BPD and physical pain

[Depression = 72% of members]

I'm curious why so many pwBPD complain about physical ailments.

Back pain, headaches, stomach aches, sore feet, sore ankles, sore joints, nausea, acid reflux, etc, etc, etc.

Is this real or something they make up or just imagine?

Also, how come they can stand cutting themselves with razorblades but not a bit of back pain? Thoughts?

[LonelyChild]

I'm curious why so many pwBPD complain about physical ailments.

Back pain, headaches, stomach aches, sore feet, sore ankles, sore joints, nausea, acid reflux, etc, etc, etc.

Is this real or something they make up or just imagine?

Also, how come they can stand cutting themselves with razorblades but not a bit of back pain? Thoughts?

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[Meadowslark]

I often wondered about this! My sister would complain of many, many ailments frequently - restless legs, double vision, joint pain, headaches, tooth pain, her skin would hurt, etc. etc. But then she'd turn around and slice her arms and legs with razors and not say a word about it.

Whether or not it's real... .it probably is very real to them, at that moment. My sister was given medication for restless legs and then didn't take it, which led me to believe she was making it up the whole time. Why complain of an ailment, get the solution, and then not use the solution and turn around to complain more?

My best guess is that it's all psychosomatic - they have so much emotional and mental anguish that they're not dealing with, and it's manifesting as physical ailments. All that stress has to go somewhere, I imagine. I've read that they cut to release pain, to give themselves something else to focus on (the physical pain vs mental pain)... .but at the same time, if they complain of physical pain and then they inflict it on themselves... .

Yeah, it doesn't make a great deal of sense, but those are just my thoughts.

EDIT - One final thought: Things like back pain and headaches are much more common among the populous and many folks sympathize with sufferers. Slicing yourself up with a razor isn't, and is usually met with fear, anguish, police/ambulances/hospitals... .Another guess is that they complain of these imagined physical pains (like the back pain/headaches) for attention.

[SummerStorm]

My former friend BPD told me she had all kinds of things wrong with her, including lupus.  From the beginning, even before I met her, she canceled a meeting she was supposed to have with her student teaching mentor because she was "sick."  A few weeks after the school year began, she called off because she had sprained her wrist the night before.  She did wear a brace for a few days, but it just seemed too suspicious.  Plus, why would she wait until the next morning, at the last second, to call off work? 

She canceled plans with me more than once because she was "sick." Once, she texted me early in the morning and changed plans that we had for me spending the night at her apartment because she was still feeling "sick."  Now, I had a terrible cold at the time (blowing my nose every couple of minutes, going through bags of cough drops) and would have had no problem keeping the original plans.  We ended up hanging out for a few hours that night, and to this day, I can't begin to tell you what she was "sick" with.  She ate dinner, had no visible problems, and then went home and texted me for several hours.  Once, she canceled weekend plans with me at the very last second because she was "sick."  When I texted her over the weekend and asked how she was feeling, she ignored me.  I don't doubt that there were times when she was actually throwing up, but I do think it was all caused by mental and emotional stress. 

Two of the primary issues with BPD are fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment, and my former friend's way of trying to eliminate these fears was to say she was sick.  It's very difficult to argue with someone who says they're sick.  In general, I would say it's one of the most used excuses out there, even for people who do not have a PD.  I know plenty of people, myself included, who have used a sick day to get caught up on grading papers, to clean the house/do laundry, or to just get away from the frustration of teaching teenagers.  And what did we all enter into the absence website?  "Teacher Sick Leave - Fever, Nausea, Flu-like symptoms, etc." 

My former friend's boyfriend wanted to go out with friends or wanted to take her out and spend time with his friends = My friend feared abandonment, said she was sick, and convinced him to stay home and take care of her

My former friend thought her friendship with me was too intense, was overwhelmed by moving in with her boyfriend, was asked to do something/go somewhere that was an interest she only mirrored and felt like her "true self" was being taken away = My friend feared engulfment, said she was sick, and stayed at home and played video games instead. 

I think some of it is for attention, but again, that relates to fear of abandonment.  My former friend slept over at my house (we also had a sexual relationship, but that's irrelevant to this post) one night, and that afternoon, she texted me and asked, "My neck hurts really bad.  Do I get a massage tonight?"  I said yes and gave her one later that night.  I asked her why her neck hurt, and she couldn't give me a legitimate answer.  And who wouldn't feel bad for a 22 year old woman who supposedly has lupus and arthritis? 

She does have awful tooth problems, but that's mostly related to the bulimia she struggled with in high school, smoking, drug use, and bad genetics.  She's been to the dentist more times in the past few months than I have been in the past few years. 

In terms of cutting, my former friend once said to me, "I can't help it.  I like it.  It feels good."  She told me so many times that she feels empty inside, and cutting makes her feel something.  When things got really bad, she also started smoking pot to take away the pain.  When none of that worked and she actually felt worse instead, she tried swallowing fifty pills to take away the pain.

When my former friend goes through these cycles, it's like a car that starts off parked and then quickly speeds up to 100 mph.  She becomes frantic, searching for something that will ease the pain.  After being hospitalized and seeing how upset people are and knowing that she disappointed people, she will calm down and go back to "park," until something happens that causes her to feel depressed again. 

[thisagain]

I'd be interested to hear more thoughts about this. And maybe not just pain, but any sort of physical ailment.

My partner has some verifiable health problems, but also several times a day will have something that itches, hurts, has a rash, etc. Anything slightly out of place is the end of the world to her. She'll spend hours rubbing at her eyes to try to get rid of "goo," and sometimes she'll tell me "there's goo in your eye, doesn't it hurt?"... .when I didn't even notice. Same thing with a patch of dry skin, pimples, all sorts of benign little things like that.

Sometimes I wonder if it's looking for blame--like they feel bad, they don't know why, they see a weird patch of skin on their arm, and so they fixate on that as the cause of their distress. Or it definitely happens sometimes that she can't handle our conversation emotionally so she fixates on her itchy arm instead.

I also really struggle to deal with her inability to soothe herself when her stomach hurts or something. I'd expect her to be able to put on a funny movie to distract herself or something, but instead she always seems to be looking to me to make her feel better, but won't accept any of the actual help that I offer.

Meadowslark, the thing about complaining of a problem and then not following through with the treatment/medication sounds so familiar. My partner would rage at doctors for not agreeing with her about the diagnosis or medication, and generally had a very high level of drama surrounding how she KNEW she had this problem and she NEEDED this treatment... .but stopped most of them for no particular reason after maybe one treatment or dose.

[Meadowslark]

Meadowslark, the thing about complaining of a problem and then not following through with the treatment/medication sounds so familiar. My partner would rage at doctors for not agreeing with her about the diagnosis or medication, and generally had a very high level of drama surrounding how she KNEW she had this problem and she NEEDED this treatment... .but stopped most of them for no particular reason after maybe one treatment or dose.

Yes! It's so bizarre, isn't it?

Complains of problem X, receives solution Y, refuses to use solution Y, or discontinues use of Y. Follows up with complaint of problem Z.

Rinse, repeat ad nauseum.

Come to think of it, BPDsis stopped or refused treatment for a number of things. Once, she had a UTI but refused to go to the doctor or take any medication. Eventually it became so bad that she collapsed and went to the hospital. When I asked, "Why did you not take medication for this? It would have cleared up very quickly.", she refused to answer me.  I have theories as to 1) why she refused treatment and 2) why she didn't answer me.

1) She refused treatment because she was getting attention. Mom was caring for her and insisting she go to the doctor. BPDsis would get enraged at Mom and fight back, which caused Mom to be very distressed. This cycle would continue and the whole time, my sister received a great amount of attention (both positive and negative).

2) Ending up in the hospital attached to an IV for something that was so ridiculously easy to prevent is shameful. BPD folks have a serious problem coping with emotions in general, and  shame is an incredibly powerful emotion.

With regards to your partner, I wonder if, deep down, she knows these ailments are bogus, but she loves the drama? All that attention, medical professionals expressing concern for her (supposed) illnesses... .Maybe it fills a void in them, albeit temporarily. Once the attention is gone and the solution presented, they discard the solution in favor of amping up the next problem.

I dunno, just rambling thoughts! This may not even apply to your situation, thisagain. I'd like to hear more thoughts about your partner and how she deals (or doesn't deal) with real or imagined illnesses.

[thisagain]

Your theories about the attention sound right. I'd also guess that the more your mom tried to get her to go to the doctor, that only reinforced your sister not wanting to go. Sometimes I think the stunted emotional development of a pwBPD makes them act like a defiant toddler, so when mom says to go to the doctor, pwBPD says "na na na you can't make me!"

In my partner's situation I think the BPD symptoms are substantially about acting out patterns of abuse from her childhood because that's her "comfort zone." I can't be sure what exactly happened because I see with our relationship that she tends toward rewriting history when she's painted someone black, but I do know that her "comfort zone" is seeing herself as having a need that the Perpetrator refuses to meet. So she's kind of addicted to the drama of thinking she needs something and doctors NOT giving to her. And any time there's an inkling of her not getting exactly what she wants right away, she gets very entrenched in dramatically insisting that she NEEDS this and not giving it to her is EVIL and CRUEL.

Once she gets a doctor to agree with her and prescribe what she wants, there's none of that drama anymore. The treatments are often pretty burdensome, which means she gets to stay in the victim comfort zone for a while longer ("I need to get HOURS of IV treatment EVERY MONTH!" or "I need to drink this stuff from a vial four times a day!". But once the rush of that wears off, she'll stop the treatment. Or if it is a real problem that she really needs the meds for, she'll take the meds but keep raging about all the other doctors who didn't see the problem and didn't help.

I have a rare, hard-to-diagnose genetic disorder, so I sympathize with having a problem that doctors are unwilling or unable to recognize and treat. I had to get very assertive and travel to specialists out of state for a diagnosis. But the level of drama that my partner brings into it is something else.

[Meadowslark]

I think you're spot-on about stunted emotional development and acting out patterns of abuse because it's a "comfort zone". What you had said about your partner being addicted to the drama and chaos and choosing to focus on that. Since they don't have a concrete sense of self, I can imagine they have a hard time telling where a particular feeling is stemming from. Since they can't identify it in themselves, you saying they focus on a physical ailment makes perfect sense.

Logically, the feeling had to have come from somewhere, I assume. I think this is also where some projection stems from. They have a feeling, they cannot identify where it came from, so X must have caused it! (X = physical real or imagined illness/ailment/issue or the closest person to them must've set it off).

The rush of drama and emotion and energy must be intense for her, thisagain. Does she become worn out after the "high" has dissipated? Does she seem calmer after she's discarded the solution, or is it a constant, break-neck pace of rage/indignation from one thing to the next?

[thisagain]

Logically, the feeling had to have come from somewhere, I assume. I think this is also where some projection stems from. They have a feeling, they cannot identify where it came from, so X must have caused it! (X = physical real or imagined illness/ailment/issue or the closest person to them must've set it off).

The rush of drama and emotion and energy must be intense for her, thisagain. Does she become worn out after the "high" has dissipated? Does she seem calmer after she's discarded the solution, or is it a constant, break-neck pace of rage/indignation from one thing to the next?

Yup. I guess I should be happy that X is the ailment instead of me. Although she can very easily turn it on me if I'm not super careful about validating in a very non-judgmental way. A few times I've made the mistake of trying to talk her out of thinking she had a problem (when she very obviously didn't), hoping to head off the dysregulation that happens when the doctor doesn't give her what she wants. But then she just rages at me instead.

It's usually a breakneck pace of one thing to another, though it's not always medical stuff. Sometimes it's crises with work, family, or me. Like with the health, sometimes there is a more apparent basis in reality and sometimes it's more manufactured.

I really don't understand how she can spend weeks with single-minded focus on having a particular problem and needing a particular treatment, and then forget about it after the first dose. And then she's on to the next thing with just as much single-minded conviction. Sometimes when she's raging about evil doctor so-and-so who won't give her this treatment, I'm tempted to say "that's what you said about the IV that you only did once, and the full box of vials in the closet you stopped taking after two days"... .but obviously that wouldn't end well for me.

[Meadowslark]

Yup. I guess I should be happy that X is the ailment instead of me. Although she can very easily turn it on me if I'm not super careful about validating in a very non-judgmental way. A few times I've made the mistake of trying to talk her out of thinking she had a problem (when she very obviously didn't), hoping to head off the dysregulation that happens when the doctor doesn't give her what she wants. But then she just rages at me instead.

Your wife is very lucky to have you! Not everyone can validate like that, especially when you could easily become a target of hostility, and furthermore when the complaints are completely fabricated! I'm being serious - pat yourself on the back.

It's usually a breakneck pace of one thing to another, though it's not always medical stuff. Sometimes it's crises with work, family, or me. Like with the health, sometimes there is a more apparent basis in reality and sometimes it's more manufactured.

That sounds utterly exhausting, both for you and for her. I can't imagine going 900 miles an hour from one thing to the next, all with the high amount of energy required to maintain that kind of speed.

I really don't understand how she can spend weeks with single-minded focus on having a particular problem and needing a particular treatment, and then forget about it after the first dose. And then she's on to the next thing with just as much single-minded conviction. Sometimes when she's raging about evil doctor so-and-so who won't give her this treatment, I'm tempted to say "that's what you said about the IV that you only did once, and the full box of vials in the closet you stopped taking after two days"... .but obviously that wouldn't end well for me.

I wonder if this also has to do with object consistency? If they don't think about the pain or the ailment, does it cease to be? Once the high of the drama surrounding the pain/ailment goes away, what's left to fixate on? The solution is so absolute - Do X and Y outcome will happen. Obviously it's not usually that simple but there's not as much drama around the solution. There's no, "wow will everything be okay?". You've got your solution. People aren't wondering what will come next. There's not as much anxiety, if any at all. Bam, done.

And with regards to the temptation to say, "Uh you've done this 4839 times." and point to the pile of discarded solutions, I have so been there and made that mistake a couple times.

Have you had the temptation to ask about an incredibly obvious solution or prevention method?

For example, my sister came home from work and her fingers were raw and bloody and bright red. She of course made a show of displaying them to me. I was stupid and asked what happened. She said she got bleach (or some kind of industrial cleaner) on them and look at how awful they are! They hurt so much! Very big to-do, much drama, etc etc. She worked in shipping at a big Wal-Mart-esque sort of place. The kind of place that has a little bit of everything. She said she was cleaning the floor with some of the other workers and got this cleaner all over her hands (which she chews incessantly, and they were usually bloody and raw anyway).

Since this Wal-esque store carried everything, they carried gloves. I asked why she did not use gloves. She said, "They didn't have any." I said there's no way that's true. She could have walked over two aisles and grabbed a pair to be safe while cleaning the floor. Instead, she actively chose not to protect her already raw and painful fingers and made them worse, then cried about it. 

[thisagain]

Thanks for your kind words   The thing with the cleaner is really mind-boggling. I'm guessing the employer would have provided gloves if the cleaner was dangerous to normal people's hands?

It is exhausting. I don't usually suggest solutions beyond "let me know if you want me to get you anything." Sometimes she asks for tea when her stomach hurts, so if she says her stomach hurts and is seeming semi-balanced emotionally I'll offer her tea. I think once they get all settled into drama-land, the black-and-white all-or-nothing type thinking kicks in. So they think this is just the worst and there's nothing that could possibly make it better.

The flavor of the month is that her therapist had her convinced she had some kind of learning disability. Last week the therapist asked me to go to a session to share my observations on her learning and attention. Since they asked, I tried to explain that she is always so overwhelmed by the latest perceived crisis that she just doesn't have the emotional space to focus on doing the laundry, let alone college-level academics or a non-menial job. Then my partner almost broke up with me for being so "dismissive" because she KNEW she had this learning problem.

Today she goes to an actual expert in learning disabilities, as opposed to this random therapist (who has some weird misconceptions about BPD and seems to be grasping at straws to explain her dysfunction as anything other than BPD). And the expert says there's no way she has a learning disability, just anxiety. I'm just like... .  "well what do you think about that honey?"

[mimi99]

This is a great thread! My BPDd24 has had a million ailments throughout her life, some real and most imagined. Over 20 different medications in the last year alone. Fibromyalgia, torn rotator cuff, kidney stones, some kind of stomach problems, constipation, ear eczema, on and on. None backed up by diagnostic tests, all medicated by doctors listening to her very realistic descriptions of symptoms. The most recent ER visit was witnessed by her father and sister. The doctor told her she did not have a urinary tract infection, she came away telling everyone her kidneys were failing! The last straw was when she started transferring those ailments onto my gd who was 4 at the time. She became convinced the child was autistic, and gave the doctor a long description of autism behaviors that she claimed she had observed. She was referred to a specialist from Childrens Hospital. Her take from the doctor "He recommends behavioral therapy for her" when the actual report stated that there was no autism. Her preschool teachers, speech therapist, and my aunt (a MSW specializing in children) all agree that she is a normal, healthy child. I think part of it is the attention that unsuspecting friends or romantic partners will give her "Oh whats wrong, poor thing, let me take care of you" and part is that her anxiety is so high all the time that she immediately jumps to the worst possible outcome. It is so helpful to read that other peoples loved ones do the same thing! It seems to go hand in hand with BPD, instead of just that my daughter is nuts!

[GreenGrover]

This has always been something that boggled my mind.  My exbffBPD always seemed to have something wrong with her.  I have a couple of theories, but I can't begin to tell you which one is correct.  Heck, maybe all of them are!

Theory 1 - Anxiety manifesting itself as physical ailments.  I do think there is some legitimacy with this one.  She is diagnosed BPD, with several co-morbid ailments, including anxiety.  I was talking to a co-worker about this.  This co-worker also suffers from anxiety and said that it can get so bad that she feels sick. 

Theory 2 - It gets her sympathy.  I'll be honest.  When I'm sick, I tend to be a bit "dramatic" because I know people will feel bad and cut me some slack.  If I'm mentally stable and do that, it's likely that a pwBPD would also do it. 

Theory 3 - It's a way to get out of keeping plans with people, for whatever reason the pwBPD comes up with.

[dacoming]

I deal with this every day with my wife.  She has a bad back, stomach problems, migraines, nerve pain in legs, feet etc.  She has so much pain that she can't do anything around the house anymore.  We have two grown daughters (technically my stepdaughters) staying with us (one recently moved out) that constantly have to be told to clean up and argue with each other like grade schoolers.  I used to get on them when they were younger and there was always resistance from the wife, even telling me that I like to punish and disappoint them.  She once told me the only reason I hound them about school is because it's another way to chastise them.  Long story short, I backed away from getting on them and went the nice route.  Now, she is frustrated from having to get on them all the time and blames me for not helping her with them through the years.  Every time they do something wrong, she comes after me too.  I figure she's not working, doesn't cook or clean or nothing else, why can't you deal with that?  You created the monster!  I rub her back constantly late at night, in the middle of the night, whenever she decides.  Sometimes she wakes me up multiple times even though I have to work.  Yet she still complains I don't do it right and have no sympathy for her illness because it's been years and I can't do it right still.  And she criticizes everything I do following that up with how she is Superwoman because she handled everything before she got injured and we can't handle it with 3 people.  However, nobody remembers her doing most of the stuff she claims on a consistent basis even before the injury.

[maxsterling]

My wife's life is full of contradictions like this.  Afraid of death, but talks about killing herself.  Rant about preservatives and processed food, but when emotional only wants junk.  Can't stand the slightest bump or pain, but was once a cutter and still hits herself.  Has been very promiscuous in her past, but feels uncomfortable showing her body at all and can't watch movies with sex scenes.  My feeling about this is that it is wrapped up in the whole self-harm/punishing oneself/shame mechanism.

One thing I have learned about my wife's pains (whatever they may be) - all seem to go away when she takes Xanax.  Muscle pain goes away, cramps, headaches, fibromyalgia... .  It makes me think that her "pain" is closely related to anxiety.  She complains of pain the most when she is most anxious.  I'm sure the anxiety causes her muscles to constrict and tense, but it also means that the source of her pain is her brain, and not in the limb/organ she is sensing the pain in.

[Cat Familiar]

I've seen similar threads about BPD and pain on numerous occasions. I think just like everyone else, they have physical problems, but with BPD, they have a laser like focus on whatever ails them and it becomes all consuming.

I see my husband go nuts over a crack in his foot--as if it's a life threatening emergency. It's that black and white thinking.

Lots of times he'll complain about some horrible pain and then a few hours later when I ask him how he's feeling, he will have completely forgotten about it.

He's recently started to chart his blood pressure and pulse and has observed a pattern where both are elevated when he is upset. (His doctor started him on this and I think she's catching on to the PD.)

When they gripe about random pains so frequently, it's hard to know what complaints to take seriously.