Getting past something heinous...

[Ceruleanblue]

How do you all get past something you consider cruel or personally heinous? Yesterday, BPDh knocked down a picture of my son, and he did it to be cruel and controlling. He lied and said we had an agreement that I could only have ONE picture of my son out. We never had that agreement, I just took down the second picture to shut him up. That was about four months ago, and he's obviously still actively hating my son. For no reason, I might add. It scares me the amount of hate BPDh has for my son. His daughters have said horrible lies about me, won't allow me around their kids, and treated BPDh horribly, yet I don't hate them to that extent. I dislike them and their actions/behaviors, but I actually feel sorry for them.

How do I get past feeling hurt and angry at BPDh for what I consider deliberate cruelty? He knows I'm hurting since he put me in the position to choose living with my son, or living with him. MY SON was the bigger, more loving person, and told me to move with my husband. BPDh has even twisted that, and says my son did it for self serving reasons. I'm sick of the amount of hatred BPDh seems capable of. It used to be aimed at his boss, and I always wondered what his boss could possibly have done to have earned that level of hatred. Now I know it was probably just a gross overreaction on BPDh's part. He's had issues with lots of past boss' apparently.

I want to get past this, but BPDh is stubborn, and he refuses to offer more than a simple "I'm sorry" that he clearly doesn't mean. He denies hating my son, but his actions and facial expressions show otherwise. He used to try to repair or make amends after his hateful acts, but lately he doesn't even try to do that. It's weird because his anger has lessened, and his DBT seems to be working, but in other areas, he's become more locked in.

I feel he used my son to hurt me, and I'm trying not to let this be a dealbreaker for me. It's bad enough that I'm now not living with my son, but to slam a picture down I'd put out?

How do I get past this? How do I look BPDh in the face, and not just want to punch him(which I'd never do, of course)... .

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[takingandsending]

C-blue,

I think that you have to have a boundary around this. "I will accept no unkind speech or action directed at my son, or directed at me for feelings that I have about my son." And be prepared to back up your boundary. Don't make this more complex than that. You love your son. You have a right to love him. Back off, husband. Make it direct, clear and concise. Be ready to leave when he tests it.

You have been twisting yourself in knots trying to rationalize and resolve something that is a boundary crying out to be heard. Trust yourself and believe that you deserve to have this boundary. Loving your son is sacred to you. Protect that. Honor that. It's not open for debate. 

[formflier]

  Loving your son is sacred to you. Protect that. Honor that. It's not open for debate. 

Put several pictures back up... .don't listen to him complain about it.

[formflier]

 

Didn't have much time before.

So... .my advice stands... .as long as you are not going to capitulate.

You are in charge of "training" him to understand that you value you son and will have pictures of him.  You son will be in your life.

So... .if you can put several pictures up and disengage the drama... .put them up... .keep a response simple... .and then don't discuss further.

If you think you will cave in... .then... .we need to do some work over here... .before hand... .to figure out priorities.

FF

[an0ught]

Looks to me like an extinction burst. Don't let him bully you here. This goes beyond your son. Your relationships with others are YOUR relationships with others and he has to respect them. You need these outside relationships to anchor and balance yourself.

[MaybeSo]

Agree to all of the above... .and... .

Be smart and Be safe.  If you think he might be violent in any manner when you set a boundary like this... .then you must have back up person (a way to easily signal help if needed) and a safety plan in place BEFORE you do this.

The bullying has got to stop.

[Ceruleanblue]

Well, I just did it. As of the last five days, I've been sleeping in the spare bedroom. You know, after he totally blindsided me in therapy while I was bragging on how much his anger has improved, how much our marriage has improved. I think the picture incident happened the day after that.

So tonight, after reading all your responses, I put up two more pictures of my son, and two more of my daughter, all in the spare bedroom, where I'm at(for now). Of course I was in there when BPDh put my son's picture face down that last time too! I'd love to have my daughters senior picture up too somewhere, and while BPDh gets along great with her, and actually loves her(in his weird, overattached way), I'm afraid right now even that would set him off. Last time I tried hanging it, he had a fit.

He says it's because I can't stand to have pictures of his kids around. Yeah, well my kids accepted our marriage, and never caused issues between us, my kids accepted BPDh, and his kids have hurt me, over and over. Just seeing pictures of his three girls makes me sweat. Pictures of his son would NOT bother me, but he doesn't want to put up any of his son's pictures. This is ALL about power and control. I explained to him a couple days ago that I wish I didn't feel so scared/panicked/angry just by seeing his daughter's faces, but I do, and it's not my fault, it's THEIRS. I actually feel I could have slight PTSD due to all they've put me through. I've been bullied, stuff was posted on the internet about me and my daughter(they said she'd been sexually molested which is a lie), and I've been excluded from participating or being around them. I get along with his son, so it's ironic he doesn't want to put pictures of him up, and in fact makes excuses why he hasn't.

The pictures of my kids are up, and I'm almost certain there will be an ugly scene tomorrow when he sees them. The last thing he said to me was that I was allowed to have ONE picture of each of my two kids up, and it could only be on my side of the bedroom. It had been in the living room, and he got super mad about that. I'd have thought our bedroom would have been worse? The whole thing is just odd.

I'll keep you all posted, and I'm hoping I am able to not cave. I do so a lot just to shut him up, and just because he likes to break out the threats, and I get scared. Not physically, but he threatens the marriage. I'm hoping he doesn't do that, and he just accepts that everything if life isn't equal, and everything isn't fair. I'd love if his kids hadn't acted this way, then we could have all the kids represented... .but I'm not going to sacrifice my mental health just to "be equal".

Finger crossed, and prayers sent up.

[Ceruleanblue]

I went ahead and put my daughter's 18x20 senior picture, also in the spare room. In for a penny, in for a pound, I guess. I guess I'm just going to stand my ground, if I can, and try to ignore his anger or complaining about it.

I'm pretty anxious about what his reaction might be though. I'm even having palpitations, which shows how nervous I am. All this recent stress has brought on my heart palpitations again, or it's due to the high blood pressure, which my doctor also said can be affected by my home life(which he knows has been a huge stressor for me). I wish life with BPDh wasn't so hard.

[formflier]

 


 




Remember... .hold your ground... .don't explain it... .don't defend it... .don't engage in debate.

I would also go ahead an "counterattack" with some kindness.  Make him a meal (something you enjoy as well)... .shouldn't be anything off the wall.

And here is the thing... .it's really more for you and your mindset... .than for him. 

Ceruleanblue,

I actually think that you guys are making strides towards a better place.  I'm impressed by some of YOUR decisions in the r/s...

It appears there are some subjects where both of you are still engaging in "trench warfare"... .and have stalemated.

When you decide to stop fighting "putting off an old... bad behavior"... .my hope is that you have a "new" behavior to "put on" that is a positive for the r/s.

You can do this!

   

FF

[takingandsending]

Cerulean,

I am proud of you for doing this for YOURSELF. And I really am concerned and hear you when you say you are having heart palpitations. Is there something that you can do, like taking a walk, or calling and speaking with friend/family member to ease your distress.

Lastly, if he does dysregulate, remember that that is not about you. He may threaten the marriage, but more often than not, with pwBPD, their crises are not. Express your love, understanding and hold firm that you are taking care of your own needs and will not accept debate on the topic.

Good luck. Let us know how you are doing.   

[Ceruleanblue]

He hasn't said a word about the pictures. I'm sure at some point he's likely to blow up about it. Likely in MC or when he gets mad. I'm just glad he didn't explode when he first saw them, like he did last time.

I've decided to do what you guys suggested and just not engage in an argument about it if/when he brings it up. If he was actually capable of a civil conversation about it, I'd be willing, but I think we've both make our views and feelings on this matter very clear, so why do it again? He must get something out of arguing, and I have to stop letting him put me on the defensive. In most cases, I'm getting better at that, but this issue with my son is the exception. He knows I'm hurting over it, and he likes to poke me where it hurts. I've always had such compassion about how rotten his kids treat him, but he certainly gets angry if I try to empathize or validate that situation. It's  like if I validate him about it, he has to admit they aren't acting nicely. He's enmeshed, they are almost certainly PD, and he's in major denial.

Had I known he had such anger issues, and a PD, before we married, I'd have moved on. I've made the choice to stay, and am glad I did, but it's sure hard. Just when you think things are going better, you get told or shown that it can instantly change. I especially wish I'd known just how much control his kids have over him, and just how enmeshed he was with them. It's like a hornets nest, and I was constantly being stung, until they got mad and took themselves out of my orbit. They think they are punishing me, but they've done me a favor.

I'm just thankful that my family is so supportive, and we don't have this sort of endless drama. Now I just have to figure out how to stop him from isolating me from them... .

[formflier]

Now I just have to figure out how to stop him from isolating me from them... .

When is their next visit scheduled?

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

My family lives about 40 minutes from me, but BPDh has been using my car a lot. He got the insurance payout on his car, but he hasn't replaced it. It's been about a month or more. For some reason, he doesn't want to, and I fear it is to have further control of me. This coming week, I'm done with his using my car. I hate being that way, but I think he'll get a car sooner, if I insist I don't like being stranded at home. Maybe.

I can go visit my family, but I've actually been letting my son have a cool off time. He's been pretty disrespectful towards me, and unlike BPDh, I won't chase a kid who's acting mean. I deserve respect, and to be treated nicely. No matter who it is.

[formflier]

 

Has anything been mentioned about the pictures?

Did you guys do something that each of you enjoyed last night... .I think that was in a different post... .but if I remember right... .you were wanting to do something that you enjoyed.

FF

[Ceruleanblue]

We ended up going to a place he wanted to eat, but I ended up liking it too. Then we went shopping, but he got tired of that, and got very moody. It just seems like when we do something that I enjoy, he gets fed up, or gets bored. I've done so many things for/with him that aren't really my thing, but I do it so we can enjoy it together. We ended the night with a move he and my daughter wanted to see. He'd gotten so grouchy though that even my 19 year old daughter asked me what was wrong with BPDh. I really think he got irritated doing "my" thing, even though "my" thing involved doing some shopping for his grandkids(you know, the ones I'm not allowed around... .so maybe he felt guilty, and took it out on me?).

I used to try to figure his moods out, but now I don't. I don't even thing HE knows why he has moods(dysregulates).

And so far, NOTHING about the pictures. I'm betting it gets mentioned in Monday's MC session.

[formflier]

 

OK... .so he is grouchy... .but... .did he say why?

The good thing is... .he did YOUR thing with you... .correct?

This is good...

FF

[takingandsending]

It's also good that he has dysregulated over the pictures of your family being up. That is daily connection to your own strength and self love. Keep thinking about how you can be there for yourself.

[Ceruleanblue]

Yes, it's good that he did my thing as well, but even nicer would be if he didn't complain or get grumpy while doing it.

Also, I agree that self care is huge when living with pwBPD. My pictures are up, and I actually spent the day with my kids, as he was with his(the one who refuses to be around me).

What's so funny is that I took my kids to eat, and BPDh got upset about that, I think. My 19 year old daughter told me that was why he was upset, and she's probably right. He walked to the local bar to eat, and he came home in a slightly better mood. That is until we talked about his discussion with his daughter. All bets were off then, and he got pretty crappy.

I'm no longer going to let him guilt me about my kids, or keep pictures hidden, and tomorrow we go to MC, and I'm going to address some things that I've not brought up in MC because I wanted to keep it light.

[letmeout]

Its hard to keep in mind, but you are dealing with a child in an adult body. They want their way and only their way. They sulk or throw a tantrum if they don't get their way.  I don't think its always personal, its just the way their immature brains think.

My ex did not like anyone ever telling him what to do. I always tried to make him think everything was his idea to to keep any semblance of peace.

[Ceruleanblue]

Boy, does that sound familiar. He does hate being told what to do. or offered advice, or even me telling him my needs. I seriously thing my needs in this marriage, make him feel controlled. I get most of my needs met by myself, family or friends, but some things only matter coming from the marital partner. These make him feel controlled, I think.

He's had issue with past bosses a lot in the past. So far, it's good with this new one, but he left his last job where he had 14 years in, just because he hated his boss. He even called his boss a foul name in front of other people. I think he knew his time was limited after that, and he started job scouting, just in case. He got demoted, passed over, and his new boss, actually recommended the place he's now working at. I don't think that was accidental, I think they wanted him gone. It's so sad how BPD touches so many aspects of their lives.