Is he throwing eight years out the window?

[nomoremommyfood]

Whoa, I could've sworn I've read everything on these boards, but I feel like it's finally becoming a little more clear!

I've been going through the Lessons and certain things stood out to me. In particular, a remark about object constancy perhaps referring to not just an "out of sight, out of mind" mentality, but an inability to see the person in context of their entire history, together. Like, when he's screaming that we need to break up because we can't get along for a single day without fighting, yet we've actually been getting along for the past few months.

D.E.A.R.M.A.N is something I've always wanted to use, but can never remember. If I talk to him again, I want to ask him to stop using threats to break-up as an answer to everything (ex: I'm upset that he didn't invite me to an art opening turns into "well, if I didn't invite you, it's because we're clearly not compatible and should break up" or "if you walk away [from the fight], I'll break up with you.". It's gotten totally out of control and this might be a good way to discuss it - or maybe too advanced, for now?

I'm familiar with S.E.T and try to practice it; it's gets tough to translate it into my own vernacular and not sound like a textbook. If we do speak, what approach should I take?

The lessons kind of make me nervous because of the emphasis on needing to be stable and mentally in-control. I'm ashamed to admit that this particular fight involved me threatening to jump off the fire escape or swallow all the pills in the house, then cutting my arm with a scalpel. It was a low-point and I was totally out of control. He left saying "maybe we can talk when you're stable." I don't want him to see me as mentally unstable but this continued silence is grinding me down and I worry that - if I ever talk to him - I'll be so depressed at that point, he'll totally reject me. I did stop my substance binge two days ago and can anticipate at least a few days for dopamine levels to get back to normal. I'm also dead-set on actually doing my laundry, taking out the trash, and grocery shopping tomorrow. It's been raining all day and this week has been a nightmare, even without the fight. I'm going thrifting with my friend on Monday and "treated myself" to frozen yogurt. Baby steps?

I spoke with his friend earlier today and, apparently, he's very close to calling me; supposedly "hovering over the phone"... .but it didn't happen. I'm giving it 48 hours. I started making a list of items to discuss with him, or even a letter apologizing for my role in the fight, but also acknowledging that we both need to work on staying calm and not getting triggered. I assume the best response is to sound as level-headed as possible, whether he calls me or I break down and call him.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[an0ught]

Hi nomoremommyfood,

forget for the time being about DEARMAN. It can be a bit complex. Maybe not totally forget it - remember: All patterns start with listening. Standing by your point/assertiveness is good. Flexibility is good too. Nail down agreement in the end.

When learning patterns it pays to focus. Focusing on validation is a good first step. Once you are able to validate negative emotions you are ready to move on. Then focusing on SET is a good second step - the additional required learning is loosing fear to bring facts and separating facts from own interests and other emotions. When you got a firm grip on SET then it is worth getting started on assertiveness. By that time you should have however a good grip on boundaries otherwise naive implementation of assertiveness by someone who does not feel secure is easily becoming aggression.

I'm familiar with S.E.T and try to practice it; it's gets tough to translate it into my own vernacular and not sound like a textbook. If we do speak, what approach should I take?

Getting the "S" right is a bit tough in an intimate relationship. I sometimes think the S is more useful in a relationship with more distance like a T-patient or boss-subordinate relationship. Don't worry about the S too much. Look at it as sET. The E and T are the key bits while S simply gets you the permission to speak which you may have gotten through other means already.

[Jessica84]

That's great advice, An0ught. Mine usually looks like SEEEET. He seems to thrive on the empathy, and can handle the T better with enough E... .though I try not to make the T sting too much. And when possible, validation thru normalizing - when anyone in the same situation would feel the same way. Often my uBPDbf gets upset when anyone would (stuck in traffic, long lines, bad day at work, etc.) He may overreact, but his initial reaction is normal. So showing empathy by normalizing has the potential to bring him back down or at least keep him from spiraling. The key is validating their feelings. Normalize where you can.

Glad to see you are slowly pulling yourself out of this - doing laundry, paying bills, meeting up with friends. Baby steps will do fine.  One day at a time. If he's hovering over the phone, maybe he'll actually dial your number soon.

[formflier]

  I'm ashamed to admit that this particular fight involved me threatening to jump off the fire escape or swallow all the pills in the house, then cutting my arm with a scalpel. It was a low-point and I was totally out of control. He left saying "maybe we can talk when you're stable." I don't want him to see me as mentally unstable but this continued silence is grinding me down and I worry that - if I ever talk to him - I'll be so depressed at that point, he'll totally reject me.

One thing that you will see on these boards often... .is help yourself first... .then others.

Put on your own oxygen mask first... .and then help someone else put theirs on (there is a real reason you hear this on airliners!)

Anyway... .don't hand him power.  If his calling... .or not calling has the power to destabilize you... .he is in control (and may not know it)... .not you.  Not a good situation.

Can you talk to us about your support network... .(drs, therapists... .friends... .etc etc).  How do you take care of you?

FF

[nomoremommyfood]

Still nothing.

My intermediary got him to promise he's contact me on Sunday - he agreed to a text. Never sent it.

On the bright side, he was able to get a hold of my bf Monday. Apparently, he woke up in a terrible mood and will be calling me thing week (supposedly).

Can you talk to us about your support network... .(drs, therapists... .friends... .etc etc).  How do you take care of you?

This is part of the problem. I am admittedly the worst about self-care. It generally involves consuming any substance in sight, then frantically calling anyone willing to listen. Thankfully, I dropped the drug use almost a week ago; it has the tendency to make me a lot more depressed, in the end.

I talk to a therapist weekly, which is great, and see my doctor, tomorrow - I wish I could see my doctor more but I maybe see him once a month due to his schedule. I'm asking him about increasing medication; not necessarily to cope with this particular issue, but because I'm worried about the stress setting off bipolar depression. My friends are... .not too helpful. They mainly see him as abusive and just tell me to get rid of him. Which I understand but, in a relationship this long, it's easier said than done. And, at some point, they just get exhausted; what's the point in consoling someone when they just end up staying in the relationship, anyway? I've pretty much burned out all my friends on the topic, which I understand. On the other side, I'm not really the type to gush about my boyfriend 24/7. They mainly only hear about him when I'm complaining, which doesn't paint an accurate picture. I think this is pretty normal, though. I have a good friend who's been with her boyfriend 15 years and she sort of does the same thing. He'll come up in casual conversation (i.e. "back when "Jake" was playing guitar, we'd hang out at that bar all the time" but mainly discusses him when they're fighting.

After talking to my friends, I was ready to totally drop the relationship, told my bf's friend I had one foot out the door, and that any reasonable person would assume they were being dumped in the worse possible way. His response: "But your BF is not a reasonable person and you don't have a normal relationship." Which is kinda true.

Anyway... .don't hand him power.  If his calling... .or not calling has the power to destabilize you... .he is in control (and may not know it)... .not you.  Not a good situation.

Luckily, I think I'm a lot calmer now after getting some response from him, even if it was through in intermediary. However, I'm very worried about how to approach him when/if he does call. I'm almost positive he'll come back swinging and go right back to "you're dumped" (which is how he automatically gets his way). I do think it's a good idea to limit conversations to short intervals for the time being and not to discuss ending the break-up threats at this exact moment. I almost wish I could have someone in the room with me, at the time - he knows he can get away with a lot worse when we're alone than if someone when a third party is around to call him out on bad behavior and bring him back to reality.

However, what would be a good way to respond if he comes right back at me with "we're breaking up"? I don't want to beg and sound pathetic, but I also don't think I want to break-up. I want to try to stay calm in any instance - would parlaying the discussion help? Should I apologize for my role in the argument and see how he responds, then agree to talk another day. I'm a little worried about the object constancy thing, too. When he doesn't see me, I remain the evil villain out to destroy him. I want to do everything possible to get out of that position.

Sorry for the 8 million questions and thanks for all your help!

[formflier]

 

I think you get the basic issue you are facing.

You are letting his action... .or inaction... .dictate your moods and actions.

Is this something you are actively working on... .with your T?

Do I have this right?

FF

[nomoremommyfood]

I think you get the basic issue you are facing.

You are letting his action... .or inaction... .dictate your moods and actions.

Is this something you are actively working on... .with your T?

Do I have this right?

FF

I think that's about right, but I'm not sure how much of it is "letting" him dictate my moods. I want to be able to shrug it off but I'm just not able to do it, so I get obsessed, anxious, and eventually depressed, no matter how much I try to avoid it. This is when we're in fights, only. When we're getting along okay, I can go days or even weeks without thinking about him. When his behavior isn't extreme, I'm usually wrapped up in something else. But I think anyone who was in the position of losing such a long term relationship in such a sudden, brutal way would be a total mess.

I wouldn't say I'm actively working on it with a therapist (I attend weekly), because of the long periods where everything is normal and other issues are taking priority. About every two years, something like this will happen and it destroys me. Lately, it's been more about the agony of being caught between "is this a fight?" or "are we broken up" and just figuring out what to do if and when I get back in contact with him. I think it probably would be valuable to talk about how badly he impacts my mental health in the long run but, right now, the immediacy is prevailing.

I'm giving him until Saturday. I'm still blocked on Facebook but I'm able to see his account and it's such a dig when all his newly added friends are hot girls. A few days ago, he was "too grouchy" to call me - apparently not too grouchy to scope out other women. The worst part - one of them looks exactly like me. I really want to puke.

[nomoremommyfood]

Oh yeah - I'm not sure if this is something to get this worked up about but:

I used to meet with a few friends once a week to exercise together, and we often text. I usually don't drink or eat fast food and someone joked that I'd eaten Chipotle and white wine in the same week. I said I was depressed, she responded, "It's normal to indulge a little when you're going through a breakup".

My stomach hit the floor. I mentioned he was supposed to call me this week, but am now insanely worried that it's completely obvious to outside parties that I've been dumped and I'm so blind I haven't figured that out, yet. Am I just totally oblivious?

This combined with seeing him befriend my Facebook doppelganger - and still not calling... .or even unblocking me - is panic-inducing. If I hadn't promised his friend I'd keep waiting, I'd be calling him, right now.

If I haven't heard from him by Saturday, I'm calling him. And will publicly announce exactly how he dumped me after over 8 years. I know he'll tell everyone how much I chased him and "wouldn't let him go" and, if this is really happening, I'll need to clear my name.

This really sucks. I actually got work done, today. Now, my heart is racing.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi nomoremommyfood,

I am sorry that you are going through this.    I have gone through the uncertain of where my relationship stands. I understand how the uncertain can give you anxiety.   

I used to meet with a few friends once a week to exercise together, and we often text. I usually don't drink or eat fast food and someone joked that I'd eaten Chipotle and white wine in the same week. I said I was depressed, she responded, "It's normal to indulge a little when you're going through a breakup".

Most people who are not in a relationship or never have been in a relationship with a pwBPD just don't understand the ambivalence and how relationships can be. It seems like your friend was trying to be supportive.

My stomach hit the floor. I mentioned he was supposed to call me this week, but am now insanely worried that it's completely obvious to outside parties that I've been dumped and I'm so blind I haven't figured that out, yet. Am I just totally oblivious?

As you mentioned before and even his friend said, your relationship is not normal.  When you are comparing your relationship to a "normal" relationship it is going to add to more anxiety. 

Try not to let your emotions or feelings of panic overwhelm you. You have been with your bf for a very long time and are familiar with his behavior. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe he has done this before. Balance the logic and rationality with your emotions and focus on that.

When you are getting racing thoughts or feeling panic, try closing your eyes and take deep breaths in and out. Keep focusing on your breath, inhaling and exhaling. Think of something relaxing or peaceful. Imagine what you see, smell, hear, feel, etc. When you are ready and feeling relaxed open your eyes.

Remember it is not the end of the week yet, there is still time for him to call. Try to keep relaxed and do relaxing things.

[Jaded11]

Dear nomoremommyfood,

all I can say is that I completely understand where you are. I'm at the exact same situation and I don't know how to deal with this.

What I keep asking myself (what my friends do too), is "do I deserve to be going through this"?

Although I know the answer is no, it hurts like hell. For me the splitting part is the worst. I keep wondering, how is it possible he can just throw it all out of the window?  And how can he turn me into this ungrateful, rejecting b___ that doesn't care about him at all, when all I've done is care and be there for him?

I wish you strength... .and courage. What's for sure, you deserve better than this behaviour. We all do. 

[nomoremommyfood]

Most people who are not in a relationship or never have been in a relationship with a pwBPD just don't understand the ambivalence and how relationships can be. It seems like your friend was trying to be supportive.

I know she didn't mean any harm and was trying to console me. That's kind of what's upsetting - that an outside group of friends who've been hearing about this for almost three weeks would understand the situation as my being unceremoniously dumped. I'm worried I'm unable to see something totally obvious to everyone around me, potentially including my bf/x?bf.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe he has done this before. Balance the logic and rationality with your emotions and focus on that.

This is actually one thing that's giving me hope. He's done similar things, before. I can think of two prior instances, though there are probably more: the first time, we'd just started dating. After two months, he abruptly broke up with me, disappeared, then showed up a month later, wanting to get back together. Two years ago (to the date), he very suddenly did an about-face (quite literally; we'd been getting along and, the minute I saw him, his face turned to sudden and complete hatred out of nowhere) when we were supposed to go to a play, together. There was a similar verbal onslaught - actually, that time was worse! - before he cancelled at the last minute for my friend's wedding, then disappeared on a gambling binge for the next 21 days.

The primary difference being that - both those times - I'd reached out to him. When he first dumped me, I wrote him a casual "maybe he can hang out some time" email. The second time, I'd been in contact with him throughout the gambling binge; he just wouldn't physically see me. And, when he came back, I had to convince him not to break up with me. I have no idea what to expect if he makes the first move and am really doubting whether or not it was a good decision.

For me the splitting part is the worst. I keep wondering, how is it possible he can just throw it all out of the window?  And how can he turn me into this ungrateful, rejecting b___ that doesn't care about him at all, when all I've done is care and be there for him?

Yes! I totally agree! The splitting part is so scary - how are you supposed to convince someone you're not totally evil when they won't even look you in the eye? Plus, banking on someone to actually reach out to someone they've essentially marked as Satan and have a reasonable conversation is starting to seem deluded. For lack of a better analogy, if I found out the guy I'd been dating for 8+ years was, say, a sociopath who'd been plotting to murder me, why would I want to take him back?

(Ironically, at this point, I'd probably take back my hypothetical murderous boyfriend in a heartbeat!)

This is part of the reason why waiting on that call is so painful - if he's painted me black, the only reason he'd call would be to hold up his word to a friend. And my bf/x?bf is notoriously unreliable and stubborn - hence, I'm still blocked on Facebook.

If he's only able to see me as demonic, is there any way to reverse that? I don't want to come across as needy but I'm wondering if things would work out better if he could see me in person? Would my physical presence maybe reverse the object constancy that causes him to only see me as pure evil? Oh, and remind him of how eerily I resemble all the hot girls he's gawking at?

Ugh.

[EaglesJuju]

The primary difference being that - both those times - I'd reached out to him. When he first dumped me, I wrote him a casual "maybe he can hang out some time" email. The second time, I'd been in contact with him throughout the gambling binge; he just wouldn't physically see me. And, when he came back, I had to convince him not to break up with me. I have no idea what to expect if he makes the first move and am really doubting whether or not it was a good decision.

He does have a history of behaving this way. Sometimes past behavior does predict behavior.

What was your reason for going NC and not reaching out as you did in the past?

[nomoremommyfood]

What was your reason for going NC and not reaching out as you did in the past?

It was based on advice from these boards - that giving him the upper hand would only reenforce bad behavior. I've also promised his best friend I wouldn't call - also based on my bf/xbf needing to take accountability for his actions. There have been about three instances over the past 20 days where he promised his friend he'd contact me.

He never did.

At this point, I don't know what to think - it's a freakin' eight and a half year relationship and he's willing to totally discard it on a whim. I'm kind of in shock and everything reminds me of him. I'm in an apartment we painted together. His little drawings are all over my bulletin board. I have to collect laundry change from a jar covered in an "I love you" collage. Considering the Facebook block, his constantly adding random hot girls as "friends, and ongoing refusal to make the slightest effort, it seems really obvious that I've been dumped in the worst possible way. No explanation, totally out of the blue, and after a menial fight about something I still can't even identify.

I'm really sorry if I'm monopolizing the conversation. I'm dropping the "wait for him to call" thing tomorrow, though I fully expect him to totally ignore me if i contact him. This is brutal.

[formflier]

I'm dropping the "wait for him to call" thing tomorrow, though I fully expect him to totally ignore me if i contact him. 

Dealing with the behaviors of pwBPD traits is brutal!  You are right on the money with that one... .

I can feel the frustration... .grief... .loss coming through in your posts. 

How would you describe the emotions you are feeling?

 


Why would you do that?  That seems like a big "change of plans"... .curious how you came to this plan/idea.

Do you think you will feel better or worse if you attempt contact and are rebuffed or ignored.?

FF

[Lovingme35]

I am so sorry for the pain that you are going through. This is one of my biggest fears as well. Even small breaks away from my SO send me into a state of anxiety and panic.  Wishing you the best today. Hoping for a positive update.

[nomoremommyfood]

I talked to him, yesterday. I called his friend and told him the situation, and got a call from my xbf/bf about four hours later.

It was not what I expected and not good. The long silence was an attempt at "no contact" and he only called as a favor to his friend - whom, despite his assurances of "of course he's not breaking up with you!" knew he wanted to break up with me the whole time. I don't know rather to be furious that his friend lied to me or grateful that he convinced him I deserved to know what was going on. Because "all his friends" told him he just needed to go no contact and never speak to me, again. He's said this before and refuses to tell me the specific friends - I'd go after them with pitchforks because, after over eight years, these are people I know and who've been polite to my face before stabbing me in the back. I couldn't even get in "you're only supposed to use 'no contact' after clarifying a break-up" without him interrupting me.

The conversation lasted three hours and was... .ugh. Though I fully expected it to begin with "I'm breaking up with you" (I assumed this conversation would just bring us to "normal" ground than work on boundaries and validation at another time), I didn't expect him to stick to his guns. At best, he seemed to warm up when I told him why I loved him so much, then - as usual - he'd heat up again and go into attack mode. I tried to maintain my composure and - when things got argumentative - would say "let's take a second to calm down." This seemed to work in keeping the conversation at least vaguely civil.

There was no apology from him. He never owned up to anything. In fact, he was sure to drive in the point that his whole intention in coming over that night was to use me for sex before leaving me. Wow.

My point was based around "We don't have to be together forever, but I don't want to break up right now" He kept repeating "Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't want to date you?" I kept saying "because you constantly tell me different things and I don't know what to believe... .and you always say I should know you well enough not to take you seriously when you're angry."

The only thing that oddly seemed to help was my telling him I was also re-considering the relationship and, while I wanted to work on myself, I had a list of resentments toward him I needed to see if I could get past. 

Another thing that baffles me - he supposedly loves me (he rarely tells me this) but "It's possible to be deeply and madly in love with someone but not want to date them." His reasons aren't 100% clear. First, it was because I freaked out at him during the fight and he can't be around someone who puts his safety at risk or might cause him to get arrested (?). Then, it turned to "I just moved into a new apartment and it seems like a good time to have a fresh start." Apparently, I stood with him through those months of him living at his parents house and using my apartment as the "punching bag motel" for nothing.

After hours of me trying to call a "truce" and him rejecting it, I finally go "all I'm asking is for a little break." He's suddenly like "Oh, that's okay. We can do that." That's exactly what I meant by "truce", but whatever.

TL:)R - After three weeks of being falsely told he was "licking his wounds" and would apologize any day, we're on a break for the foreseeable future. I don't really know the terms of the break other than we agreed no other people (I added "I won't go out with anyone else if you won't", which I think has a nice "I could, but I won't" ring to it). I asked him to remove the Facebook block and he won't - first, because he doesn't want me writing anything nasty on his wall, then because "I don't know how to remove it." After hanging up dazed, it took twenty minutes before I was suddenly freezing, achy, and sick with a fever.

My apologies for the long, long break-down. I do want to stay with him - I love him more now than when we first met and I can't imagine a life without him and really hope this "break" results in a return to normal. On a practical note, should I post on the "staying" board if I want to stay but he doesn't (or is on the fence)?

Thank you so much for all your help through this abject nightmare of an experience. At least doors of communication are open, again, even though it's not the outcome I ever thought I'd hear.

[formflier]

 

The long silence was an attempt at "no contact" and he only called as a favor to his friend - whom, despite his assurances of "of course he's not breaking up with you!" knew he wanted to break up with me the whole time.

This is where triangles get messy... .

[an0ught]

Dear nomoremommyfood,

 this must hurt badly

I very much doubt that his friends leaned on him for NC out of the blue. They are more likely encouraging him after he signaled that he wanted to break up. They are understandable reluctant to communicate something he should be communicating. He is making decisions but not taking responsibility, probably not the first time.

On a practical note, should I post on the "staying" board if I want to stay but he doesn't (or is on the fence)?

The staying (which knows your back story) should be ok for some time if you feel comfortable here - it all depends on you, some topics on staying may be triggering. Undecided would be the place to go if or when you want feedback on the thought of disengaging from your side as "run" messages are not allowed on the staying board.

It is not an easy situation for you 

[EaglesJuju]

Hi nomoremommyfood,

How are you doing?

I am glad that you got to communicated with your pwBPD. I am sorry that you have been going through this. It is difficult it is to cope with the uncertainty and the behaviors. 

Your pwBPD seems like he is dysregulating and somewhat unstable at the moment. Moving can trigger a pwBPD.

I understand that it was not the outcome that you were expecting, but do you feel that a break may be a positive thing for you?

[nomoremommyfood]

Your pwBPD seems like he is dysregulating and somewhat unstable at the moment. Moving can trigger a pwBPD.

I understand that it was not the outcome that you were expecting, but do you feel that a break may be a positive thing for you?

I know I've been off these board for a while. It's a loong story and I'll start a new thread - things have gone from everyday horrific to cartoonish super-horrific.

I did think a break would be a positive thing, if only to temporarily ease the anxiety without having to deal with him in a vulnerable state. Unfortunately, he now claims the "break" was just to get me off the phone. Really weird, because it didn't seem like that, at the time.

Thank you for mentioning his move! Since he moved, he's been in better spirits (I noticed this when he first found the apartment) and all about going out with friends he hasn't seen in a while and feeling better... .yet has translated his good mood to simply not being around me as opposed to, uh, not living with his parents whom he hates!

Anyway, I'm not sure what to do or if there is anything I can do aside from writing of 8.5 years of sworn commitment to someone through thick and thin, who tossed me to the side when he found a better living situation. I'll explain more in a new thread.

[shatra]

nomoremommy wrote

When we've broken up in the past, very little changes except he gets to use the "I'm not even your boyfriend!" card, plus the freedom to "find someone who deserves him."

-----What are those statements about? If he's "not your boyfriend" in name, is that part of the distancing? Or so he doesn't feel engulfed?  Finding someone who deserves him----why does he say that to you?

Shatra