Staying in a relationship when the other claims there isn't one.

[Haye]

The background: Living together with a BPD&:)ID&OCD guy, + my kids from previous marriege + a roommate. The pwBPD in my life dumped me last january, we agreed to live together until fall to give him to time to find a new place to live + perhaps a job or start getting an education. We tried living in different rooms on the house, but it didn't work out (he basically panicked and dysregulated badly). So we gradually got closer again and went back into a scenario where pretty much everything is like we are a couple, except that he insists on that "no we are not together" -part. We try not to talk about it too much as I get quite upset about the non-relationship-state we are in. (the fact i'm good enough for someone to live in with, have sex with, etc but not enough "to be together" hurts my feelings a lot). He is in therapy, extremely selfaware and extremely motivated in getting better (however, due the nature of DID, not all of him want to get better and some parts of him are not particularly interested in being with me).

He was supposed to move out around august, but none of his plans worked out and this seems quite unlikely now. He basically thinks he can continue this non-relationhsiplike relationship (as it works well for him), but i've told him i cannot go on like this forever. I have told him that i have no need to part with him, but that I realize how i'm already building up resentment (etc) due living in a situation that does not agree with me (my values) and if this continues I might get too pi**ed of and get out of the non-relationship in a not-so-pretty way.

For some days i'm fine. I try not to think too much and enjoy things as they are. We have a lots of moments when he is very loving and cuddly. For some days he is distant and i've gotten used to that and accepted it (since most of the time it's due his problems and past, not because of me). For some days or moments I just feel... .Hurt. I try and I know he tries too, but i don't know, perhaps it's not enough?  Perhaps i have given in too much, perhaps i should've just kicked him out immeaditely when he decided on this "were not a couple anymore" thing... .We both are aware he has huge attachment issues, and some of them are ridiculous together like his fear of commitment and otoh his fear of abandoment. One issue is that for me leaving him is likely to be 100%, like no contact for a while at least to be able to cut all bonds i have - i have been waiting for my chance to do so. OTOH me cutting him of all connection is  something his fragile mind doesn't take. Me sleeping alone downstairs is almost too much already.

I have told him that i don't want to go through another winter like that last one, that anything close to that is too much for my mind and i'm not able nor willing to pay such a price. Part of me hopes something will change from his side, a part of me just wants out and start a new page in life. And a big part of me is just lost.

He has agreed to talk with his T, after a serious amount of insisting on it from my part. I think he hasn't told her that after the break-up we've gone back to have a very relatioshiplike non-relationship, and thus hasn't told her I feel about the situation.

So idk. I guess i just sit and wait and hope the T can help us somehow.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Sunfl0wer]

Haye,

While I don't know how to tell you to handle this situation, I do want to tell you that I relate.  My uN/BPDtraitsex did a similar thing.  It was a brutally painful and confusing time for me that I am still baffled by.

He announced we were broken up, but we were still living together.  Then we began being friendly again, then intimate. He maintained not saying we were together again, however, our behavior was almost like a couple and the r/s dynamic was the same.  Our MC had began seeing us for solo's and in my solo, was encouraging me to reach out and provide BF a way back to me without shame... etc.

The push/pull that went on was torture.  We'd have the most passionate intimacy we ever had, his behavior during this was filled with apology, desperation, and deep wanting.  However, prior, he would act more like his attendance was sufficient for intimacy.  

During the times he needed space from me, I'd begin to grieve a horrible painful grief of our r/s end.  Then he'd reach out to me in some minor way... . I'd feel my emotions of grief soothed for the moment.  Then only to feel the next "push," and the strong grief would feel engulfing again.

Our MC was confused by all this.  Him saying we were over, but reconnecting in ways that he was keeping a secret from MC in his solos.  I said that I felt BF always wanted all the benefits of a r/s, however, did not want any of the responsibility.  He did not want to be held to any standard, not wanting to be accountable to anything/anyone.  He wanted to find a way to experience the r/s without feeling any guilt for any way he fell short.  MC agreed, said this explained it and made sense based on what he was also seeing.

I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you are in the situation you are.  

Does it seem possible that he can still find another place to live by August?  Two months certainly seems reasonable, no?

I'm not sure why you think the T will help you both?  Is it a couple T for you both or his T only?

You express you want him to leave for you to go NC and do some detaching, however, you posted in staying?  (Also your title)

(Sorry if others know you better here and get the context of this all... .I am trying to be supportive, just not understanding a few things)

[vortex of confusion]

I am a bit confused by the situation as well.

Are you currently sleeping in the same room as him or not? In one place you said that you started sharing a room with him again and in another part you mention sleeping on the couch.

I ask because doing something small like sleeping in another room is something that you CAN do right now. I know it will be difficult to pull off because it is quite likely that he will dysregulate. Is it possible that you can ride out the dysregulation? What can you do to help you stick with that? When you give in, you are sending mixed messages and adding more confusion to a situation that is already confusing.

I don't think it would be wise to wait it out in the hopes that the T will somehow fix things or make things better. Can you look for small things that you can do to communicate that you don't want to be in a relationship that is a non-relationship?

[Haye]

Thanks Sunflower and VoC, i'm glad for your thoughts. Somehow it is a relief to know somebody else has gone through this - and Sunflower your ex sounds so much like my guy.

And I apologize for being so unclear. I wrote that in a hurry, plus learnt english at school only -> i make odd mistakes.

So. We still sleep together, in both meanings. I have tried sleeping elsewhere about three times after january, but it has always resulted in him dysregulating (as far as cutting himself) and me ending up comforting him, by hugging etc. And eventually ending up back in the same bed.

I made a consiouss decision and voiced it also out that okey, we try manage as a couple in non-relationship until he moves out, because I realized i'm not able detach if he lives with me. He agreed for example not to have any flings going on while he still lives with me (he was having several girls around early Jan and that pained me a lot), or at least not doing it on my face (like constant texting). As far as i know he has kept that promise.

We have discussed about the situation, and he knows i don't  want a non-existant r/s and he also knows that i'm quite flexible when it comes to the terms of being in n r/s, but somehow he is unable to see my point (or doesn't care about it). Like Sunflower's ex he seems to want all the benefits of being in a r/s but avoid taking any responsibility. He says freedom is the only thing he has, and claims he is willing to sacrifice everything for it, including contact with me. But it appears he is not able to hold the outcome. He is also unable to clarify what freedom exactly means to him, only that he has to have it. 

The T is his only. She (and his psychiatrist) have been reluctant to meet me as they are concentrating on him only. I found this a bit odd, since moving out is connected to his well-being and I also claim that his cycle

It is possible he could find a new place for August, yes, but the one problme is his reluctance to do so. He says he is safe here, he needs to live with people around him, he likes being with me etc.

I guess my problem is that i am willing to stay with is side, deal with a lot of stuff that comes along with being with him, but it would require him aknowledging there is a r/s. And submitting to some basic rules like trying to avoid having lots of flings and telling me if he is interested in a woman before doing anything and also informing that woman there is this SO in his life... .

And understand and accept that if he doesn't want a r/s with me, then he doesn't and he needs to move out and let me start to detach and heal.

[patientandclear]

Hello.  I have dealt for quite a while with a similar situation -- my BPD person and I never lived together, but we had/sometimes have an intimate r/ship that he doesn't acknowledge as a romantic partnership.  So I can relate.  It's super tough.

It sounds like you know what to do, you're "just" scared of the possible consequences of enforcing your boundaries.

I'd say if he wants to deny the nature of the r/s, you need to make sure the actual relationship matches what he says it is.  You should be sleeping separately.  He should have a date to move out.  If he won't move, you should.

You can communicate all that in a positive framework -- this is not what you want, you prefer a real r/s, but you respect his wishes, and they have these necessary implications.  It sounds like you are not going to be able to explain this all to him up front and get him to change his approach by understanding its impact on you.  Maybe he doesn't believe you will take any piece of your intimate connection away, in which case, why not keep this up?  He gets to have his cake and eat it.

The thing about freedom seems to be a core BPD impulse.  For better and for worse, getting the benefits of a primary relationship with another person comes with some restraints on complete freedom.  So long as you don't obscure that by making yourself available on non-viable terms, he will have to choose which of these is more important to him (or find someone else with whom he can blur those lines).

I completely get what sucks about the current arrangement.  If you don't want to carry on like that, seems to me you give him what he says he wants (a roommate relationship with a planned separation of households).  He would then have to shift and take some responsibility for his other unacknowledged desires in order not to lose those aspects of your r/s.

[vortex of confusion]

I guess my problem is that i am willing to stay with is side, deal with a lot of stuff that comes along with being with him, but it would require him aknowledging there is a r/s. And submitting to some basic rules like trying to avoid having lots of flings and telling me if he is interested in a woman before doing anything and also informing that woman there is this SO in his life... .

And understand and accept that if he doesn't want a r/s with me, then he doesn't and he needs to move out and let me start to detach and heal.

It is very difficult to try to detach and heal while living with him.

I have had a similar experience. My husband and I experimented with an open relationship for a while. It would infuriate me because I felt like he was using the other stuff as a distraction. He didn't want to do the work involved in fixing or even maintaining our relationship. At one point, he said that we were going to be coparents and friends and we could both do whatever we want. It was a very confusing time and I can't even begin to explain it. I just know that at one point I told him that if we were going to be just friends that I needed to act like it. There was a period of time where I wouldn't hug him or kiss him or give him any of the benefits that he was taking for granted. Once I stood my ground, he changed his tune rather quickly. For most of our marriage, he has woken me up before leaving in the morning to kiss me goodbye. I even put a stop to that. Nope, you do not get to wake me up to get good morning kisses. If he did wake me up, he sure as heck didn't get a kiss. I think it lasted a sum total of 2, maybe 3 days. I had to make up my mind to do it and then stick with it. If I showed an ounce of weakness, then he was going to weasel his way back in.

[Haye]

Had yet another discussion with my pwBPD as I knew he had session with his T, P and a social worker,  handling his future treatment and other plans. Nothing about him moving out, at all. He still seems convinced he can continue living with me, like this. Or without the r/s like thingy. Doesn't matter what I say, so you guys are right - i should just take my bedding and make the split real.

I told him, again, that he is free to go, i am not holding anyone against their will, but if he doesn't want to be with me he then he has to go so that i can detach and heal. He doesn't want to go, as he likes it here... .But doesn't quite understand why I insist on him admitting we have an r/s. And makes it sound as i'm dumping him or throwing him out... .Another sigh. His only plan is to move back to this another country where he lived for some time, bascially on streets, taking drugs, smuggling, and well you can all see the picture. Abandoning his treatment here... .Splendid.

Hilarious thing is that he doesn't remember telling me he is moving out by August. Which happens with him on occasion, as his DID causes a lot of memory losses like that (i.e. another side of him told me this, and the part of him that's out now is not aware of this). First he was very defiant, cold and idk what to call it, arrogant maybe? Now he is devastated, like a lost child. Sigh. Complained to me that after such a discussion with a weak minded person I should go back to being normal and hug him asap. Right.

[Haye]

(i was just trying to modify, sorry idk what happenend)

[vortex of confusion]

Doesn't matter what I say, so you guys are right - i should just take my bedding and make the split real.

Your actions must match your words. It sucks when you realize that your actions don't match your words. You say you don't want the relationship thing yet you are continuing to share a bed with him.

(I am not picking on you. I am in the midst of some big realizations myself. I realize that I am doing a lot of complaining about my husband but haven't done as much to address some things as I should.)

What reason does he have to do anything different if all I do is complain and discuss things without actually doing anything different?

I told him, again, that he is free to go, i am not holding anyone against their will, but if he doesn't want to be with me he then he has to go so that i can detach and heal. He doesn't want to go, as he likes it here... .

It sounds like it might be a good idea for you to make the decision and then stick with it. It sounds like his actions have pretty much told you what he wants. If you don't want the same thing, then you have to find the strength to kick him out or move out.

Why would he want to go? He has you to share a bed with and keep him company. And, it seems like he has figured out that he can play you like a fiddle. I know that is soo hard to hear. I hate typing it out because I know that I have been there and am still there to some degree. It is hard to stop being a push over. I am still working on it.

But doesn't quite understand why I insist on him admitting we have an r/s. And makes it sound as i'm dumping him or throwing him out... .Another sigh. His only plan is to move back to this another country where he lived for some time, bascially on streets, taking drugs, smuggling, and well you can all see the picture. Abandoning his treatment here... .Splendid.

He is pulling your heart strings. He knows you love him. He is using that to his advantage. My husband has pulled crap like that on me. I don't remember how or when I changed some of that dynamic. Once I was able to identify what was going on, he would tell me stuff like that and I would respond with something along the lines of, "Okay. That is your choice. If you are willing to accept the consequences of making that decision, go for it." That took all of the power out of the manipulation tactic of pulling on your heart strings. When it doesn't work, they stop doing it.

I remember very clearly crying to somebody else and saying, "But I have to do such and such. If I don't, then he is going to do blah, blah, blah and I don't want to see him do that." One, I don't HAVE to do anything. My husband is his own person capable of making his own choices. If he wants to make a bonehead decision, let him. The only caveat is that I won't let him make a decision that is going to cause harm to me or my children. Sure, I might not like seeing or knowing that he is doing certain things but it isn't my place to feel sorry for him and try to rescue him from himself.

 

[Cat Familiar]

I had a slightly different experience with my ex-husband. When I broke up with him, we had shared a home and a business. He kept living on our property, but he started dating other women and got together with a woman who had two kids and was on welfare. She got a job, but he didn't. They spent weeknights at her place and weekends here in the little garden cottage.

It was really weird, but I was glad he had found someone because I was so done with him. His girlfriend started hating me, without even knowing me because (I found out later) he was painting me black to everyone he knew.

Because we had shared finances and I was both working our business plus another outside job, and he was happily unemployed, sponging off a welfare mom, he asked me for an "allowance," which I gave to him. I'm laughing now, thinking I was supporting this idiot, but at the time it seemed reasonable.

The reason I'm telling you this is because your lives are very intertwined and you need to be very clear about what you want and what you're willing to put up with as far as being in this "non-relationship" with this man. PwBPD are incredibly good at being manipulative and getting us to feel sorry for them.

[Haye]

Your actions must match your words. It sucks when you realize that your actions don't match your words. You say you don't want the relationship thing yet you are continuing to share a bed with him.

Well, it's complicated  . I would like to continue with him, pretty much the way we are and have been, with only requirement that he too admits we are in a relationship (and follows few rules, which he has been following a while now). I feel a bit stupid to be caught in a wording, but then again it's a very important wording for me.

I know i try avoid some of conflicts to keep things calm for my kids too. They like my pwBPD even though he can be a bit distant sometimes, and as  they have lost a lot during recent years (their parent's divorce, two grandparents dying, loss of four (!) family pets in a row) i just wish i could somehow spare them (i'm making excuses for him again?).

He can't really understand his own behaviour. Is actually not happy with what is going on, but says he is not able to change what he is doing either. Some days ago he reminded me of couple things. First how in his mind he is worse than a cancer in the world, a very rotten no good shell-of-a-person who brings nothing but trouble to anyone he is close. His worst fear is not only people abandoning him but also hating him, and he wondered that maybe that is what is doing. Trying unconsiouscly prove himself right - that he is a no good, bringing me trouble and trying to push my buttons so far that I too will blow it permanently and end up cold and distant (which is how he usually interprets as hatred).

[vortex of confusion]

Well, it's complicated  . I would like to continue with him, pretty much the way we are and have been, with only requirement that he too admits we are in a relationship (and follows few rules, which he has been following a while now). I feel a bit stupid to be caught in a wording, but then again it's a very important wording for me.

 

Hmmmm. . .

You want to stay with him as things are. You want ONE condition to be met. He refuses to meet that condition.

He isn't going to change.

It is up to you to change. I know that stinks. You are already doing so much.

 

[Haye]

The pwBPD in my life has now decided he too wants to stay, okaying we are in a relationship and wondering why he insists on the situation being what it is. Saying lots of other stuff like how much he loves me, and how he likes being with me etc.

Perhaps this is just another phase in push-and-pull cycle  . He really panicked about the idea of loosing me completely (i was quite firm in both words and attitude, like dead serious). I was also physically gone for something like 24hrs after having a serious discussion with him (visiting my friends), which resulted in him cutting himself and switching through several states (alters). The good news here is that he was aware of the fast switching and said for a while the alters/states were present at the same time. For him it was horrifying, but no matter how stressfull it is actually huge progress.

But. This is not the first time he thinks differently when i'm going very cold on him. So I'm a bit sceptical on how long this is going to last. We have discussed that the push&pull has to stop, it is not good for either one of us. We both know I can only get out; him being the only one who might change what is going on.

He is trying to work on all this with T, very hard. Said that something in his system rebels against him being happy. The minute he realizes he feels generally happy with his life he developes huge anxiety and usually it leads in to a switch. Being happy and close with me does that.