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Author Topic: One more shot  (Read 682 times)
maxsterling
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« on: June 16, 2015, 04:50:37 PM »

After some consideration the past few days, I've decided to give things one more shot.

My first step was deciding that yes I don't like the abuse and do not need to put up with unacceptable behavior, but for the time being I feel safe and not helpless. 

Step two was recognizing I still have feelings for her.  That's been apparent the past two days.

Step three is to do my best to understand things from her point of view. 

So my feeling is this - I work on myself, some issues within me I now recognize.  Not necessarily "bad" issues, but issues that certainly do not help the relationship dynamic.  I need to do this regardless of the path I ultimately choose regarding the r/s.  The "issues" I am talking about are being closed off with my feelings, being fearful, and coping through withdrawing. 

Then I just see where things go.   
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2015, 06:09:17 PM »

Wishing you good luck on your journey, Max. I know how much thought and effort you are putting into staying open. 
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2015, 06:13:29 PM »

Good luck!
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2015, 06:18:51 PM »

Good luck and keep us posted. 
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2015, 06:48:41 PM »

Hey Max!

Are you maintaining your resources?  Still in contact with T?  With men's abuse organization?

I have been in abusive relationships.  As much as I do not like to admit it... .one partner of mine escalated to the point of me fearing for my life.  I ended up calling my T who referred me to a woman's shelter.  I even left the shelter after two weeks to go back to my partner, hoping things would be different.  Things got so bad that as he was raging, I was trying to think of a way to drug him, grinding up sleeping Tylenol into his soda... .but the damn coating was floating in the drink!  I ended up at the hospital with a doctor documenting my injuries.  

Max, I was not me.  I do not know who I was.  This sounds crazy, but as I was even in the hospital, I was embarrassed to be complaining about some minor bruises and minor cuts when I know women who "really" are abused have had broken ribs and worse.  I believe I had a version of Stockholm syndrome that was never diagnosed to me.  I sat there in disbelief realizing that the doctor was being so kind and attentive to my minor cuts and I had no idea why he took such time to do such paperwork for me.  It was because he had hope... .that I would build a case... .a paper trail... .and get an OOP.  I... .had no hope for me, myself... .other than I knew nothing else than being with him.  I would have still gone back... .as I stopped caring at all for myself... .my self esteem must have been non existent.  I left the hospital... .was directed to and walked to a courthouse for OOP... .I walked out and asked someone to tell me now where do I go?  Where do I live?  Etc... .

Anyway... .long story short... .

Had I not got "sick" from morning sickness of discovering I was pregnant, I am certain I would have gone back.  Then I was separated enough from him to be able to feel serious fear. (Underneath the never ending love) Not fear for me.  I had no care for me still.  I was in fear he would hurt me and kill my baby.  Then after my baby was born, I was in fear he would harm him still.

Had I not got pregnant, I believe I would not be alive today. (Given the rate/pace of escalations... .times I was able to escape vs times unable)

I am not sure why I am telling you this.

It is obviously my story, not yours, not anyone else's.  We all have a different story... .and all of us have infinite paths that our story can follow.

It may not be my place to say... .

You or anyone else can feel I'm projecting... .and I'm certain that it is partly true... .I'm sorry for that.

I just wish... . I really really wish... . My T who saw me going down that path was so pained and tortured watching me reassure her I was ok, in control, a bit more safe now.

I wish there was SOMETHING... .SOMEONE could have done to shake me and make me see clearer!

Unfortunately... . The reality of the brainwashing and trauma my mind was in... .

I do not believe there was anything anyone could have said to convince me differently.

What did however speak to me... .

Were the moments of kindness by others who could reach me... .

That doctor, who took meticulous notes that day.  (He cared about me more than I could for myself)

That lady in the courthouse who helped translate my words into something that the judge would hear.

Having perfect strangers care... .made me notice.  Seeing compassion in their faces made me see that I might be important.

I think I'll end on that note Max.  I hope for you a path that helps you be the most MAxsterling there is to be.
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« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2015, 07:21:52 PM »

Max, I have seen you in,  "I'm going to give it one more shot". mental state several times before.  I am praying for you.  I am hoping that it is not yet another merry go around.

God Bless.
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2015, 07:31:34 PM »

max, can you practice in your mind exactly what happens the next time you're hit? So that it's as automatic as a military operation?
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2015, 07:46:50 PM »



"closed off from feelings"--If you share your feelings, you will face her rage and possible violence

"being fearful"--Who wouldn't be fearful of setting off your wife and dealing with her screaming, verbal abuse, and physical violence?

"coping through withdrawing"--It's called walking on eggshells. 

My daughter has a good friend who is married to a verbally and physically abusive man.  He is manipulative and a narcissist.  They have two children together who have witnessed some terrible things.  A month ago after he spit in her face, poured a beer on her head, and knocked her down she had had enough.  Or so we thought.  Now she is saying she is part of the problem and is reading articles given to her by her husband to prove this point.  They're "starting over" and she is saying she is going to make it work.  I thought about her today when I read this post. 

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« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2015, 08:29:54 PM »

max, can you practice in your mind exactly what happens the next time you're hit? So that it's as automatic as a military operation?

I like this reference... .my hope is that you can also rehearse in your head what will be done next time she rages at you... .and do it.

Still important to know exactly what you will do when hit

That doesn't mean you will be hit.

But... .I knew exactly what I would do if my airplane ever did... .fill in blank... .very important.

FF
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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2015, 09:03:49 PM »

max, can you practice in your mind exactly what happens the next time you're hit? So that it's as automatic as a military operation?

I like this reference... .my hope is that you can also rehearse in your head what will be done next time she rages at you... .and do it.

Still important to know exactly what you will do when hit

That doesn't mean you will be hit.

But... .I knew exactly what I would do if my airplane ever did... .fill in blank... .very important.

FF

Exactly!  "Muscle memory."
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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2015, 11:51:20 PM »

Good luck, Max!

I think that you are doing the right thing.

If I thought that you were in any danger from her, I wouldn't say that.

She is an intelligent woman and I believe that she loves you.

Hang in there! I hope that your relationship stabilizes after this rough patch.

Utilize the techniques; they really help.

It happened for my uBPDh and me. We have never been happier.
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2015, 05:27:07 AM »

Ensure this is not open ended without any structure and limitations, otherwise you will cycle back to the beginning again
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2015, 06:14:52 AM »

 

Max,

I believe in you.  You are there and seem to be considering lots of options... .you have a local support network and are building on that.  You have bpdfamily.

I would join waverider to encourage you to think through structure... .

Make sure your different options lead forward (you get to define forward... .)

FF
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2015, 08:50:45 AM »

you have a local support network and are building on that. 

This is a pretty pioneering thing you've accomplished, and it might be valuable to other members of BPD Family--especially the men--if you can report here on how that is working for you as you go along.

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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2015, 09:57:08 AM »

Thanks everyone. 

Interestingly, right after I posted this, we had a MC session.  And it was same old story, her being negative to anything I said on the car ride over, blaming me, etc.   Yikes.  And MC session was more of the same, which eventually led to MC getting to the root of the problem - it's really not me.  It was one of those sessions where if a trained psychologist listened to any 10-minute snippet, could immediately diagnose BPD.

Anyway, afterwards I thought things were a little better, so I asked if it was okay to sleep in the same bed.  Initially she said yes, but then she wanted me in the other room (and blamed me for asking in the first place).

Like I said, one more shot.  I wouldn't be taking this chance if it were not for my support network. 
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2015, 10:22:50 AM »

 And MC session was more of the same, which eventually led to MC getting to the root of the problem - it's really not me.  

Can you expand on this... .what was said... how it went... .etc etc.


FF
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2015, 10:25:58 AM »

Max, what about her demands at the MC session before the one last night?  Are you agreeable to those demands?  No calling the police again, no birth control, no contact with the friends who took you in after she assaulted you? 
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« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2015, 10:59:21 AM »

My BPDh does that emotional withdrawing from me, and it drives me crazy, and I'm the non. He's either totally withdrawn and punishing me, or he's raging and in my face. Neither is healthy, nor pleasant.

I'm sure that your withdrawal is triggering her. It triggers me, and I don't have BPD. It must be much worse if you do, because they have such issue with regulating their emotions.

Don't be too hard on yourself though. We all have ways to cope with BPD, and yours was withdrawal. I've tried so many different ways to deal with BPDh, some effective, some not.

I think you are at least making this decision to give it a try with eyes wide open. Keep us posted, because it is a journey. Hugs Max, I'm rooting for you.
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2015, 11:24:47 AM »

Max, what about her demands at the MC session before the one last night?  Are you agreeable to those demands?  No calling the police again, no birth control, no contact with the friends who took you in after she assaulted you? 

All were discussed during MC.  My reply to the police thing - "I don't want that to happen again", to which the MC followed up with me regarding that I have control whether that happens or not, to which I said "yes".  My feeling here is that just because I want to try one more time does not mean this is forever.  Birth control - not an issue ATM, because she does not even want me to touch her.  But with her new job, I think this is something we can discuss if and when we both get back on the same page regarding the r/s.  Still could be a huge deal breaker.  Regarding my friends, MC directly asked her if it was okay if I remained in contact with those friends, and W said that was fine. 


FF- regarding your question, MC directed the conversation such that W's complaints about me turned into complaints of feeling lonely with herself, issues with self image, issues maintaining friendships in general.  Basically, the conversation exposed the black and white thinking, and exposed that W's current issues with me are part of a much broader problem that I cannot solve. 
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2015, 05:48:03 PM »

Well, she got a contract.  A decent salary for a teacher in my state.  She still worries so much about money.  Actually, she OBSESSES rather than worry, as even if she was given $100k I doubt it would change much.  Somehow, she is entering some kind of "trial work period" where she is allowed to work and still collect disability.  Reality is, should that happen, and she be able to maintain this job, many of her money issues go bye-bye very quickly. 

And believe it or not part of the reason I consider giving things "one more shot" is because of how quickly she went out and found a job.  That tells me 1) she is capable of taking care of herself, and I need that in order for this r/s to function, 2) changed behaviors on my part may result in an ugly extinction burst, but ultimately may lead to positive change.  Honestly, until this week, I thought she was completely incapable.  But now I know she is.  From my vantage point, me calling police a few weeks ago led her to think about the need to take care of herself and not be dependent on me.  Calling Police = boundary enforcement > her feeling her living situation is unstable > needs to take care of herself > finds a job.  Of course, she would never admit to it that way (right now she is still mad and I am still black).

Regarding my previous dilemma of "flowers", I decided that rather than flowers I would give her a congratulatory gift that is less loaded - three books to help re-start her classroom library.

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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2015, 08:02:05 AM »

Well, she got a contract.  A decent salary for a teacher in my state.  She still worries so much about money.  Actually, she OBSESSES rather than worry, as even if she was given $100k I doubt it would change much.  Somehow, she is entering some kind of "trial work period" where she is allowed to work and still collect disability.  Reality is, should that happen, and she be able to maintain this job, many of her money issues go bye-bye very quickly. 

And believe it or not part of the reason I consider giving things "one more shot" is because of how quickly she went out and found a job.  That tells me 1) she is capable of taking care of herself, and I need that in order for this r/s to function, 2) changed behaviors on my part may result in an ugly extinction burst, but ultimately may lead to positive change.  Honestly, until this week, I thought she was completely incapable.  But now I know she is.  From my vantage point, me calling police a few weeks ago led her to think about the need to take care of herself and not be dependent on me.  Calling Police = boundary enforcement > her feeling her living situation is unstable > needs to take care of herself > finds a job.  Of course, she would never admit to it that way (right now she is still mad and I am still black).

Regarding my previous dilemma of "flowers", I decided that rather than flowers I would give her a congratulatory gift that is less loaded - three books to help re-start her classroom library.

Good for her.  That will definitely help and good gift idea!
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2015, 11:03:08 AM »

Birth control - not an issue ATM, because she does not even want me to touch her.

"At the moment" maybe she doesn't but when that changes, then what?  At what point do you tell her you are not willing to have a child with her?  This issue is HUGE for her and has triggered violence recently. 
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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2015, 11:12:51 AM »

Birth control - not an issue ATM, because she does not even want me to touch her.

"At the moment" maybe she doesn't but when that changes, then what?  At what point do you tell her you are not willing to have a child with her?  This issue is HUGE for her and has triggered violence recently. 

I have no answer for that, other than right now I will take things day to day.
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2015, 11:17:21 AM »

Birth control - not an issue ATM, because she does not even want me to touch her.

"At the moment" maybe she doesn't but when that changes, then what?  At what point do you tell her you are not willing to have a child with her?  This issue is HUGE for her and has triggered violence recently. 

I don't think the matter is as unambiguous as that. Max does indeed want a child. Like many men, he doesn't experience the "baby hunger" that his wife feels more directly. This is part of what scares him about his wife.

I would just hope that she stops taking medications like Xanax that are not safe for pregnancy if and when they try for a baby. But I do hope that there will be a little Max or Maxine one day soon.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2015, 11:45:55 AM »

Birth control - not an issue ATM, because she does not even want me to touch her.

"At the moment" maybe she doesn't but when that changes, then what?  At what point do you tell her you are not willing to have a child with her?  This issue is HUGE for her and has triggered violence recently. 

I don't think the matter is as unambiguous as that. Max does indeed want a child. Like many men, he doesn't experience the "baby hunger" that his wife feels more directly. This is part of what scares him about his wife.

Yes, that's basically it.  My desire for a child is of course different than my W, biologically, emotionally, and in probably every way.   But I do have that desire, and my wife's behavior over the past few months has not made that desire go away. It's not that I don't want to have a child with my wife, because if that were the case I would not be giving it "one more shot".  My challenge is to communicate with her that I still want a child, but I need things to feel more stable than they have been lately (namely, less violence, and I need to see *her* commitment to marriage - after all, just two days ago she was proclaiming getting married as a "big mistake"

I was literally as close as I could get to ending the whole thing with an order of protection just two weeks ago. Had she been home, I would be on the "leaving" board right now. But last night I was thinking, the reason I did not serve the OOP was because I did not want to say "goodbye" that way.  Yes, she was nasty for me for days, but that first MC session afterwards went well enough that I saw her as a person.

I would just hope that she stops taking medications like Xanax that are not safe for pregnancy if and when they try for a baby. But I do hope that there will be a little Max or Maxine one day soon.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2015, 12:35:39 PM »

Excerpt
(namely, less violence, and I need to see *her* commitment to marriage - after all, just two days ago she was proclaiming getting married as a "big mistake"

?
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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2015, 02:26:47 PM »

Excerpt
(namely, less violence, and I need to see *her* commitment to marriage - after all, just two days ago she was proclaiming getting married as a "big mistake"

?

yeah, this was in MC.  A typical rant for her, and one where her actions do not match her words.  So, she will rant about being tied down to me now, being tied down to this place, and tied down to marriage, MC will try to get her to see it's not about me and marriage and it is about something deeper for her, and end result is W still acts like she can't live without me.  Or she may rant about making a mistake by getting married, and half an hour later talk about how we are going to celebrate our anniversary.  Classic "I hate you, don't leave me."

But I need to hear the words agree with the actions to feel stable. 
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« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2015, 02:40:58 PM »

Max what does "less violence" mean ?

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« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2015, 03:45:20 PM »

Max what does "less violence" mean ?

Realistically, I can't expect the violence thing to change overnight, or probably ever go away completely - especially when considering violent language as violent.  I think that will always be an element in my wife's personality.  By "less violence" I mean a recognition on the part of my wife what the definition of "violence" is, that violence is harmful, and that she is taking steps to try other approaches to conflict besides violence.  I haven't decided where an appropriate boundary here is, yet.  Slamming doors out of frustration every now and then?  Getting frustrated and cursing and slamming her computer shut?    I think those are things that many people do occasionally.  So somewhere between the occasional door slam and the hitting needs to be a boundary.
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« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2015, 03:50:18 PM »

Excerpt
So somewhere between the occasional door slam and the hitting needs to be a boundary.

Is this something the folks here can help you talk out loud and help sort out here?
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