need help with a boundary--huge trigger

[whitebackatcha]

PwBPD (long-distance) will accuse and end the conversation when she gets irritated. For instance, my misunderstanding a comment, she will tell me we can talk when I actually care about the conversation. She becomes irate if I validate feelings. I am hugely triggered by her leaving like this. How should I respond?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[married21years]

tricky very tricky

this isnt about me its about you

try that

[waverider]

Do you have some examples of these misunderstandings?

There can be may reasons for reactions to the commonly crossed wires.

[whitebackatcha]

Do you have some examples of these misunderstandings?

There can be may reasons for reactions to the commonly crossed wires.

For instance, we were having a discussion about someone, and she compared them to someone else. So, two people mentioned. She says, "So I have X doing this, and Y doing this!" Well, X is also the name of her best friend, the person she would be talking about any other time. For some reason, I assumed she was now talking about them, and asked a follow up question. I then realized my mistake, and said, "Oh, duh, sorry, you meant the other X." She said, "Let me know when you can commit to a conversation. Good night." I usually act confused, or ask about it, and sometimes that works to get her to come back, but she is still very sensitive, and it may happen again in the same conversation. The issue is that this particular behavior is very upsetting to me (i.e. suddenly leaving with no discussion, especially based on a false assumption). It seems to happen when she is already having a crabby day. It is even more difficult because these conversations are the only way to connect, and I really do look forward to them.

She did this the other day when I mentioned a show I was watching, didn't say anything (we have conversations off an on all day, a pause is nothing for us), and she said, "I'll let you watch your show. Good night."

This is also how she deals with things when she is upset about a conflict, which I understand as her just needing a break. It is still emotional for me, and I recently realized I have to just let her go at these times.

[formflier]

It is still emotional for me, and I recently realized I have to just let her go at these times.

I think you are on the right track... .she is ending the conversation... .let her.

The only boundary I can think of is to only discuss one thing at a time... .don't do complex conversations.  That could seem difficult... .

Thoughts?

FF

[whitebackatcha]

I think you are on the right track... .she is ending the conversation... .let her.

The only boundary I can think of is to only discuss one thing at a time... .don't do complex conversations.  That could seem difficult... .

Thoughts?

FF

I think that would be difficult as well.

Part of my issue is that, of all the things they do that we just have to adapt to, this particular thing had me crying, "This isn't how a relationship is supposed to be! Normal people don't do this!" I work around so many other things, just like everyone else here. Fine. But this one... .

[123Phoebe]

It seems to happen when she is already having a crabby day.

In the future, try not to take it personal.  She's crabby so let her be.  Her ending conversations before they get too heated is actually a good thing!  Unfortunately what our partners don't do is say, "Hey, it's alright, I'm just a little sensitive today."   

[whitebackatcha]

It seems to happen when she is already having a crabby day.

In the future, try not to take it personal.  She's crabby so let her be.  Her ending conversations before they get too heated is actually a good thing!  Unfortunately what our partners don't do is say, "Hey, it's alright, I'm just a little sensitive today."   

It's hard not to be defensive when she is accusing me and the result is what feels borderline abusive for me, personally. I want to talk it out and fix it. But yeah... .you're right, of course. I've read the books, I know why defensiveness isn't good. I can usually get her to come back though, so there is that reward for me. I also have a huge amount of anxiety when there is unresolved conflict. That is obviously what I need to keep working on, too.

It is especially hard with her because she has ended the relationship many times over seemingly nothing. Or she holds a grudge, and I am left to decipher if she is still upset the next time we talk, because casual answers and sarcastic answers can sound exactly the same.

[whitebackatcha]

I appreciate everyone's responses. I'm not trying to argue them away, just throwing every part of it out there so I can get as much feedback as possible. 

[123Phoebe]

It's hard not to be defensive when she is accusing me and the result is what feels borderline abusive for me, personally. I want to talk it out and fix it.

Are you aware of her crabbiness (in general) before she lashes out at you?

[whitebackatcha]

Are you aware of her crabbiness (in general) before she lashes out at you?

Sometimes. When the conversation is going okay anyway, I hope foe the best. Other times, no, I'm completely blindsided.

[123Phoebe]

Are you aware of her crabbiness (in general) before she lashes out at you?

Sometimes. When the conversation is going okay anyway, I hope foe the best. Other times, no, I'm completely blindsided.

Have you had a chance to look through the Lessons at the right?  #3 and #4 have tons of good info that might help this situation.  All of them are super important to read through though.  They've helped tremendously in bringing partner and I closer together, a better understanding of each other

[whitebackatcha]

Have you had a chance to look through the Lessons at the right?  #3 and #4 have tons of good info that might help this situation.  All of them are super important to read through though.  They've helped tremendously in bringing partner and I closer together, a better understanding of each other

I have, multiple times. It can be hard to tell the difference between following that advice, and being a doormat. An outside perspective helps.

[123Phoebe]

Have you had a chance to look through the Lessons at the right?  #3 and #4 have tons of good info that might help this situation.  All of them are super important to read through though.  They've helped tremendously in bringing partner and I closer together, a better understanding of each other

I have, multiple times. It can be hard to tell the difference between following that advice, and being a doormat. An outside perspective helps.

How so?  What would need to happen in order to not feel like a doormat? 

The reason I ask is because it's something I've asked myself and I sometimes end up cracking up laughing (at my answer) because what I'm wanting is sometimes so over-the-top considering the source(s) and what is within their capability (when triggered!), and it's usually because I am also feeling all sensitive (triggered!), not knowing how to go about expressing myself in a way that will be heard.

So here we are not having any idea how to express ourselves.

The Lessons really really help

[whitebackatcha]

Have you had a chance to look through the Lessons at the right?  #3 and #4 have tons of good info that might help this situation.  All of them are super important to read through though.  They've helped tremendously in bringing partner and I closer together, a better understanding of each other

I have, multiple times. It can be hard to tell the difference between following that advice, and being a doormat. An outside perspective helps.

How so?  What would need to happen in order to not feel like a doormat? 

The reason I ask is because it's something I've asked myself and I sometimes end up cracking up laughing (at my answer) because what I'm wanting is sometimes so over-the-top considering the source(s) and what is within their capability (when triggered!), and it's usually because I am also feeling all sensitive (triggered!), not knowing how to go about expressing myself in a way that will be heard.

So here we are not having any idea how to express ourselves.

The Lessons really really help

I don't know. It feels like she is deciding I did something hurtful or mean when I am already putting SO MUCH ENERGY into doing the right things, and the consequence is that she withdraws her love and connection (because, when it is long distance, I don't even get to at least be in the same house as a way of staying close; it is like she drove off and didn't say when or if she would be back). And then the next day, I'm supposed to initiate conversation, hoping she isn't still upset and risking being further rejected, because if I don't initiate, I know not trying to connect and trigger her even worse, and it gets really bad then.

I've read the articles, I've read the books. I've used some of the skills successfully. Am I really not allowed to expect anything from her if I want to be with her? I'm sick of just saying "okay" to everything, everything, and having to act like it doesn't matter. I get how BPD works, I do. It's really just "she can't regulate, let her go, find something else to fill my time"?

I didn't really answer your question though. If she could at least tell me she needs space, and lets me say okay, so it feels respectful, it wouldn't be so bad. But I just told her that, finally, trying to adapt but still feel respected, and she hasn't been doing it. I guess that's my answer, then.

[waverider]

Leaving you with a cliff hanger is a reliable way of ensuring you are being attentive for next time. ie it is a proactive defense against abandonment.

The resolution of this will be a mixture of acceptance on your behalf and a means to enforce a boundary against abrupt hanging up. You task is were to define the line.

Keep in mind boundaries are not about being fair, or even coming to an agreement. It is drawing a line where it has gone past your level of acceptance and begins to eat you up. If she is leaving you with cliff hangers then don't be so quick to tune in next time. She wants you to hear her. That need will override her impulse to shut you down.

That is her choice to make as a consequence. She will only make choices based on consequences, not on your desires or requests, let alone empathetic understanding. Trying to tell her so will be received as controlling, and round you go.

I am already putting SO MUCH ENERGY into doing the right things,

By who? Not by you, we often forget to do the right thing by us. We have to look after us first and not get lost trying to fix them

[whitebackatcha]

Leaving you with a cliff hanger is a reliable way of ensuring you are being attentive for next time. ie it is a proactive defense against abandonment.

This is exactly how it feels. Yes. This is our entire relationship, and had been for over a year now. I am always there, always waiting, always forgiving. (I clearly have my stuff that I'm working on as well, no question)

Help me figure this out.

I *can't* move on and let go because I am still emotionally entangled in the conflict she just created. I need to be able to cut that tie. We often have online discussions, because this is more convenient for us (these major disagreements don't happen on the phone, and conflict is resolved quickly, interestingly, although isn't usually practical to insist on phone only). If she does this, would it work with a BPD to say, "Yes, this doesn't seem to be working right now. I'll let you initiate the next conversation"? If she challenges this, I don't know what I will do, restate that I will let her initiate the next day and then stop responding? Advice, please.

One important piece to know. If I just don't contact and wait for her, it has resulted in her shutting down in a way that can take weeks or months of normal conversations to undo. Like so many others, she wants space, but true space just triggers her abandonment, in a way that (not making excuses) triggers her more deeply than she can recover from soon. It's just not worth it. If I have told her clearly that it is on her to initiate, hopefully that won't happen.

Thoughts?

[formflier]

It feels like she is deciding I did something hurtful or mean when I am already putting SO MUCH ENERGY into doing the right things, 

I have the exact same feelings... .

For me... .I realized that I was hoping for validation... .agreement... .noticing... .that I was doing these things for her.

They rarely got noticed.

I had to think long and hard about motives... .much better to put energy into something because it aligns with your values... .because you feel good about putting energy into it.

Doing it and expecting... .or hoping... .someone else will notice and give you a pat on the back... .has usually ended with me being disappointed... .I suspect you will find similar results.

FF

[whitebackatcha]

I have the exact same feelings... .

For me... .I realized that I was hoping for validation... .agreement... .noticing... .that I was doing these things for her.

I definitely get that. To be honest, and I KNOW this is wrong, but some part of me thinks that if I follow her rules well enough, she'll stop getting upset like this. Of course, the rules always change, and it's her BPD, not me... .

When things go well, they go REALLY well. She can be incredibly good at connecting and making me feel good. THAT person makes me want to do anything to make her happy. It's just THESE times that me wonder if I'm wasting my time.

[waverider]

I have the exact same feelings... .

For me... .I realized that I was hoping for validation... .agreement... .noticing... .that I was doing these things for her.

I definitely get that. To be honest, and I KNOW this is wrong, but some part of me thinks that if I follow her rules well enough, she'll stop getting upset like this. Of course, the rules always change, and it's her BPD, not me... .

When things go well, they go REALLY well. She can be incredibly good at connecting and making me feel good. THAT person makes me want to do anything to make her happy. It's just THESE times that me wonder if I'm wasting my time.

Problem is your life ends up being a reaction to her needs and feelings, you are not guiding your actions by your needs.

[whitebackatcha]

Problem is your life ends up being a reaction to her needs and feelings, you are not guiding your actions by your needs.

I agree. I feel like my proposed statements that I mentioned would help with that. If anybody sees a better way to phrase them, that would be okay, too.

[waverider]

I *can't* move on and let go because I am still emotionally entangled in the conflict she just created. I need to be able to cut that tie. We often have online discussions, because this is more convenient for us (these major disagreements don't happen on the phone, and conflict is resolved quickly, interestingly, although isn't usually practical to insist on phone only). If she does this, would it work with a BPD to say, "Yes, this doesn't seem to be working right now. I'll let you initiate the next conversation"? If she challenges this, I don't know what I will do, restate that I will let her initiate the next day and then stop responding? Advice, please.


Thoughts?

Good principle, but a bit clinical, could be taken as blaming and a bit huffy.

Try and keep it light something like this maybe



(SUPPORT)If you dont want to talk about this right now thats ok, (EMPATHY)Would you like me to give you some space? (TRUTH & RESOLUTION)Let me know when you want to catch up next, in a couple of days maybe whenever suits and we can do something fun 

[whitebackatcha]

Good principle, but a bit clinical, could be taken as blaming and a bit huffy.

Try and keep it light something like this maybe



(SUPPORT)If you dont want to talk about this right now thats ok, (EMPATHY)Would you like me to give you some space? (TRUTH & RESOLUTION)Let me know when you want to catch up next, in a couple of days maybe whenever suits and we can do something fun 

Should I just skip attempts to validate unstated feelings, since they aren't well-received anyway?

[married21years]

try slowing down staying calm till something tangible you can validate comes out or ask if she is having a feeling that you want to validate. 

[waverider]

Good principle, but a bit clinical, could be taken as blaming and a bit huffy.

Try and keep it light something like this maybe



(SUPPORT)If you dont want to talk about this right now thats ok, (EMPATHY)Would you like me to give you some space? (TRUTH & RESOLUTION)Let me know when you want to catch up next, in a couple of days maybe whenever suits and we can do something fun 

Should I just skip attempts to validate unstated feelings, since they aren't well-received anyway?

Try to avoid assumptions and guessing what her issues are. If in doubt practice NOT INVALIDATING, rather than uncertain validating which can go horribly wrong if you have misinterpretation problems already. This leads to the principle of less is more.

[whitebackatcha]

Try to avoid assumptions and guessing what her issues are. If in doubt practice NOT INVALIDATING, rather than uncertain validating which can go horribly wrong if you have misinterpretation problems already. This leads to the principle of less is more.

Okay, this makes sense. I was rereading about projection, boundaries, validation, etc last night, as a refresher, too. Yes, assumptions aren't respectful, and are really an attempt to fix her. In not allowing her to exit a conversation, that in and of itself is invalidating... .I feel I have a good plan now. You really hit the nail on the head when you mentioned the power issues in keeping me on the hook when she ignores me. I'm going to keep thinking about that one.

Thanks so much, everyone.

[whitebackatcha]

Good principle, but a bit clinical, could be taken as blaming and a bit huffy.

Try and keep it light something like this maybe



(SUPPORT)If you dont want to talk about this right now thats ok, (EMPATHY)Would you like me to give you some space? (TRUTH & RESOLUTION)Let me know when you want to catch up next, in a couple of days maybe whenever suits and we can do something fun 

So, I ended with this, and she escalated and ended the relationship. She has already shown signs of waning. I am embracing the idea of no longer giving her the power, and understand this to be an extinction burst. She did contact me about a family issue, saying, "I'm only contacting you to tell you xyz, since you asked me to." I said, "I'm glad that went okay, I hope everyone is handling it well. I'm glad I could be involved. Thanks for letting me know." And that was it. Should I have taken her message as an olive branch and attempted further conversation? I really think she would have been at least a little distant if I had, and it would have given her back the power.