A week's vacation and simplicity parenting

[Depression = 72% of members]

Have any of you ever noticed that little in our relationships w BPD spouses/SOs in simple? Maybe it's never simple in any relationship.

My wife has been away for 8 days at a writers' conference. I worked and looked after S4 and S9 for the week. It has been so peaceful and easy. No daily arguments. No contest of wills. I felt so much more appreciation of my kids, had so much more opportunity to really just observe them and appreciate the positives within who they are and how they show up in the world. It makes me really think about what my T had once asked me. ":)o I feel as effective, available or supportive as a parent when I am in relationship with my wife or when I am apart?"

This is really tough. I feel so much more peaceful and easy as a parent when I am with the boys on my own. I am struggling to understand if my kids' lives would be better if I separated. I don't imagine that watching me negotiate a BPD relationship every day necessarily gives my sons the best of me that I can give them, even if my wife and I are functioning and getting along okay. A lot of my energy and attention still goes to my marriage, and I know that it would in any relationship, but surely most of us would agree much more so for a relationship with pwBPD. If that is the case, it sure seems like I could do more for my sons outside of this relationship.

Confused. 

[takingandsending]

Have any of you ever noticed that little in our relationships w BPD spouses/SOs in simple? Maybe it's never simple in any relationship.

My wife has been away for 8 days at a writers' conference. I worked and looked after S4 and S9 for the week. It has been so peaceful and easy. No daily arguments. No contest of wills. I felt so much more appreciation of my kids, had so much more opportunity to really just observe them and appreciate the positives within who they are and how they show up in the world. It makes me really think about what my T had once asked me. ":)o I feel as effective, available or supportive as a parent when I am in relationship with my wife or when I am apart?"

This is really tough. I feel so much more peaceful and easy as a parent when I am with the boys on my own. I am struggling to understand if my kids' lives would be better if I separated. I don't imagine that watching me negotiate a BPD relationship every day necessarily gives my sons the best of me that I can give them, even if my wife and I are functioning and getting along okay. A lot of my energy and attention still goes to my marriage, and I know that it would in any relationship, but surely most of us would agree much more so for a relationship with pwBPD. If that is the case, it sure seems like I could do more for my sons outside of this relationship.

Confused. 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Hmcbart]

I am right there with you. That question has been on my mind for several months now. I want to work on myself and see if these changes will help. Boundaries are what I have lacked for so many years. I see the way my two sons act with her and worry about how it will affect them. I have been the one constant for them and a buffer for her actions and rages.

I just wanted you to know that you're not alone. I haven't had the luxery of having a week alone with them because she is a stay at home mom. Both of our families are in another state and she only leaves them alone with relatives when visiting them. Even when I'm with them she doesn't leave them alone.

[takingandsending]

Thanks Hmcbart. 

As if to underscore my thoughts, my wife called from her stop over at the airport. She's soon to arrive home. She asked how the boys did at a friend's b-day party. I was telling her and then mentioned how over the top excited S9 is to be asked to his first ever sleep over b-day party. She mentions that S4 has a b-day party earlier that day and S9 also has extra-curricular stuff form 4-7 that night. She then says "I wish you wouldn't get him worked up about something that's going to be hard for him to go to. You never remember their schedule, and now I have to deal with you working him up." My brain looks for solutions; her brain looks for problems that reinforce her fears and beliefs that the kids perceive her as the "bad guy". Totally lost in the equation is how excited S9 is to be asked to a sleep over. There's no sense of, let's give him choices, or let him know that he can have his lessons and his party but has to be responsible. Only her fears.

Am I as effective, available and supportive a parent with my wife? No. And maybe, if I can't figure out how to be, I really have to consider leaving. Does anyone have advice on objectively looking at the pros and cons to staying? I am pretty peaceful right now after a week's break, and my mind feels relatively clear. I can see how I may be selling myself and my kids short. Would appreciate others' insights.

Thanks again Hmcbart. My wife is a stay at home mom too. But, I take the kids to do stuff with me, and have even taken elder son on vacation with me because I do not agree to staying within my wife's fears and need to control the kids. It's not healthy. I want more for them than she can offer. I don't doubt that she loves them and provides for a lot of their needs. It would be unfair to say otherwise. But there are so many potholes and quicksand they navigate with her. I really want more freedom and inner confidence for them.

[joshbjoshb]

Here is what I think:

If you do get divorced, they will be with her at least some of the time, if not half or most. That mean they will be totally exposed and at the mercy of a BPD person.

The damage they will get from being only with her without you to provide the stability, will be far greater than the time that you would be only with them.

[vortex of confusion]

Am I as effective, available and supportive a parent with my wife? No. And maybe, if I can't figure out how to be, I really have to consider leaving. Does anyone have advice on objectively looking at the pros and cons to staying? I am pretty peaceful right now after a week's break, and my mind feels relatively clear. I can see how I may be selling myself and my kids short. Would appreciate others' insights.

Some things to consider. . .

If you were to leave, who would most likely get custody? What kind of custody arrangement do you think could be navigated?

Would it be easier to navigate more time with the kids if you are together or separated? Since you see that it is easier for you to be a parent when she isn't around, is it possible to find ways for you to do stuff with the kids without her? Can you encourage her to do more stuff on her own and leave you with the kids?

If she had the kids for periods of time without you around, would she feed those fears more or less?

How would a separation impact things financially? If she is currently a stay at home mom, would separating require her to get a job or would you be expected to maintain two households financially? If that is the case, is that possible?

If you were to separate, how do you think it would impact the lifestyle of your kids? Would they have to give up activities or other things in order for the two of you to separate?

If there is a separation/divorce, then the courts will get involved and the courts will likely dictate who gets to see the kids when. Depending on what is triggered with her, that could get ugly. Go read some of the posts on the divorce/legal forum.

I am/was of the same opinion as you about feeling more effective as a parent when my husband isn't around. He nitpicks. His default answer is usually no and his anxiety tends to make the kids more anxious. I sat down and figured out what it would take financially. And, I read the struggles of those on the legal forums. I came to the conclusion that staying has its challenges. I think those challenges aren't as bad as the challenges of trying to navigate things legally and drag the kids through the whole custody and visitation stuff. I might change my mind later down the road when the kids are older.

For now, I think that, yes, things are more peaceful when he isn't around. However, trying to be a single parent without him would make me less effective in other ways. Since you are a guy, you are at a disadvantage with the whole custody/court stuff. It sucks but the truth is that women are often times given preference unless you can prove abuse or other extenuating circumstances.

[cloudten]

Here is what I think:

If you do get divorced, they will be with her at least some of the time, if not half or most. That mean they will be totally exposed and at the mercy of a BPD person.

The damage they will get from being only with her without you to provide the stability, will be far greater than the time that you would be only with them.

This whole discussion really hits heartstrings for me too. I am divorced from a pw ADHD. Part of my motivation for the divorce was that i wanted her to have a place to be without his disfunction and distraction. While the divorce did accomplish this... .it also made it so that she is even more exposed to it... .and i am not there to do anything about it... .to act as a buffer. I cannot control what happens when she is with him.   While i am happier, which does make me a better parent, 100%, i grieve over not being able to control what she is exposed to, or neglected, or what-npt the other half of the time. Also, i do feel children need both parents at the same time.

Courts are not as apt to give you full custody either. Unless she abandons you with the children completely, i would heavily heavily consider staying if only to be a buffer until they are old enough to choose who they want to see and be with.

[takingandsending]

Hi VOC - thank you for the food for thought

Some things to consider. . .

If you were to leave, who would most likely get custody? What kind of custody arrangement do you think could be navigated?

The state I live in tends to be a 50/50 state for custody. I have seen some extreme cases where the father had no job, was living with his daughter in a barn with no outdoor plumbing and still the guardian ad litem decided on 50/50. I think I would have a good shot at 50% custody.

Would it be easier to navigate more time with the kids if you are together or separated? Since you see that it is easier for you to be a parent when she isn't around, is it possible to find ways for you to do stuff with the kids without her? Can you encourage her to do more stuff on her own and leave you with the kids?

I think I would have more time with the kids by staying together. I basically am with the kids each evening after work and all weekend pretty much every weekend. My wife doesn't make huge efforts to do activities with them on weekends because she knows I am home and she wants a break. But she wants to direct traffic and competes with the kids for my attention, which really detracts from the quality of everyone's life.

If she had the kids for periods of time without you around, would she feed those fears more or less?

How would a separation impact things financially? If she is currently a stay at home mom, would separating require her to get a job or would you be expected to maintain two households financially? If that is the case, is that possible?

If you were to separate, how do you think it would impact the lifestyle of your kids? Would they have to give up activities or other things in order for the two of you to separate?

She does have the kids for periods of time without me around every day that I go to work and when I travel for business. I have come to the realization that she is going to feed her demons of rejection, being bullied, being hated through my S9 whether or not I am there. I protect him when I am around, but her drama will play out nonetheless.

Financially, it would be a very big negative for all of us. I would pay child support/alimony, for certain, in my state. We would likely have to sell our house and both rent something less than our current situation. I can't see any other way around my wife needing to find work, which she hasn't done in 12-13 years (and that was part time). Or she will re-marry because security is a very big deal for her. This part would really suck for everyone, basically. Not what I want. But it likely would change as one or both of us found new partners.

I worry most that my kids would have to stop attending their really good school and attend the local public schools, which aren't terrible but would be a pretty seismic shift for them. This is pushing me to wait more than anything else at this point. I will say that the majority of kids at their school receive some form of financial assistance, so it may not be as bad as I am fearing. I can talk to the school admin about it. Beyond school, it's veyy possible that we could not afford all the different activities.

What I still keep coming back to is the quality of experience. It's like we, as a family, have the opportunity to do a lot of things and have a variety of experiences, but the quality of those experiences is typically tinged with a lot of strife and difficulty interspersed with trickles of enjoyment. Life is so short. I just wonder if I am teaching my kids to be satisfied with the trickle when a few steps away, there is a steady stream of wholeness waiting to be drunk from. At least, to me, it felt very whole and satisfying to be with them this past week. Mind you, I was spent between working and transporting the kids to school and events, reading, baths, play time, relaxing time, meals, but I was not exhausted by it, if you know what I mean. I actually felt uplifted. 

[cloudten]

I think that the grass is always greener on the other side... .don't forget that.

If you were to separate or divorce... .it's not going to be like she is away at a pleasant writers conference for a week's vacation. It is going to be like she is right there, judging and breathing down your neck, with all of the negativity magnified ten fold. She will probably paint you black to your children in ways you have no way of fighting, and in ways you have no way of buffering. She will manipulate the children. She will manipulate you. She will manipulate the courts to the best of her ability. My friend, the grass is not greener.

I am witnessing this with a coworker who is in the midst of a very nasty divorce from a man with BPD. There are 3 boys involved. It is horrid, nasty, and evil.

divorce does not equal vacation. divorce doesn't necessarily equate to freedom.

I am a very happily divorced woman- but that is my own selfishness. it has done horrible things to my daughter and her sense of security and her anxiety.

My tip- send your wife away more often... .. Encourage her to attend another writers conference or go on sabbatical.

[vortex of confusion]

But it likely would change as one or both of us found new partners.

This is yet another element to consider. . .would you trust her to choose a partner that you would want around your kids? My husband doesn't exercise good judgment. I don't feel like I could trust him to find a new partner that I would want around my kids. And, as much as my husband annoys me, he is still the father of my children. I don't think I would ever trust another person to love these kids as much as he does. He may not be the parent that I would like him to be but I can't imagine trying to do the whole step parent thing. Not only that, but the process of trying to date will be more complicated when kids are involved. At what point do the kids get introduced to potential suitors? What if the kids like the person more than you do? What if you like somebody and the kids don't?

I have thought of all of these things.

It is really easy to romanticize life without my spouse because there are times when life is sometimes easier when he isn't around.

I just thought of something else. Who does the cleaning and the cooking and the shopping? I even took a look at that. Right now, if I want to go grocery shopping without the kids and he is home, I pick up and go. If he wasn't here, I would have to take the kids with me or arrange babysitting. If I need something from the store and I don't want to go, he will go for me.

All too often, it is rather easy to get caught up in thinking about the negatives like what my husband doesn't do. It helps to take a step back and look at what my partner does do that is positive. If we were to separate, I would have to do all of the things that I currently do plus all of the stuff that he does. And, I would have to do it while trying to manage on even more limited funds.

[takingandsending]

Hi cloudten.

I do consider those points. My wife is a fairly functional pwBPD. She certainly paints me black, and I don't expect that to stop. I am certain I would be vilified even more so if I initiated a divorce. And I harbor no illusions that I wouldn't still be co-parenting with her - that isn't going away.

When you state that you are happily divorced for selfish reasons, do you feel better in and of yourself than you did with your husband? Does that translate from you to your daughter? How did you feel as a mother while you were still in the relationship? Or, to put it another way, what has happened with your relationship with your daughter since you left - better or worse, closer or less close, more supportive or less supportive? Because it seems to me that my relationship with my children is suffering based on the heaviness/strain I feel in my marriage.

For what it's worth, this is not a decision I take lightly. I very much want to try to improve my own self care and self support so that I can be more buoyant and steady in the BPD storms. And the communication tools are helping take the intensity out of the storms, as well. I still have a lot of work to do on myself before I could reach this decision. I think, more than anything, it is eye opening to me to see just how big the BPD footprint is in our lives, how much I have adjusted, the kids have adjusted to dealing with my wife/their mom. We are being consumed by pet peeves, grudges and intolerance because that's our operating platform. I don't see that platform changing, ever, with my wife.

[cloudten]

All very very good observations and things to consider, VOC!

I am a single mom. I hate being a single mom. It is very very difficult, especially with younger kids. I don't have help in any way, shape, or form. I do it ALL myself. I do it with a happy heart, too. BUT- this isn't the way it is supposed to be. This isn't the way it works the best. Taxes, working, shopping, buying cars, buying houses, paying bills, taking care of the kids, laundry, cooking, cleaning, car maintenance, yard work, etc. all of it. ALL of it. it sucks. I am very very exhausted when I go to bed.

And the potential suitors... .BPD or not... .it is horrible!  If the kids get attached and the relationship doesn't work- it can literally send your children into therapy.

Dating SUCKS. I can't even tell you how bad it sucks. I am sure there are great people out there looking for a great person like me... .but there are 500 crappy people in front of them... .at least.

Being alone can SUCK... .and when you don't have the kids, you are ALONE.

Everything VOC said should absolutely be considered.

Another thing to think about: there are probably things about you that make you attracted to people like your wife. WHAT IF you leave her, don't address your own issues, and get involved with someone else and find out they have a PD. Then you are dealing with 2 people like her (I would say crazies- but I am trying to be respectful of people with this disorder)! I see it on here time and time again that people like us are BPD magnets.

[vortex of confusion]

Another thing to think about: there are probably things about you that make you attracted to people like your wife. WHAT IF you leave her, don't address your own issues, and get involved with someone else and find out they have a PD. Then you are dealing with 2 people like her (I would say crazies- but I am trying to be respectful of people with this disorder)! I see it on here time and time again that people like us are BPD magnets.

I can't agree with this more wholeheartedly.

My husband and I experimented with an open relationship for a short time. The person that I got involved with was a doozy. I learned a lot from it. In some ways that guy was healthier than my husband and in other ways he was worse. It was essentially different sides of the same coin. I don't trust myself to choose a healthy person. Until I get myself together and find a way to remove the BPD magnet, I feel like I am a whole lot safer with my husband than the alternatives.

[cloudten]

When you state that you are happily divorced for selfish reasons, do you feel better in and of yourself than you did with your husband? Does that translate from you to your daughter? How did you feel as a mother while you were still in the relationship? Or, to put it another way, what has happened with your relationship with your daughter since you left - better or worse, closer or less close, more supportive or less supportive? Because it seems to me that my relationship with my children is suffering based on the heaviness/strain I feel in my marriage.

For what it's worth, this is not a decision I take lightly. I very much want to try to improve my own self care and self support so that I can be more buoyant and steady in the BPD storms. And the communication tools are helping take the intensity out of the storms, as well. I still have a lot of work to do on myself before I could reach this decision. I think, more than anything, it is eye opening to me to see just how big the BPD footprint is in our lives, how much I have adjusted, the kids have adjusted to dealing with my wife/their mom. We are being consumed by pet peeves, grudges and intolerance because that's our operating platform. I don't see that platform changing, ever, with my wife.

UGH... .of course you would ask that.

Yes, I am a much better mother because of my divorce, in my opinion. Yes I feel better in and of myself than I did when I was married. I was a horrible bitter wretch of a person. I harbored so much anger and hatred in my heart. That is all gone now.

HOWEVER- this is my one caveat... .I am a non. My ex-husband is a non. He had ADHD, but no personality disorder. I am on here now because I am in a relationship with a pwBPD and staying for now.

If my divorce was from a pwBPD or another personality disorder, I am not at all convinced that I would have the "happily divorced" attitude that I have now.

But to answer your questions... .even though it's not an equal situation:

Yes, I feel better since my divorce.

Yes, it does translate to my daughter.

Yes, it has made me a much better mother (my pwBPD would disagree- i am a "joke" of a mother in his eyes)

My daughter and I are much closer (she is 6 years old). I am a happier person, therefore she is a happier person and our relationship is much happier.

I will say this though... .I am a very firm believer in raising her to be independent. I believe we are blessed with our children until they "leave and cleave" into their own relationship- then the relationship changes between us and our children. In a way- our children are not ours forever... .we have them on borrowed time - very important borrowed time.  However, our spouse is supposed to be our forever. Our spouse is supposed to be the one still there when the children have left the nest. Does that change when dealing with a pwBPD? probably. But I haven't been married to a pwBPD... .but I am sure it isn't easy on any level what-so-ever. I think our society is very much into children first. I agree to an extent, but I think sometimes children are made much more important to the extent the marriage is forgotten... .and it should really be the opposite in an ideal world. A marriage based on trust, mutual respect, and love will only strengthen and bolster the family unit and the children.

It is all very hard... .I would not want to be in your shoes. I fear it actually. I have a feeling I am about to get proposed to by my pwBPD- and I am not sure what I would say.

[cloudten]

Let me put it another way-

If I had to do it over again, I would have put myself into therapy before deciding on the marriage. I would have addressed my anger and bitterness issues. I probably would have tried to make myself the healthiest and happiest possible until she left the nest... .then at that point I would have decided what to do about the marriage.

[takingandsending]

cloudten and VOC,

I really appreciate your time today. It gives me a lot to consider. I have spent most of my time since learning about that my wife is BPD trying to understand my role in the relationship dynamics, and to understand how and why I am where I am right now. I have been seeing a T to help sort out my belief systems I developed with my FOO, and how to take the good from it and learn where and how I am weak. My two significant romantic relationships in my life were both with women that had a personality disorder. I don't believe in chance. Yes, I know that I am a magnet to attracting emotionally needy and weak people because it provides cover for my lack of self worth and confidence. In many ways, I am not certain that I want to be in another romantic relationship, and I don't mind being alone when I am alone. I meditate, I read, I write, I hike. I know all about loneliness, and I have chosen a marriage partner that leaves me feeling very lonely. Until I feel I like me, I am not likely to attract someone liking me. Until I care about me, I am not likely to attract someone caring about me.

But oddly enough, as I have been doing this inner work, and as I grow a little stronger in myself, I feel less interested in remaining. And when I see that things really do look different outside of the relationship than within it, that question of stay v. go becomes amplified. Does that resonate?

[vortex of confusion]

But oddly enough, as I have been doing this inner work, and as I grow a little stronger in myself, I feel less interested in remaining. And when I see that things really do look different outside of the relationship than within it, that question of stay v. go becomes amplified. Does that resonate?

Yes, that resonates with me. I have had some of those same feelings. It became so obvious how different/better I am when NOT around my husband when I got another job that allowed me to work outside of the house.

I don't have all of those warm fuzzy, but I love him feelings. I don't have any grand delusions that he and I will return to some magical, in love state.

What I do have is a firm grip on reality. I can be alone in or out of the relationship. For me, it is all about my kids. I see benefits to staying at this point in time. That doesn't mean that I can't change my mind later. That doesn't mean that I can't be working on myself in the background so that I can be me in or out of the relationship. I am trying to get to a point where I am no longer letting myself be defined by my relationship with my spouse. Does that make any sense? I can do all of this work whether I am in the relationship or not. Since there are financial and logistical benefits within the relationship, I am choosing to stay. When I keep my focus on the fact that this is a deliberate choice that I am making, it is a lot easier for me to navigate the sometimes tricky waters.

[takingandsending]

Makes sense and I agree. I know this is my choice. And I am also most interested in the well being of my kids, although I still do want my wife to do well and have happiness in her life. I do love her as a person. I think the one person that I least consider by staying, is myself. I am not in the bitterness and anger that cloudten was at, though I have my moments for certain. I just feel less happy, less elastic to handle what life brings when I am navigating the BPD waters. I simply am not trusting or relaxed enough to be myself with my wife anymore. Maybe I am still walking on eggshells, just doing it better. I hope not.

[takingandsending]

What I do have is a firm grip on reality. I can be alone in or out of the relationship. For me, it is all about my kids. I see benefits to staying at this point in time. That doesn't mean that I can't change my mind later. That doesn't mean that I can't be working on myself in the background so that I can be me in or out of the relationship. I am trying to get to a point where I am no longer letting myself be defined by my relationship with my spouse. Does that make any sense? I can do all of this work whether I am in the relationship or not. Since there are financial and logistical benefits within the relationship, I am choosing to stay. When I keep my focus on the fact that this is a deliberate choice that I am making, it is a lot easier for me to navigate the sometimes tricky waters.

Question, VOC: do you have any end game envisioned? I mean, is there a point in your mind where you think that the kids are no longer so vulnerable that you cut ties with your husband? I have talked with my T about this, and she believes that this is a reasonable approach, as long as I am working on myself and trying to remain open to my wife in doing so. I can see how damaging stonewalling is in a relationship, so I no longer engage in that defensiveness. I really have no desire to see anyone come to harm, but the warm fuzzies are gone for me, as you mentioned for yourself, and I don't really relish the thought of remaining for the sake of remaining. Just wondering if you have thought through to a certain cut off point or not.

[takingandsending]

Let me put it another way-

If I had to do it over again, I would have put myself into therapy before deciding on the marriage. I would have addressed my anger and bitterness issues. I probably would have tried to make myself the healthiest and happiest possible until she left the nest... .then at that point I would have decided what to do about the marriage.

cloudten, I just wanted to share with you something helpful my T has told me ... .particularly when I am beating myself up over my kids having a tough time. My T mentioned research done by John Gottman that showed that even if only one parent in a family is providing connection, safety, reassurance, love and healthy communication tools to a child, that child still has a high probability of developing the skills for a successful life and successful relationships of their own. It is when neither parent is providing and meeting the child's developmental needs that they will struggle. So, as long as you are there, in that positive, connected way for your daughter, even though she has hardships with her dad, she is getting what she needs from you to be able to stand on her own and thrive when the time comes. This is part of what spurred this thread. I want to make certain that I am providing and meeting my boys' needs in the best possible way I can. I know that either path I choose will have hardships for them and for me and for my wife - that's unavoidable. I just want to know that I am giving them the best of me that I can, and I don't know if that happens in or out of this marriage.

Never thought I would be here in this place. Oh joy, time to grieve a bit more and let go. <sigh>  :'(

[vortex of confusion]

Question, VOC: do you have any end game envisioned? I mean, is there a point in your mind where you think that the kids are no longer so vulnerable that you cut ties with your husband? I have talked with my T about this, and she believes that this is a reasonable approach, as long as I am working on myself and trying to remain open to my wife in doing so. I can see how damaging stonewalling is in a relationship, so I no longer engage in that defensiveness. I really have no desire to see anyone come to harm, but the warm fuzzies are gone for me, as you mentioned for yourself, and I don't really relish the thought of remaining for the sake of remaining. Just wondering if you have thought through to a certain cut off point or not.

I have been holding on to a 5 year plan. In 5 years, my youngest will be 11 and my oldest will be almost 19. And, some of our financial obligations, like the debt management program, will be fulfilled. In my mind, the worst case scenario is waiting until my youngest is 18. My end point is looking at when the kids would be able to handle things a bit better.

And, I know that I have some non-negotiables. If there were ever physical abuse towards me or the kids, I think that would pretty much make my decision for me. The verbal stuff is a bit more iffy. It if is out right nastiness with name calling and belittling, then I would have to seriously reconsider and think about leaving.

And, every once in a while, I do get an occasional warm fuzzy. I am not going to force the warm fuzzies but I sure as heck am trying to leave the door open to warm fuzzies. That is where the lessons help. It has taken me 17 years to get into this situation, I sure as heck not going to get out of it over night. It is going to take time.

[takingandsending]

Thanks, VOC. I told my T that I was looking at 6-7 years when my youngest would be 10 or 11. Great minds (or maybe BPD conditioned minds?) think alike.

[cloudten]

Sorry so late in answering... .its been a rough week- not with my BPD but with my folks.

What your T told you is exactly why I divorced when I did... .and I do believe that what your T says is 110% true.

My biggest hangup has been on the times I can't be the buffer with my ex, which is half the time.

Ideally, I would have been able to get myself to my healthy place where I am now where I am giving my daughter the very best of me, but then still been able to be that buffer at all times. I am sure it will get better as she gets older and can decide for herself who she would rather be with.

Also- when I chose divorce, my daughter was 3. I consulted one of my best friends who is a child psychologist- and he told me that if I was going to divorce, it was better at 3 than in the teenage years... .or to wait until she was at least 18-20.  I chose 3 because I was desperate. That makes me a very young divorced person which has its own stigma. Anyway- I would consult your T on what the best age for your children would be to handle a D.

It does sound like you are very burned out. I feel for you. 

[cloudten]

One last thought----

My exhusband is a NON. I can't imagine divorcing a pwBPD and having to deal with child custody and such with the BPD in the picture. Pretty sure that is why there is a whole legal board here. Everyone tells me to run. I don't want to live my life without him- but I am sure scared as hell to live it with him... .because I don't want to end up in your shoes down the road. I don't want to be divorced twice.