validation does not work

[Emar808]

Hi all. I am in a relationship with a BPD person. It surfaced after a few months. I read that validation is key but when I try to use it during the rages, it makes them angrier. They accuse me of being condescending and using shrink speak. During these rages I am bad and have all of these faults that they put up with. The faults are no big deal until the rages. Then they are a huge deal. They say they do everything and sacrifice so much and I am unappreciative. Validation only makes them angrier. My only option is retreat until it blows over. Which could be hours to overnight to a full day. Anyone else experience this?

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[scoutshonor]

Yep. Thats the cycle. Thats what i deal with.

[Skip]

I think many look at validation too mechanically and too acutely - in the immediate term. I think it helps to look at it and manage it over time. For example, if my wife has reoccurring insecurities about me cheating, its a "tell" that I need, in general, to make her feel more adored and maybe be more transparent.  

This is approach to validation tends to work better, deeper.  It's more effective.  And I can tailor it to feel right for me - not compromising.

There will still be bursts from time to time, and in the context of a broader validation effort, the goal is to do what is best to help the burst extinguish.  It might be a hug with "cupcake, I could never love anyone but you", it might be an attempted hug with a refusal and then just giving her space (without attitude), it might be showing a receipt that shows you were at the batting cage with the boys, it might be a joke, it might be to be vulnerable and say "that really hurts my feelings because I care so much about you", it might be getting indignant.  Using all of these over time is good. Mixing it up is good.

The problem with "I'm sorry you feel that I... ." is that, if its not delivered right, or it is delivered too many times, your partner will here  "I'm sorry your nuts and think that you need my condescending pity".

So, what do you fight about?

Skip

P.S. No, I would not call her cupcake 

Validation - Think long term

[whitebackatcha]

My uBPDgf is the same way with validation. The only thing she has consistently not reacted to is when I have just said, "Okay." I am constantly validating her when there isn't conflict, so that isn't an issue. I'm interested to hear what others say about this topic!

[Skip]

My only option is retreat until it blows over. Which could be hours to overnight to a full day. Anyone else experience this?

When someone is dysregulated, this is your only practical option.  Have you read about extinction bursts?

So what do we do?   When the person with Borderline Personality Disorder becomes dysregulated or depressed. bpdfamily.com recommends that you give them the space to self sooth - not try to do it for them.  Take a deep breath and politely and non-aggressively disengage. It’s not easy to block out the distraction and emotional pleas for our attention, yet it is only with a critical pause that we can really stay on a constructive and healthy pathway.


This act is called extinction. We essentially remove our reinforcement in an attempt to stop the  behavior. We simply stop rewarding the behavior.

When our partner doesn’t get the expected response (reinforcement by us) it may scare or anger them and they may try harder to  engage us using threats, violence, destruction, intimidation, name calling, belittling, promises of withholding necessary things, retaliation, or any other painful thing they can think of to get us to engage.   This escalation is know as an extinction burst.


Extinction Burst - The term extinction burst describes the phenomena of behavior temporarily getting worse, not better, when the reinforcement stops.

Spontaneous Recovery - Behavior affected by extinction is apt to recur in the future when the trigger is presented again. This is known as spontaneous recovery or the transient increase in behavior. Be aware of this eventuality. It is a part of the extinction process. Don't be discouraged.


This is OK, as long as we anticipate it, understand it, and are prepared for it.  The same is true for spontaneous recovery.


They won’t like this, but it is a necessary for them to experience and to learn to self sooth their own frustrations in life.  It is what will bring on the opportunity for change.   When we do it, we block this opportunity for change and we subvert our own emotional health.

https://bpdfamily.org/2010/10/partner-have-borderline-personality.html

[an0ught]

Hi Emar808,

Hi all. I am in a relationship with a BPD person. It surfaced after a few months. I read that validation is key but when I try to use it during the rages, it makes them angrier. They accuse me of being condescending and using shrink speak. During these rages I am bad and have all of these faults that they put up with. The faults are no big deal until the rages. Then they are a huge deal. They say they do everything and sacrifice so much and I am unappreciative. Validation only makes them angrier. My only option is retreat until it blows over. Which could be hours to overnight to a full day. Anyone else experience this?

when the child is angry, hungry, crying or upset then it may help to understand what is going on and to validate.

Once the child is in full tantrum mode understanding and validation is pointless. Duck and cover are the only working strategies then. Doing in a consistent manner (see boundaries, see time-outs) can help to make this walking out being perceived less as a personal slight but more like a regular/"normal" thing which in some sense it really is.

How fast pwBPD move from upset to tantrum mode depends on person and situation. It sounds like you already got a feel for when it is too late. Remember walking out is not a bad thing and often the earlier you do it the less overall damage is inflicted on everyone. One last thought: Validating negative emotions is not easy and needs real practice. Most of us struggle at the beginning to get it right and it really helps to work through concrete situations and dialogs with other members to get a perspective.

,

a0

[waverider]

The natural use of validation is an evolution of your personality. It can't be switched on overnight or it does sound false, as it is different. It becomes more of a preventative maintenance tool rather than a crisis fixing tool.

If in doubt concentrate on not invalidating, which usually involves saying less.