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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Ex is using 4 year old to find out information on me  (Read 462 times)
razemarie
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Ended relationship 1 year ago. Practice limited contact (LC) due to son, together 8 years
Posts: 165


« on: July 13, 2015, 08:51:46 PM »

My BPDexfiance and I have a four year old son together.  We have never had a court arrangement and I have cared for him over 95% of the time since the day he was born. My ex has chosen to have him every other Friday and Saturday but nothing beyond that. He rarely saw him at all during the first year of his life. He is an alcoholic who has been in recovery for over a year now. He pays me a minimal amount per month that he pre-determined and up until now, this has worked for me.  Because for the first time in eight years I finally had some peace. I was free of the relationship and to me it was worth the heartache and financial stress.  I have made due by living on a very strict budget and not relying on his money because it has always been sporadic.  For those of you who know my story, my ex has refused to let go. He is a waif and extremely dependent on the way I used to take care of him. I left him, so it became a challenge for him to try and win me back. Things have come a long way but he used to threaten suicide on a daily basis to try and rope me back in.  I would receive between 10-30 texts per day.  This went on for two years until I finally found this site, reported it to the police, stopped all contact with him (unless it is directly related to our son and only through email) and got myself some counseling.  The issue I am running into now is that he has become obsessed with finding out if I am dating.  He is doing this through our son and it breaks my heart. When he calls I can hear him ask all sorts of questions about what mommy is doing and who we see. When my son comes home from his house, he tells me that daddy is getting a new house for him and mommy to come live at. He tells me that daddy misses and loves me and wants us to be a family. I try to stay upbeat and play it off but I need to address this. As for dating, I am very gaurded with my free time and made a resolution to myself a long time ago that I will never bring a guy I am dating around my son unless I am sure he won't be going anywhere.  So there is no reason for him to question me. He is just trying to regain his control over me.  Obviously I want to keep my contact with him as limited as possible but at the same time I need to set some boundaries around this kind of behavior. Any advice on how to approach this? Are there things I can do now to protect my son against his dad's behavior or is it best that I not bring it up with him? He is still pretty young and innocent in all of this.  He has never seen us fight or anything in front of him and I always act positive about his dad. I want him to grow up as unaffected by all of this as possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated from the bottom of this worn-out, single mama's heart.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2015, 05:34:16 PM »

Being a single parent is tiring, I feel for you. My ex is also an alcoholic, and is now pretty much out of S14's life.

When visitation was still active, n/BPDx grilled S14 for information about me, and it was devastating for S14 (who was younger then, 9-12). We had, and still have, a strong bond, but the intensity of those visits and his dad's steam roller tactics was too much for S14, so he offered up a lot of information, and came home from visitation with a lot of junk I had to listen to.

In Warshak's book, Divorce Poison, he talks about teaching kids the difference between keeping secrets, lying, privacy, withholding information. This helps your child navigate the moral fuzzing that goes on in these custody situations. Warshak has movies and books on his site that are intended as guides, things you can do with your child and talk about without actually talking about the other parent.

Another thing I learned to do, that worked well for us, was to ask validating questions. If my son came to me with, ":)ad says you married him because you are a gold digger" my response was, "How did that make you feel when he said that?" The other parent puts our kid in the middle. This is a way to put our kid in the center. It helps teach them how to pay attention to their own feelings instead of trying to figure out who is lying to them. There is not one single time my son asked me something (based on what N/BPDx had probed him about) that he ever pursued -- when we focused on how he felt, that's what mattered. He knows in his heart who I am, and I didn't need to defend myself. And I learned that he is wise and insightful and "got it" more than I imagined.

If you validate, your child will trust you and keep talking to you. At one point, during the worst of our custody battle, S14 clammed up. He had had enough of anything to do with family life and stopped talking. This is when things become very fragile -- they have no one they trust to talk to.

Validate, validate, validate. Don't feel like you have to defend yourself.
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razemarie
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Gender: Female
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Ended relationship 1 year ago. Practice limited contact (LC) due to son, together 8 years
Posts: 165


« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 08:35:55 PM »

Thank you for your insightful advice. I really like the concept of putting my son at the center, and not in the middle. Validating his feelings and talking through them. My son and I have a very close bond. I want him to know that he can always come to me and that there will never be any repercussions to anything his dad says. Hopefully if I establish that trust early in life he will know that I will always be his home base. My focus is going to be on remaining neutral when it comes to his dad and not putting adult issues on my son's shoulders.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2015, 06:50:38 AM »

I should add that there are times when you do need to correct false allegations -- it's good to read Warshak's book about when to do this. In other words, validate the valid. Don't validate the invalid!

If a serious false allegation came up that was not true, I often waited and circled back. Other times, I dealt with it directly. For example, if your ex tells S4 that you are dating a pedophile. This type of thing has to be dealt with directly. You can still use validating questions to check first if your child believes it (which might be more likely the younger he is). "How did you feel when dad said that?" Or, "Wow, why do you think dad said that?" And then set the record straight.
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razemarie
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Ended relationship 1 year ago. Practice limited contact (LC) due to son, together 8 years
Posts: 165


« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2015, 09:10:22 PM »

Thank you. Your examples are helpful. I feel better prepared for things that come up in the future.  It feels good to have a place to go to for advice. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Turkish
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Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12105


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2015, 10:01:16 PM »

When my son had just turned 5 he said to me one night, "this is Mommy's house." I said that, no, it was my house. Mommy moved out. But when he and his sister lived here, it was their house too. He countered, "Mommy moved out because the house was messy." I redirected, "Its the job of everyone in the home to help keep it clean. That's why I tell you and D2 to pick up your toys. Mommy moved out because she and I didn't love each other anymore. He said, "Mommies and Daddies belong together." I put my hand on his shoulder and said, "you're right, buddy, they do, but sometimes things happen." He seemed satisfied with that.

Though unlike my Ex (who's lying to protect her children herself, your H is going into waif mode. However, there's nothing wrong with telling the truth, age appropriately.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
razemarie
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Ended relationship 1 year ago. Practice limited contact (LC) due to son, together 8 years
Posts: 165


« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2015, 02:53:24 PM »

My son has been asking more questions lately.  I have always considered it a plus that he has never known a life where his dad and I were together (we moved out when my son was only two months old), so this is all he has known. I think he is starting to realize that most of his friends have a mom and a dad who live together.  I simply told him that his dad and I both love him to pieces, but that we don't get along when we try to live together. He seemed ok with that answer.  I think anything more detailed than that will go right over his head.
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newlifeBPDfree
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Relationship status: Divorced
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 02:51:38 PM »

The same is happening to me. Only my 12-year old daughter is old enough to know better yet she is willingly providing all types of information to my husband. She also gives him access to my apartment and yesterday she even logged him into my laptop. It's almost like she is a little puppet or a trained soldier and they are teaqming up against me.
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momtara
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2015, 03:30:21 PM »

My life is very similar to yours. My ex wants me back and I pretty much took care of everything for him. He's not addicted to anything but always said he was in pain and thus I took care of everything for him and our kids and one of the kids is the same age as yours.

He is more sly about grilling the kids. When he picks them up for visits I just talk about how I'm going to clean the house all weekend, stuff like that. I don't do much dating etc. I don't know if your ex sucks you in with this stuff, but it's hard to ignore those kinds of pleas from someone you once truly loved.

I don't think you can say anything to your son to guard against what your ex asks him. Kids that age don't really understand nuance and sometimes they get things wrong anyway. If you say something to your son like ":)addy asks silly questions, doesn't he?" he may just go repeat that to your ex.

As he gets older, I don't know. For now I'd do what you are doing and not bring men around or talk on the phone in front of your son. You may want to ask a kiddie psychiatrist what else you could do.

You also might look up the "grey rock" way to deal with an ex narcissist who still loves you, although I've found it doesn't work much. It doesn't hurt, though.

Message me if you ever want to talk - it's such a weird situation to be in. Most people on this board have exes who have moved on to others, so it's complicated to deal with one who still wants you back and harasses you to engage you.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 04:50:39 PM »

I simply told him that his dad and I both love him to pieces, but that we don't get along when we try to live together. He seemed ok with that answer.  I think anything more detailed than that will go right over his head.

"How do you feel about that?" is a good question to ask in response.

Or "do you feel loved?"

Or "did something happen to make you wonder about mom and dad?"

With kids, assume that they are feeling something and they simply want validation that those feelings are ok. Validation is so simple, it never requires details. It's about holding up a sign that says, "your feelings are ok. you are ok."

For example, say your ex doesn't pick S4 up. It's ok for him to feel sad if his dad is unreliable. It's a sad thing when someone doesn't do what he or she says she'll do.

If our kids are sad because they're hurt, and we try to comfort them by saying, "daddy loves you" we gloss over the truth. The truth is it's sad. The truth is that it's ok to be sad.

It's more important that our kids learn to feel validated, and to trust that they can soothe themselves, with us holding them and letting them feel the sadness.

There are trust issues here, too, that get 10 times more complex the older kids get. Ultimately, it's about empathy, which is way more trustworthy than even the best explanation we can think of on our feet.
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Turkish
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Posts: 12105


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 10:11:30 PM »

If our kids are sad because they're hurt, and we try to comfort them by saying, "daddy loves you" we gloss over the truth. The truth is it's sad. The truth is that it's ok to be sad.

Though things are better now, and even D3 seems more bonded with her mom, I used to tell the kids that their Mommy loved them. This was despite she not being around much, busy in her new r/s. I invalidated them (and kind of lied to them). They kept asking, "where's Mommy?" And one weekend she spent in the city (partying) where S then 3 kept asking on the phone, "Mommy, come home!" I said, "Mommy loves you." He didn't see that. She didn't demonstrate that (or she did in her limited way). Invalidation.

I remember a conversation with her one night a year or so ago, where she said she told the kids that I was a good Daddy and that I loved them (yes, I realize I have it better than most, and using the tools her helps not to trigger her... .that, and she's self aware enough to know that she needs me). I told her that she shouldn't say that. The kids needed to figure that out on their own. If they loved me, they were. Whatever they felt was ok. If they were mad at me, then they were. They needed to feel what they felt from their own POV. She didn't get it. I dropped that conversation when I heard that she wasn't getting it.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
razemarie
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Ended relationship 1 year ago. Practice limited contact (LC) due to son, together 8 years
Posts: 165


« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2015, 11:07:28 AM »

Thanks again for the advice.  I am working harder to validate my son and ask questions about his feelings in all of this.  My ex has continued to grill him on the phone when he calls so I have been limiting the amount of calls between them.  We did talk briefly when I picked my son up on Sunday and I laid out the boundaries that I want in place for future calls. I think that if this sort of thing continues as he gets older, we will seek help from a professional on how to best handle it.  As I have mentioned, I am not dating seriously at the moment and do not bring anyone around my son in that capacity.  That won't happen until I find someone I want to build a future with.  I have every other Friday and Saturday night (kid-free) to do that sort of thing if I choose.  Momtera, it's refreshing to find someone who is in a similar situation.  I have had a hard time finding people on this site who are in the same boat with an ex that refuses to let go.  It adds a different set of challenges and makes it very tough to move forward in the way that I would like.  I appreciate your support and am also here for you if you need to chat.
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