Improving a Relationship with a Borderline Partner. Is this even possible?

[Cole]

I filled out the survey posted by Skip and it really got me thinking. Why am I staying?  I planned on filing for divorce week of June 1st if things did not improve, and they have not. In fact, they seem to be getting worse, no matter what I do. 

I am a hard working, honest, moral, and ethical man who does his best to take care of his wife, children, mother, and extended family. I am very fortunate to have a good job that pays well and spend my money on my wife and kids first, often going without things I need for their sake. 

Even though my wife has cheated on me in the past and has withheld sex for almost a year now, I have never cheated on her despite many opportunities. Came close a few months ago, but resisted the urge even though there was virtually no chance she would have ever found out. I would have known, and I just cannot rationalize that it is OK since she treats me the way she does. 

So why am I depressed and feel like a loser? Because I am married to a pwBPD who makes me feel like that way. She sabotages the relationship by intentionally doing the things she knows are driving me away, them blames me and tells me it is my fault she does them.

Is the title of this board a fantasy? Is there any such thing as improving a relationship with a boarderline partner? Seem impossible at this point.     

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ceruleanblue]

Welcome!

I like to think it is possible. I've read many a story on here of people who do manage to make it work, and get to a good place. It takes lots of effort and learning on the part of the non. I often wonder if getting to a good place happens more often when the pwBPD seeks help, and I suspect that is true. My marriage has vastly improved lately(other than one issue), and I know it's in large part because BPDh's meds seem to be working, or perhaps it's his DBT therapy. I can't take the credit because I've been trying to use the tools all along. So, the change has come recently from him.

I know there are plenty of nons on  here though that report a lot of improvement just from working the lessons and tools. What tools have you found to be at all helpful, in any? Sometimes you have to tweak them to work for you. When I do S.E.T, I tend to leave off the "T" because it tends to sometimes be a trigger.

Just know it's hard, and all we can do as nons is do our best. It's just tough because so much of the effort is on us.

[Notwendy]

Cole, I give you a lot of credit for not cheating. In the end, you have to live with yourself. IMHO, getting more drama or someone else into a struggling relationship is both self destructive and destructive to the relationship. It would also bring temporary euphoria and prevent us looking at our own issues- and it is this part- looking at our own issues that is the best hope for improvement in any relationship.

I think everyone here will have to weight the pros and cons of our choices, and what we consider to be an acceptable relationship. I wouldn't want to lead someone to believe there is a pot of gold at every relationship rainbow, or a possibly happy solution to everyone. Also, what works for some isn't acceptable to others.

This is my own personal thoughts on divorce, and it was echoed by my T. If we don't get our own emotional stuff together, and split, we may repeat the same pattern in the next relationship. I have seen people jump out of one marriage pan into the other pan, and also people split from genuinely bad marriages and move on to healthy ones. I have also known of people who turned their relationships for the better. Our T encouraged us to examine ourselves first, and become less negatively reactive to each other.

It's your call, no matter what anyone else says or does. You know yourself and your marriage. I think the staying board is for those who choose to stay and work on it, but nothing- staying or leaving- comes with a guarantee of things being better ( or worse) . The tools are excellent resources for working to make things better. Probably all relationships have ups and downs. We do what we each think is best for our particular circumstances.

[Cole]

Cole, I give you a lot of credit for not cheating. In the end, you have to live with yourself. 

It is a sad state of affairs when you and I seem to be in the minority. I have had very blatant "offers" from women who know I am married and have children. Glad to be in the same camp as you.   

This is my own personal thoughts on divorce, and it was echoed by my T. If we don't get our own emotional stuff together, and split, we may repeat the same pattern in the next relationship. I have seen people jump out of one marriage pan into the other, and also people split from genuinely bad marriages and move on to healthy ones. Our T encouraged us to examine ourselves first, and become less negatively reactive to each other.

Notwendy, I am sure you have seen some of my post in the past and are a little familiar with where I am now. Agree that jumping into another relationship is not the way to go. I would rather be lonely by myself than be lonely and depressed staying in the relationship as it is. She is in therapy and sticking with it for the first time, but she is just getting worse. Really tired of hearing about things I did to hurt her- some real for which I have apologized over and over and many imagined which I cannot fix because they did not happen to begin with.

I am tired and worn out. Cannot picture doing this any more. The time to change boards is fast approaching.  

[vortex of confusion]

I am very fortunate to have a good job that pays well and spend my money on my wife and kids first, often going without things I need for their sake.

This stood out to me. It comes across as a bit of martyrdom. When is the last time you did something for you? Things aren't likely to get better when you continually deprive yourself for their sake. That is a perfect set up for resentment.

So why am I depressed and feel like a loser? Because I am married to a pwBPD who makes me feel like that way. She sabotages the relationship by intentionally doing the things she knows are driving me away, them blames me and tells me it is my fault she does them.

Take a step back. I can sense a lot of pain in your post. I have been there. I know what that pain is like. Is there any way that you reframe some of your thinking? It sounds like you see her as the enemy that is sabotaging things. Whenever a relationship is set up with a you vs. me attitude, it is going to be very difficult to make any kind of progress. What might help you to feel like you and your partner are on the same team? How do you know that she sabatoges the relationship  intentionally? I don't know if this is right or wrong but I prefer to think of my husband as captain clueless. He does things that I don't like but not because he is trying to drive me away but because he is that self centered. I am of the opinion that, if he truly knew and understood those things, he wouldn't do it. He continues to be captain clueless because he just doesn't get it.

Is the title of this board a fantasy? Is there any such thing as improving a relationship with a boarderline partner? Seem impossible at this point.     

I don't know but your post reminded me of something my dad said one time. I went to him and was boohooing about my husband, who reminds me a lot of my mom at times. My dad gave me the money to take a vacation. He also said something that I wasn't sure what to think about at the time. It was something along the lines of, "Sometimes, you just need to get away. Heck, go do something really stupid to knock yourself down a peg." It is way too easy to become too self righteous when constantly making sacrifices and trying to do everything right. Sometimes, it helps to go have some fun and make a bad decision or two.

[Notwendy]

Cole, you do what you need to do.

I think the issue on advising others on this board to stay or leave is about people making their own choices without influence from other posters. People come here in so much emotional pain, but we have to respect their boundaries.

One thing I might ask about is if the "getting worse" with T is a typical pattern of feeling worse before better,  I don't know if your wife is working though difficult stuff and it is all coming up to the surface for her.

It really bothers my H when I bring up old stuff, but sometimes it is about revisiting the feelings and bringing closure. But it is most effective when we can do it in T so it doesn't get out of hand with being triggering. Sometimes my T will get on my case with bringing up the past, but sometimes I am reframing, it- like once it is out, it is more over than not doing this. In a way, my H hates this, but I wish he'd do some of it as he tends to suppress his anger at me, then it erupts. But we are different people.

It helps me to keep a boundary to bring up the tough stuff in therapy as that keeps it from getting out of hand at home.

Or, Cole, you could very well be at the end of your rope with this... .

It is up to you, really. I don't live with your wife! so there is no way I would be able to advise on such a decision.

[Cole]

Take a step back. I can sense a lot of pain in your post. I have been there. I know what that pain is like. Is there any way that you reframe some of your thinking? It sounds like you see her as the enemy that is sabotaging things. Whenever a relationship is set up with a you vs. me attitude, it is going to be very difficult to make any kind of progress. What might help you to feel like you and your partner are on the same team? How do you know that she sabatoges the relationship  intentionally? I don't know if this is right or wrong but I prefer to think of my husband as captain clueless. He does things that I don't like but not because he is trying to drive me away but because he is that self centered. I am of the opinion that, if he truly knew and understood those things, he wouldn't do it. He continues to be captain clueless because he just doesn't get it.

The sabotage is yet another emotional affair. She talks to, texts, and emails a guy she went to high school with multiple times a day. She claims there is nothing going on, but this weekend she is out of town visiting her parents (5 of last 6 weekends away) where he conveniently lives. She says it is not an affair because she is not sleeping with him. Whether she is or not is a mute point at this time. I told her it has to stop, and she said she does not plan to because there is nothing wrong as long as it is not physical. This is emotional affair #3, and adding in the full-blown one from 2007 makes 4 total.  

This is a deal breaker. Can't continue to live with this. Know I should have mentioned it earlier. But I just cannot face it any more.

[Notwendy]

Cole you have the right to have boundaries and to enforce them. You mentioned that she knows the marriage is on the line ( has agreed to therapy ). However an emotional affair is not working at the marriage and you have let her know this is a boundary for you.

I would also be bothered by an emotional affair. I don't have an issue with keeping up with old friends. I do that,  but frequent texting/messaging and visiting is over the top for me too. I hope other posters can add some wisdom to this. This would not work in my marriage for either me or my H.

[Cole]

Cole you have the right to have boundaries and to enforce them. You mentioned that she knows the marriage is on the line ( has agreed to therapy ). However an emotional affair is not working at the marriage and you have let her know this is a boundary for you.

I would also be bothered by an emotional affair. I don't have an issue with keeping up with old friends. I do that,  but frequent texting/messaging and visiting is over the top for me too. I hope other posters can add some wisdom to this. This would not work in my marriage for either me or my H.

I did not know it when I married her, but she has since told me that this behavior has ruined every relationship she has ever been in. She is extremely guilty over the affair in 2007 and cries about it often. Yet, she walks right up to the edge of the cliff over and over, rationalizing that as long as she is not sleeping with a guy, it is not an affair. She tells me she is seeing her therapist because she wants to stop, then tells me there is nothing wrong with what she is doing. Which way is it? If she does not think it is wrong, she is not going to stop.

I just know I set a boundary that is still being violated and a date I plan to exit this marriage, which is 2 weeks away. I cannot back down this time or it will just continue. I deserve better.     

[Love Is Not Enough]

I'm sorry to hear about the emotional affair. Physical or not, it still shouldn't be happening.

I set a firm boundary about physical and verbal abuse and said I would leave if it happened again. I was already gone at the time I set it and that was enough to motivate change in my SO for me to come back. I committed myself to that boundary and I accepted that the RS would end if it happened again. I work hard to work the tools and do my best not to escalate the situation. I can also see she does her best to deescalate her emotions. Things have improved greatly. I am not sure how much of it has been a result of changes in me or her seeking to change herself. It can be done though.

Set a boundary about the affair and leave if she does not respect it. Maybe consider it a therapeutic separation and not ending the the RS. Give the both of you some space and show her that you are serious. You have to be confident about your decision though and accept up front that it could end the RS. Going into it with the mindset that you are doing this to try and save the RS and not end it would be a more helpful attitude to have.

You are still affected a lot by how she treats you. Have you worked on detachment? I have found that very helpful to our RS. I do not let what she says upset me and it stops the downward spiral of emotions for both of us. Especially if it is not something that is my fault. I use SET then drop it. Then I give her some space to work through whatever it is that is bothering her. It's not easy, but it does help. It took me a long time to control my own reactions and anxiety, but I just keep telling myself not to take it personally. It comes down to confidence. You have to be confident using the tools and confident that you are not the reason for all of her woes. And you're not. I promise!

I am in the same boat as you. I wanted to work things out to keep our family together. Especially for the kids.

What do you think about setting a boundary and taking a therapeutic separation if it is broken?

[vortex of confusion]

The sabotage is yet another emotional affair. She talks to, texts, and emails a guy she went to high school with multiple times a day. She claims there is nothing going on, but this weekend she is out of town visiting her parents (5 of last 6 weekends away) where he conveniently lives. She says it is not an affair because she is not sleeping with him. Whether she is or not is a mute point at this time. I told her it has to stop, and she said she does not plan to because there is nothing wrong as long as it is not physical. This is emotional affair #3, and adding in the full-blown one from 2007 makes 4 total.  

This is a deal breaker. Can't continue to live with this. Know I should have mentioned it earlier. But I just cannot face it any more.

That adds a lot more context. Her behavior is complete BS. It reminds me so much of my situation early in the marriage when my husband chose to look at porn, ignore me, and take care of himself. I was some how supposed to be okay with it because he wasn't sleeping with other women and he was doing it all at home.

This is a situation where the only thing to do is set boundaries and stick to them. An emotional affair is still infidelity in my book. Her behavior sounds a lot like sex and/or love addiction. I know that I am projecting my own stuff here but it might be something worth looking into to help you heal. The trauma of being cheated on is very painful. No amount of her saying, "But I didn't sleep with him." is going to take away your pain.

 

[Cole]

Set a boundary about the affair and leave if she does not respect it. Maybe consider it a therapeutic separation and not ending the the RS. Give the both of you some space and show her that you are serious. You have to be confident about your decision though and accept up front that it could end the RS. Going into it with the mindset that you are doing this to try and save the RS and not end it would be a more helpful attitude to have.

That is what I am doing. I made it very clear that I am leaving this marriage if she does not stop. One day she says what she is doing is OK because sex is not involved. The next day she says she knows it is wrong and wants to stop, and the next day she says the affairs are the symptom, not the problem, and tries to blame it all on me. I suppose all the relationships she ruined with this behavior prior to us meeting are my fault, too.  

That adds a lot more context. Her behavior is complete BS. It reminds me so much of my situation early in the marriage when my husband chose to look at porn, ignore me, and take care of himself. I was some how supposed to be okay with it because he wasn't sleeping with other women and he was doing it all at home.

It is amazing how they can rationalize it. "As long as I am not sleeping with someone else, there is nothing wrong with what I am doing."  Yep... .BS.

This is a situation where the only thing to do is set boundaries and stick to them. An emotional affair is still infidelity in my book. Her behavior sounds a lot like sex and/or love addiction. I know that I am projecting my own stuff here but it might be something worth looking into to help you heal. The trauma of being cheated on is very painful. No amount of her saying, "But I didn't sleep with him." is going to take away your pain.

And that is where I am. I set a boundary which she told me flat out she plans to continue to violate. And as long as she can rationalize in her mind that it is not an affair or that she is justified because I did something that made her mad a decade ago, she will not stop.

Love addict? Heck yes. If I had known, I probably would not have married her. Her romantic expectations and the amount of attention she wants is more than any man can give.   

She has this fantasy: After we divorce, she will come visit and stay the night, we will be good friends and do things together with the kids, and I will take care of her financially. The truth of it is I do not plan to have any contact with her save that needed to co-parent our kids. I cannot heal from this relationship or move on with my life if I still have one foot in it.

It make take the reality check my attorney has planned to pull her out of la-la-fantasy-land and into reality.