What to expect now?

[Depression = 72% of members]

My uBPD BF and I split up a month ago.  At first I kept reaching out and we had some ok moments together.  Now he's very very distant.  I am still trying to make this work despite what my T, my friends and family think (it's lonely on this side of the illness).  I do really love him.  We bought a house together and the first episode appeared... .I moved out a month ago because I believe we were very close and he felt engulfed, had a serious rage and he systematically stomped on all of my boundaries, I think in an effort to push me away.  

I do think he cares about me, but I don't know if I'm just hoping and have justified in my own mind.  



When I left we agreed I'd rent a house a stone's throw from ours - I had erroneously thought that we could step back a bit and still have dinner together, date, and there would be less pressure.  I can hear Dr Phil "how's that working out for you?".  It's not. I had assumed - damn assumptions. AS the weeks go by he vanishes more and now he will not physically see me. I was needy in the beginning but now I'm under better control and feel as though I'm going through stages of grief - denial, anger, but I haven't written this off yet.  My friend's husband with BPD says he has to keep me at arms length because it's painful to be with me and that he reaches out because it's painful not to be with me.  However, I read in a BPD book that they look for comfort and I don't want to be the hopeful person who is reading things wrong.  

The house we bought was a real fixer-upper and we were gutting it.  It currently still does not have a bath or a shower.  I can see why he wouldn't want to be there.  He is not sleeping at home and it REALLY bother's me.  Sleeping at home was one of my boundaries - I'm unclear if he's still punishing me (he has admitted to punishing me before) or if he is avoiding me or seeing someone else (his pattern is he's never been alone and he finds someone immediately).  

There was nothing on his side saying he wanted to work this out.  In fact he is still very angry and says he is not looking for a relationship with anyone including me. (his pattern is he gets involved right away when a relationship is ending).  

He works in another city and the drive sucks.  I know when he was married he stayed at a cheap B&B owned by a co-worker when he worked his strings of night shifts. I have asked where he's staying and he doesn't respond.  He says adamantly that he is not looking and hasn't moved on to someone else.  

He will come home during the week and work on the house when I'm at work and then send pictures of the work.  I have stopped initiating contact but respond when he texts (man that's hard!).   When I respond more than once he doesn't respond and I just leave it.  The longest we've not texted is less than 24 hours.  We had some funny exchanges the past couple of days.  I am trying to keep it all light and not ask him about us/ask him to do something ( he stood me up a week and a half ago and didn't come home).  However, if he comes home during the week he is always gone back to the city before I get home from work.

He is a liar but I believe him (oddly) that he's not with anyone and I have serious jealousy issues. I also don't think he's checking up on me.

I think he's still in an episode.  I know he's still angry and I'm black.  Plus, the moment he had his first rage he started drinking (and never had a drink the whole time we were together).  Not drunk... .but a couple drinks a day. I think Jekyl is a jerk.  He has also contacted his exes (another reason I left - my boundaries).

My questions are these:

How do you know they still care?

Why would he be avoiding me?

Why is he still texting me?  Want's validation for the work he's done or is it about me?

Does time/ object constancy mean that the longer he is "away" the more likely he will forget us, move on?

Since he is reaching out should I be reaching out (I haven't heard from him today)?  How much space do you give?

Everywhere I read it says the BPD/impulse control makes them primarily cheaters?  

My T says he has done everything to show me he's moving on (she's not a BPD expert) and asked what will it take for me to see it.

My big question is what can I expect now?  Will the texts slow down? If I don't reach out will he feel abandoned?  Will he just disappear into the abyss?

I feel stupid asking this bc I'm pretty sure I know the answer... .I wanted to ask him to go away for the weekend on a road trip.  We travel really well together - under the proviso of just being and no heavy us conversation (which it appears he can't handle) in hopes of having fun and being white again? This is a ridiculous request in the current climate - right?

My fear includes watching someone else move into my dream house.  His pattern is people move in quick with him (he idealizes them and tries to put them on title)and are kicked out soon after.  He's only had 3 relationships after a 20 year marriage and now me.

I am trying to take care of myself.  It's hard.  I do know how to do that  I just worry I'm a fool for hoping and waiting... .

[gah]

My uBPD BF and I split up a month ago.  At first I kept reaching out and we had some ok moments together.  Now he's very very distant.  I am still trying to make this work despite what my T, my friends and family think (it's lonely on this side of the illness).  I do really love him.  We bought a house together and the first episode appeared... .I moved out a month ago because I believe we were very close and he felt engulfed, had a serious rage and he systematically stomped on all of my boundaries, I think in an effort to push me away.  

I do think he cares about me, but I don't know if I'm just hoping and have justified in my own mind.  



When I left we agreed I'd rent a house a stone's throw from ours - I had erroneously thought that we could step back a bit and still have dinner together, date, and there would be less pressure.  I can hear Dr Phil "how's that working out for you?".  It's not. I had assumed - damn assumptions. AS the weeks go by he vanishes more and now he will not physically see me. I was needy in the beginning but now I'm under better control and feel as though I'm going through stages of grief - denial, anger, but I haven't written this off yet.  My friend's husband with BPD says he has to keep me at arms length because it's painful to be with me and that he reaches out because it's painful not to be with me.  However, I read in a BPD book that they look for comfort and I don't want to be the hopeful person who is reading things wrong.  

The house we bought was a real fixer-upper and we were gutting it.  It currently still does not have a bath or a shower.  I can see why he wouldn't want to be there.  He is not sleeping at home and it REALLY bother's me.  Sleeping at home was one of my boundaries - I'm unclear if he's still punishing me (he has admitted to punishing me before) or if he is avoiding me or seeing someone else (his pattern is he's never been alone and he finds someone immediately).  

There was nothing on his side saying he wanted to work this out.  In fact he is still very angry and says he is not looking for a relationship with anyone including me. (his pattern is he gets involved right away when a relationship is ending).  

He works in another city and the drive sucks.  I know when he was married he stayed at a cheap B&B owned by a co-worker when he worked his strings of night shifts. I have asked where he's staying and he doesn't respond.  He says adamantly that he is not looking and hasn't moved on to someone else.  

He will come home during the week and work on the house when I'm at work and then send pictures of the work.  I have stopped initiating contact but respond when he texts (man that's hard!).   When I respond more than once he doesn't respond and I just leave it.  The longest we've not texted is less than 24 hours.  We had some funny exchanges the past couple of days.  I am trying to keep it all light and not ask him about us/ask him to do something ( he stood me up a week and a half ago and didn't come home).  However, if he comes home during the week he is always gone back to the city before I get home from work.

He is a liar but I believe him (oddly) that he's not with anyone and I have serious jealousy issues. I also don't think he's checking up on me.

I think he's still in an episode.  I know he's still angry and I'm black.  Plus, the moment he had his first rage he started drinking (and never had a drink the whole time we were together).  Not drunk... .but a couple drinks a day. I think Jekyl is a jerk.  He has also contacted his exes (another reason I left - my boundaries).

My questions are these:

How do you know they still care?

Why would he be avoiding me?

Why is he still texting me?  Want's validation for the work he's done or is it about me?

Does time/ object constancy mean that the longer he is "away" the more likely he will forget us, move on?

Since he is reaching out should I be reaching out (I haven't heard from him today)?  How much space do you give?

Everywhere I read it says the BPD/impulse control makes them primarily cheaters?  

My T says he has done everything to show me he's moving on (she's not a BPD expert) and asked what will it take for me to see it.

My big question is what can I expect now?  Will the texts slow down? If I don't reach out will he feel abandoned?  Will he just disappear into the abyss?

I feel stupid asking this bc I'm pretty sure I know the answer... .I wanted to ask him to go away for the weekend on a road trip.  We travel really well together - under the proviso of just being and no heavy us conversation (which it appears he can't handle) in hopes of having fun and being white again? This is a ridiculous request in the current climate - right?

My fear includes watching someone else move into my dream house.  His pattern is people move in quick with him (he idealizes them and tries to put them on title)and are kicked out soon after.  He's only had 3 relationships after a 20 year marriage and now me.

I am trying to take care of myself.  It's hard.  I do know how to do that  I just worry I'm a fool for hoping and waiting... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[SweetCharlotte]

Gah,

My gut feeling is that he is done with your r/s. It is over, like he says.

Even if he has BPD, this is not just an episode of silencing. He has moved on.

You still own this gutted house together, so he has to respond to your texts. You will have to work together to figure out what to do with this house, whether he will buy you out or you will both put the house up for sale and split the proceeds, etc. In the meantime, he is living in your jointly owned house for free.

The sooner you get the house ownership issue settled, the better for your stability, as I see it. Right now you are obsessing over a man who has been clear that he is no longer yours in any way. You live a short distance away from him and you watch his comings and goings. This is not healthy.

I have had this problem myself, gah, back in the early 1990s. I obsessed over a man with mental illness and could not take "no" for an answer. Every once in a while he would show a little interest in me, and that would get me started all over again. I wound up BREAKING INTO HIS HOME because I was so convinced that it was just his mental illness that was keeping us apart, but that he really, deep down, wanted to be with me.

He tried to press charges and, though I wasn't arrested, I did lose my job. It took me years to recover from this painful experience. I hope that you can gather your resources and continue without this person, without much further ado.

[patientandclear]

Gah, I'd say anything could happen next with the two of you. If you show continued warmth, don't shame him, and offer to do things occasionally. I'd predict he will turn you down or ignore your suggested plan, but may come back later with his own suggestion.

Bigger question: you've acknowledged that he has a pretty devastating pattern, of getting people to sign on with him quickly, move on, then exclude them. That he leans on exes when current relationships get fouled up. Do you want to re-enter that?

[patientandclear]

I should also add:

While I disagree with your T and SweetCharlotte that he is "clear" that he is done (I think his actions tell another story), the flip side of that coin is that he could get stuck in this arm's length place for a long time.  It sounds like he has a distorted emotional memory of you leaving him, which either omits why you did that and that he has control over those actions ... .or which is honest that you left because of actions he is likely to repeat, so there IS every chance you will leave him again.  Anyway, that's a big hurdle, and the truth is, maybe you are NOT OK with the way he is going to behave, and he's correct that trying again will lead to further pain and loss.

Also, about the other women.  The fact that he adamantly denies that he is engaging with someone else & gets mad at you for suspecting that, carries zero water in my eyes.  My ex and in were in a protracted quasi-romantic limbo for a long time.  He was living in another city and he carefully manages his online presence to be minimal or nonexistent.  Very very hard to have any idea what's going on in his life when he is so far away.  But by a fluke I became aware that he was dating another woman, seemingly very into her (by her FB posts, she sure thought so).  He never disclosed this to me.  Months later I told him I needed to back off in our intense emotionally intimate r/s because he had replaced me with someone else.  He vehemently denied it.  Our r/ship blew up over this & he didn't communicate for months.  More than a year later we addressed this again.  He again vehemently denied not one but two r/ships I am 150% sure he had after our romantic r/ship split up.  To hear him tell it, he's just been reclusive, working on his own stuff, putting on a brave face when he acts happy and engaged with others, but that's a facade ... .etc.  The problem is I know from objective other evidence that that is a bunch of baloney.

I would just embrace the reality that you have no idea.  I'd stop questioning him, as you aren't sure whether to believe what he tells you & the questioning itself will start to have a distorting impact on your dynamic.  I'd radically accept that you have no idea if he's messing around with other women, except you DO know he is flirting with FB girl and making contact with other exes.  Now ... .what does that mean about what kind of engagement you want to have with him? That is, the possibility that he is pursuing other women?

Someone posted on a thread here sometime back that being kept on the precipice of intimacy for a prolonged period is very damaging.  That is very true to my experience.  My heart really goes out to you.

He is having a hard time trusting you ... .but not because you are untrustworthy.  Because trust is super hard for him.  It's not personal and it may not be fixable, but that feeling is no doubt sincere on his part.  He's sure you will leave him again.  And before you hasten to reassure him, consider that it is highly likely he will do again the same kinds of things that caused you to leave this time.  He may not be wrong.

[waverider]

Hard to say what the future will bring, but you have to move forward now, not live in a pending state.

Can't be with you, cant be without you is a common BPD theme.

He has a chance to be done or not, you can't control that. Try to avoid making assumptions or second guessing him.

One thing is for sure you can't go back to what was, even if he does return.

Get on with living as though it is done and if he does change his mind down the track you can start from scratch, if you even want to, with firmer boundaries and values so you don't repeat this.

[gah]

PatientandClear - thank you so much for your detailed response.  It makes a lot of sense.  You have me crying - if I could hug you I would!  Means a lot! Truly!

Somehow I think I may be white today.  I think they may have a second sense.  I have been staying busy, reconnecting with friends, activities... .cleaned my car (woah) and planning a road trip - starting to move on emotionally.  He even came home.  I went over to weed my garden - he was home and I left.  He loaned me 9k when we first got the house to pay off a debt.  I left a payment for him, his favorite choc bar from my dog (she broke into the fridge a few weeks ago and ate his).  He has been chatty all night.  Offered to let me borrow a triathalon bike and download music on my ancient iPOd, burn p90X yoga for me. He told me he's been working extra shifts. 

I'm trying not to get my hopes up... .but... .  I will take it slow and let him drive.  I think it's bc I told him I believed him (even though I'm not sure).  I have to admit that my brain thought oh... .his gf may have not been available today - if indeed he has one. I'm trying to work on my trust issues too.  I noticed his laundry did not include "date clothes"  I should have been a private investigator.  I hate that about my brain.

He had lung cancer a couple of years ago... .yesterday he sent pics of the work he's being doing on our house.  He said it was hard to breathe in there. I asked when he was seeing his doctor and he said he was dodging results.  I asked why.  He said it didn't matter. He said he'd never do chemo/radiation again.  He was saying he didn't care if he lived or died.  He basically said he didn't care if he lived or died.  I said that I'm here for him unconditionally. I am trying to be warm... .

Part of this splitting I think is related to some PTSD from going through chemo and his perceived relationship with someone he really cared about.  She was a gold digger - she wanted his house if he died.  She was brutal.  I don't know what the truth actually is.  But it (his perception) has affected him deeply.  IN fact, he told me that since I brought her up he sees me as her - knows I am not but feels that I am. (I am NOTHING like her).  I'll be honest here and say I'm not sure if he actually had cancer but his family and friends say he did.  He has a brutal cough and takes pretty serious meds.  I feel awful for doubting.  All the women he has been with do not work.  I have a great career, make a great salary so by paying him back I think it instills trust?  In my attempt to show I am not a taker.  I'm not.  I think it's his white knight and people for sure have taken advantage of him.

So my plan is to let him come to me and rebuild my singledom life in the meantime.  I've been single most of my adult life and I like living alone... .  I found a support group where I live for BPD and it is run by a distinguished mental health/addiction centre ... .hooray! I'm going to call tomorrow

One day at a time.  I feel today was a good day

Thanks again!

[gah]

Thank you WaveRider!  I'm trying... .

Gah, it's so hard... .

[married21years]

Hi

one thing to remember, is they are driven to avoid feelings. feelings hurt to them.

they have an inner pain at their core that they are trying to avoid getting near.

just like a crack addict needs crack to numb their pain. they need to do what they do to control their feelings. this is the life and hell they live with.

but with therapy they can fix the inner pain, but it needs great courage and support.

this is where you come in, but therapy will only work if they  want it to cure there pain.  but it will get worse before it gets better.

there treatment in is IMHO

1 tools for coping.

2 learning to deal with feelings.

3 getting to the core issue

4 repairing the damage they have done.

my wife is on stage 1

but before this happens they have to acknowledge they have an issue

[SweetCharlotte]

How long ago did you become involved with this fellow, gah?

I'm just wondering because, usually there is an idealization period that lasts for several months. In my case it was almost exactly six months between when we started dating and the first devaluation. That happened to hit between our engagement and the wedding.