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Author Topic: New Communication techniques causing anxiety in BPD partner  (Read 437 times)
satahal
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« on: July 08, 2015, 10:39:27 AM »

I've recently been using SET and validation. Also, reading some books and attempting to step out of "caretaker" role.

I'm wondering if more experienced folks on here can tell me if there is an adjustment period in which they are upset over the changes we are making but then grow accustomed to them? And, do we go through a phase of hyper-awareness of their problematic behavior and engage in avoidance?

My BPD partner of 8 years is very anxious as a result of my new use of SET, validation and boundaries.

He was in a mood last week - angry and resentful, silent treatment, generally sprinkling eggshells around the place every moment he was home. I consistently used validation and SET. It didn't shift his mood one iota but it definitely prevented raging and arguing. I considered it a success.

Then his anxiety set in - contacting me obsessively, accusing me of being cold and clinical, snooping on my phone for evidence of an affair, etc. I thought this was the extinction burst perhaps. I decided to explain that I was working on better communication skills so that we might argue less and he would feel like I was listening to him and understanding his feelings. This seemed a little like JADE but I felt to not explain a sudden shift in my behavior would be a sort of gas-lighting.

He calmed down for about 12 hours and then launched again into a tailspin. Luckily he had therapy scheduled so he calmed again after that.

Now, I'm noticing all the ways he zings me even when he's not in a hostile mood. I can barely stand to converse with him. He's a contrarian. He uses subtle comments, body language, tone to express disapproval if I don't get up when he gets up or respond to a text immediately. He grills me if he becomes aware of any interactions with other men, even at work or a service person. I'm like a racehorse getting tapped with the riding crop continually as he corrects, punishes or adjusts every behavior and utterance that comes out of me.

I'm attempting to avoid a bunch of conversational topics that I know will end in contention and I don't take the bait anymore when he tries to provoke, which drives him nuts.

The end result is we aren't as close or connected - I know our connection was toxic before but without it there's not much left! There are few safe topics or activities. One book I'm reading basically says don't ever express your feelings to the BPD; avoid discussions that involve beliefs and stick to activities that involve less talking like movies or biking or hiking. Easier said than done. And sex, don't even get me started - I have no desire to have sex with him now. Just so turned off to him.

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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2015, 04:20:56 PM »

It did indeed cause anger and anxiety in my pwPD because she was not used to this new communication style.  She was so used to getting a "rise" out of people with her raging and arguing.  She has gone on for hours trying to make me to engage her.  Just this past Friday, she got so angry that I would not engage her.  She got into such a tizzy that she brought on a seizure in herself.  She has been seizure free for about four moths.  The interesting thing about that is that when she came out of it.  She was as docile as a kitten and has been until today.  It was like she needed to "reset" herself in a way to the new communication style.
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2015, 04:38:09 PM »

The new communication techniques will take some time. They will generally keep trying to buck the system, falling back on old habits trying to get their way in the matter they are used to. Over time, it will work and get better.

It's sort of like when you start a new punishment on a child for the first time. They keep pushing and pushing just to see if you really mean it, and if you stick to it eventually they fall into line.
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2015, 06:15:34 PM »

Yep.  They notice the change.  They don't know what the change means, they assume it means you don't love them anymore, and then you face whatever retaliation comes though their brain. 

I think it drives my wife nuts that I don't scream or curse back at her.  I think she interprets that as me not caring.  And boundaries?  Forget it!  She interprets that as me punishing her, trying to control her, etc. 

Think of it this way - I'm sure you get a little uneasy when someone near you changes.  If you can calmly think through it, you may see your role in the change or see the change as positive.  pwBPD are hyper-aware, hyper-anxious, and all change is met with extreme uncontrollable emotions.  A new policy for janitorial service at work may be enough for them to quit their jobs.  You changing your work hours may be enough for them to break up with you. 
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« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2015, 07:01:34 PM »

I'm wondering if more experienced folks on here can tell me if there is an adjustment period in which they are upset over the changes we are making but then grow accustomed to them? And, do we go through a phase of hyper-awareness of their problematic behavior and engage in avoidance?

Yes, there is an adjustment period. When they don't get the response they expect, it upsets their world. The technical term for it is "extinction burst". Here is a thread about extinction bursts: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0;all

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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 08:44:45 AM »

Hi samanthal,

don't take the bait. Changes are upsetting and pwBPD are sensitive. At times it can be important to manage the pace of change.

Be careful with boundaries. Be clear where you have them and where not. Getting the most important ones in place and being super consistent about them is more important than having "new rules" in many places.

Excerpt
I'm attempting to avoid a bunch of conversational topics that I know will end in contention and I don't take the bait anymore when he tries to provoke, which drives him nuts.

Keep in mind that you can't fix him. So if he is not ready to talk sometimes it can be better to acknowledge that and do something else for yourself. Both sides own 50% of the relationship.

Excerpt
One book I'm reading basically says don't ever express your feelings to the BPD; avoid discussions that involve beliefs and stick to activities that involve less talking like movies or biking or hiking.

It would be a dead relationship if we could not express ourselves. At times we need to hold back - we should not enter such talk without a minimum of thinking. But if we use SET properly and take care that the other side is somewhat calm and not threatened then our emotions are the T in seT.
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 08:56:01 AM »

link please 
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satahal
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 09:31:11 AM »

Thank you everyone for your feedback. It's been a rough week - no rages but his anxiety is still very high. He comes out of it for a few hours and then suddenly he's highly agitated for no apparent reason - he must ruminate on some morsel of a conversation and ramp himself up again.

We brought tickets for a show that happens tonight. He was very excited to go and in the best mood he's been in for two weeks last night. This morning after he left for the day I get an email saying to find someone else to go with because "we don't have much fun together anymore." It's martyr time.

I feel like he's looking for a lot of reassurance and I'm assuming it's ok to give it - I'm not going to do any JADEing but rather just reassure him that I love him and like spending time together (not entirely true these days but I don't see much utility and telling him he drives me nuts).

The hypersensitivity is no joke. He can detect a muscle twitch from 50 paces and concoct an entire storyline from it. I feel like there's a list in my brain of what not to say or do that I check myself against a thousand times a day, and yet, I still provoke his insecurity.

Maybe I am changing too quickly and I need to slow the pace a bit.
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 09:39:08 AM »

Hi married21years,

link please 

I assume a link on SET: You can see it a bit in Shatra's post in the SET workshop here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.msg1401387#msg1401387 . Please work through the workshop, through the validation workshops and spend 1h on the Fruzzetti video on validation.

Often we are angry and there are lots of things bottled up. A complementary thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=214481.0;all

Getting our emotions out in controlled manner is key as otherwise we surely overload the other side. With T we want to share our view. T should be reasonably short, to the point and not accusatory. To work as truth it should be assertive i.e. clear that we feel it. At the same time we protect our feelings by having a boundary not JADE ing them. It is ok if the other side does not get it straight away. Not our problem - they are still valid and ours.

A well formulated truth needs little pushing. It may fall on deaf ears at the beginning but it has a tendency to cut later and often deep.

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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 09:42:51 AM »

The hypersensitivity is no joke. He can detect a muscle twitch from 50 paces and concoct an entire storyline from it.

Wow, that sounds quite sensitive indeed. Looks like he is really struggling to trust.

I feel like there's a list in my brain of what not to say or do that I check myself against a thousand times a day, and yet, I still provoke his insecurity.

From what you say I sense that you are now hyper-vigilant. What about a bit less checking - only the really justified checks? Rather than avoiding any upset totally risk some upsets and manage them better by avoiding JADE and using validation.
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satahal
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 09:52:43 AM »

Thanks an0ught.

Yes, he's struggling to trust. He's been struggling to trust since day one. I don't understand why but he just can't believe I love him and want to be with him - even early on when I was head over heels and blissfully un-beaten down by the BPD. I suspect this is a combination of the disorder and projection - he's been unfaithful and probably still is - he still goes MIA and lies - if a little less than before, and I still occasionally get wind of inappropriateness with his ex.

I am in a state of hyper-vigilance. That's a great idea to check less and manage better - thank you. What a relief it would be to check less!

I hate how much brain space managing him takes up - I feel like I'm short changing myself, my work, my kids - everything because my energy is spent keeping him calm and secure. It's like a baby (that analogy comes up a lot around here). You know, if the baby is screaming and fussing there's no peace in the house, so first you have to get the baby changed and fed and comfortable before you can do anything else.
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2015, 10:20:09 AM »

I am in a state of hyper-vigilance. That's a great idea to check less and manage better - thank you. What a relief it would be to check less!

Think of it as a boundary as a rule for you. There are consequences of doing less.

I hate how much brain space managing him takes up - I feel like I'm short changing myself, my work, my kids - everything because my energy is spent keeping him calm and secure. It's like a baby (that analogy comes up a lot around here). You know, if the baby is screaming and fussing there's no peace in the house, so first you have to get the baby changed and fed and comfortable before you can do anything else.

Unlike a real baby this one can change diapers when a rash develops. Often the full diaper drama call for help is not about the s* but about getting emotional support. The challenge - over some time - is to wean him off creating drama and moving towards more validating communication in general.
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satahal
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2015, 10:49:24 AM »

So, are you saying that his acting out is a dysfunctional way of seeking out proof of my love for him?

If so, could proactively professing my love and doing little things to show him I'm thinking of him preempt some of the theatrics?
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2015, 11:03:49 AM »

So, are you saying that his acting out is a dysfunctional way of seeking out proof of my love for him?

If so, could proactively professing my love and doing little things to show him I'm thinking of him preempt some of the theatrics?

No  Professing love is usually invalidating when someone is fearing abandonment!

He is in dire need of validation. He is a baby. He needs attention  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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satahal
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2015, 11:08:19 AM »

maybe I can get a really big front-carrier and just keep him strapped to my chest all day 
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2015, 11:24:12 AM »

So, are you saying that his acting out is a dysfunctional way of seeking out proof of my love for him?

If so, could proactively professing my love and doing little things to show him I'm thinking of him preempt some of the theatrics?

You should be proactive about "testing the water" before expressing love to him.

So... walk up to him with glass of ice water... .offer it to him but be neutral in the way you talk to him.  Maybe a gentle pat on shoulder or back. 

If there is a snarl... .ask about what he is feeling... .you are looking for something to validate.

If he comments on the niceness of the icewater... .or receives it positively... .go for an expression of love... .then move along.

Last... .do you understand what "invalidation" is?  It is a super important topic... .but most "nons" don't really understand it.

FF
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2015, 11:29:14 AM »

Formflier,

I don't know anything about invalidation. I suppose it makes sense to dig into some reading about that.

I know my pwBPD is not always receptive to my proclamations of love - doesn't get angry but does various things to push me away. Then the next day he is needy as can be or angry and needy - he seems to demand demonstrations of love and affection when he is so prickly that I wouldn't dream of going near him or when he's been so hurtful I don't want to.

Why is expressing love invalidating?
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2015, 11:32:10 AM »

 

OK... .this is CRITICAL... .that you understand this concept.

I'll try to be back soon with a link to a lesson.

FF
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2015, 11:32:56 AM »

thank you!
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2015, 11:34:26 AM »



Several links to look at.

The one immediately below is the critical one...

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-dont-be-invalidating

Please look over these... and the post here about your first reactions to what you have read.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/communication-skills-validation

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62266.0


FF
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2015, 11:36:05 AM »

thank you!

You are most welcome.  I was the beneficiary of many helpful people when I first showed up.

I'm glad to pass it along.

Also... .you are going to embark on a lifelong learning about things... .never stop learning.

It helps me to work through these things... .again... and again... .

I think I have gotten the invalidation thing down... .but... .validation is still a struggle for me.

 

We are here for you... .you can do this!

FF
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2015, 12:16:18 PM »

I want to reiterate how important it is to not invalidate. For me, I think it helped most when I stopped invalidating.

You asked how professing love could be invalidating. It is invalidating because it contradicts what he is feeling. If he is feeling unlovable and unloved, telling him that he is loved invalidates his feelings.

Something else that I have discovered is that it really helps me and my husband both when I am more honest and reframe things so that they aren't focused so much on love.

For example, we might be having a conversation about something and he will pull out something negative about himself. I can say something like, "I sometimes feel crappy about myself too. It sucks to feel that way." Or, there have been times when I have said stuff like, "You are right. It is sometimes difficult to deal with you and I don't always have those loving feelings towards you. Being with you is a choice that I make every day. I choose to be with you even when you are difficult and even when you drive me crazy. I know this will pass."

If he is sensing that you aren't feeling good about him, telling him how much you love him seems a bit like a lie and he can tell that. Does that make sense? Not quite sure how to explain it. I have gotten a lot more honest with him and myself. The key is to find ways of communicating that are not mean.

Like FF says, you need to test the waters before saying much of anything.
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2015, 12:56:11 PM »

I am still learning about invalidation, myself. Just this past Monday, I came on here to rant without even realizing I invalidated my husband. Long story short he was throwing a fit about not being able to see out of the car windows while driving in the rain. I said to him I would drive if he can't see, because I could see just fine.

What I had done there without even realizing it was tell him that if I can see and he can't... .obviously his assessment of the windows is wrong, and I'm better at driving than him. That's not what I meant... .I simply meant I didn't mind driving if he was having a tough time.

Excerpt
You asked how professing love could be invalidating. It is invalidating because it contradicts what he is feeling. If he is feeling unlovable and unloved, telling him that he is loved invalidates his feelings.

VoC has the perfect example here. Think of everything that you say has to get pushed through a "BPD filter". Since it has to go through that BPD filter, we need to select our words more carefully. It's going to take awhile to get this down. I'm a year in, and I still screw up sometimes.
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2015, 01:01:22 PM »

Thanks FF and VofC and CE.

That helps. I can see where professing love when I'm clearly recoiling and annoyed would be less than reassuring. Makes a lot of sense.

Right now we are in a wicked extinction burst so it's all very heightened. I just started communicating differently a few weeks ago (at least on a full time basis) and he's highly sensitive and agitated.

I'm going to keep reading, and practicing and learning about the BPD filter. Hopefully between gaining new skills and this extinction burst burning itself out, things will calm down a bit soon.
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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2015, 02:00:32 PM »

That helps. I can see where professing love when I'm clearly recoiling and annoyed would be less than reassuring. Makes a lot of sense.

I don't think that this is something unique to people with BPD. I am thinking about all of the times that my husband has said such wonderful things to me. My husband has never been one to call me names or say ugly things to me. During our entire relationship, he has painted me as some kind of a saint. In my mind, it seems like a bunch of crap because his actions do not align with the words that he is saying. If I am so great and wonderful, then why does he do certain things. Why doesn't he want to spend time with me more often? Why doesn't he do the little things that he used to do way back when?

I spent so much time focusing on the fact that his actions and attitudes didn't match his words that I didn't realize that my actions/attitudes weren't matching my words either. I would be annoyed yet tell him how much I loved him and that nothing was wrong when the reality is that a lot of things were wrong, I just didn't know how to communicate with him. I think I even told him that at one point. Oddly enough, it made a huge difference.
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« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2015, 02:06:59 PM »

I am still learning about invalidation, myself. Just this past Monday, I came on here to rant without even realizing I invalidated my husband. 

This is a big part of this forum!  We can come here and not worry about our "filter"s or saying things right.  We can lay it all out there... .and then have others help us sort it out.

So... while we want to teach people how to best communicate with pwBPD at home... you can come here... .and just "say it"... .and then have others help sort it out.

FF
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« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2015, 02:57:40 AM »

maybe I can get a really big front-carrier and just keep him strapped to my chest all day 

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