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Author Topic: He still refuses to acknowledge he did any wrong  (Read 519 times)
Butterfly12
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« on: June 29, 2015, 05:08:04 AM »

Please help, I am so confused. Almost two years ago, my husband began to exhibit the characteristics of his BPD. He is undiagnosed, but I am fairly certain this is the problem. He has had severe depression and anxiety for years, and a history of mental disorders older then our relationship.

Two years ago, prior to our third child's birth, he essentially lost it. A few weeks prior to the end of my pregnancy and our child's birth, I got a PFA against him because I simply did not feel safe. He physically assaulted me numerous times. Charges were dropped, after court apprearances and many conversations. When our third child was three weeks old, he lost it again, and I had him arrested. He was taken in, but bailed out by a friend three hours later. He was sentenced and was unable to have contact with me for a year. When his sentence ended, we discussed healing our family and trying again.

We have been together for nine years and have three children together.

Here it is two years after the assault, and he still refuses to acknowledge he did any wrong. He blames me. He says the whole thing is my doing and that I am lying. He has many people who believe his story. He still says he wants to heal our family and be together, but he refuses to actually act upon this. He attends marriage counseling with me, but spends the whole of the time there threatening me and accusing me of doing this all to him.

I'm so confused. This wasn't the man I married, and wasn't the man I was with for seven years. How is this possible? Is there any hope he might come back? If he can't see his own role in this, I don't know what to do. I've owned my own anger, sadness and frustration. I've even tried owning more then is mine to own, and this does nothing. I feel so alone.
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Samuel S.
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« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2015, 09:54:20 AM »

Butterfly12, I am so very sorry that you have gone through this emotional and physical rollercoaster ride with your BPD. Even with the marriage counseling, he still refuses to take ownership of his own issues. Indeed, he truly is in denial. For your sake and for the sake of your children, let's hope and pray that he owns up and makes solid, significant, and everlasting changes in order to regain everybody's trust and so that there can be happiness.

My BPDw is not exactly like your BPD; however, she truly is in denial. She was verbally abusive for a good number of years, manipulative, just downright toxic in many respects. Now that she seems to be a little bit happier by working part-time and by going to school part-time to ultimately change her profession, she devotes extremely limited time with me, because she is so busy. She wants to be happy professionally, but she freely admits to having gone from being very loving to loving herself almost exclusively, thus being neglectful.

So, bottom line, she has been verbally abusive and now neglectful in our relationship. She too never once has held herself accountable for her actions towards me, and they have been absolutely horrible. In fact, I haven't read too many instances in which a BPD has owned up to their BPD behavior and to make solid, significant, everlasting changes. I guess once a BPD, always a BPD. They might change a little bit, but you, I, and the other nonBPDs live with the emotional hurt and damage and distrust as a result.

Butterfly12, I feel for you! Even with your marriage therapy, there has not been any change, but at least, he does it with you. Mine won't even consider it, because she is too busy. So, in this respect, you have the advantage. I would only suggest that you continue being expressive during your marriage therapy. Perhaps, with time, the BPD wall that he has will come crumbling down. Of course, you would like love, compassion, understanding, and trust, and so does he, but he obviously wishes to produce chaos instead of these positive characteristics.

The very best of luck to you! I hope there are many positive, permanent changes that take place within him for you and for your family. 
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« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2015, 11:00:37 AM »

Butterfly,

It's been awhile since I've read the lessons, but from my experience a big part of BPD is shame avoidance.  Therefore, everything is someone else's fault, or whatever was done was totally justified because the offending party "deserved it" or "made him/her" do it.  

I'm sorry it has escalated in to having to have the legal system involved, and that counseling seems to do little.  Counseling is a weird thing I think - I hated counseling when my BPD dad was going in right after me.  I knew nothing I said as a 15 year old was safe, so I just talked TV shows for my hour.  Weird thing, I guess the counselor never picked up my mortal fear of my father.  

FI had been doing really, really well, for almost 5 years he was less prone to outbursts and working hard to make up for lost time during his lesser motivated years... .but lately it's like we've gone back in time, where he likes to threaten to kick me out, cancel the wedding, because to him it's the only way I "listen" to him.    In his mind, things done on accident are on purpose, so I am trouble today for opening the door too wide while accepting a pizza order.  Now we will be broken into, robbed, because the pizza guy obviously saw our mediocre TV and will come back tor ob us, it's all my fault, I should be tossed into the street for having so little respect for him and his things (I bought at least half of what we own, having been working far longer), etc.

I know in the case of my mom, (both parents BPD - diagnosed bi-polar, yay!) she went from low-but-almost-almost functioning to not at all as she aged.  She can't keep a job, an apartment, and gets arrested for hot checks and shoplifting, and I have to be NC to stay even for myself.  I do not know your husband's age, but perhaps he's got some chemical-hormonal change issues that are making it more and more likely he will strike out, and not be able to return to any previous baseline of "normal" as you used to measure it.  He might also be feelings something akin to a "mid-life crisis", not happy with the life has has built, having more grandiose wants and desires, and needs to blame you and the kids for his lack.  

Anyway, I am sorry you are going through this - typing here is the only place I feel somewhat safe discussing things like this, because I know it would never make sense to friends and FI'd see it as a betrayal.  I'm apparently not supposed to talk about us, our life, or anything ever, good or bad, because it has the potential to "embarrass" him.  He thinks ppl look badly at him because in his mind I must complain about things at home (I don't), not realizing that it's a little obvious when I do most things around the house inside and out, have worked FT for 15 years to support us, when he only started working FT in 2007.  I don't HAVE to say anything - people can just see it.

Type on here - people will understand, and you CAN see success stories.  I feel that for a long time we improved, and know that a lot of recent events are just him being overwhelmed.  Work on what you need to do for you, an eventually your H might improve, too, as you improve your own dynamic.  
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Butterfly12
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« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2015, 01:43:52 PM »

Thank you so much for your kind responses.

I did not even realize I did not mention that we have been separated since the moment of his arrest. He doesn't live with us now, and won't even consider it. He doesn't trust me to not have him arrested again, which I understand is more like he doesn't trust himself to not put me in physical danger again. Ultimately, I feel safe within myself, but a little terrified of the anger I know is there in him. I do not worry about physical abuse occurring again because there is no time we are alone. Ever. Not even to talk, rebuild trust and understanding, nothing.

I have essentially been a single mother of three children for the past two years. My youngest was three weeks old when the assault occurred, and when it did I held my two youngest in my lap. He says over and over he wants to heal our family, but also puts up a huge wall saying I am the reason nothing has changed between us. I give him every single thing he wants- I've gotten two jobs to support my children and myself so he doesn't have the full burden of support on his shoulders. I've given him half time with our children, while knowing that the more I give the more he will take.

I don't know what to do.

I have felt all along that this was not really HIM. For the first seven years, he was sane, kind, sweet, generous; although like everyone had days where he was stressed out or unhappy. I keep hoping he will come back, that man I loved... .After two years I feel pathetic to hold on to this hope, but I do.

:'(
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« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2015, 03:18:31 PM »

You definitely aren't alone here... .

The reality is that pwBPD have a difficult time owning up to the damage they did.  Typically, apologies (if you get one) follow the "I'm sorry but... .you... ."  format.   It's been two years.  Perhaps it's time to examine if you need him to own up in order to move forward, or if there is a way you can just heal yourself and let go.

Someone told me recently that "expectations are premeditated resentments."  I think that's true.  I know that in the case of my wife, I can't move forward unless I let go of any expectations I may have for her.  I'm dealing with the same as you right now.  She physically assaulted me, attempted suicide, and yet she is blaming me for calling the police.  She claims she does not feel safe with me because I may call police on her again. 

My best advice to you is to let go of any expectation of him acknowledging anything, practice some self care, and deeply think about whether or not you can move forward with him knowing that he may never acknowledge his behavior.  Another reality is that he may acknowledge it but still do the same thing again, or he may not acknowledge it and yet slowly change his behavior.  I find it's best to make decisions based upon what is in your own heart rather than based upon what a pwBPD does or doesn't do. 

I know how tough this is.  hang in there 
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Butterfly12
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2015, 06:17:23 AM »

The more I read, the more I understand that it might be as simple as he just doesn't think these things happened. Not that he is in denial, but that he might just not remember. Reading about other pwBPD, I understand this is a common thing. Not only did he assault me, but he trashed the house, screaming and yelling, all the while saying he was going to "take the kids away from me," and that I "was crazy, a bad mother," etc.

Is this possible? And I understand I need to just let go of these events from two years ago... .but learning how to handle him NOW stems back to his inability to forgive me for "lying" about him and "trashing his reputation socially for no reason." He holds on to it all. I don't know how to regain his trust and move on with our lives in a way that doesn't break my heart.

I understand taking care of myself and my children. Meeting my own needs and fulfilling my life wishes. I can do this. But I don't want to loose my husband and our family.
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2015, 07:20:36 AM »

I understand I need to just let go of these events from two years ago... .but learning how to handle him NOW stems back to his inability to forgive me for "lying" about him and "trashing his reputation socially for no reason." He holds on to it all.

This is a big reason I have not attempted to make contact. It was a huge problem in our relationship. You are not alone butterfly. How are you doing today?
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waverider
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 07:53:22 AM »

To own something you don't know how to change opens a person to hopelessness, self loathing and depression.

To own is a threat of frightening proportions.

This is why it is blocked ferociously, triggering fight or flight reactions.

It is not until the threat of consequences are removed, and the promise of a way forward can be seen, that pwBPD will be prepared to contemplate this challenge.

It is a chicken and egg situation that is hard to break
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Daniell85
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2015, 08:05:10 AM »

How can "the threat of consequences" be removed?

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waverider
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2015, 08:15:50 AM »

How can "the threat of consequences" be removed?

That is the difficult part as most of it is just his perception.

To him the worst consequences are that he alone will be held accountable for 'everything" not just his part. He will be labelled forever as a failure.

He will know these things happened, but will have completely rewritten their context and totally minimized their importance to you. They are not important to him now, and so are irrelevant for him now.
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Butterfly12
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 08:37:17 AM »



"He will know these things happened, but will have completely rewritten their context and totally minimized their importance to you. They are not important to him now, and so are irrelevant for him now."



I'm really confused by this statement. So how do I create safety? How do I remove "the threat of consequence"?
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Daniell85
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 09:04:39 AM »

I am interested in a way forward on this, too. As I am in the same sort of situation. My boyfriend caused a lot of injury to me, and if I show the hurt or worse frustration, he rages at me, and uses it to attack me, give me long bouts of silent treatment.

Like Butterfly12, it WAS an injury that has long term emotional and mental consequences for the recipient. The damage is there, the person who did it is in denial.
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Butterfly12
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 09:06:56 AM »

Exactly, Daniell85.

what now.
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 09:24:54 AM »

Hi, My stbx husband and I went through the same thing... .after I called to police and the charges were dropped, he  said the same thing. It was my fault and he is afraid of me now. It escalated into him having affairs because he wanted out of the relationship. He says too much has happened between us and he is afraid of me. Seems crazy, but I am trying my best to let this all go, knowing it would only get worse in time. He has not changed and is doing all the triangulation and lying to his new GF the got the minute our separation was settled. Obviously he was working on this before hand. Counseling never worked for us or him... .we tried many, many times. They would just give him drugs and he would abuse them. I wish you all the best, but keep studying. I think learning about it all is the key. When it comes to abuse, the domestic violence support you get all say it will only get worse and worse, because  you except him back. You do have a boundary and I don't think they like that. It's hard to tell, since everyone is different. Best of luck... .
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Butterfly12
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 11:03:18 AM »

That's just it. He would never have an affair. Ever. And that's one of the things about him. He withheld affection from me for the year before he was arrested. We haven't made love in over 2 and a half years. The last time was when our child was conceived. It is a major part of our relationship that he withholds affection to control me and make me go insane... .as I am the type of woman who likes love. I just do. And he knows it.

I am dead certain he would go for years in abstinence to simply prove a point and to make it harder. I almost believe he is waiting for ME to drop and have an affair. But being a single mother of three who is love with her husband... .that's just not going to happen.

I'm just so lost.

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MaroonLiquid
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2015, 11:53:29 AM »

To own something you don't know how to change opens a person to hopelessness, self loathing and depression.

To own is a threat of frightening proportions.

This is why it is blocked ferociously, triggering fight or flight reactions.

It is not until the threat of consequences are removed, and the promise of a way forward can be seen, that pwBPD will be prepared to contemplate this challenge.

It is a chicken and egg situation that is hard to break

This is exactly why my wife retains her denial.  She knows my family knows the truth about her (and asks what lies I've told them... .) and to "own it" is frightening.  It's easier to divorce than to face it and her demons.
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waverider
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2015, 05:43:24 PM »

"He will know these things happened, but will have completely rewritten their context and totally minimized their importance to you. They are not important to him now, and so are irrelevant for him now."



I'm really confused by this statement.

Memories of this can pop up years down the track if is useful to validate a different issue that arises. The facts most likely twisted to suit.

So how do I create safety? How do I remove "the threat of consequence"?

You can't do this he has to come to this understanding himself either via a crisis or with counselling without you. Your presence is threatening as you know a different reality, and you become that avenue for projecting blame.

If he wants you back then these are the changes he has to make. We get stuck thinking we can fix BPD, we can't, we can only reduce unnecessary triggers and perception of blaming can be attributed to us.

You can only ensure your safety by staying away until real sustained improvements are made
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Butterfly12
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« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2015, 04:00:12 AM »

And if the improvements are not made? Then what? I have tried so hard for so long to make things better and all it feels to do is make it worse.

I'm so disheartened.
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Daniell85
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« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2015, 04:27:05 AM »

It sounds like waverider is saying do less, not more. It takes the burden of "fixing" off of you, puts it squarely on your husband, where it actually belongs.

your job then, is to take care of you and your children and focus on your healing and such.

Sometimes when left on their own, people do actually start thinking and realizing they have a job to do with themselves.

It can be so hard, I know what it's like, to just think somehow I can do something, anything to fix all. A hard thing is having to sit with not doing anything at all, really.   I am there, too.
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waverider
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« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2015, 04:39:59 AM »

And if the improvements are not made? Then what? I have tried so hard for so long to make things better and all it feels to do is make it worse.

I'm so disheartened.

Some people will choose never to try to improve, no matter how much help or encouragement they get.

You can only do your best and make sure you don't go down with the ship. Its sad to see but unfortunately thats the way it is.
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Butterfly12
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« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2015, 05:24:05 AM »

Ok.

The hardest thing is that his fundamentalist religious upbringing just enables and nurtures this in him. His family says nothing. They stand by him regardless of the actions he takes. They do not tell him ever he is out of line or anything. It's so hard to see and makes me out to be the bad guy... .over and over and over. I am utterly alone in my prayers for things to change. They, and he, see it as "all me." Which of course they do. They live 2000 miles away and hear about it all from a jaded perspective.

I do try and focus on the children and myself. Just the feeling of loss is sometimes so overwhelming. I don't understand how things could have gotten so bad so quickly. And here we are, two years later, still caught in the waves.
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Daniell85
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« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2015, 11:56:46 AM »

Being blamed for everything is really disheartening. I know what it's like, I have ended being the scapegoat a lot, it's like great, the bad thing happened to me, and it hurts so much and now it's all my fault too

Well here you are, willing to try and you have your hand out to him. He refuses to take it because his brain is caught in his own shame and avoidance. That is on him. Not you.
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« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2015, 12:36:48 PM »

I have tried so hard for so long to make things better and all it feels to do is make it worse.

I'm so disheartened.

Been there, done that   I know how you feel.  You love him, you want things to change, you feel like you are jumping through hoops on your end, sacrificing yourself, and you see no progress.  And then he blames the lack of progress on your inaction. 

While it's seems almost impossible, and certainly takes a long time to get into this mindset, you have to shift the focus on you and accept his behavior for what it is.  You've tried to change for him in hopes of changing him, and you are left frustrated and exhausted.  I know the feeling too well.  In some kind of twisted reality, letting him go is maybe the best thing you can do for him, because it takes you out of the line of fire and forces him to examine himself, should he choose to do so.

I was having a conversation with my Alanon sponsor a few weeks ago regarding an order of protection I may serve against my wife.  I was having a hard time coming to grips with the idea of having a court mandated no-contact period served against a woman I just married and still love, and that being the end to the relationship.  His response was to consider my needs, and that having such an order served may be in the long run a good thing for her.  She expressed that she feels trapped, unhappy, miserable, hates me, etc.  If that is the case, I let her go, force her to take care of herself, and that could be the most loving thing I can do for her. 
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« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2015, 12:43:19 PM »

Been there, done that   I know how you feel.  You love him, you want things to change, you feel like you are jumping through hoops on your end, sacrificing yourself, and you see no progress.  And then he blames the lack of progress on your inaction.  While it's seems almost impossible, and certainly takes a long time to get into this mindset, you have to shift the focus on you and accept his behavior for what it is. 

This is spot on Max!  Accepting his bahavior is hard.  It took me months to accept my wife's.  It isn't easy.

You've tried to change for him in hopes of changing him, and you are left frustrated and exhausted.  I know the feeling too well.

 

Me too.  I had to get over changing for her and just change myself regardless... .

In some kind of twisted reality, letting him go is maybe the best thing you can do for him, because it takes you out of the line of fire and forces him to examine himself, should he choose to do so.

This is the hardest thing for me to do because I don't want to think of a possibility of my wife and I not spending the rest of our lives together.  I know she won't go away totally because her daughter is on my softball team, but the thought of her finding someone else does bother me.  Maybe the opposite bothers her too... .
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« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2015, 06:02:25 PM »

You learn about BPD, start to understand it, learn new tools and ways to conduct yourself. You are ready to take the train out of BPD land. However he won't get off his broken down train, because that is his comfort zone. he know nowhere different.

He will blame you for not driving his train, even though he wont let you touch it, as that is perceived as controlling. To him there is nothing wrong with it, it has always been that way. To him you can't drive trains and yours obviously must be going the wrong way.

You can either stay in the station, or start your journey and it is up to him if he wants to jump on your train or not.
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« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2015, 01:10:10 PM »

My BPD ex shows absolutely no remorse for ruining my life, she loved me more than anything and now it's like I never existed. Put all the blame on me and since not even a how are you. It's heartbreaking.

Even over the little things she didn't care, one day she got up before me and took a shower, she never did that, so once she had left the bathroom I asked if it was ok to use it. She replied why wouldn't it be? Along with a look of pure hatred. Completely irrational anger.

Helps knowing I'm not the only one! Only been 2 months since my break up and I'm still devastated.

Hope you are doing ok and can recover!
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