When to shrug it off... and when to stand up for yourself

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So... .beating VOC to the punch with the new topic.


https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=276825.new#new


Above is the source of this discussion.


The basic question... .how do we determine when our partner with BPD traits does something... .and we shrug it off.

And... .when should we stand up for ourselves... .(not shrug it off)

FF

[formflier]

So... .beating VOC to the punch with the new topic.


https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=276825.new#new


Above is the source of this discussion.


The basic question... .how do we determine when our partner with BPD traits does something... .and we shrug it off.

And... .when should we stand up for ourselves... .(not shrug it off)

FF

[vortex of confusion]

 

You beat me to it!

I am not sure that I have any clue. I know that there have been times when I should have shrugged things off but didn't and then there were times that I have shrugged stuff off that should not have been.

Definitely interested in seeing what others have to say.

[Cat Familiar]

I can say from my first marriage that a pattern of consistently "shrugging it off" elicited even more extreme behavior.

With my current marriage, I've made the mistake of criticizing instead of setting boundaries. Now that I know better, I avoid criticizing, but you know pwBPD will often interpret even the most innocent remark as criticism.

[Oooohm]

Depends on how much energy you have to ride the roller coaster... .

No seriously: FF, I think you answered it in your question. When pwBPD "does something" vs. "stand up for ourselves" (added: "or ones we love".

I've always drawn the line at character attacks towards our children. I will "fight" and hard... .basically to the point where I am the one painted black instead of either of our daughters.

Everything else I have learned to let slide... .to a point.

[Ceruleanblue]

I'm a bad example, but for me, I only stand up about the things that are hugely important to me. Even some of those battles, I lose. I lost the one about moving away from my son before he graduated(we'd agreed when we married that BPDh would commute until my son graduated). I guess you have to know what you can and can't live with. If the cost ratio is too high. I'm still debating the cost ratio in choosing to move with BPDh.

The most recent is the motorcycle thing. BPDh wants me to start riding a motorcycle, and while I'd initially agreed, I've now changed my mind. I realized that this will just be another things that is supposed to "make him happy", I'll get no credit, and it won't really make him happy. I've decided this one is worth setting a boundary for. He can ride all he wants on his new bike, but it doesn't mean I have to ride too. He's dangerous enough in a car, and has road rage, so I'm not going to be on the back of his bike either.

To me, it's just easier to give in on most things, but I realize that isn't the best thing either. Something has to be a huge game changer, or a huge risk or loss for me to really take a stand(and deal with the ugly fallout and dysregulation and forever blame)... .

[vortex of confusion]

With my current marriage, I've made the mistake of criticizing instead of setting boundaries. Now that I know better, I avoid criticizing, but you know pwBPD will often interpret even the most innocent remark as criticism.

For some reason, this made me think of the question, "What would a reasonable person do?" In a court of law, when deciding a case, people are often referred to look at how a reasonable person would act in this particular scenario. So, I am thinking that I am trying to figure out what a reasonable person would/should do without thinking about how my partner will or won't act.

In this instance, the question then becomes, "Would a reasonable person shrug this off or would a reasonable person stand up for him/herself?" I wonder if looking at it from that vantage point would be helpful.

[waverider]

When it is destructive, and can lead to something destructive, to yours or that of anyone you are responsible for, emotional or physical well being.

ie what happens if I dont stand up to this, either now or long term? Which includes the danger of setting unhealthy precedents vs creating an unhealthy constant state of conflict.

That is the corner stone for determining our points of principle and boundaries.

Thats the theory anyway, though often it is overriden by pure frustration

[Surg_Bear]

With my current marriage, I've made the mistake of criticizing instead of setting boundaries. Now that I know better, I avoid criticizing, but you know pwBPD will often interpret even the most innocent remark as criticism.

For some reason, this made me think of the question, "What would a reasonable person do?" In a court of law, when deciding a case, people are often referred to look at how a reasonable person would act in this particular scenario. So, I am thinking that I am trying to figure out what a reasonable person would/should do without thinking about how my partner will or won't act.

In this instance, the question then becomes, "Would a reasonable person shrug this off or would a reasonable person stand up for him/herself?" I wonder if looking at it from that vantage point would be helpful.

I cannot use this line of reasoning for my current situation, and I would not ask anyone in a similar situation to so either.  My answer for "what would a reasonable person do?" is ALWAYS:  a reasonable person would never stand for the abuse we tolerate day to day, year after year.  I truly believe that a reasonable person would get out, for remaining in a loving relationship with an adult partner functioning at the emotional level of a three year old is NEVER reasonable.  No self respecting, emotionally mature adult would accept BPD attacks, or abuse, let alone let it slide.

We have to set "reasonable" aside, if we are going to justify staying in a relationship with a partner suffering BPD, let alone trying to decide whether to let an abuse slide, or take a stand.  What we do for our partners is not reasonable.  But then again, LOVE is not reasonable.

If love were reasonable, a person could sit at a desk, do a bunch of calculations, or logic exercises and find that these calculations and exercises of logic have produced love for someone.  This is NOT love, and it is not how love works.  Love is not a conscious decision made after considering all of the variables involved.  Love happens outside of reason.  Love is before reason, in the hierarchy of human mental functions.  The human brain can love years before the capacity for reason has even developed.

"Reasonable" needs to stay far, far away, if we are truly trying to stay within a loving relationship with someone with BPD. 

I need a better guiding principle to justify letting something slide, or taking a stand; than reasonable.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends anyone.

[vortex of confusion]

I cannot use this line of reasoning for my current situation, and I would not ask anyone in a similar situation to so either.  My answer for "what would a reasonable person do?" is ALWAYS:  a reasonable person would never stand for the abuse we tolerate day to day, year after year.  I truly believe that a reasonable person would get out, for remaining in a loving relationship with an adult partner functioning at the emotional level of a three year old is NEVER reasonable.  No self respecting, emotionally mature adult would accept BPD attacks, or abuse, let alone let it slide.

I have not seen anybody on this website advocate letting abuse slide. I have seen people advocate setting boundaries to protect oneself from abuse. I have seen people advocate creating a safety plan, which might include having a quick way to get out in the event of physical danger. There is a lesson about Surviving confrontation and disrespect.

I don't think the topic of this thread was about the behaviors that are blatant abuse. I think a person should do whatever it takes to protect themselves from things that are blatant abuse. There are things that CAN be done to protect oneself while still in the relationship even if that involves some kind of separation, getting the authorities involved, or having an escape plan. My impression is that the topic of this thread was referring to the more mundane stuff. My understanding is that this thread is to help figure out what normal might look like since so many of us have been so desensitized to crappy behavior.

We have to set "reasonable" aside, if we are going to justify staying in a relationship with a partner suffering BPD, let alone trying to decide whether to let an abuse slide, or take a stand.  What we do for our partners is not reasonable.  But then again, LOVE is not reasonable.

There is a difference between love as a feeling and love as an action verb. Love as an action verb is very reasonable in my book because it is something that I choose to DO. For me, it is separate from those gushy feelings of love.

If love were reasonable, a person could sit at a desk, do a bunch of calculations, or logic exercises and find that these calculations and exercises of logic have produced love for someone.  This is NOT love, and it is not how love works.  Love is not a conscious decision made after considering all of the variables involved. 

I have done the calculations. I have done the logic exercises. I have made a conscious decision to stay with my husband. Is love involved? Who knows? Who cares? It is a conscious decision that I have made because I have weighed the pros and cons. I know that finding a way to stay with my husband is what is best for my kids. I know that finding a way to stay with my husband is going to much easier on the finances as well. I am making a very reasonable decision based on the individual factors of my situation.

"Reasonable" needs to stay far, far away, if we are truly trying to stay within a loving relationship with someone with BPD. 

I need a better guiding principle to justify letting something slide, or taking a stand; than reasonable.

I respectfully disagree. I think it is easier for me to stay when I do look at what is considered reasonable. It helps me because I can step out of the BPD world for a minute and say, "Oh hey, I am thoroughly irritated at this situation. That doesn't mean that there is something wrong with me. It means that I am a reasonable human being." For me, it is what comforts me when I am angry or sad or feeling something other than the happy feeling that my husband seems to expect me to feel 24/7.

[formflier]

I'm sorry if my opinion offends anyone.

No offense taken... .your point of view is valid.  I have a different one.

I'm one of those logical guys... .trying to be more sensitive... .

The logical... .reasonable part of me says that I am on the right path.  even though there are still triggering moments... .and I despair.  I can't argue or dispute the facts... .there is less fighting... .less drama... .and our r/s is closer to a "normal" r/s than it has been in many years.

That makes me think it is reasonable to think... .things will continue to get better... .that gives me hope.

it's also logical and reasonable to understand that there is a "order to the disorder"... .there are "rules" that generally govern pwBPD traits... .  Granted... .they are very different than what we are used to... .but if we learn them... .we can affect the r/s in a positive way making emotionally healthy decisions.

So... .I'm arguing that while BPD is an "emotional disorder" (my words... .) that applying logic and reason to it after learning about the "order to the disorder" is the best way to go.

FF