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Author Topic: Tired of being lied to and let down...  (Read 430 times)
Ceruleanblue
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« on: June 16, 2015, 09:29:15 AM »

As the intro says, I'm tired of being lied to, and let down. By let down, I mean BPDh will promise something, we'll reach a compromise or have agreed to some action, only to have him back down. Of course, he holds me to much higher standards, and I always try to fulfill my promises, because of the price I'd pay if I didn't. Plus, it's just in my nature to do what I say I will.

How do you get to the point where you stay in the relationship, but have zero expectations? Believe me, my expectations are super low, and he doesn't even meet those. I get zero loyalty(he let's his grown girls divide/conquer, speak badly of me, not allow me), he lies, compromise is near impossible(and then he backs out), and everything in our lives is about HIM, HIM, HIM.

I get most of my emotional needs met either by my Mom or a girlfriend I have, so I think I'm doing what most here suggest, not rely on BPDh for that. Now, I wouldn't have been let down if I hadn't asked something of him. Do I just never ask anything of him? That is what it seems to be coming down to.

How do I feel better about having what to me feels like a super, super abnormal marriage? To me, this doesn't feel like a marriage, it feels like I'm his activity partner, and convenience. It's all him, all the time. I know lots of us here deal with this, but how did you get to a place where it doesn't feel awful and starts to feel like a marriage? I get that marriages are not really 50/50, but the balance is so off in our marriage that I don't even feel married in the true sense.

Some of you seem happy in your marriages, how did you get there?
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Oooohm
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 11:37:41 AM »

CB,

For me it came down to me taking a hard look at wether my own "requirements" were "needs"... .or "wants".

The harder I looked and the more I worked on myself I realized I was classifying "wants" as "needs".

Once I stopped doing that I realized I don't really have any "Needs" besides food and shelter.

Interesting thing happened... .  I stopped sub-consciously displaying my dissatisfaction towards un-fullfilled "wants" and my wife (Over years) starting doing better at a lot of it with out the pressure of my dissatisfaction.
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2015, 10:54:24 AM »

I don't think I'm confusing wants with needs. I certainly don't feel I'm having high standards for him. Maybe that's the issue? I have very few expectations, and he still lets me down. How do you live with having zero expectations of someone. This is where I keep getting hung up. I'm expected to do so much: he wanted us to experiment with bondage(just him and I), I went along... .researched/bought toys, the whole bit, he wanted us to ride motorcycles, we bought bikes and took lessons. All these things sort of outside MY comfort zone, but I gave it a good try. And the more I do for him, the more he wants. He needs constant stimulation. It's all DO, DO, DO.

I get that I can get my needs met elsewhere, and I do, but it still just feels SAD, for lack of a better word. I want SOME of my emotional needs, filled by him. Or for him to be my MAN and protect me when others are being blatantly awful to me(or at least allow me to stand up for myself... .something he doesn't "allow".

I need to find the right attitude or head space where I can just write off having what I consider a "normal" marriage. I know a lot of people here have managed to stay married, and they don't seem to be struggling with this as much. I need to find a way to be less hurt or resentful about doing my best, and getting so little back. It's like BPDh knows what I need(I like small gifts, like M&Ms or a bookmark, or regular date nights) to feel loved, but he'll adamantly refuse to do it, but he'll do those things for his daughters. I get to see him doing for others what I so crave.
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2015, 12:01:30 PM »

  I get to see him doing for others what I so crave.

Ceruleanblue,

I suspect that this will resolve itself as he continues in MC... and you "appropriately" keep shining the light on this.

I also suspect it will take a while... .

FF
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Oooohm
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2015, 03:16:32 PM »

It's like BPDh knows what I need(I like small gifts, like M&Ms or a bookmark, or regular date nights) to feel loved, but he'll adamantly refuse to do it, but he'll do those things for his daughters. I get to see him doing for others what I so crave.

I know what you mean... .  Same here. In the past my wife couldn't deal with the pressure of trying to make me happy... .Fear of failure... .fear of me leaving her if it wasn't good enough... .IDK.  So she wouldn't even try. At the same time she required SO, SO much effort from me for her happiness.

Slowly (with a lot of work on my part) over time, I was able to convince her that she was not "responsible" for my happiness. "wants" vs. "needs". No disappointment.   "I am responsible for my own happiness". Took the pressure off her I guess.

2 things happened:

1. She slowly stopped requiring so much from me.

2. She started enjoying my positive reaction to little things she started doing for me... .almost became a game for her... ."What can I do for him next?"

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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2015, 11:47:56 PM »

Yeah, I tell him quite often that we are both responsible for our own happiness. It's not up to me to make him happy, or vice versa. I don't need him to do these things for my overall happiness, but I do feel I need to feel loved. These are things that would make ME feel loved. I know a lot of people tend to love others the way they themselves want to be loved(I tended to do that prior to learning about love languages), but he doesn't even do that.

I'm hoping that this gets resolved, or improves slightly due to MC. I'd love for him to end up trying like Ooohm's wife did, but he's so resistant, and stubborn, that it's hard for me to think he will. My guess is he feels "controlled" by me asking anything of him. I rave about any time he does do something even slightly nice for me, hoping he'll catch on.
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« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 01:33:46 AM »

long road and hard along the way but stay strong we are here for you

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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 06:00:44 AM »

What do you take for yourself?

What can you get out of this relationship that you may not elsewhere?

In short what is your payoff?

If you are expected to do most things then ensure that you have control of those things and are not just a pair of hands for him. If you have to organize something then what happens is your choice. If you have to do all the shopping then it is your choice as to what is in the house. If you are expected to do a task, it is your choice when and what order it is done in. In other words being in control that is your payoff.

Constantly trying to force a square peg in a round hole will drive you nuts.

Your fear is enabling him to be dysfunctional
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 12:52:48 PM »

Waverider:

You are right. I do have fear. Fear of him leaving, which is crazy as I'm the non. I was previously married for 18 years, and he walked out unexpectedly(he had his own set of anger issues, and I think sexual identity issues), and it left me with some fear of abandonment. Plus, our family is very Christian, and divorce is frowned upon, and I have a "try or die trying mentality". I just always think there is an answer for most things, unless someone is truly crazy. BPDh isn't crazy, he's just dysfunctional, and has anger(basically BPD/NPD).

I'm sort of even afraid to take charge of things like groceries because he always tells me we are "broke". He makes really good money, but he is the worst money manager I've ever known. My FOO are savers, he comes from a long line of living one paycheck to paycheck. I've tried to ask about setting a budget, but he never wants to. He refuses also to get rid of all the excess stuff we have from merging households. We pay storage unit fees, on stuff we'll never use. I just don't get it.

So do you think I just take charge and grocery shop, get rid of stuff we don't use? He'll probably get angry, but I don't think he'd leave me over something that small. I just do all I can to not set him off. I'm coming to resent that though.

I think my payoff is being able to say I hung in there, and that things are now a lot better. I hate, hate, hate giving up. I realize some situations are so bad people have to, but I just saw some potential in us.

It is hard right now to see what I get out of this r/s that I couldn't get elsewhere, but I'm sure there are some things. I'm sick of being the rescuer, and didn't know when we were dating that I'd be in that role. ALL his behaviors came out after we married. He knows how duped I feel, but he also knows how much I want this to work. I think you are right, this allows him to continue to be dysfunctional, even though I now have some boundaries. Maybe I need to up my boundaries, and take on more, even if it angers him?
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 02:19:56 PM »

It is hard right now to see what I get out of this r/s that I couldn't get elsewhere, but I'm sure there are some things. I'm sick of being the rescuer, and didn't know when we were dating that I'd be in that role.

I don't know how to say this without it coming across as invalidating. Stop being the rescuer. Seriously, stop it. What are you getting out of being the rescuer?

Excerpt
He knows how duped I feel, but he also knows how much I want this to work. I think you are right, this allows him to continue to be dysfunctional, even though I now have some boundaries. Maybe I need to up my boundaries, and take on more, even if it angers him?

I think you might think about ways to up the boundaries. You have said right here that he knows how much you want this to work. You have put yourself in a position where he knows that you will do whatever it takes to make the relationship work. Why should he do more? He knows that you will come along and rescue him or try to fix things because you want this relationship so bad. Up the boundaries. Up your standards. Let him deal with his own anger. Are you afraid that he will physically abuse you if he gets mad? What does it look like when he gets angry? I had to seriously look at that. When my husband gets angry, he can be loud and brash and act like a petulant child. It is difficult to see and I would rather not deal with it but it is not dangerous and I am not in danger of getting hurt.
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SurfNTurf
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 05:52:46 PM »

My mother, married to my BPD father for 50 years,( and now I'm married to a BPDh) gave me this advice before she died: Never expect anything from them and you will never be disappointed.

Prior to my marriage, my BPDh was so busy ingratiating himself with me, fulfilling every whim during courtship, that I was really surprised to find after the I-Do's were said he doesn't do much of anything that I would like him to do. Little acts of kindness stopped. Larger household chores stopped.

I have to take care of me. I would have to take care of me if he were not in the picture. The payoff for me, staying with him, is that I don't have to put either of us in the position of going in to old age in the position of financially starting over. If he wants to leave, that's okay, but I'm not initiating it.

He still extends all warmth, kindness and caring for his daughter, because he holds her purse strings and she lets him. He  has zero contact with his son, b/c the son won't be controlled/manipulated.

It all boils down to you taking care of you. I was in your position once, finding despair with my marriage. Then I realized he was controlling that despair. Then I realized, if I lived without him, I'd have to take care of my own well being, and that's what I do now. For me, it was a little like grieving, b/c I experienced a loss without the person actually being gone, but when I got thru the stages of grief, I found I can take care of my own well being. Just like I did b4 I married him.

You take care of you. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2015, 12:22:00 PM »

BPDh has gotten physical with me a few times. His anger/rages can be scary. His anger has gotten a lot better since he's been in DBT, however. I don't think I'm getting anything out of being the rescuer(which I'm trying hard not to be). I think it was more a thing I did for survival, and an effort towards peace.

I am actively trying to take care of me even thought it feels selfish to me. He certainly doesn't mind being emotionally selfish, so I don't know why I feel that way.

At least for the first time in our marriage, I can see effort on his part, and his behaviors as far as anger have improved. I'm just scared to hope that this will be a permanent change.

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« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2015, 10:44:11 PM »

I'm hoping that this gets resolved, or improves slightly due to MC. 

Ceruleanblue,

How is this going for you?

FF
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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 01:24:39 AM »

Marriage therapy seems to be helping a little. I think the most help has come from BPDH's DBPT therapy, and his meds.

MC seems to be a place where BPDh brings up things that I've already apologized for, and that he knows I'm currently working on. That feels pretty unfair. I only bring up things that I've already addressed with BPDh, and feel he's not actively working on. The thing I brought up in this session was how BPDh has had an ongoing pattern of hurting me during sex. Intentionally. He seems to get off that way. I'm not sure our therapist believes me. He kept saying that sex is primal, and stuff like that, but he did eventually say that men need to watch their own strength. Yeah, the issue I feel is that BPDh does it on purpose, so I'm sure that will promptly be ignored.

I'm not even sure how I can set a boundary around painful sex. It isn't the actual sex, it's almost always his hands hurting me during sex. He will dig his fingers into me, or push me down using force.

Should I call a halt during sex when he does this? I've told him that he's hurting me, but then he loses his erection, which sort of tells me his release and being turned on is tied to him inflicting pain.

He'll say he doesn't want to hurt me, but then it will happen again. Words lie, but actions don't. Things are better on the whole, but the selfish, or painful sex is getting old.
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« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2015, 06:51:35 AM »

Marriage therapy seems to be helping a little. I think the most help has come from BPDH's DBPT therapy, and his meds.

Good... .

How do you feel about the future?  Compared to say... .3-4 months ago?


I'm not even sure how I can set a boundary around painful sex. It isn't the actual sex, it's almost always his hands hurting me during sex. He will dig his fingers into me, or push me down using force.

Should I call a halt during sex when he does this? I've told him that he's hurting me, but then he loses his erection, which sort of tells me his release and being turned on is tied to him inflicting pain.

OK... .not sure of size differential here.  In my r/s... .I more than double my wife's size.  If I do something that hurts... .I can get an idea based on her reaction... .a playful "pat" with a word or sound that means careful is kinda a warning. 

It goes up from there.

We have had many clear conversations about this over the years... .yet... .sometimes it happens... .both ways that there is some pain inflicted.  For me... .the key seems to be what happens after a complaint.  Hopefully you can keep talking to your hubby and get him to the point of trying to sooth and make up for it... .be gentler.[/quote]
He'll say he doesn't want to hurt me, but then it will happen again. Words lie, but actions don't. Things are better on the whole, but the selfish, or painful sex is getting old.

How often to you guys have sex the way you want to?  Maybe more importantly... .can you have conversations about sex and express yourself.

Last thought for now... .

I wouldn't read much into "why" your hubby looses... .or gets an erection.  If curious... ask... .please don't suggest reasons...

FF
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2015, 12:06:55 AM »

We are able to talk about sex usually without him dysregulating. I've never asked him why he will lose his erection, I guess because I know he has ED, and I just write it off as that.

And we never seem to have sex the way I want to. It's always what he wants. Just tonight, he got mad when we were on the bed messing around, and he got up and barged off! Apparently I wasn't taking it seriously enough, and was not making the appropriate porn noises. Why can't we ever wrestle playfully, or playfully joke when we have sex? That would be something I would love, and frankly miss. If I try to tell BPDh that, wait, I did try after he barged off, and he just got angry at me.

I realize in any physical activity, either partner can accidentally get hurt, but he's actually told me that pain can be pleasurable. Well, I don't feel that way, and it's funny that he wouldn't want me using the whip on HIM, or trying to dominate him. He said that doesn't turn him on, just him being dominant does(and apparently hurting me).

We are not far off in physical size. I'm tall at 5'8", and average weight, and he is 6' and average, but with a belly. I'm not being hurt due to size difference, I think I'm being hurt because he enjoys it that way. It's not all the time, but way too frequent to be an accident, and I can tell that it actually turns him on.

We've talked about it, and I even brought it up in MC, but our therapist is a guy, and he totally believed BPDh's lie about "I don't mean or want to hurt you". I don't believe it.

Also, I feel a lot better about us than I did 3-4 months ago. For a while there, his DBT therapy seemed to be keeping things stirred up. Now, on the whole, things are better. I'm thankful for that, but I sure wish he'd just be happier, and also that the our sex life wasn't so weird.
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2015, 07:29:19 AM »

And we never seem to have sex the way I want to. It's always what he wants. Just tonight, he got mad when we were on the bed messing around, and he got up and barged off! 

Ever try to "make a date" to have things the way you want?  I would offer up a date to him after that... .for his fantasy?

FF
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2015, 04:25:00 PM »

FF:

I'm confused. Why would I want to make a date to meet HIS fantasy when that is all I've been doing for the last six months? I'm fed up with doing everything, including sex, HIS way. Are you saying do a date for my fantasy, then his?

I'm just fed up with him being so terribly narcissistic and ungiving emotionally and sexually. I'm done continuing to meet his needs while mine go neglected. I have a really strong hunch that he won't meet my needs because he feels controlled. He tends to always feel controlled. We were listening to a radio show with a licensed therapist, and the caller described a husband very much like mine. The T said he looks for "control" because he had a controlling parent. What she said made a lot of sense. I'm sure there is a reason BPDh is afraid of being controlled, and needs lots of control himself, but I've let it go way, way too far.

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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2015, 04:34:35 PM »

FF:

I'm confused. Why would I want to make a date to meet HIS fantasy when that is all I've been doing for the last six months? I'm fed up with doing everything, including sex, HIS way. Are you saying do a date for my fantasy, then his?

Yes... .

You get yours... .then he gets his.

The important and new thing in the equation is that you get yours.

Now... .be ready... he may scoff at this... who knows.  Then... .flow into "help me understand how I get my needs met... "... .or something like that

The ultimate goal is that you both have a pathway to enjoy your sexual relationship... .in a way that you both enjoy.

 

I totally realize that the r/s feels one sided... .and you would most likely (I'm guessing... .) rather just have it your way for a while... .

Remember... .you are the non... .you need to show leadership in what a healthy r/s looks and feels like.  The part of this that I would hold fast on... .is that in your proposal... .your get your date night first... .

Thoughts?
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