S9 lots of quarrel and frustrations

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My S9 is becoming rather difficult lately. He become quite disrespectful of my authority. We run into unnecessary conflict at the time and it is taking a toll. This is yet another afternoon when things just don't work out.

I am supposed to bring him to barbershop after school. He finally agreed, after a lot of persuasion from mom, to get the much needed hair cut. We were on our way from the school. He suddenly decided he will go to ice cream shop first thing and then the barbershop.

The ice cream treat should be a reward to the kids on my discretion. But he is making this like something I have to do. I told him we can go to ice cream after we get the hair cut. It will be a good way to celebrate. He got upset and talk in a commanding manner, finger pointing at me, and said "I A-M N-O-T GO-ING TO H-AIR CUT UN-TIL WE HA-VE ICE-CREAM". I don't feel like there is much room for reasoning. After I restated my request, we simply went home without going to ice-cream nor barbershop.

At home we run into the second conflict. We often have a lot of friction when I try to supervise his homework. Today is another such day.

Me: I want to see the homework items check list (the school issues this daily for the student and parent to keep track)

Son: I am working on my homework (i.e. I'm not available to show you the check list)

Me: I want to see the check list the first thing. (This is our routine. Had we check at the end, we often find he miss doing some items in the last minute).

Son: If you want to see it go get it yourself.

Me: This is your homework. We are working together on this. I need your cooperation.

Son: I am doing my homework. You said you want me to do the homework and that's what I am doing.

(broken record between us).

Me: Since you are not doing what I ask you to do, you will not have TV and video game time after your homework.

Now that issue #2 has come to dead end. I return to issue #1 about barber.

Me: I want you to know ma and dad make the call whether you can go to ice-cream shop.

I am about to continue my lecture. At this moment he howls, raises the two hands and face toward the ceiling, saying he doesn't want any of this discussion. He picked up his homework and ran into his room and slammed the door. He threatened me not to have anymore discussion.

Five minutes later he finished the homework and put it in front of me to check. We return to relative claim.

Fifteen minutes later he asked for TV. I repeated that because he did not do what I have asked him, therefore he cannot watch TV. He finally bring me the check list to verify. Things are resolved relative calmly. But usually there are perhaps just 50/50 chance that we come to some resolution.

He can get very repulse at me asking him to do things. If he has self-discipline i will be overjoy because my supervision is not necessary. But his daily habit tells me otherwise. I am rather worry that he is not able to delay gratification for diligent work. The ice-cream v.s. hair cut squabble is one such example.

I feel I am hitting a wall all the time. His regular outburst make it so difficult for me to work with him. I also worry what impact we will have to his younger brother, who at 4, is still a very sweet boy.

[half-life]

My S9 is becoming rather difficult lately. He become quite disrespectful of my authority. We run into unnecessary conflict at the time and it is taking a toll. This is yet another afternoon when things just don't work out.

I am supposed to bring him to barbershop after school. He finally agreed, after a lot of persuasion from mom, to get the much needed hair cut. We were on our way from the school. He suddenly decided he will go to ice cream shop first thing and then the barbershop.

The ice cream treat should be a reward to the kids on my discretion. But he is making this like something I have to do. I told him we can go to ice cream after we get the hair cut. It will be a good way to celebrate. He got upset and talk in a commanding manner, finger pointing at me, and said "I A-M N-O-T GO-ING TO H-AIR CUT UN-TIL WE HA-VE ICE-CREAM". I don't feel like there is much room for reasoning. After I restated my request, we simply went home without going to ice-cream nor barbershop.

At home we run into the second conflict. We often have a lot of friction when I try to supervise his homework. Today is another such day.

Me: I want to see the homework items check list (the school issues this daily for the student and parent to keep track)

Son: I am working on my homework (i.e. I'm not available to show you the check list)

Me: I want to see the check list the first thing. (This is our routine. Had we check at the end, we often find he miss doing some items in the last minute).

Son: If you want to see it go get it yourself.

Me: This is your homework. We are working together on this. I need your cooperation.

Son: I am doing my homework. You said you want me to do the homework and that's what I am doing.

(broken record between us).

Me: Since you are not doing what I ask you to do, you will not have TV and video game time after your homework.

Now that issue #2 has come to dead end. I return to issue #1 about barber.

Me: I want you to know ma and dad make the call whether you can go to ice-cream shop.

I am about to continue my lecture. At this moment he howls, raises the two hands and face toward the ceiling, saying he doesn't want any of this discussion. He picked up his homework and ran into his room and slammed the door. He threatened me not to have anymore discussion.

Five minutes later he finished the homework and put it in front of me to check. We return to relative claim.

Fifteen minutes later he asked for TV. I repeated that because he did not do what I have asked him, therefore he cannot watch TV. He finally bring me the check list to verify. Things are resolved relative calmly. But usually there are perhaps just 50/50 chance that we come to some resolution.

He can get very repulse at me asking him to do things. If he has self-discipline i will be overjoy because my supervision is not necessary. But his daily habit tells me otherwise. I am rather worry that he is not able to delay gratification for diligent work. The ice-cream v.s. hair cut squabble is one such example.

I feel I am hitting a wall all the time. His regular outburst make it so difficult for me to work with him. I also worry what impact we will have to his younger brother, who at 4, is still a very sweet boy.

[scraps66]

I have this same scenario, S10 with defiance and the outfall to his younger S7. 

As hard as it might be, you have to enforce the parental boundaries.  When you say something needs to be done, it needs to be done.  This can sometimes become a war of wills so picking your battles needs to be a consideration. But it gets exhausting when everything is a struggle, haircut, what clothes to wear, what's for breakfast, wear a jacket to school, do your homework, did you have homework?, off the PlayStation, no Minecraft. All struggles in my house.

[half-life]

So we finally make it to the ice cream shop. Fight broke out almost from the start. Both kids were fighting for one stool. Each sitting on half and try to push the other out. I tried to be a referee and finally persuade the older one to move to another seat. The little one followed him to the new seat and repeat the fight there. Ice cream was got on his shirt and they were bumping into the merchant's not so stable candy dispenser. The owner was not pleased.

I took his ice cream from his hand and took everyone outside. I held up the ice cream and ask the little one to promise to behave or he will not have ice cream. He only point to my hand and kept asking he wants the ice cream and do not acknowledge my request. At the end we all went home and he did not get his ice cream back.

Episode 1 has ended. Episode 2 was worst. On our way home, S9 fell off from bicycle just a few doors from our home on the side walk. It was at low speed and it should not hurt all that much. But he was rather upset. He kicked the bicycle, then walk away abandoning it on the street. The little one picked it up and walk it home. At our door step he throw the helmet to the side walk saying he don't want to ride bike anymore (he asked to ride when we head out). Again our innocent little one picked it up and hanged it on his brother's bike.

I talked to S4 about the ice cream episode. He was able to recount everything, understand the reason he did not have ice cream is because he has misbehaved. And finally he gave me the promise me I have asked for that he will behave better. Looking back when we were on the street, had I return the ice cream to him and then ask he if he will behave, perhaps he will claim down and able to acknowledge me.

One hour later everybody is claim. I pull S9 over to talk. First I recounted episode 1. I was hoping he would understand how difficult and embarrassing it was to me and that we should all act like one team. It doesn't seem he really empathize with me.

Then I move on the hard stuff about his episode 2. I was trying to use the validation suggestion by first asking how he was feeling at the time of the accident. I get no answer. After making several try, he said he does not like to talk and he just wanted to be left alone.

Another day another struggle. Things just seems so fragile it seems there is always some conflict awaiting.

[livednlearned]

Hi half-life,

It sounds like your oldest son is undergoing parental alienation tactics. One of the signs is when a child begins to do role reversals (ordering you around, calling the shots) where he acts like your parent. If he is still very attached to his mom, there is a complex psychology going on -- even though she is unstable and abusive, he is compelled to bond to her and she may create enough of a threatening environment that he'll do anything to try and maintain that bond. Including siding with her against you.

Have you read any of the material here about parental alienation? It's under Lesson 6 to the right in the side bar --------> https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331467#msg1331467

There are really good tips and techniques outlined by Richard Warshak in his book Divorce Poison, and a few other books, like Coparenting with a Toxic Ex.

Validation is something you have to do very consistently, and often, and it takes practice. It's most effective when it becomes second nature, and that began to happen for me when I started using it with all of my significant relationships. You have good boundaries and are consistent,   and while validation may not work like you expect it to each time, it will begin to fill the cup. Unfortunately, other techniques have to be used as well when the kids begin to experience alienation. Validation will not be enough.

[Thunderstruck]

My SD10 went through an "acting out" period last year too. She was acting out in class and when she was with DH and I. It was very hard, and I'm glad she's over that phase. At the time there was a lot of conflict that her uBPDbm was creating (false accusations to DCF and false accusations of DV). SD10 couldn't handle the stress so she acted out.

You're doing the right thing by being consistent. S9 might not like it, but there are consequences to his actions. We handled SD10's conflict by sending her to her room (which would cause an emotional meltdown). When she calmed down she was allowed to come out, then we would have a talk with her about her behavior. We would always stress that it was HER behavior that landed her in trouble, and that she's the only one that could control her behavior. Sometimes she gets it, sometimes she doesn't. Lately when she has meltdowns, after she calms down she will voluntarily come out and acknowledge her behavior and apologize for it.

I read somewhere that kids act out with the parent that they feel a better bond with, so that should reassure you a bit. I think their bond with the BPD parent is so tenuous that they try to do whatever they can to appease them. Then when they have stress or unhappy feelings, it all comes out with the non parent because they know the non parent is unconditional and will always be there for them.

[betteroffalone]

Sorry to be behind one this post, but I just joined the board. Your example could have happened here with my S9. His Dad moved far away, so we don't have the back and forth. He also doesn't have his dad to support him when he doesn't get his way. This means he is only angry at me, because the lack of contact with dad makes him more like an extended family member.

So the last couple of weeks I have been trying some ideas from reading about oppositional defiant disorder. Mostly I tell him something twice. The second time, I say "This is the second time I asked you to... .If I have to ask a third time there will be a consequence." So far it has been working pretty well. He hasn't tried role reversal as much, and his tone has frequently been more pleasant. I feel that some of his behaviors are influenced by his dad's all-or-nothing thinking and also that he would undermine my parenting by telling us to stop arguing so there would be peace in the house.

I also talk ahead of time about things that are to happen after school or the next day. This way he is often more accepting of appointments and other commitments once I remind him that we had already talked about it. Showers are a constant opportunity for him to gain control.  If it doesn't get done on the designated days, he will want to argue it's not a shower day. In addition to prepping him in the morning or the day before, I have improved this one by giving him two options. Before or after dessert for example. It also has helped that his college age brother is home for the summer.

Hope this is helpful to you.