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Author Topic: Being Strong During Her Storm...  (Read 486 times)
MaroonLiquid
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« on: June 23, 2015, 07:54:55 AM »

Quote from: Grey Kitty on Today at 01:06:24 PM

Suggestion zero: Post your strategy on the legal/custody board and run it by your lawyer first. Your wife is using this whole divorce thing to yank you around / create conflict / be part of the fight. You need GOOD advice before you jump into this shark's pool.


OK... .I will do that... .


Quote from: Grey Kitty on Today at 01:06:24 PM

Suggestion one: Have all communications about the divorce with her through her lawyer.

She's using this as a game and leverage. If she's doing it through her lawyer, she's forced to be a bit more serious rather than just use it as a bigger card to play to manipulate you.


That's a good idea.  I agree she is using this as a game and for leverage.  It's an extinction burst and pushing the divorce has worked for her at times.  I don't want to go this route, but where does the game end with her?  That's what I'm having a huge problem with.  So far, I get tougher and she sees that and finds a new way to dig her heels in and try and get me to cave.  I can't believe she keeps acting like a fool and seems as if she doesn't want things to change.  I wish our marriage could work, but that takes two, and for the past year, there's only been one of us.


Quote from: Grey Kitty on Today at 01:06:24 PM

Suggestion two: Decide what divorce means to you. Will you treat her differently? Will you treat her kids differently? Will you consider yourself single, and (perhaps, eventually) start dating again? Or does it just mean you never have to discuss anything financial again with her.


Divorce means I am no longer married to her.  Does that mean I don't want to be involved romantically with her?  No, but I don't know how I do if she isn't in T.  Is my heart still involved emotionally with her?  Of course it is.  Will I start dating again eventually?  At some point.  I'm wired to share my life with someone.  I thought that someone was her.  It may still be, but I can't bet on that nor put my life on hold.  As far as the kids, I don't even know where to begin with that one.  It breaks my heart for them.  I would love to be involved with their life, but... .Our daughter playing for my softball team is now a big question mark.  My wife didn't bring her to practice last week twice because she was mad.  That isn't fiar to my daughter nor to my team.  I have to think of my team first.  My ex-wife made the comment when we were talking that when my wife would see me having fun talking to her or other people over the weekend, then she would try and get close to me and start talking.  If I was just trying to talk to her, she would ignore me or try and embarrass me.  She said, "It's almost like she doesn't want you but doesn't want anyone else to have you, or maybe she just wants you to be miserable too because she is miserable and destroying her life."  I've has so many people tell me recently that I won't see what my wife really feels about me until I am no longer in the picture on any level and therefore not her whipping post.  Of course I know what I have read regarding pwBPD, so I feel very torn there.  I wonder what the kids think about me now that I have been out of the house for almost a year and not there day to day with their mom.  I wonder if they think differently about me or be even more mad at me because I'm not there.  I know I can't worry about that, but I do.  I hate to see them hurt.  I know they see her dysregulate and have to have serious questions.


Quote from: Grey Kitty on Today at 01:06:24 PM

And lastly... .stop thinking about and talking about her seeking help. As you are stepping farther away from her, your input/influence/interest in her mental health should be less, not more.

Hang in there. It is gonna be a tough ride!


I just meant that when I do send this to her attorney and if she tries to back off of it, I have to have some boundaries regarding having a relationship with her.  I was trying to think one step ahead, know what I mean?  I know people question my sanity, but I am still very much in love with her.  I'm just very detached from her daily drama and therefore her health mentally and emotionally is still very important to me. 


Quote from: sweetheart on Today at 01:18:08 PM

ML you answered my thoughts about how much more you could put up with. I found myself thinking about your situation recently and how hard you have worked on all levels to change yourself to the person you have become today.

I am sorry that it has come to this because I know that this is not what you wanted. That said I believe that the approach you are taking is a positive step for you to assert your needs and to continue to look after yourself.

Make sure you post on Legal.


Thanks.  I am dealing with a lot of emotion today.  I'm just drained.  Yesterday was a gut-punch on fathers day and taking a couple of days of reflection to let some stuff sink in and also to see where I go from here if anywhere.  I don't want to make an emotional decision, but I want to be smart.  Is it bad that I still want our r/s to work and hope that one day we can have a r/s?  Am I a glutton for punishment?
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Fian
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« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2015, 10:24:15 AM »

I suspect that she is going to try and use the divorce proceedings to extract additional financial concessions from you.  Be prepared.
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« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2015, 10:46:15 AM »

I suspect that she is going to try and use the divorce proceedings to extract additional financial concessions from you.  Be prepared.

I agree and prepared that that is her next step in this "divorce".  That is her main motive when she dysregulates.  It's sad.  She's hoping eventually I will give in.
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2015, 10:19:53 AM »

Hi Maroon.  I am just checking in on you - how are you doing?
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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2015, 01:56:18 PM »

Hi Maroon.  I am just checking in on you - how are you doing?

Thanks for asking Fian.  Im ok.  I'm preparing an email to my wife's attorney simply asking for the things that I want in the divorce and if that's agreeable then I will sign the decree.  I'm dealing with a little fear for the simple fact that I've always told my wife I didn't want a divorce and this would go against that.  Ultimately, everyone knows what I want, but she needs the reality that she can't hold this over my head forever. I have to show strength and that I care about myself regardless of what she does or chooses.  She needs to see that I'm not scared of divorce nor will I hang in limbo any longer.  At this point, maybe she needs that fear that she will lose me.  I think she thinks I will always be here.  This past year during our separation, I have worked on myself, gotten stronger, however, marriage is a two way street.  I can only change me.  I know that our marriage is just a piece of paper unless things change with her.  It's hard because she chooses her dysfunction above our marriage.  The last two weeks was a new low for her in that she didn't acknowledge a response to my text on our anniversary and than was outright ugly to me in front of other people last weekend at the softball tournament.  She was obviously upset that I didn't play her games and was having fun in spite of us not speaking much that she had to bring up divorce on Father's Day to ruin that day for me and my kids since she ruined that day for her kids.  I'm sure it embarrassed her on some level when I asked if she would pick me up a sandwich if I gave her the money, and she said out loud, "I'm not going to do that!" When everyone knows that's my wife.  I have to believe that is why she hasn't tried to communicate with me or bring our daughter to softball practices herself because she is avoiding those truths and knowing other people saw how ugly she was.  Maybe not.  Who knows.  I haven't tried communicating with her either because I won't allow myself to be mistreated that way.  I'm actually surprised she hasn't tried to contact me.
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« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 02:11:20 PM »

It's obvious the divorce is a game to her.  it's not a game to me.  Either do it or cut that crap out.  Its like a game of chicken... .She's learning I don't play her games anymore.
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2015, 03:13:05 PM »

I am sorry that it has come to this.  Hang in there.   
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2015, 06:17:24 PM »

I am sorry that it has come to this.  Hang in there.    

I am hanging in there.  I do miss just being together with her this evening.  Nowhere near what I used to feel though.  Much stronger now!  The avoidance she does is crazy and sad.  It's hard.  I miss her and hate where she is but I can't help her. I am surprised she hasn't tried to contact me though. 
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2015, 12:44:12 PM »

It's obvious the divorce is a game to her.  it's not a game to me.  Either do it or cut that crap out.  Its like a game of chicken... .She's learning I don't play her games anymore.

Game or not for you, you are letting her lead still, and it is one for her.

What choice seems right for you today? Staying in a relationship with divorce games, or taking steps to complete a divorce?
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 11:12:29 AM »

It's obvious the divorce is a game to her.  it's not a game to me.  Either do it or cut that crap out.  Its like a game of chicken... .She's learning I don't play her games anymore.

Game or not for you, you are letting her lead still, and it is one for her.

What choice seems right for you today? Staying in a relationship with divorce games, or taking steps to complete a divorce?

What seems right is taking steps to complete a divorce.  

Yesterday, I was at a softball tournament and my wife and daughter showed up after not showing up the previous day.  It was strange because she was friendly and we were conversing.  She invited me to eat lunch after one of our games and so I went.  While we were at lunch, my mom and sister showed up to the tournament.  They made it awkward and seemed pissed at me for going to lunch with her.  They never spoke to my wife which obviously triggered her.  She pulled me aside and said, "You've obviously told them something to turn against me and this just proves that what I'm doing (divorce) is right."  I validated the hurt that she felt from being ignored.  She asked me why I'm ignoring the divorce and said that I'm not.  I told her thatI held on because obviously it wasn't what I wanted but I'm not going to hold her to something she doesn't want.  She said, "Ok, then please call my lawyer so we can get this done.  Will you do that?"  I said, "OK, I will."  She said, "Thank you."  That kind of triggered me and I hid my frustration but she was happy and joking after that.  I find that so strange!  We went to dinner with the rest of the team and had a good time.  I am tired of the back and forth.  
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 10:29:31 AM »

So what will be different for you after you are divorced from her?

(Besides the fact that she cannot threaten to divorce you when the divorce is final)

Why does it seem right and what will you gain by it?
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 11:23:42 AM »

So what will be different for you after you are divorced from her?

(Besides the fact that she cannot threaten to divorce you when the divorce is final)

    I will have finality to the "limbo state" of our currently dysfunctional relationship.  As far as moving forward, I really don't know what that looks like right now.  I don't know how to see her other than a "romantic partner" in my current emotional state.  How do I separate her as a romantic partner to just being acquaintences and the coach of her daughter?  :)o I separate the two?  Will she?  I don't know.  She still calls me "honey" at times.  I still want to be romantically involved with her, just can't in the current dysfunctional state.  Still so many unanswered questions.  This is heartbreaking for me and I will have to feel my way through this part of it.  

    There are other things that will be strange to deal with.  As of now, her daughter will be on my select softball team.  I can see our daughter as "just another person on the team" as I do my own girls, as that's the way it's always been so nothing changes there.  The more difficult issue is her as "just another parent".  One thing I enjoyed about our relationship was that throughout our marriage and my coaching career, I could bounce stuff off of her and get her take as an objective person most of the time.  Now, as "just another parent", I can't do that.  I realize I can't look to her for much anymore and honestly, it makes me very emotional.  Maybe that's some codependency issues I need to deal with.  My T said that she obviously sees me as being in her life for a long time.  How can he say that considering we will be getting a divorce?    

Why does it seem right and what will you gain by it?

It seems right in that the dysfunctional aspect of our limbo state will be gone.  I will gain some self-respect back and be able to have the freedom of not feeling like I owe her anything.  No longer will I feel controlled or feel like I have to answer to her.  I realized this has gotten me to a depressed state and saddened by that but can be free of that "hold" as well.  I will be able to be free to spend time with people that I haven't and won't feel like I have to defend myself against my FOO everytime they know I'm with her.  That got old. 
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 11:45:38 AM »

I just realized something.  I realized I haven't wanted to let go because I didn't want to believe everything we shared was a lie.  I have to figure out why that made me put up with things so long.  I can't even emotionally go there.    :'( :'( :'(

To own something you don't know how to change opens a person to hopelessness, self loathing and depression.

To own is a threat of frightening proportions.

This is why it is blocked ferociously, triggering fight or flight reactions.

It is not until the threat of consequences are removed, and the promise of a way forward can be seen, that pwBPD will be prepared to contemplate this challenge.

It is a chicken and egg situation that is hard to break

I thought I would bring what Waverider said in another thread over her.  It makes complete sense in my case.  This is exactly why my wife retains her denial.  She knows my family knows the truth about her (and asks what lies I've told them... .) and to "own it" is frightening.  It's easier to divorce than to face it and her demons.  Why does her wanting to keep up those lies hurt me so bad?  She's choosing them over me obviously and that's a rejection I don't understand and can't deal with.  How does she not know I would be there for her.  I think I have proved it in the last year... .
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 02:30:52 PM »

Hi ML,

I just want you to know I am following and I can hear you 

I don't really know what to add, just that it's so very sad. I am forever struck by the futility of this illness that pursues itself in ever decreasing circles.

Do you know in practical terms how you will move forward with this ?

What are you doing that pays extra attention to your needs at the moment ? 
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 04:20:54 PM »

Hugs to you. I'm trying to give up the need for BPDh to "own" anything he's done to me. He simply can't or won't. He wants to believe his own lies, so I'm just going to try to let him. I just wonder if he truly believes them or somewhere deep down he knows they are lies.

Why he'd rather vilify me is probably so he doesn't have to take any personal responsibility or face his true nature, I'm guessing. They are always all about "sharing the blame", when in actuality, lots of times it's simply THEM. We went round last night because he wanted me to take blame that wasn't mine. Not happening.

I can see why divorce will give you a sense of freedom, but is she likely to still try to control you due to her seeing you as still romantically entangled?
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2015, 09:08:49 PM »

l

Why does it seem right and what will you gain by it?

It seems right in that the dysfunctional aspect of our limbo state will be gone.  I will gain some self-respect back and be able to have the freedom of not feeling like I owe her anything.  No longer will I feel controlled or feel like I have to answer to her.  I realized this has gotten me to a depressed state and saddened by that but can be free of that "hold" as well.  I will be able to be free to spend time with people that I haven't and won't feel like I have to defend myself against my FOO everytime they know I'm with her.  That got old. 

I applaud what you wish to accomplish here.

I don't see how a signed divorce decree will change any of these things.

She tried to control you and make you feel guilty. If you continue communicating with her, a divorce won't change her behavior or stop her games.

If you spend time with her after your divorce, your FOO will probably give you a harder time, not an easier one.

You have to change your own attitudes and behaviors to accomplish these things. Perhaps the divorce will help you do this... .but I don't see the sort of results you speak of as a direct outcome of the legal action.

And whether you see her as a romantic partner or not is also not changed by a divorce decree.

I sure wouldn't expect that sort of thing to change quickly for you either. I'm keeping as much emotional distance from my wife as I can to help myself move on... .still working it, and I haven't seen her in three months, and saw little of her for six months before that. And we are pretty clearly done, even though neither of us has engaged a lawyer to start divorce stuff, and we haven't divided a bunch of things up yet either.

That part is going to take time... .and time with an ambiguous status doesn't help much.

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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2015, 10:53:44 PM »

The divorce won't change how I feel about her.  It will allow me to be a lot less entangled with guilt and emotion regarding doing/not doing things for her.  I won't be her whipping post anymore and won't allow myself to be.  I am curious to see how she changes if at all with a divorce finalized.  What could her games be with a finalized divorce and why do you think they would continue?  Doesn't a finalized divorce take the control out of her hands?  Just curious.  Im still hopeful that one day she will get help and maybe we can have a functional r/s. 
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2015, 02:25:28 AM »

Hi ML,

For me the desperately sad irony around you acquiescing to her divorce demands, are that she might revert after to a 'push' mentality and accuse you of not loving her because of it 

I agree, I believe that living your life without the threat of divorce hanging over you at every turn will free you in many ways, but I'm sure you are already aware it will also bring huge sadness.

Take care
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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2015, 09:50:41 AM »

Hi ML,

For me the desperately sad irony around you acquiescing to her divorce demands, are that she might revert after to a 'push' mentality and accuse you of not loving her because of it  

I expect this at least right at first.  I think she will have a very difficult time with me actually moving on and think that may be the thing that moves her to get help.  Even if it doesn't and she doesn't get help, I'll be okay.  

I agree, I believe that living your life without the threat of divorce hanging over you at every turn will free you in many ways, but I'm sure you are already aware it will also bring huge sadness.

Take care

    I went through a lot of my deep sadness when we split a year ago.  I worked through it for months.  Honestly, when she filed, I felt way more free than before.  If it does go final, it will only make it that much more so.  :)oesn't mean I don't love her, wouldn't be there for her, or not want a "healthy r/s" with her, just not as easily and with boundaries.  I truly believe she needs to see strength in me that she doesn't expect to be there.  One thing I think she has always thought in the last year is I couldn't make it on my own and would end up "in a puddle" and come crawling back to her.  I didn't.

    When she divorced her first husband, she was quick to get the kids and her into counseling.  This time, she wouldn't go anywhere near it.  Why is that?  Never could figure out (until shortly after I found this site) why she wouldn't go to counseling.  She knew I knew the truth when she found this site on my laptop she held hostage.  I'm sure the truth of reading through posts and symptoms that it scared her to death.  That was about her and not wanting to deal with her issues.  She instead went and hid in a big church to keep people at arms length so they couldn't get close to the truth.  That has probably been the hardest thing for me to work through is that she would rather hang on to lies and her illness than get healthy and save our marriage.     Honestly, I think what she is going to try is "fight" over the little things since I won't fight with her anymore.  I think that is her next "game". 
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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2015, 10:38:38 PM »

The divorce won't change how I feel about her.

Excerpt
It will allow me to be a lot less entangled with guilt and emotion regarding doing/not doing things for her.

I'm confused. You say you won't feel differently, then you say how you will feel differently.


Excerpt
I won't be her whipping post anymore and won't allow myself to be.  I am curious to see how she changes if at all with a divorce finalized.  What could her games be with a finalized divorce and why do you think they would continue?  Doesn't a finalized divorce take the control out of her hands?  Just curious. 

No, a finalized divorce doesn't stop her from playing games (except for threatening divorce, because that ship has sailed).

She can still keep you away from her kids. Not tell you about their school events. Keep them away from softball practice. Give you the cold shoulder.

She can still invite you into the house, and still cuddle, snuggle, and have sex with you.

She can still ignore your kids school events, or go to them.

She can still ask you for money, or demand that you help her pay tax debts or for the washer/dryer.

How would divorce change any of this?

Excerpt
Im still hopeful that one day she will get help and maybe we can have a functional r/s.

Going forward on divorce is not a reasonable path to a functional (romantic) relationship in my book!
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« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2015, 11:35:41 PM »

I'm confused. You say you won't feel differently, then you say how you will feel differently.

I just meant that I will still love her, that won't change.  At least not right away.  My big thing would be to set better boundaries.

No, a finalized divorce doesn't stop her from playing games (except for threatening divorce, because that ship has sailed).

She can still keep you away from her kids. Not tell you about their school events. Keep them away from softball practice. Give you the cold shoulder.

She can still invite you into the house, and still cuddle, snuggle, and have sex with you.

She can still ignore your kids school events, or go to them.

She can still ask you for money, or demand that you help her pay tax debts or for the washer/dryer.

How would divorce change any of this?

I guess it wouldn't in theory.  But I don't have to keep her daughter on my team is she continues to be a problem either.  If I don't go to their school functions, that isn't any different than now as I'm not invited.

Going forward on divorce is not a reasonable path to a functional (romantic) relationship in my book!

Are you saying not getting a divorce is a more reasonable way?  Just curious... .She's the one pushing the divorce and threatening mediation if I don't respond.  Why would I not show her that it doesn't bother/scare me that she is pushing divorce?  Not responding seems cowardice and as if I'm sticking my head in the sand. 
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« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2015, 09:33:29 AM »

This may help you find some peace with your feelings about your wife... .

I went through some rough stuff with my wife (before I'd even heard of BPD or was good with any such tools) and I went on a 10-day silent meditation retreat. I found two really powerful things for myself there, and realized that there was no conflict between them.

1. I would always love my wife.

2. I might have to leave her to protect myself... .that with her I might be stuck living in a way that I had no respect for myself.

Years later, my wife chose to leave. I still love her. And I'm choosing to create as much emotional distance from her as I can for now... .so my heart and habits can catch up to the situation. I do hope to have her as s close intimate friend again someday.

Part two... .what do I suggest you do about the divorce?

I suggest you work out what place you want to give your wife and her kids in your life.

Knowing and accepting that she is playing toxic mind games with you and using both her kids and yours as pawns in those games.

You can stop participating and enforce boundaries... .and are getting much better there... .but you cannot stop her from playing her chosen role.

... .if what you want for today is the status quo, wanting to stay as close as you can safely be to her and the kids, don't push for divorce.

... .If you want to get closer to her if/when she gets therapy/etc... .still don't push... .and I'm going to suggest more radical acceptance, as this sounds like a recipe for disappointment for you.

... .if you are done with her but want all the contact you can have with her kids, then you plan on being pulled into her games, and consider what you want to do. There may be some deception or interesting games or hard choices called for on your part for this, as she DOES use the kids in games aimed at you. (If suggest a new topic for this!)

... .if you are done, and willing to let the kids go... .get divorced ASAP.

In short, if you aren't sure what to do with the relationship... .it is hard to decide well about the divorce.
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« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2015, 09:52:49 AM »

This may help you find some peace with your feelings about your wife... .

I went through some rough stuff with my wife (before I'd even heard of BPD or was good with any such tools) and I went on a 10-day silent meditation retreat. I found two really powerful things for myself there, and realized that there was no conflict between them.

I am taking my children out of town for most of next week and really looking forward to getting away!  I need it.  My kids need it.

1. I would always love my wife.

I'm with you here... .

2. I might have to leave her to protect myself... .that with her I might be stuck living in a way that I had no respect for myself.

Luckily, in the last year living alone, I have a lot more respect for myself.  I never lived alone before and wasn't sure I could.  Now I know I can.

Part two... .what do I suggest you do about the divorce?

I suggest you work out what place you want to give your wife and her kids in your life.

I would like them to be a part of my life.  I want to be a part of their life.   

Knowing and accepting that she is playing toxic mind games with you and using both her kids and yours as pawns in those games.

I accept that that is what she does.

You can stop participating and enforce boundaries... .and are getting much better there... .but you cannot stop her from playing her chosen role.

I realize I can't control her and not trying to.

... .if what you want for today is the status quo, wanting to stay as close as you can safely be to her and the kids, don't push for divorce.

I haven't, but she is the one pushing for it and pushing me to participate.  Says if I don't, she will set a mediation date.  She is putting me in a no win here.  Last weekend, she got upset because my family wasn't nice to her (understandably so), but I validated and she still made the comment, "This proves that what I'm doing as far as the divorce goes is the right thing to do."  They are upset with her because the way she treats me.  My mistake was I told her I would get in touch with her lawyer... .She just called me and I didn't pick up.  probably wanting to talk about the divorce.  Didn't leave a message either.  Maybe another extinction burst? 

... .If you want to get closer to her if/when she gets therapy/etc... .still don't push... .and I'm going to suggest more radical acceptance, as this sounds like a recipe for disappointment for you.

Not really.  I've gotten to the stage of radical acceptance.  I've stuck by her this long.

... .if you are done with her but want all the contact you can have with her kids, then you plan on being pulled into her games, and consider what you want to do. There may be some deception or interesting games or hard choices called for on your part for this, as she DOES use the kids in games aimed at you. (If suggest a new topic for this!)

... .if you are done, and willing to let the kids go... .get divorced ASAP.

In short, if you aren't sure what to do with the relationship... .it is hard to decide well about the divorce.

Honestly, I want the r/s to work.  I love her enough to stand by her, but don't want to be a whipping post any longer.
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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2015, 10:21:28 AM »

She texted asking why I haven't contacted her attorney when I said I would and she asked, "What's up?"  :)on't even know how to respond.  I shouldn't have said I would.  I just texted and said I was in a meeting until two and would text her later.  I realize her bringing up the divorce after her and I had a very good day was a trigger when my family wouldn't speak to her.  She sees that situation as hopeless obviously.
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« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2015, 09:14:57 PM »

My suggestion is to put the ball back in her court. You are allowed to change your mind.

Next time she asks, say something like "I'm sorry I told you I would contact your lawyer. I've thought about it and since I don't want a divorce today, I'm not going to suggest terms for one."

And end the conversation.

I think the best approach (when she starts badgering you about it again next time) would be: "I don't want a divorce, but I will sign if the terms work for me. Have your lawyer send me something ready for me to sign and I will review if with my lawyer."

My reason: discussing it with her face to face or on the phone won't do you any good. So refuse to do it.

(I'm going on the assumption that she has no legal leverage to get money from you in a divorce, dysregulated fantasies aside)

Arguing with you over the divorce works for her as a way of regulating her emotions. Paying for her lawyer to draft a divorce agreement doesn't in the same way.

Note that you didn't promise what you would sign or verbally negotiate terms. So you can choose not to sign and let her force mediation still. Dunno if that is a good idea, but your options are open.

Take the satisfaction out of the game.

And let her take all the paperwork initiative and pay all the fees. If she wants the divorce, she can do the work.
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« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2015, 10:55:42 PM »

My wife texted and said, "I didn't hear from you after 2, as you said you would do. Also, I heard tonight at practice that you're taking your kids out of town to a resort this next week. You told me just 2 weeks ago when the IRS took $2,000 from my pay that you had no extra money to pay me half of that. I don't know how you sleep at night knowing what you're doing."  

How do I respond to that?  Considering this vacation is being paid for by my mom for me and my kids and my sister, her husband and her kids.  It's not costing me anything.  How do I respond without JADEing?  Im not going to feel bad about this. 
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« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2015, 01:26:00 AM »

Don't respond.

Remember I asked you can your wife go ahead and file for a divorce without you, GK outlines that scenario, but way better.

Unless her messages are neutral, calm, asking you directly about divorce, then don't answer. That's assuming you want to do things the way GK suggests. 

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« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2015, 04:55:59 PM »

Don't respond.

Remember I asked you can your wife go ahead and file for a divorce without you, GK outlines that scenario, but way better.

Unless her messages are neutral, calm, asking you directly about divorce, then don't answer. That's assuming you want to do things the way GK suggests. 

I didn't respond.  I saw her today by accident at a sports training facility where my team practices (she had our daughter there getting some extra work in) and she was talkative and nice.  She never brought up the divorce, her lawyer, me going out of town next week or anything and we had a few laughs.  Said she would see me tonight at practice.  She's starting to understand I think that I won't communicate when she is nasty and has to calm herself down.  GK is right that the "divorce" is just a game.
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« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2015, 05:03:42 PM »

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) that's great.
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« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2015, 05:04:47 PM »

If it isn't a question, you don't need answer it.

She doesn't want to know how you sleep at night or how you paid for vacation. And it isn't her business anyway.

She wants you to pay her IRS debt.

You could  tell her that it is her debt, and you will not pay it. You are paying your own IRS debt. There is a difference between won't and can't. Either way your wife wants otherwise and will yank any chain that she thinks might have money on the other end. If you stay firm, she will figure it out eventually. If you equivocate or throw her a crumb, or give in completely, she will figure that the games she is playing with you work and keep it up.

I'm going with what you've been saying for a while. That you aren't going to give her money anymore. I'm assuming that you haven't changed your mind. And hoping that the various threats, guilt trips, and dysregulations from your wife won't change Your resolve.

Cross-posted... .sounds like you've got this one!

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