How to set a boundary without setting off her "you're controlling me" alarm

[Processing]

I feel like I have some pretty big issues with boundaries in my relationship with my OCPD/BPD wife.  Pretty much I will put in a request or a boundary and she sees it as me trying to control her.  She then puts it back on me as though I am pretty awful because I am trying to control her.  Our most recent was a request for more affection from me.  My wife is most affectionate when she comes  to bed at night.  Well, in the summer, she stays up all night with the kids and never comes to bed.  So I told her I was feeling lonely and would like more affection.  I offered that maybe she could just come to bed for 5-10 minutes each night and say goodnight and be affectionate.  Then she could go back out and stay up all night if she wanted.  To her that was seen as me being very controlling and "making" her be affectionate.  To me, I thought I was being vulnerable and saying I needed a little more affection.  And, I thought I was meeting in the middle by saying just come to bed for like 5-10 minutes instead of what I would prefer which is to get the kids to bed at a decent hour and we go to bed together every night.    What is worse, sometimes, she agrees to something, then will not do it saying she was forced into it and is tired of being controlled.  The other option is that she will agree to do something, then do it grudgingly, making me feel like a total jerk for "making" her do it.

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[patientandclear]

A genuine boundary is the opposite of controlling, because it is you deciding what you will do and how you will act under certain circumstances.  A request is different and may often be experienced as invasive or controlling (which is not to say requests should always be avoided).  Boundaries would fit in this sentence structure: "because I value X, if Y happens, I will be doing Z."

It's really hard to "set a boundary" around your partner being affectionate.  You could say "if you're not affectionate, I will withdraw my affection," but that's a passive aggressive downward spiral.  Other tools discussed on this site may be more appropriate for that issue.

[vortex of confusion]

I want to echo what patientandclear said about it being difficult to set a boundary around something like affection.

Requests and boundaries are two very different things. The problem with requests is that they can easily be interpreted as demands.

With a boundary, it isn't a request. It is a non-negotiable and the intent is to protect yourself.

Are there other things about them staying up that bother you? Are they loud or noisy? Are there other times besides bedtime that the two of you can try to connect?

You are in a tricky situation. I don't know the dynamics in your house. To you, getting away for a few minutes to say good night might not seem like a big deal. To her, it might feel almost impossible. How old are your kids? Have you tried to help her get the kids to bed?

As the one that does almost all of the night time parenting, I can comment on how frustrating it can be to try to get the kids to bed and do all of the night time stuff while my husband gets to go to bed and go to sleep. I don't know if that is the case in your house. I wanted to toss that out there because that has been a big source of frustration for me over the years.

[maxsterling]

Remember,  boundaries are for the purpose of protecting you from being hurt, not about trying to get someone else to change their behavior.  And my feeling is that most boundaries are probably best not stated in advance, because if you state it in advance it will almost always sound controlling or blaming.

A pwBPD will probably interpret almost all boundaries as attempts at control.  Sometimes you can lessen the blow, but the reality is you are likely to get some kind of negative reaction no matter what. When I read your original post, I can completely relate.  Right now, my wife is ranting and raving about me controlling her, trapping her, and forcing her to do things.    As an example, last night she was upset because there isn't much food in the house.  I had previous plans for last night, which she knew about, and when I suggested we food shop when I got home, she accuse me of making her "wait around and conform to my schedule."  Yet, nothing at all stops her from going out and buying the food that she wants and cooking it herself.  Another complaint is that I never ask her what she wants for dinner.  Not true.  I ask, she never makes a decision.  And again, nothing at all is stopping her from going out and getting the food she wants to eat and cooking it herself.  If she wanted, she could cook dinner!

I hope this makes some sense. pwBPD = always feel like their problems are someone else's fault.  You can't cure that.

[an0ught]

Hi Processing,

telling your wife where the line is without having the means and the will to protect the line is just handing her a tool to wind you up when she feels like it.

The proper construction of first boundaries takes time and commitment. It is far from easy. Check out the workshops. It starts by

- being clear about your values

- being clear about the boundary

- being clear about what consequences YOU are going to accept

While this may all sound initially odd it does make sense. By keeping the consequences on our side we are not controlling and we can not be pushed over.

Boundaries are not free, carry risk and require commitment. Backing down usually makes matters worse than not having started in the first place. It also helps often to think through what to communicate in what case and what you don't want to communicate. This all takes some thinking and time. The workshops help to get started and the board can a good place to do a sanity check before you put things in motion.

[Processing]

An0ught,

This makes total sense when talking about tantrums.  If you raise your voice again I will ... .But how does this apply to affection or sex in a relationship.  If you don't show affection I'm going to ... .Or If you don't have sex with me I'm going to ... .there is no immediate recourse for someone refusing to show affection.  Sure in the long run, it can ruin a relationship, but in the short run, they have all the decision making power and any effort to set up a consequence around that is controlling.  So do you just have to accept that they will do what they want in this area that is so important to you. Or do you say If we don't have sex on Tues, I won't pick up milk on the way home on Wednesday.  If you don't kiss me in the morning, I won't go to work.  Haha!

[an0ught]

Hi Processing,

you are totally right and it is frustrating to no end. Yes, we can't use boundaries to get others to show affection. Boundaries are about our values and protecting our selfs. They are defensive and not controlling. They are one but not the only tool in your box. But boundaries are one of the most powerful tools in your box so when faced with a hard problem it is usually worth thinking on how boundaries could help here. If you use a tool in the way it is intended it has the most impact. Let's think this through and see where it gets us.

What do you want to protect? What do you really control? What price are you willing to pay for your protection?

What do you want to protect?

It sucks running after her and getting rejected all the time. It ruins your self esteem and it hands her more power than she can handle. Her respect of you.

What do you really control?

Yourself. You can refuse the responsibility to make the relationship work from one side alone. You can refuse to ask. You can reduce the ask frequency to e.g. once a week. You can ask maybe in ways that make it clearer in your own mind that you don't own this and make the rejection less hurtful. There is a range of options.

What price are you willing to pay?

Depending on the situation the stakes may be lower or higher. There may be risks or most possibly the risks have been mostly realized: Missing out on sex. Moving more towards sexless. Triggering abandonment on her side. Being accused of not loving her.


Boundaries won't help you directly getting her to become more affectionate. They may help with respect, self respect and re-balancing of power. Rebuilding the connection with her will require validation and the ability to navigate her boundaries. Respect can only provide a foundation here.

[waverider]

Boundaries are not to help you get what you want. They are to prevent you being negatively exposed to certain behaviors.

They are a safety switch.

To get someone to do something you need to create an environment which is condusive to them wanting to do something. ie increase the odds.  you can't force it to happen.

[mindwise]

... .To get someone to do something you need to create an environment which is condusive to them wanting to do something. ie increase the odds.  you can't force it to happen.

I agree.

It's more about courtship and seduction, not boundaries. 

[Oooohm]

This makes total sense when talking about tantrums.  If you raise your voice again I will ... .

Processing,

Keep in mind: When you set a boundary you do not discuss it with your wife.  It's not a "negotiation" and it's certainly not an ultimatum or a demand to be laid out before hand.  Boundaries are enforced "in the moment" to show her what you will and won't put up with. Over time she will learn (with your consistent enforcement) that certain behavior from her will not be tolerated, doesn't benefit her anymore, and is therefore a waste of her time.

[waverider]

This makes total sense when talking about tantrums.  If you raise your voice again I will ... .

Processing,

Keep in mind: When you set a boundary you do not discuss it with your wife.  It's not a "negotiation" and it's certainly not an ultimatum or a demand to be laid out before hand.  Boundaries are enforced "in the moment" to show her what you will and won't put up with. Over time she will learn (with your consistent enforcement) that certain behavior from her will not be tolerated, doesn't benefit her anymore, and is therefore a waste of her time.

The action can be explained, but not repeatedly, but as pointed out it should not be presented as a threat, as that is a controlling pro active aggressive action. rather than a personal defensive action.

If it was possible to negotiate a behavior then it probably doesn't need a boundary