing to listen to me explain that I am not trying to hurt him ( when he isn't upset at the moment). However, one of the biggest changes since I have worked on myself is that I am less reactive to him. He doesn't trigger me as much, and so I trigger him less. I can also recognize when we are both triggered and pull myself back out of the circular arguments.

This doesn't mean I don't wish that someone would make me feel emotionally safe. I think it is something we all dream of. But I think that person has to be me. 
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« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 08:06:56 AM »

As to making another person feel safe, I realize my H can't do this for me, because I can't do this for him. It's astonishing, because as much as I saw myself as an accommodating noodle- he has told me he sees me as an assertive threatening person who has hurt him deeply. Huh?    m

So... .I think there is a big gulf between how we react to another person... .and how we go about attempting to be in a good r/s with that person "make them feel safe... ."

Almost two different conversations... .but the realization must be there that we can't "make" anyone feel a certain way.

That is very different from behaving in an emotionally healthy way in a r/s.

Such as... .(my current favorite)... .asking someone how they feel... .vice telling them (and possibly calling them names because of how they feel).

I realize my wife is not at the point now where she can consistently address this successfully... .but... .sometimes I see the effort.

Boy... .not really sure if I made a coherent post or not... .but I agree it's up to us to make ourselves feel safe... .and I don't think agreeing with that means we shouldn't try to make others feel safe.

We should lead by example... .

FF
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« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 10:54:20 AM »

As to making another person feel safe, I realize my H can't do this for me, because I can't do this for him. It's astonishing, because as much as I saw myself as an accommodating noodle- he has told me he sees me as an assertive threatening person who has hurt him deeply. Huh?    I literally felt like a Stepford wife, taking the responsibility for the house and kids, while he came and went as he pleased, really doing whatever he asked for because I wanted to make him happy. However, I realized in time that I could say just about anything, and he could perceive it as a cold cutting criticism.  Did I ever complain? sure, but that made things so much worse because if he could imagine being criticized, then being really criticized is devastating.

I can relate to this. My husband sees me as the strong one and he thinks I don't need him. Basically, what I heard is that I need somebody that is stronger than him. I am too capable and headstrong and he did so well when I was pregnant because I needed him because I was fragile. It irritated the dickens out of me to have him tell me that my strength bothers him. I have tried to defer to him on lots of things. I have deliberately NOT done things so that he wouldn't get jealous/upset/whatever. Another comment that he has made is that I make things look too easy. What am I a supposed to do? Struggle and fail and be a fading flower? That isn't who I am. I am not going to play the part of a damsel in distress so my husband can feel good about himself and feel safe in the relationship.

Excerpt
This doesn't mean I don't wish that someone would make me feel emotionally safe. I think it is something we all dream of. But I think that person has to be me. 

That is a very hard pill to swallow. I want to feel protected and cared for by my partner. I want to feel emotionally safe. And the only way that I am going to get it is to do it for myself. If I am going to stay in this relationship, that is the reality.
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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2015, 11:08:32 AM »

 

VOC,

I hear you... .I'm trying to organize a reasonable goal in my head that my wife should be able to make progress... .so that she doesn't behave as a persecutor.

I think there is a big difference in someone that omits things... .fails to say things... .doesn't consider things... ."acts of omission"... .

Vice... .someone that actively does hurtful things... .not things that are in my opinion hurtful... .but things that are generally accepted to be abusive.

We've gone a long way... .made great progress.  I think if we get to the point where there are a "couple" of issues a year with upsetness... .or "abusive behavior"... .that might be normal... .at least for us.  I can see doing that long term.

I think a lot of how my wife will get there... .is me "reacting" better... .doing for myself... .which helps her... .which lessens her outbursts... .which helps me... .which helps her... .and so on.

FF
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« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2015, 11:22:42 AM »

So... .I think there is a big gulf between how we react to another person... .and how we go about attempting to be in a good r/s with that person "make them feel safe... ."

Something else that I recently read/heard is that the relationship is only as strong as its weakest link. That is another hard pill to swallow. No matter how hard I work or what I do, the relationship is only going to be as strong as the weakest link. I am still trying to wrap my head around that. Basically, the communication skills within the relationship won't improve as long as the weakest link doesn't work on communication skills. That doesn't mean that I can't work on my communication skills as an individual. I can learn how to clearly ask for what I want even if the other person responds in a crappy manner. I can practice MY skills in the relationship but that might not amount to much. I am not working on myself for the sake of the relationship. I am working on myself for my own mental health.

Excerpt
Almost two different conversations... .but the realization must be there that we can't "make" anyone feel a certain way.

That is very different from behaving in an emotionally healthy way in a r/s.

Nope, I can't make anybody feel anything. If I want to behave in an emotionally healthy way, I have to look outside of the relationship for guidance and I have to look within myself.

Excerpt
I realize my wife is not at the point now where she can consistently address this successfully... .but... .sometimes I see the effort.

This was addressed a little and it relates to something that I used to tell parents on parenting forums. I don't know why I didn't make this connection before. The bottom line is that no matter how much I want somebody to do something, the other person can't do it if they lack the requisite skills. No matter how much somebody wants to do something, they can't do it if they lack the skills. Communication and the stuff that is important in adult relationships are all skills. Some people learned them and some people didn't. It is like the kid that wants to read but can't because she/he doesn't have all of the puzzle pieces in place. In order to read, you have to have phonemic awareness. You have to be exposed to lots and lots of text and language. There is a process that goes on in the brain that takes time. No matter how hard the kid tries to read, it isn't going to happen until all of the pieces fall into place. That explains why my husband and FF's wife can try and try and try but fail. They fail, not because they don't want to succeed. They fail because they lack the skill required to do those things. The only way to learn the skill is to keep trying and be committed to self growth.

Excerpt
Boy... .not really sure if I made a coherent post or not... .but I agree it's up to us to make ourselves feel safe... .and I don't think agreeing with that means we shouldn't try to make others feel safe.

I am going to continue to try to make my husband feel safe whenever possible. The catch for me is that it feels like what he needs to feel safe is what contributes to me feeling unsafe. It does feel a bit like competing interests. How can that be reconciled? My boundaries make me feel safer but invalidate him and make him feel unsafe.
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« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2015, 11:31:40 AM »

The reason why the triggers are hurtful is that we buy into them somehow, either because we fear they are true, or they are a little true. The way to overcoming being triggered is to reality check them. If they do bother us, then we can try to do something about them, and also just accept that we are not perfect. Often what they say is a projection of what is more about them, then about us.

I've mentioned the "pink elephant" statement. When our SO's accuse us of being rude, it can hurt if we buy into that reality and consider how we were rude, but we may not have been rude in the first place. Our wish to please them leads us to buy into their reality and try to fix it, but what if it isn't real in the first place. On the other hand, we know, 100% sure that we are not pink elephants and if our SO's were to accuse us of being pink elephants, we would think "huh? this makes no sense".

When we get better boundaries we can have what I call pink elephant moments where the accusations that used to trigger us don't make sense anymore. My pink elephant moment came when I picked out a present for my H's mother and showed it to him. Shortly afterwards, he went on a rant about how I was rude to his parents. This so flew in the face of my reality that it made no sense to me. Earlier, this would have hurt my feelings and I would have made a huge effort to please his parents to prove to him that I was not rude to them. It probably would not have changed his mind, since his opinion was not based on me, but his own feelings. I would have been very discouraged that I was considered rude despite my efforts.

Now, when he accuses me of something, I consider if it is true or not. I will apologize if it is true, but I will not JADE or try to disprove what isn't, nor will I get upset about it.
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« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2015, 11:39:30 AM »

I hear you... .I'm trying to organize a reasonable goal in my head that my wife should be able to make progress... .so that she doesn't behave as a persecutor.

Is that your goal for her or her goal for herself? If it your goal for her, is that realistic? What do you plan to do if she doesn't make reasonable progress? Is there a boundary in place for that? How do you define reasonable progress?

I guess I am still in a place where I am trying to focus on ME and MY goals for how I interact and communicate. In order to do that, I feel like I need to put my husband and his behavior out of my mind for a bit.

Excerpt
I think a lot of how my wife will get there... .is me "reacting" better... .doing for myself... .which helps her... .which lessens her outbursts... .which helps me... .which helps her... .and so on.

Since I have been changing my behavior and setting boundaries, my husband's behavior has changed considerably in a short time. I am trying NOT to get my hopes up. I agree with you that working on myself will help him. I am coming from a place where I have seen my husband improve and things would be okay for a while and then something would happen and it seemed like all progress went out the window. I would find myself thinking, "Why do I even bother? He is never going to change." I am trying to keep the focus on ME. Not because I want to be a selfish wench but because I know myself well enough to know that it is really easy for me to get sidetracked worrying about him and whether or not I am helping him or he is improving.

I hope my rambling makes some sort of sense. I am still trying to wrap my mind around all of this.
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« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2015, 01:28:53 PM »

I hope my rambling makes some sort of sense. I am still trying to wrap my mind around all of this.

I chuckled at this... .because I have written similar things recently... .

I definitely feel like I am rambling... .sometimes.

I also think that it the process that matters... .not the answer.  So... .we may never "wrap our minds around it... ."... .but we are making the effort... .trying to go in the right direction... .

Another way of saying... .it's the journey... .not the destination... .that matters. 

Hmm... .intended destination does matter though... .not sure how to put all that in a nice... .compact statement.

FF
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« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2015, 01:35:03 PM »

[

Something else that I recently read/heard is that the relationship is only as strong as its weakest link. That is another hard pill to swallow. No matter how hard I work or what I do, the relationship is only going to be as strong as the weakest link. 

Don't worry... .you don't have to swallow that pill... .because IMO... .this is NOT true.  I get the thought... .but there is an underlying assumption that I believe is not true.

I don't thing a r/s is a "single point of failure" thing.  Granted... .you are talking about strength in a r/s... .not failure... .but I think my comments are still applicable.

I think a better way to look at it is that you don't want several "weak links" to line up or break all at once.  Think that you have several chains... .not that you have one chain... .and any one link breaking... .breaks everything.

There is redundancy... .

The problems arise and "weakness" shows... .when you have several systems that fail at once.

So... .in a r/s... .communication is weak at the same time as emotional regulation for both partners.  In other words... .three failures at once... .boy... .that would be an interesting argument.

So... .my advice... .the take away from this... .is that it really is "worth it" to work on all the other parts of the r/s... .even if communication (for instance) will never make progress (assuming you know it won't make progress).  You can still have a successful  landing... .(pilot talk coming through... .)

Hopefully this makes sense... .

FF
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« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2015, 01:42:08 PM »

Is that your goal for her or her goal for herself? If it your goal for her, is that realistic? What do you plan to do if she doesn't make reasonable progress? Is there a boundary in place for that? How do you define reasonable progress?

All good questions... .she wouldn't say it exactly like that... .and doesn't say that as a goal consistently... .but she does (from time to time) acknowledge she has stuff to work on.

It is also a goal and measurement for myself.  Part of me learning to be stronger... .have better self esteem and self worth... .is to tolerate less bad behavior.  You get what you tolerate... .sort of... .

If she doesn't make reasonable progress... .well... .that will lead to more separateness and less interaction with me.  Assuming no reasonable progress means she can't have conversations without yelling and other stuff.  I won't be participating in that... .unless there is a real emergency. 

So... .yelling at me to get my attention because there really is a fire... .I'm ok with. 

The "metric" part of me wants to measure progress... .the part of me that has had to do a lot of work in MC... .understands that hard measurements tend to not work well in a r/s.  So... .I keep my definition loose... .basically... .as long as she is on the right road and trying to go in right direction... .I'll call that progress.

FF

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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2015, 01:42:20 PM »

Hmm... .intended destination does matter though... .not sure how to put all that in a nice... .compact statement.

I don't think it is possible to put it into a nice compact statement. I think my destination is to find peace within myself with or without my partner. I want to be able to relax and enjoy life without worrying so much about what my partner is or isn't doing. My destination is to be able to one day shrug off some of this stuff and be able to say, "meh, that is just who he is." I am not talking about allowing myself to be abused either. If my husband is being a jerk, I want to be able to shrug it off and think to myself, "Somebody must have pooped in his cheerios this morning." without wondering, "Oh my, what did I do wrong this time. How can I respond better? Was I validating enough? Did I invalidate him?" Doing all of that is exhausting and I want to get to a place where some things become second nature. If I can do that and stay in the relationship, that would be awesome. If I can't, well, then I can be certain that I gave it one heck of try.
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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2015, 01:52:48 PM »

 

I'm going to up the ante... .and say that I want similar goals... .but also want to be in a place where if my wife is a jerk to me... .I shrug it off... .but also state my truth... .in a proper way... .that she appears to me to be a jerk due to her behaviors.

Maybe an automatic SET. 

That puts ball back in her court... .I've stood up for myself... .but done so properly.

Maybe a better question... .issue... .is how to figure out when to shrug off... .and when to stand up. 

FF

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« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2015, 02:01:50 PM »

I don't thing a r/s is a "single point of failure" thing.  Granted... .you are talking about strength in a r/s... .not failure... .but I think my comments are still applicable.

I don't think the reference was to a single point of failure. The way I understand it is that I can be the best communicator in the world. That isn't going to matter if the person that I am trying to communicate with lacks the ability to communicate. Communication is a two way street. If both people don't possess a certain level of skill/ability, then communication will suffer. The communication will be at the level of the person with a lower skill level. If one person tries to operate above the other persons skill level, then that is likely to lead to frustration.

Excerpt
So... .in a r/s... .communication is weak at the same time as emotional regulation for both partners.  In other words... .three failures at once... .boy... .that would be an interesting argument.

Been there, done that, scared the bejeezus out of myself.

Excerpt
So... .my advice... .the take away from this... .is that it really is "worth it" to work on all the other parts of the r/s... .even if communication (for instance) will never make progress (assuming you know it won't make progress).  You can still have a successful  landing... .(pilot talk coming through... .)

I understand what you are getting it. It makes sense. I am coming from a place where my husband is in a 12 step program for sex addiction. His sponsor and everyone in the program pretty much says not to worry about the relationship. He needs to focus on himself. During the brief time that I worked with a sponsor, she said the same thing. She kept telling me not to worry about the relationship and that I need to work on myself. I quit that program because it wasn't working for me for a host of reasons.

Anyway, I am in this place where my partner seems to be so focused on himself and his recovery that trying to do any work on the relationship between us seems futile. I am trying to work with what I have  and what I have is a partner that is focusing on his 12 step program and his recovery. I asked him if he had talked to his counselor about me joining in on a session. He hasn't. He has only gone to one counseling appointment all year. He doesn't like counseling and is afraid of it because it reminds him too much of confession. I get that. I am not fond of counseling either. I ditched the 12 step program and found a trauma coach to work with me on my stuff.
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« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2015, 02:05:51 PM »

Maybe a better question... .issue... .is how to figure out when to shrug off... .and when to stand up. 

That should be its own thread!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I have gone between the extreme of shrugging everything off to taking everything personally and standing up at the slightest hint of anything out of line. That would be a very worthwhile question/issue to address. Ultimately, I think that was the underlying question/concern that I had when I posted the series of threads about enabling. At what point is shrugging stuff off enabling? Or something like that. . .more rambling and talking out loud.
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« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2015, 02:21:49 PM »

Anyway, I am in this place where my partner seems to be so focused on himself and his recovery that trying to do any work on the relationship between us seems futile. I am trying to work with what I have  and what I have is a partner that is focusing on his 12 step program and his recovery. I asked him if he had talked to his counselor about me joining in on a session. He hasn't. He has only gone to one counseling appointment all year. He doesn't like counseling and is afraid of it because it reminds him too much of confession. I get that. I am not fond of counseling either. I ditched the 12 step program and found a trauma coach to work with me on my stuff.

My gut tells me he is working on himself... .totally taking this from your posts though.

It is worrisome that he has only been to one counseling.

I've never done a 12 step... .so if limited counseling... .but he is doing 12 step... .I'm thinking he is moving in right direction.

If he is avoiding you... .but claiming to be working on himself... .but not working on himself... .that would be big issue.

How comfortable are you that he is really working on himself?

FF
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« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2015, 02:33:56 PM »

I've never done a 12 step... .so if limited counseling... .but he is doing 12 step... .I'm thinking he is moving in right direction.

I think he is moving in the right direction if it is 3 steps forward, two steps back. He isn't nearly as defensive as he used to be and he has actually been able to hear me say some really hard stuff lately.

Excerpt
If he is avoiding you... .but claiming to be working on himself... .but not working on himself... .that would be big issue.

He isn't avoiding me at all. I am probably avoiding him more than he is avoiding me. He has been trying really hard lately. It is sweet but also sad at the same time because his idea of clean and my idea of clean are so vastly different. So many times, I smile and thank him and hug him while quietly chuckling in my mind. He did the dishes for me for mother's day. The kids went to use some dishes and they were still a bit dirty. I can't be mad at him because he is genuinely trying. He just lacks so many skills and abilities that I take for granted. He grew up very sheltered in a small town. I grew up not being sheltered in a big city.

Excerpt
How comfortable are you that he is really working on himself?

In all honesty, it depends on when you ask me that question. Some days, I am really proud of all of his progress. Other days, I get frustrated because it feels so unbelievably slow. If he isn't going to go to counseling, I would like to see him reading more books to help him (he is a big reader). I would like to see him attend more counseling sessions. And, I hear about all of these guys that do 90 in 90 where they attend 90 12 step meetings in 90 days. I am not looking for him to be that hard core but it would be nice if he would act a bit more committed to his recovery. If I am not careful, I will go back to being irritated with him because I don't feel like he is taking it seriously. For me, I feel like our kids' lives depend on both of us getting healthy. I am seeing the bigger picture.
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