How to validate a wrong perception of me?

[an0ught]

Hi Issy,

You're right, thanks waverider.

So here is my improved response:

"(Hi, I wanted to message you sooner, but I wanted to make sure I don't invalidate you again.)

I saw that you were hurt this Thursday. I got so emotional I couldn't tell you I know how that feels, I can also be sad and angry when I feel I am not good enough.

These series of judgements has hurt me intensly. That is definitely something I do not want, I can't handle that. And I saw that it made you feel bad too, I do not want that either. So that's not working indeed. I still think it's important to express your feelings and the things that upset you.

Maybe it's an idea that we check in with each other the moment something is upsetting to make sure we understand what the other said? So our feelings don't get piled up. My intentions are good. I really like being with you."

Building sentences without "I" is very hard initially. Often it helps to do it with "I" and the reformulate it. Like

"(Hi, I wanted to message you sooner, but I wanted to make sure I don't invalidate you again.)

I saw that you were hurt this Thursday. I got so emotional I couldn't tell you I know how that feels, I can also be sad and angry when I feel I am not good enough.

could become:

You were badly hurt this Thursday. Waited with sending you a message to give you space to get better a little. When one feels one is not good enough that can hurt badly - been there myself in the past and still get upset when I see it happening to others.

Now the rest of the message may be better done f2f. You want a change. That is more in the direction of SET and DEARMAN and frankly JaDE - definitely a lot of explaining there. The problem I sense is that you want to tell her a lot. That you want to set the facts straight.  Validation is not SET but a part of SET. Validation is focused on her emotions and perception and helping her to make sense of her inner world. If you choose to validate then this is about her and your views take the backseat. Validation is about helping her to be anchored in this world and not another.

Overall, less words and avoid anything close to JADEing may get the message across better.

My friend fears I am critical about her because I have been critical about other friends towards her.

How to validate a wrong perception of me?

It may well be that you are more an analytical and logical person who values facts. You tend to Explain a lot and that is part of jadE. Also you tend to form judgments of things you observe and share them which is part of Jade. When hurt you rely on your analytical skills and argue and defend yourself which is also part of jADe. All this makes you prone to invalidate your friend. And explaining it won't make it better. It is a fact of life that we all hurt people around us all the time to a degree and all we can do is minimize our negative impact and optimize our positive impact. Which you started out doing  

So how to validate the "good girl". A first step would be understand the root problem.

My friend fears I am critical about her because I have been critical about other friends towards her. With this basis she calls me stuff I don't recognise myself in. I had to say that. She then felt very negative about everything (she thought I was). I was shaking during these awfull accusations. And then she told me I was acting like I'm sensitive but I'm not and it's not fair... .

There is anxiety and fear to be judged which results in a tendency to leash out at others when it happens. Probably also a bit of shame and feeling being not good enough. Often this happens when people have a weak sense of self and not really good boundaries. They are overly sensitive. And again since she is afraid to be judged for being too sensitive she lashes out and projects it on others.

In the beginning of our friendship, when I didn't know she had BPD, she judged and blamed me for being a 'good girl'. I responded I don't believe in such things, I am who I am without choosing to be bad or good. Well that excalated a bit then. How would I respond now? I don't know! Like: 'I understand it makes you feel you are the bad girl... .' ohno that's not good right? I don't think she is a bad girl or me a good girl! I still don't have the hang of this! What do you think how best to respond to this one?

O.k. here we got black and white thinking on her side. Which makes you uncomfortable i.e. you are invalidated since deep down you know you are not a perfect good girl. Btw. the fact that this makes you uncomfortable is again a sign of strong judgement strengthening your "inner critic" that undermines your self esteem.

Now do you have to set the "good girl" view straight. No, not at all. She uses "good girl" to express how bad she feels about herself. Telling her your sins won't make her feel better. Arguing the facts is a loosing proposition and will only invalidate her. She needs to understand that you heard her:

 Yeah right, I'm good girl and that makes you bad girl <big break><big break>   - Note: B&W message to ensure it is understood. This is likely not your view at all but signals your understanding.

 What's so bad about you?<break> - Note: No "Why" but an exploring "What"

      blah blah

 Ahhh, hmmm, you think so?<break> - Note: Listening noises can be helpful too signaling attention and some understanding. Also note: No own judgment but asking for her view

    blah blah

 I understand. I did not catch aspect X<break>

   blah blah

 Yeah, this is pretty bad. Must be tough to deal with a past like that <break>

   blah blah

 Yeah, and today anything learned from that?

  blah blah

 Learning if important. So is forgiving yourself. The latter is not easy. Struggle with it myself. <break>

   blah, blah

The main point of this dialog is to show how to explore, perceive rather than judge. Understanding the other person and making sure in the process for the other person to feel understood it key to validation.

Reducing JADE will not be easy for you but worthwhile. Try not to think of a pink elephant! Try hard to not picture a pink elephant! You are likely to fail. Negative goals are hard to pursue so here are positive ones:

 - work on validation. A good validation practice is to greet new members on the board  .

 - Reduce your reliance on facts as the main basis for understanding. Emotions are much more important than you give them credit for. And since you appreciate facts: Work on your understanding of emotions and consider their weight in steering behavior and decision making. Educate yourself about the underlying facts. E.g. look at emotions and advertising or decision making.

 - Focus more on exploring and perceiving and tune down judgment of others. This makes you not only less likely to JADE but also will weaken your inner critic and improve your self esteem.

 - Accept that you will JADE at times and that is ok too. Forgive others and yourself.

And then she told me I was acting like I'm sensitive but I'm not and it's not fair... .

Well you were getting defensive so you are not totally insensitive. PwBPD are on the other hand experts to get under our skin. Fact is we all are to a degree sensitive and this sensitivity lets us experience emotions and guides us. Listening and understanding better your own emotions can also help you with validation.

The fact that you put yourself out here and ask for help is also a sign that you are not super sensitive and are open for feedback  

Keep going  

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[Issy]

Thank you for your effort to go into what I all said here!

I was trying to do SET with validation in it, that's part of SET. I read that starting with I can feel harsh to them, I forgot about it. But I also read I should put her demonstrated feelings into words and not to tell her how she feels. I understand this because what do I know right? It would annoy me. That's why I said 'I saw'.

It's true I tend to explain and defend. It's hard not to when attacked. I agree I shouldn't. But sometimes I have to explain. I told her I will message you about what happened tomorrow, I didn't, should I not explain to her why I am later? (because my SET is still not perfect, I don't want to invalidate her again. So not because to give her space, that would be lying I don't want to do that.)

And I assumed she feels not good enough (everyone would come to the conclusion with all she said), she said 'if you critise you friends you might critise me'. Can I still tell her 'feeling not good enough is hurting', when I assumed it? She felt negativity which she didn't needed right now, that's what she said aswell. (it seemed she blamed it all on me while she accused me and attacked me for things I'm not)

Thanks for the example about the good girl thing, it would have went that way wasn't it that I was triggered.

[Issy]

Validation is for emotions... .not for opinions.  So... .you can validate "fear".  

To properly validate you have to find the "target"... .or the right emotion.  Sometime they make odd statements and it's hard to figure out... .is there anger here... or fear... .or ... what?  

That is where I love "Help me understand what you are feeling when think of this question... ."  Be very gentle when you ask for help understanding.  If an emotion is revealed... .validate.  If more opinions come out (you are judgmental of me... because you are judgmental of my friends)  then deflect... ."I'm sorry you feel that way... .I'm interested in your emotions... "

Note:  This may get nowhere... .some pwBPD traits are very resistant to revealing emotions... .

OK... .if you can't get anywhere with finding a target to validate... .then you SET an opinion.  

Can you give it a try?  The "truth" is your version of the opinion... .

So... .supporting statement

Empathize

Give your truth about (counter) the negative opinion.  

So I have to validate her feeling not a thought she might have, and I should ask her how she feels. She feels negativity, should I ask her how that makes her feel?

How to start SET when you don't know how she feels? Should I say this: "I see you are angry, and I understand how you can get mad at me," "How frustrating this must be for you."? I got that from this site www.BPD.about.com/od/forfriendsandfamily/a/SET.htm

Further more on that site it says the truth statement is usually responding to a difficult demand the BPD asks of you. What is my friends demand? I change myself?

I really don't know my thruth anymore. It's too much for me now. I can't this set thing or validating thing fck it all I give up  I try so hard but everytime I do it wrong

(I find pornographic a pornographic word you people whom are scared of something natural sorry guys I am not allowed to express myself here that crackes me up being fcking sensored on a ffingsite where people tell eachother to respect boundaries what the heck)

[Issy]

I was so frustrated last night, all my night terrors are coming back in moments like these

I still want to try though, I never give up, and in the end the positive will always come to surface with me again. She sended me a message yesterday. I don't want to post it here due to privacy. I want to send her message along with what I want to say to her, to the ones whom are interested in helping me. Is that ok?

[an0ught]

So I have to validate her feeling not a thought she might have, and I should ask her how she feels. She feels negativity, should I ask her how that makes her feel?

Nope, you simply tell her that she is down and she is showing it in her all actions.

Validation is often about grabbing the proverbial elephant in the room by its horns.

[Issy]

Argh I feel like an idiot now. I've finally sended my message which I wanted to do sooner (but was scared to do it wrong again that we got both hurt again). But you were right! I should've talked less, I was trying to respond to two things her new message and what happened earlier. I kept it brief but I feel like not brief enough... .I hope she thinks I mean what I say! Now I sound so distant like a shrink!  

I only know whats right when I have said or done it already, only then I can feel how is best to respond because it gets real i suppose

[takingandsending]

Issy,

You raise my question/issue to an0ught.

Now I sound so distant like a shrink!   

Validation, as described by an0ught, feels so much like playing the role of my wife's psychiatrist ... .a role I do not feel equipped to play nor even want to. Where does my resistance stem from? Why, in general, is validation so hard to do for so many of us? Our minds are active, and as we receive information we process it, filter it and use it in ways that make sense to us. I feel like with validation, I am supposed to receive information and mirror it back to my wife. How is that not a form of walking on eggshells, in which I am removing all traces of myself from the atmosphere?

In buddhism, it is taught to take in the discomfort, unease, or agitation caused by our afflicted states of mind and send out that which brings us happiness and joy ... .first to ourselves but then radiating outward to encompass those we love, those we are neutral toward and those that cause us harm. It is a way of remaining receptive and open to the situations that we find ourselves in without becoming rigid and fixed. I feel that with validation, even the aspiration to mean well, to do well, must be removed or risk invalidating the pwBPD. An0ught has stated in the past that this is not harmful to us, it's all about the pwBPD, but I don't know sometimes. It may be very effective, but in the long run, is it all that good for us?

My wife's psychiatrist does this because she is trained in this profession, and she is paid. And she has a whole life outside of my wife's life. Ugh. I just have a lot of resistance to being a counselor for my wife. Stuck.