Using SET to find out where my daughter is?

[ambivalentmom]

Our court agreement has that we need to tell each other our permanent address and we each have the rights of my D12 medical records, daycare, summer camp, etc. 

My possible BPD ex has had her 4 weeks every summer for the last three years.

Two years ago - She was left alone all day with her stepsister and stepbrother, who were not old enough to be home alone.  He told me through email that I could only call her after 9pm.  Even then, I rarely got an answer and had a friend call because I was worried.  He answered her call immediately and acted like he didn't notice all of my missed calls and had my D12 call me at 9:40.  I have no other numbers and didn't know at the time they were all home alone until after the visit.

One year ago - ex says he's moving out-of-state and gives me his new address.  He's says it would be better to contact D after 8pm.  I find out a few weeks in that she is not at his new address.  I send an email wanting to know if they moved again without telling me.  He responds that where they are staying is not their "permanent address," then gives me the address where they are for the 4 weeks (was not the same address as his new or old address).

This year - didn't get the response from him, I picked a 4 week period similar to the last two years, a little bit of back and forth, but got four weeks figured out.  I sent an email at the end of April asking where D12 would be when she visits.  He responded with their home address.  I apologized and said I already had the home address, but just wanted to know if that's where she would be.

No responses, he picked her up this past Fri and I tried to call yesterday with no answer.  Trying to figure out how to use SET to write an email that appeals, so he will tell me where our daughter is.  I'm worried that if I try to guess why he is doing this, it will set me up to fail (if I say "It must be hard when you think I don't trust you" he will immediately think I don't trust him)  Thank you for your help with this.

[Skip]

This is a valid idea.  I think the more communication tools we use, the easier we make our life.

Question.  Why do you think he is doing this?  What would be his rationale (if you know)?  Did something happen.  Is this a retaliation.

All of this will help in crafting the letter.

[Thunderstruck]

"I hope you and D12 are having a nice time together. I'm glad that the two of you have this time to bond. I'm sure you don't want me bothering you or her during your time and I must sound like a broken record, but could you please confirm where D12 is staying? I have not heard from her and would just like to know that she's ok."

Something like that maybe?

Or you could say something about how plans might change and you wanted to confirm that they were still the same?

[Skip]

That is a very polite letter and that may do the job!

SET would get to the core of the feeling of the other party.  The "E" empathy is the most important part.

I don't know what is at the core, so this is just an example... .

You've help me come to understand that it is important that we both respect each other parenting time and privacy. I know I didn't do that when _________ and you have every right to be put off by that. I will respect your parenting time and privacy time this summer and I would appreciate the same - can you give me a specific schedule for when ____ and I may talk by phone? We both should have clear access when we don't have her with us.

This is about him and in it, he is portrayed as a reasonable person. The "you have every right to be put off by that" statement has to be picked carefully - you don't want to justify his bad behavior (validate the invalid) and you don't want to trivialize his position, either.

These are hard to write and hard to send - but they are effective.

[bravhart1]

Could you maybe ask for the address because you want to mail something D forgot? Or a letter that came for her?

Maybe just give a logical reason and he won't question it?

I agree that a SET letter would be great, but maybe a combination of both?

[ambivalentmom]

Those replies are unbelievably helpful.  I'm usually waiting to talk to my T about responding to emails and navigating the minefield.  I should be able to send this email pretty soon.  I combined the emails and altered to my situation.


Good Morning,

     I'm glad that you and D12 have this time to bond and I know you both are having a great time. I'm sure you don't want me bothering you or her during your time and I must sound like a broken record, but could you please tell me where D12 is staying right now and if she will be anywhere else during this visit? 

     You've help me come to understand that it is important that we both respect each other's parenting time and privacy.  Can you please let me know when I may talk by phone?  I have tried calling on Monday and yesterday with no answer/return call.  We both should have clear telephone access when we don't have her with us.  Thank you.


So you can see that I had to take out the "hope she's ok" because he gets aggressive with this.  I did put in when I called, only because I need to keep records that I told him (my D12 says she didn't know I called).

I also didn't mention the core of the feeling in the second part because I really don't know the core.  He punishes me for leaving and not wanting to be with him.  The timeline for this specific behavior matches when I went to CSE for child support, but it is also around the time he was seeing his now 2nd wife.  It is either a punishment (which I can handle) or because he is being abusive again (can't handle) and doesn't want anyone to find out.  If there are any additional thoughts on the email, I would love to hear them.  I will probaby send it this afternoon.

Probably implied, but the email I will be sending is a lie, and I just wanted to say that out loud.

[Skip]

Did you send or do you want comments?

[ambivalentmom]

I haven't sent it yet.  I used a lot from the responses, but I think I can use more help with the core and additional comments.  Thank you.

[ambivalentmom]

My previous email:

Good Afternoon,

                I am writing this because we have not heard back in almost two months about D's summer visit with her dad.  Please let us know if he will be spending time with her this summer and where she will be staying while she is visiting (any place that is more than a slumber party).

*There was a second paragraph about mailed items.


Their response:

Yes we will be there the 10th of July to pick her up. Our address is ~~~~~~~.

My second email:


Good Afternoon,



            Thank you for letting us know you will be picking up D.  We will let her know and plan around those four weeks.  I’m sorry to ask again, but we would still like to know where D will be when she is visiting.  We already have your address, but we just want to know if D will be at that address or if she will be somewhere else for a part/all of the visit.  We would also like to know if she will be going to day/week camp or staying at the house during the day.  Please let us know as soon as you can.

 

No email responding since I sent that on June 23rd

[Skip]

Good Morning,

    I'm glad that you and D12 have this time to bond and I know you both are having a great time. I'm sure you don't want me bothering you or her during your time and I must sound like a broken record, but could you please tell me where D12 is staying right now and if she will be anywhere else during this visit?  

    You've help me come to understand that it is important that we both respect each other's parenting time and privacy.  Can you please let me know when I may talk by phone?  I have tried calling on Monday and yesterday with no answer/return call.  We both should have clear telephone access when we don't have her with us.  Thank you.

This is largely about you and your need.  Its polite.  It may be enough.

These are hard to write.  To work, they have to be about him first - and them your need at the end. You probably don't love that - but its a means to an end.

They may not have responded to the letter as they feel you are over-reaching into their time.

SET is a bit more.  More like this... .

Good Morning,

        I hope you and D12 are having a nice time together. She's glad that the two of you have this time to share.

      You've helped me come to understand that it is important that we both respect each other's parenting time and privacy. I want to respect your time together this summer.

       Can you please let me know when is the best time to talk by phone so that I'm not calling randomly?

I left the "tell me where she is part out.  You can asked that when you call, right?

[livednlearned]

ambivalentmom,

I think your instincts about removing "hope she's ok" are good. From previous posts, it sounds like there have been CPS investigations involving his other kids. Your ex may be feeling very defensive about this, hence he is being cagey and concerned you are fishing for more than D's whereabouts.

[ambivalentmom]

Thank you.  I can definitely use SET for phone calls, but I only talk to D on the phone and I can't ask her where she is, too much pressure for her.  He has always pushed the idea that things need to "stay in the family" and coached D12 on this idea.  She's told me that she doesn't talk to me about what happens at ex's because I will probably punish her. 

It's just exhausting because he is trying to work around the court order and breaks it by not letting me speak to her, not telling me where she is, and not informing me about camp when I'm asking.

Thank you again, I'll send it without the "where is she part" because if I can talk to her on the phone, then he's not trying anything really bad.

[Skip]

The CSE battle has surely created wounds and it will take time to heal.  Remember, a pwBPD will take it all personally.  And he lost.

We usually recommend parallel parenting for the first year after divorce (or maybe in this case, post CSE) when the coordination itself becomes harmful to the kids - which it sounds like you are there.

Parallel parenting says you let him parent, his way, on his time - you don't try to control his side.  Sounds like he is very defensive - like you will monitor him - it might be time to give him space to cool off. Time can heal this - as long as stuff isn't happening that picks at the wound.

It shouldn't have to be this way - but it often is (the disorder).

It's hard.

[ambivalentmom]

*Update*     I sent the email on Wednesday.  On Thursday, I received a text from D12, called back with no answer, and then got a return call right after 10pm/9pm their time.  I only talked for a few minutes, but didn't tell her because it was late.  I also didn't mention trying to call before or ask where she was/didn't want to cause conflict for her.

I'm very glad I was able to talk to her and know that they got wherever okay.  I don't think there will be much change from the last couple of years.

I'll check with my lawyer, but this will probably be just another year of keeping records to show ex is not complying to court order/alienating D12/argument for staying at 4 weeks or less next year.        *Update*



I'll also ask the lawyer, but wanted to ask if anyone here knows who I can call just because I'm concerned based on past years/happening again.  I thought calling CPS would seem too much for D12 not having a phone during the day not sure where I can reach her.  Thank you.


P.S. I am so glad I found this site.  Everyone here is amazing.   

[Thunderstruck]

I'll also ask the lawyer, but wanted to ask if anyone here knows who I can call just because I'm concerned based on past years/happening again.  I thought calling CPS would seem too much for D12 not having a phone during the day not sure where I can reach her.  Thank you.


P.S. I am so glad I found this site.  Everyone here is amazing.   

You can call their local police/sheriff dispatch to do a child wellfare check. They'll send an officer out to the address to just check that everything is ok and report back. If they find evidence of abuse they are mandatory reporters to CPS.

Definitely check with the L before you do this though.

[Skip]

You can call their local police/sheriff dispatch to do a child wellfare check. They'll send an officer out to the address to just check that everything is ok and report back. If they find evidence of abuse they are mandatory reporters to CPS.

I think the one concern I would have is escalating this matter.  It already appears that he is sore about the child support (which was just action on your part).

You staked out "cooperation" in your letter.  Should you play it out over the next 3 1/2 weeks and see if it starts to lesson the tension?

Do you think you daughters welfare is in danger?