Well she did it again

[Panda39]

Last year at this time my SO's D18 was about to go off to her dream school and then this... .

Back story: SO's D18 went to an out of state private college on the promises by her mother that there was a "Family Trust" that would pay for it.  D18 really wanted to go there and chose to believe mom in spite of dad giving her the reality of the financial situation.  She wanted believe her mom because she really wanted to go and your mom wouldn't lie to you about something like this right?  Wrong,  mom didn't pay for the first semester D18 had student loans and grants that covered some of the tuition but has now been left holding the bag to the tune of $15,000 and because the school is unpaid they won't release her transcripts.

She is now in collections and can't apply to some schools in our state limiting her choices, because she is unable to provide a transcript. After she did this uBPDmom started emailing D18 about all the other schools she she would send her to instead    D18 is currently No Contact with her mom.

D14 also went NC with her mom at the beginning of the year.  Then she went low contact because the promises of camp started coming from her mother (D14 was also setting some boundaries) .  Just like her sister the year before she really wanted to go and she really wanted to believe her mom.  But the lies were flying... .oh yes you are going to camp this year!... .over and over again because D14 knowing what happened to her sister kept asking if she was going over and over.  Apparently there was a round trip plane ticket, who knows if it was real or if it was bought and returned. So D14 is more convinced she is going. See Thanksgiving post for more fun travel "arrangements" made my uBPDmom.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.phptopic=237811.msg12533387#msg12533387

Has camp been paid for?  That would be weeks of NO!

D14 was supposed to be on the imaginary plane with her imaginary plane ticket this morning to go to imaginary camp (It's all just her mother's delusions) . But as of the end of the day yesterday camp had not been paid... .SO confirmed directly with them.  So dad did not let mom come pick her up (his day of custody).  D14 is very upset and disappointed.  Last heard that mom was having D14 re-pack today with promises to getting her on a plane this evening    D14 has been diagnosed with PTSD and her mother's instability is a huge trigger for her and here we go again!

This stuff is so painful to watch.  These girls desperately want a normal mother and they want to believe in their mother. Instead they get lied to, manipulated, and then crushed.  Dad is left to pick up the pieces.

I jokingly told my SO that he should give the kids a $50 limit on any financial promises uBPDmom makes, anything over that the answer should always be No Thanks!  That's assuming they ever talk to their mom again.

The other thing that is bothersome about the whole camp thing is, that if mom had $5,000 to send D14 to camp it's my feeling it should have gone toward D18's 15,000 debt (I don't know if this would have been fair to D14).  Instead in that special BPD way both kids have been screwed.   :'(

Thanks for letting me vent.  I know you all know.

Panda39

[bravhart1]

Oh the joy of watching children be torn to bits under the guise of having the " best mom ever"!

I'm right there with you Panda.

So hard to watch, I sympathize and wish for better days for all our (gifted to us by the powers that be) children.

So how do you put them together again?

[Panda39]

So how do you put them together again?

Hi bravhart1,

Well once mom stops stringing D14 along (she's all packed and ready to go again today the bus from Chicago to camp left yesterday - now uBPDmom's dad will drive D14 from Chicago to Wisconsin - we'll be hearing from him today... .NOT) and daughter finally figures out she isn't going and reality hits and the full weight of the disappointment hits dad gets to pick up the pieces.

D14 is in Therapy, the court in it's wisdom gave therapy decision making to uBPDmom... .talk about putting the fox in charge of the hen house.    Anyway dad at this point has defacto full custody and will be getting D14 in for an appointment shortly.

Both D14 and dad have been talking about the possibility of camp not falling through for at least a week now. (So at least it doesn't come as a complete surprise like things did for her sister) D14 and dad have really nice open communication which will I'm sure will be continuing.  D18 has also been talking to her sister. (good for both of them D18 is a stuffer) D14 has their support and mine.

Therapy, family support, listen, validate her feelings, and help with some boundaries (maybe my $50 budget idea isn't bad  )  It might be too late for this, but also try to find some other activities that she can get involved in this summer.  That is the current plan.

Oh the joy of watching children be torn to bits under the guise of having the " best mom ever"!  

It's so disgusting! This woman isn't a "mother" she is a con artist who has conned everyone she has ever come in contact with one way or another even her own children       

If anyone has suggestions/ideas to help get D14 through this I'll take em.

Panda39

[bravhart1]

I had a pretty blunt talk with SD T today. Bottom line is only one of them can survive then who's it gonna be? The child or the mom?

You know how we vote.

Is there any way you can call someone at the camp and get a scholarship? Explain what happened? Because damit that's pretty tough on a teen who's looking forward to camp and packed and I wish I could make that happen for her. You and I  live it, and we know she got stuck with a bad mom, but it's still so unfair. :'(

Is there a writing class or workshop in your town? Someone you could have her meet with at a local junior college? I think helping her find an outlet for this frustration would help her cope.

Writing, art, dance some way to express that thing they are usually told to hide( their real feelings about having  a shi$$y mom).

[momtara]

Ugh, how heartbreaking to see them emotionally manipulated. Only positive thing is that older daughter sees what she is and isn't becoming alienated from the dad or anything like that.

Maybe you need to see signed camp forms and things like that ahead of time. But I know that's just engagement.

Maybe if D14 stays in the area where friends are, one will know of a counselor in training position or cool local camp? Maybe travel camp? People do drop out at the last minute, so you never know.

[Panda39]

Thanks bravhart1 & momtara for your support 

Update: D14 got to camp last night days late and with all the drama and chaos her uBPDmom could create for my SO, D14, camp, and whoever drove to the airport (mom doesn't drive has to rely on other people).

I'm glad D14 got to go to camp, but feel for D18 who had to watch mom spend $5000 on her sister while she has $15,000 in debt created by her mom that just sits there.

My SO already told D14 that next year camp is between her and her mother, that he is staying out of it. This whole experience was very triggering for him... .it takes him back to his marriage and all the feelings that go along with that. Anger, helplessness, sadness... .D14 wants to believe in her mom and I get that, so she like her sister has to learn the hard way and if it isn't camp we know it will be something else. It's so heartbreaking.

I don't even get mad anymore it's just resignation and disgust these days.

[scraps66]

Too bad for the kid.  There is a tough lesson to learn here - count on a BP for nothing.  Probably the safest path to take.  I hope this gets straightened out in a good way.

[momtara]

Maybe she will make good friends at camp and have a good experience away from the drama. Sorry for the frustrations. I can see why it would be triggering for your SO. At least he has you now!

[Panda39]

Update: D14 IS NOT AT CAMP     

D14 has been at the home of "friends" of her mother's (These people are strangers to D14!) in Wisconsin waiting to go to camp (That started a week  ago!).  D14 at mom's urging was told to keep this secret from dad   

D14 finally called him today in tears to tell him where she is. 

She is stranded in Wisconsin with people she doesn't know waiting to go to camp that will never be paid for.  On top of it I'd bet the friends thought they'd have D14 overnight at the most and they've been stuck with her 4 days now.

Who the Hell does this to their child!     WOW! Now my SO has to fix another one of his uBPDxw's fiasco's and help D14 (D14 is diagnosed with PTSD in part due to her mother's instability... .I can only imagine how stressed, scared and angry she is)

I only briefly spoke to my SO today I'll update as I know more.

 

[Turkish]

Wow. I hope he calls and talks directly to the parents. Please update as you know more.

[bravhart1]

WOW who does this ?

I believe her sending your SD to someone's home who's a stranger to you and telling you that SD is somewhere else has to be some kind of crime right?

How on earth are your dealing with this? Geez, I thought I had the worst BPDm here Panda, but that's a contest I don't want to win with players like these!  

[Nope]

Wow. Unreal.

So the pattern is that she wants her kids to like her and be willing to talk to her so she makes them huge promises she can't possibly keep and then enjoys the good feelings that come with being the hero mom that does good things and saves the day. But then when it comes time to pay up, she'll take it as far as she possibly can to continue to feel good about herself as a mother while everything falls apart and the kids pay the price.

There are times when BPD parents just seem like jerks and then there are times where the behavior is so obviously maladaptive that it clearly looks like the manifestation of severe mental illness. Situations like this are the latter.

I have no advice accept get the poor kid home asap and right into her T's office. Be prepared with lots of validation. Your SD just lost her last hope that she has a mother she can trust and she's going to be devastated while she processes all of this.

[Panda39]

Wow. Unreal.

So the pattern is that she wants her kids to like her and be willing to talk to her so she makes them huge promises she can't possibly keep and then enjoys the good feelings that come with being the hero mom that does good things and saves the day. But then when it comes time to pay up, she'll take it as far as she possibly can to continue to feel good about herself as a mother while everything falls apart and the kids pay the price.

Yep, ultimately it's all about her and how she feels... .oh so very BPD... .oh so very sick  .  It should be noted that uBPDxw's family is all about money and appearances so this is were her dysfunction manifests itself most often.  Money and buying things makes you feel good... .makes you happy... .is soothing... .even if the money is imaginary.

There are times when BPD parents just seem like jerks and then there are times where the behavior is so obviously maladaptive that it clearly looks like the manifestation of severe mental illness. Situations like this are the latter.

She has been on a steady spiral downward for a long time.  Doing things in the long run are ulitmately hurting her, that push her to do worse things to feel better, that blow up and make her feel worse, so she does things to feel better and so it goes... .

I have no advice accept get the poor kid home asap and right into her T's office. Be prepared with lots of validation. Your SD just lost her last hope that she has a mother she can trust and she's going to be devastated while she processes all of this.

Yep, this is the plan my SO has been talking with is exfather-in-law (who lives in Chicago and is better placed to help) they are trying to figure out how to get her home.  Apparently, she was flown in to the small town where she is on a small chartered plane and the nearest airport is something like 50 miles away.  My SO did talk to the people she is staying with who are the elderly parents of a friend of the uBPDxw and they are confused about what is going on and what to do.  The ex had the woman go to her bank because she was going to wire her money?... .for camp?... .for a flight home?... .so the lady went to the bank and waited and then got told to go back home. It should be noted that this type of thing was done to D18 when she was away at college only she was told to go to the airport and wait for a plane ticket home that never came only to turn around and go back to her dorm.

D14 doesn't have any therapy appointments set up because she was going to be gone for a month so I did mention to her dad to set some up once arrangements to get her home are complete. We know validation is key and we will all be doing that, I did however say to dad that he needs to talk to her about lying to him at some point (after she gets home and things settle down) because this situation put her safety at risk.  Luckily these people she is with seem to be nice people it could have gone another way.

As far as camp goes another story is emerging and that is that she never paid for last year either.  So her MO is to send her kids somewhere with promises to pay (college D18/camp D14) then puts the responsibility of her kids on to them for as long as she can and then she never pays for the services provided. My SO also had a message from camp that he hasn't been able to return yet so we will see what that's about. I suspect they have found out that D14 is up there and not at camp. 

So today we concentrate on flight arrangements and get the poor kid home.

Thanks for your support everyone, I'll keep you posted as this all plays out.

Panda39

[Deb]

Is there any way you can turn this into supervised visitation? Obviously, she is a danger to this child.

[Panda39]

Is there any way you can turn this into supervised visitation? Obviously, she is a danger to this child.

D14 has been living full time with dad (her own decision) since the beginning of the year.  For awhile she was NC and then low contact with some boundaries so uBPDmom brought out the big guns and began dangling "camp" in front of her.  She really wanted to go and really wanted to believe her mom so she chose to do just that and ignore her father's warnings and went to her mom's.  Mom put her on the plane and sent her so we all thought she finally made arrangements with camp... .Not!

Beleive me if her older sister's reaction to the college fiasco is any example D14 will now be going NC with her mother too.  Both of them are done.

[Panda39]

D14's (wealthy) uncle is sending a car to pick her up and get her to Green Bay where her grandfather will pick her up and get her on a plane.  We are looking for her to arrive sometime tonight or tomorrow and then everyone can exhale.

[maxen]

hi Panda. this is almost too much to read. i cannot imagine the grief that your SD's dad, and you, and SD, are being put through. please stay strong!

if wealthy uncle and grandfather are arranging SD's departure, does that mean they know what's up with the mother? could they be advocates, or am i getting too far ahead?

I believe her sending your SD to someone's home who's a stranger to you and telling you that SD is somewhere else has to be some kind of crime right?

i wondered too.

[Panda39]

if wealthy uncle and grandfather are arranging SD's departure, does that mean they know what's up with the mother? could they be advocates, or am i getting too far ahead?

They are uBPDmom's brother and father they are both fed up with her too.

I believe her sending your SD to someone's home who's a stranger to you and telling you that SD is somewhere else has to be some kind of crime right?

It might be criminal, but I think it's a moot point because I can pretty much guarantee nothing like this will happen again because the kids won't let it happen they both have ZERO trust in there mother at this point.

uBPDmom is already up on felony fraud charges for writing a large bad check that bounced (we don't know to whom) Hmmmmm, could it have been for last year's camp that we just found out wasn't paid for?  So jail might just be in her future anyway.

[Panda39]

My SO's D14 made it home yesterday evening 

We found out more of the story from her.  She was told by her uBPDmom and believed that camp was paid for so she got on the plane and went.  The parents of her mom's friend picked her up on the evening of Tues 6/23/15 when I'm sure they thought they would be dropping D14 off at camp the next day.  Mom stalled because camp was not paid for. 

Sometime between Tuesday when D14 arrived and the following Saturday the lady D14 was staying with made the failed run to the bank for money that didn't exist and wasn't coming.  The lady now was catching on something wasn't right.  Saturday uBPDmom calls and says that camp is paid for. 

So the Lady takes D14 to camp to get her checked in.  Once they arrive the folks at camp look at the lady and say are you the person bringing the check to pay for D14's camp?     So there D14 is in the camp office and friends of hers are there too and she has to leave because camp has not been paid for... .D14 was mortified.  The lady she is staying with now understands that there is something rotten in Denmark and is getting angry about what is going on.  For the next 2 days tries dealing with uBPDmom.

Finally almost a week after arriving in Wisconsin, at the urging of the lady she was staying with and because she finally recognizes her mom has failed she calls her dad Monday evening. 

Camp was not paid for last year so I don't get why they even entertained the idea this year    My SO also returned the call he recieved from them and was lectured about his daughter being in Wisconsin and when was he going to get her home and what was the hold up?... .really?... .my SO had just found out himself the evening before and was scrambling to arrange things and come up with money for plane fare that he wasn't planning on.  So instead of understanding and trying to help camp blamed him for what the uBPDxw had set in motion.  :'(  He will be writing a letter to this guy's boss.

D14 finally made it home last night and put her phone on speaker so her dad and sister could here the conversation and called her mom.  D14 then proceeded to chew her mom out! Basically told her many things my SO had in emails the day before.  How could she do this? How could she lie to her?  That it was wrong of her to have D14 lie to dad about where she was. Had she ever heard of BPD?  That she needed to get help. How could she lie to her friend's parents.  That she inconvenienced her uncle and grandfater etc... .  It should be noted that mom never apologized just sat there and said "I hear you"    and then asked if D14 still wanted contact with her.  All about her! No acknowledgement that the whole fiasco was caused by her.

I'm not sure what D14 is going to do regarding contact with her mom right now she is very angry and releived to be home.  She has therapy next week and I'm sure will be working through this with her therapist. 

This whole episode has also triggered D18 (this in many ways it the same senario her mom ran on her regarding college last year) and hearing her mom's voice on speaker yesterday put her in tears.

On the positive side they have their dad, they have stability with him, and a safe place to land.  The three of them apparently had a group hug when D14 got home 

Thanks everyone for listening,

Panda39

[livednlearned]

This really brought tears to my eyes.

I'm so glad she's home. It's so awful how much heaviness these kids have to experience when they're so young.

The sad thing, too, is that the damage seems to go on so long. They suffer having a mentally ill parent in their lives, and they suffer when that parent is out of their lives. So much grief to process.

My son was 12 when he got in the car one day and said that having empathy just made things hurt too much. He didn't want to have empathy.

:'(

I'm glad your girls have each other. It's one thing I feel really sad about with S13. He doesn't have that.

I hope you can all heal after this.

[Panda39]

Thanks livednlearned,

It is so hard to watch these kids learn "the hard way" but sometimes that's the only way to learn.  Your right it's a catch 22... .uBPDmom lies, manipulates, and bribes when they are in contact and becomes a FOG machine when they are not in contact with her.

D14 seems to be a pretty resillient kid with the support of therapy.  D18 stuffs, but I heard from her dad that she made her first post here - after being a lurker for sometime... .I'm really excited that she did and hope she becomes active in the conversations and is able to get support, ask questions and get help processing what is going on with her mom.  Dad has also been encouraging her to go back to therapy... .we'll see... .baby steps.

Addendum:

Dad emailed me a picture at work today of his daughters out at his BBQ grill and I thought "well that's nice they're cooking him dinner"  Nope, it wasn't dinner it turns out they were burning all of the notes and emails mom had sent D14 when she was "at camp"!  I bet that felt good and they did it together.  You're right it is good that they have each other.   

[PinkieV]

I'm so glad everything worked out Panda. I would have not been responsible for what I did to BM if it was my SS's. They are 19 and 15, and I'm so glad they have each other.

[Thunderstruck]

Oh my gosh Panda, I remember reading about the college fiasco last year, and about the Thanksgiving fiasco. Now this! The sad thing is, when a pwBPD is involved, cruddy stuff like this doesn't even surprise me.

Right now our uBPDbm is constantly promising SD10 and her oldest daughter (not related to us, different father, lives in another state, uBPDbm hasn't seen her in 5+ years, SD10 last saw her two years ago when DH and I took her) that she will fly the oldest daughter down and take them to Disney World. The time always comes up for the trip and uBPDbm says "I don't have the money" and promises to do it later. Over and over and over.

It really stinks that D14 and D18 had to learn this lesson the hard way. Sometimes I worry about SD10, because she really trusts her mom too.

[Panda39]

Oh my gosh Panda, I remember reading about the college fiasco last year, and about the Thanksgiving fiasco. Now this! The sad thing is, when a pwBPD is involved, cruddy stuff like this doesn't even surprise me.

I know, when I arrived here I was angry!  Now it's just resignation and disgust when it comes to this woman.

Right now our uBPDbm is constantly promising SD10 and her oldest daughter (not related to us, different father, lives in another state, uBPDbm hasn't seen her in 5+ years, SD10 last saw her two years ago when DH and I took her) that she will fly the oldest daughter down and take them to Disney World. The time always comes up for the trip and uBPDbm says "I don't have the money" and promises to do it later. Over and over and over.

Yep, promising trips is one of the uBPDxw's specialties, the problem is that she comes through just enough to keep the kids believing and stringing them along. (Although that might be at an end now)

It really stinks that D14 and D18 had to learn this lesson the hard way. Sometimes I worry about SD10, because she really trusts her mom too.

I know I worry about how the stuff their mother does affects the girls' trust... .will they become untrusting of others, will they not hear their gut and be too trusting when they shouldn't be? 

[ForeverDad]

Con artists are usually described as Antisocial PD, so she may very well be co-morbid with multiple PDs, or at least a combination of traits.

Going forward, if there are any more promises, the firm boundary has to be, "Send the money in advance, all of it, not just enough to start but the whole enchilada... .plane fare round trip, all fees, etc."  For D18 it would have to be "Fix the debt first, then we can see what if anything is next."

[Panda39]

Yep, she really fits at some level or another all the Cluster B PD's but I would still go with BPD as primary.  Back when my SO and I were trying to figure out what her deal was he thought NPD then we found BPD and all the rest.

I said essentially what you did... .

If she wants to offer something over $100 the answer should be "Noo Thank you" and if she offers anything that involves air travel the answer should be "Noo Thank you".  But if mom wants to take them to lunch and shopping at the mall one afternoon that should be fine.

For D18 it would have to be "Fix the debt first, then we can see what if anything is next.

Yes this is where D18 is also.  The unfortunate thing is mom is still playing games offering to send her to other colleges     Telling other people that D18 left school because she "didn't like it"     She also wanted D14 to come over and look at the pictures on the camp website of her friends... .really!     Both daughter's have recently "told their mother off" (D18 broke 6mos of NC) her response "I hear you" really?  She doesn't hear well enough to apologize to her children for her actions.   I know it's PD behavior she most likely will not change but it doesn't change the swath of pain she has cut through the live's of her kids... .so disgusting and sad.

[bravhart1]

After what happened she really asked D14 to come over to look at photos of her friends enjoying the camp she was lured out of state with and got ultimately jerked back like cruel Lucy with Charlie browns football?

This woman is clueless. 

How is it even possible she does not possess even one shred of empathy toward her daughter about how she must feel over that camp fiasco? If I were her I wouldn't be able to say the word. "camp" in front of my daughter let alone invite her over to moon over the other campers enjoying their holiday. That's unbelievably callus and cruel. I feel so bad for your SD14, I don't know how mom even shows her face.

Sending out good wishes to your family Panda, I hope something good comes to SD14 to make up for having such a icky mom. At least she has you

[Panda39]

After what happened she really asked D14 to come over to look at photos of her friends enjoying the camp she was lured out of state with and got ultimately jerked back like cruel Lucy with Charlie browns football?

Lucy and Charlie Brown analogy is right on the money. 

How is it even possible she does not possess even one shred of empathy toward her daughter about how she must feel over that camp fiasco? If I were her I wouldn't be able to say the word. "camp" in front of my daughter let alone invite her over to moon over the other campers enjoying their holiday. That's unbelievably callus and cruel. I feel so bad for your SD14, I don't know how mom even shows her face?

Yes, D14 had a particularly hard 4th of July broke down and cried a couple of different times.  Many reminders of what she was missing... .friends and fireworks over a lake.  She has gone back to NC with mom.

D18 briefly broke NC to tell her mom off but is back to NC.

I know from reading the coping board how hard NC can be and as a child how conflicted doing this can feel (the need to protect yourself vs FOG).  I know underneath everything that they love their mom... .at the bottom of it all she is still their mom. I think they both still hope that she will be normal/mentally healthy and it will take them time to accept she isn't who they wish she would be and unfortunately maybe more cases of getting burned.  In the meantime they have both gone NC to protect themselves emotionally from a mother who... .doesn't get it that it's about her daughters (no empathy)... .doesn't want to get it (denial)... .oblivious to what she's done (delusional)

Both are working on negotiating their mother in different ways.

D18 is less interested in interacting with her mom right now and is trying to understand BPD... .why do people develop it, what it is and how it works.  She has made an initial post here and just wrote a paper on BPD for her Psychology class at school. 

D14 is less about understanding BPD and is more interested in ways to protect herself and still have some kind of relationship with her mom... .Boundaries!    She is getting help from a therapist in that regard.

Sending out good wishes to your family Panda, I hope something good comes to SD14 to make up for having such a icky mom. At least she has you

SO and I don't live together (yet)... .kids, jobs, different locations 30 miles apart... .so their Dad does all the heavy lifting in terms of the girls.  He's an amazing guy that has done a good job on behalf of his daughters.  Right now I see my roll as his support... .official listener/shoulder to cry on, BPD researcher, amateur therapist, strategist and when all else fails... .distraction   

[forestfortrees]

Holy cow. I hope this gets squared away soon and they hold on tight to Dad.

[DreamGirl]

Panda39,

I always love your perspective. Grounded, well read, and compassionate.

I'm sorry that your stepdaughters were let down again. It is hard to watch. Especially when we have to see the lessons being learned. I do think you're right, that it is just part of having a parent who struggles.

In therapy, I learned an important term when it comes to relationships: "Unmet expectations".

I share this with you because it's been important to me when it comes to learning how to not only help my children (step and bio alike) but in how to help myself when it comes to having a parent who caused me a lot of pain. (Yeah, I'm a Coping member too) Accepting your parent in all their glory can be the most freeing experience. It allows you to let go of expectations in a way where you're left room to love the person they are and not the person you wished they could be. Accept that their "best" may never be what you actually deserve (or want).

Mom was destined to fail here. BPD moms really struggle in this gig. One of the more valuable excerpts I've read about the manipulation surrounding a pwBPD was in Kreger's book: "just because you feel manipulated, does not mean it was the intent to manipulate."

I think that Mom wants all these wonderful things for her daughters. She's one of those people who believes that it will all just work out. I could totally see the BPDmama in my situation doing something along these lines --- banking on the fact that someone would feel bad enough for my stepdaughter to make it happen. Heck, I've been that person before rescuing one of them from a promise mom made or paying her portion with a promise to be paid back.

I say all of this because I just feel you're really on the right track when you suggest a $50 or $100 or $200 limit to how mom can help out. It avoids the "unmet expectations" that break our hearts the way they do.

I also wonder when you start talking about speaker phone conversations and SD "going off" with Dad cheering her on. Therapeutically, these would often be considered alienating tactics (even though mom is certainly worthy of being called out on her behavior). It's an important role that a parent can have to try and foster the relationship with the other parent in the best way possible. Sometimes that involves a therapist or a third party who is less emotionally involved. It's important that we allow a lot of room for them to figure this stuff out. Not see the disappointment in our faces. It really needs to be between a mother and a daughter.

 

Is your SD14 punishing mom by not talking to her?

In my experience, those children who are not in contact with their parent(s) really struggle the most. Whether it be the choice of the parent or the choice of the child. There is so much pain in those situations. I've witnessed it as the child who didn't speak to my father for 10 years and as the mother of a child whose father was absent until he was a teenager. I think it's a helpful tool (no contact) when both parties need a break, but with a plan to move forward in a relationship that has healthy boundaries and reasonable expectations.  

DreamGirl