scared I did the wrong thing

[whitebackatcha]

Long-distance uBPDgf has ended our relationship countless times over the past year plus. Her pattern is to end it, then slowly initiate online public interactions, which I have always responded to. Eventually, she contacts me directly. This time, when she left, she left all our mutual social groups, but her behaviors were very much staying somewhat engaged (not actually blocking me, telling me she would "let me have my feelings out" right after telling me not to contact her, calling in the middle of the argument, etc.). One group leader asked her why she left, and I was kicked out and it was announced I had been removed due to drama (gf told her I hadn't let her have even one group, and couldn't be in groups with me anymore). I also let myself get sucked into a post about "a friend," where I let myself get upset, but BPDgf agreed to smooth it over when it escalated, and did attempt that.

At this point, 2/3 of my social groups think there is something wrong with me, and that I was at fault. It caused me extreme anxiety, and I deactivated my profile and started a new one with only a few friends, no groups that she may be in. I told her I deactivated, and that she could reach me via text, phone, or email. My last comment to her was to point out that I hadn't ended our relationship when she had told me almost the same thing a week before. She didn't respond. That was four days ago, the longest we've gone with no contact, I believe.

Backstory, I have been having better boundaries. I haven't been responding to things I normally responded to, including blocking, and had seen an extinction burst already. She ended it this time because she showed me an article on narcissism, I remained neutral, and her comments and the content led me to believe she was admitting this about herself, which I responded to by pointing out how it was wrong. She said I was calling her a narcissist. You know the rest.

Any thoughts? Did I seal my own fate in deactivating? She ended it six days ago, but had a long argument/discussion four days ago, which went okayish, but she never said she wanted to keep talking. That was also the night I deactivated (honestly for my mental health, not attention). Now, nothing.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[takingandsending]

Hi, whitebackatcha,

Having a long distance relationship is difficult under normal circumstances and is only more so when a partner has BPD. How hard for you to be painted black in this situation and to wonder if protecting yourself is the right thing weighed against the possibility of your relationship ending. 

Remember that, in high conflict relationships, you need to put your own oxygen mask on first before trying to help your partner. So, I would like to reassure you that deactivating your accounts, if that was necessary to reduce your anxiety and mental anguish, was absolutely the right thing to do. It was taking care of your own emotional needs first, which you are going to have to be adept at doing if you are going to remain in this RS.

My suggestion is to ride the no contact out for a little bit. If she has had an extinction burst already, odds are that she will be returning to a more level state soon. Try to take this time to sort out your feelings, your boundaries and do some good things for yourself. That way, when your partner contact you, you will be in a better, more balanced place to meet her many needs. As you reflect, you may find a better way than deactivating your profile that does not trigger her abandonment fears, or you may not. There is no wrong or right, here. You did what you did with good intent to protect yourself. That is a boundary, and it is healthy.

Hang in there. Let us know how you are doing. 

[formflier]

 

In the future... .and I think there will be a future... .remember... there is an order to the disorder... .think long and hard about discussions to avoid.

If they have been triggering for either of you in the past... .leave them alone. 

So... "oh... here is an article on narcissism... "... .can be met with a thanks for the thought... and let it drop.

Try to relax and take care of yourself.

I think you did a great job to deactivate the profiles... .and end the drama!   

It was the right move for you... .!  Don't worry about the rest of the people...

FF

[whitebackatcha]

Remember that, in high conflict relationships, you need to put your own oxygen mask on first before trying to help your partner. So, I would like to reassure you that deactivating your accounts, if that was necessary to reduce your anxiety and mental anguish, was absolutely the right thing to do. It was taking care of your own emotional needs first, which you are going to have to be adept at doing if you are going to remain in this RS.

I'm trying so hard to be better about this. Part of that had been not putting up with poor treatment. It is so hard when I'm still learning how to have boundaries and sometimes do it poorly, and it causes more conflict. I think having a pwBPD forces you to learn boundaries if you don't want to break, in a way you wouldn't need to with someone else... .but it sure would be easier to stick with them with an easier partner.

[whitebackatcha]

In the future... .and I think there will be a future... .remember... there is an order to the disorder... .think long and hard about discussions to avoid.

If they have been triggering for either of you in the past... .leave them alone. 

So... "oh... here is an article on narcissism... "... .can be met with a thanks for the thought... and let it drop.

Try to relax and take care of yourself.

I think you did a great job to deactivate the profiles... .and end the drama!   

It was the right move for you... .!  Don't worry about the rest of the people...

FF

I knew better than to have that conversation, too! My first comment was very neutral. But then it seemed almost like an apology, and I got excited. Ugh. Labels are a HUGE trigger for her. On a side note, it's making it difficult to start saying how I feel about things when she takes everything so personally (as they do). I've read about SET and all of those techniques, and truly, validation beyond just saying "okay" sounds fake to her and sets her off. I'm almost having better luck sometimes just saying "that's not okay!"

I'm honestly wondering if it is better not to be on Facebook together. The friending and unfriending is an enormous power play for her, and I'm completely exhausted with it. I'm still scared this will be too much of a cutting off and will make her give up... .but I also don't want to reinforce the silent treatment.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[formflier]

 

At this point... .probably good to hold off on making any more "moves" like cutting off FB... or other things.

Anything that can be done over the longer term to take away "go to" tools... is a good thing.

Any chance you can leave FB alone... .and just not pay attention to the friending and unfriending?

FF

[whitebackatcha]

At this point... .probably good to hold off on making any more "moves" like cutting off FB... or other things.

Anything that can be done over the longer term to take away "go to" tools... is a good thing.

Any chance you can leave FB alone... .and just not pay attention to the friending and unfriending?

FF

I would hate for a relationship to be over just because I didn't reactivate an account. That seems silly to me. I told her she could contact me via text and phone, both of which she has used before. Do you think that is what it will come down to though?

The Facebook thing clearly seems silly. It's just that it's always preceeded by saying she is ending the relationship, and it is a way to cut off a primary form of contact and communication about our daily lives. We actually don't talk on the phone that much, just because we prefer many casual contacts throughout the day. Unfriending is a part of the silent treatment. Honestly, no, I don't know how to not feel anxious and rejected by this. I'm not really sure how you all manage that. I'm not sure how to make those techniques for letting it go actually WORK. I just know I intend to let it not bother me, and then spend days crying every single time anyway. 

[formflier]

 

OH. ... .hey... to be clear... .if accounts are off... .I would leave them off for few days.

Accounts that are on... .leave them.

Basically... .stop making moves that the other person has to "interpret".

At some point... .hopefully you can talk face to face... .validate... .and calm things.

Hopefully...

FF

[MaroonLiquid]

OH. ... .hey... to be clear... .if accounts are off... .I would leave them off for few days.

Accounts that are on... .leave them.

Basically... .stop making moves that the other person has to "interpret".

At some point... .hopefully you can talk face to face... .validate... .and calm things.

Hopefully...

FF

FF is right here.  I understand what you are feeling and going through. I cut off mine when my wife went through her major dysregulation about a year ago and it was BAD.  Interpreting wasn't even the word.  She went NUTS.  It made things worse.  She will go through an extinction burst and threaten you.  You have to fight through it.  I know, it's easier said than done.  It gets easier.  Hang in there.

[whitebackatcha]

FF is right here.  I understand what you are feeling and going through. I cut off mine when my wife went through her major dysregulation about a year ago and it was BAD.  Interpreting wasn't even the word.  She went NUTS.  It made things worse.  She will go through an extinction burst and threaten you.  You have to fight through it.  I know, it's easier said than done.  It gets easier.  Hang in there.

There has been zero contact since Monday. She "ended it" last Saturday, and never said she changed her mind. So, ignore the silent treatment and let her come to me?

No kidding, this stuff is easier said than done. I'm so depressed. I feel like I'm learning better self care, but still... .depressed. I'm sick of this crap. But you know what? I kissed her butt for most of our relationship. Of course there would be an adjustment period when I stop being her doormat. Nobody understands why I'm still with her. It's just that she is as good at being incredible as she is at being difficult. 

[formflier]

  I kissed her butt for most of our relationship. Of course there would be an adjustment period when I stop being her doormat.

Very true... .

The key is to use this time apart to find the real you... .and figure out what that person wants out of the r/s... and wants to "put into" the r/s.

Then... .once you have that figured out... .do it... and be consistent... don't let her rages... .nice times... .and other issues get yo too far off that decision.

pwBPD really crave structure and consistency (even though they will complain about it many times...

FF

[whitebackatcha]

The key is to use this time apart to find the real you... .and figure out what that person wants out of the r/s... and wants to "put into" the r/s.

Then... .once you have that figured out... .do it... and be consistent... don't let her rages... .nice times... .and other issues get yo too far off that decision.

pwBPD really crave structure and consistency (even though they will complain about it many times...

FF

I've definitely been noticing that last part since joining here and learning more about BPD.

I think you're right. The first question that pops into my head then is, if I can't consistently get love, companionship, and acceptance from a partner, is that even a relationship? I'm going to go find that thread on why people stay. If she comes back, I can guarantee I will take her back, I know that about myself. But I at least want to be honest with myself about things... .and I need to think hard about whether or not it is possible to get what makes it worth staying when it's long distance in the first place. When she cuts things off, there are literally no positives coming from the relationship in spite of it. I think? Or am I not thinking bigger picture enough... .

[vortex of confusion]

I think you're right. The first question that pops into my head then is, if I can't consistently get love, companionship, and acceptance from a partner, is that even a relationship? I'm going to go find that thread on why people stay. If she comes back, I can guarantee I will take her back, I know that about myself. But I at least want to be honest with myself about things... .and I need to think hard about whether or not it is possible to get what makes it worth staying when it's long distance in the first place. When she cuts things off, there are literally no positives coming from the relationship in spite of it. I think? Or am I not thinking bigger picture enough... .

I think it really helps to think about what you want out of this relationship long term. If it is long distance, is there some hope that the two of you will be close enough to meet up on a semi-regular basis? Are you wanting to marry this person at some point? Are you content with being in a long distance relationship over the long term? If you are content with it being a long term, long distance relationship, then what is it that you want out of it?

Is this relationship an exclusive one where the two of you are not allowed to see other people? Have you met her in person?

You don't have to answer any of these questions. I am throwing them out there for you to think about. It can be rather easy to get caught up in the short term stuff especially when in so much pain and confusion. It really helps me to try to take a step back and look at the bigger picture and what I want moving forward.

[whitebackatcha]

I think it really helps to think about what you want out of this relationship long term. If it is long distance, is there some hope that the two of you will be close enough to meet up on a semi-regular basis? Are you wanting to marry this person at some point? Are you content with being in a long distance relationship over the long term? If you are content with it being a long term, long distance relationship, then what is it that you want out of it?

Is this relationship an exclusive one where the two of you are not allowed to see other people? Have you met her in person?

You don't have to answer any of these questions. I am throwing them out there for you to think about. It can be rather easy to get caught up in the short term stuff especially when in so much pain and confusion. It really helps me to try to take a step back and look at the bigger picture and what I want moving forward.

Good questions. Yes, we have met. Everything else is incredibly complicated. Good things to think about.

[whitebackatcha]

She told me she wanted to be done last Saturday. BPD doesn't make her incapable of ever being able to decide a relationship isn't good for her. She said once, several months ago, that she hated herself for going back to me every time (her perspective is that she ends it because I have hurt her, the issue in the OP being an example). I don't want to influence her to be with me if that's not what she really wants. Our relationship has always been a rollercoaster of emotion for BOTH of us. The best I can figure, I should let her initiate contact, and if she doesn't, just let it go. I don't want her to resent me.

The scary part is that she might be telling herself the same thing about waiting on me to contact her. I wish I hadn't let myself get sucked into having contact when she posted about her "friend." Things were calmer on Monday, then I deactivated, and it all feels so messy. It would have been easier to have a clear cut break, so it would be obviously on her if things were going to change.

Thoughts? I don't want it to end because of miscommunication, but if she can't even send me a text... .right?  

[formflier]

Thoughts? I don't want it to end because of miscommunication, but if she can't even send me a text... .right?  

There can be tons of reasons for lack of communication. 

Until you guys begin to communicate again... .no way to tell why... .or if you believe the reasons given.

My hope for you is that you can try to relax and focus on other things in your life... while waiting on her to reach out... .

What kind of things can you do to take the focus off the ST?

FF

[whitebackatcha]

There can be tons of reasons for lack of communication. 

Until you guys begin to communicate again... .no way to tell why... .or if you believe the reasons given.

My hope for you is that you can try to relax and focus on other things in your life... while waiting on her to reach out... .

What kind of things can you do to take the focus off the ST?

FF

I guess I just want a plan. She had a history of pulling away to get a reaction, and that had been one of my new boundaries, that I won't chase her if she does. I just need to know how that fits into this. It's not that I mind waiting, so much as I worry this will be one of those times I try to have a boundary, and then realize I was being dogmatic. I know a week is nothing, but we have never gone that long without at least public, casual interactions. I just don't want it to end up being my fault.

I've been trying to stay busy and focus on other things. I had the realization that I can be depressed, and also have it not completely take over my life. I've started two new hobbies, actually, that I hope will stick. So all very positive, actually.

[formflier]

She had a history of pulling away to get a reaction, and that had been one of my new boundaries, that I won't chase her if she does. I just need to know how that fits into this.

If fits wonderfully... .

Pulling away... .you reacting... .her coming back... .expressing shock at your reaction... .making up... .being happy... pulling away... .you reacting... .continue on... .

The above cycle has drama written all over it.  You are wise to step out of that cycle... .

While we can't guarantee exactly what she will do... .you can guarantee what you will do... .and be happy with that.

Think about that for a while... .if you are worrying about what the other person will do... .especially a person that displays traits of a serious mental disorder... .that puts a lot of power over your happiness in a bad place... .a place that can cause you a lot of pain.

Much better to focus on yourself... .making healthy decisions... and leaving the pathway open for your partner to come along.  Sure... they will say they aren't coming... .will act out... .will try to get you to go back to the "old comfortable thing" they are used to... .your big reactions... .

Don't buy into it... .stay on a healthy path.

 

FF

[whitebackatcha]

If fits wonderfully... .

Pulling away... .you reacting... .her coming back... .expressing shock at your reaction... .making up... .being happy... pulling away... .you reacting... .continue on... .

The above cycle has drama written all over it.  You are wise to step out of that cycle... .

While we can't guarantee exactly what she will do... .you can guarantee what you will do... .and be happy with that.

Think about that for a while... .if you are worrying about what the other person will do... .especially a person that displays traits of a serious mental disorder... .that puts a lot of power over your happiness in a bad place... .a place that can cause you a lot of pain.

Much better to focus on yourself... .making healthy decisions... and leaving the pathway open for your partner to come along.  Sure... they will say they aren't coming... .will act out... .will try to get you to go back to the "old comfortable thing" they are used to... .your big reactions... .

Don't buy into it... .stay on a healthy path.

 

FF

Still trying to figure out how to edit quotes on my phone!

Well, you're right, of course. It's funny how you can read posts here where someone is very confused, and has so many reasons why this particular time with their pwBPD is somehow different... .and it's so obvious *from the outside* that it's the same crap, different day. She blocked me only two weeks before this, that being a very serious rejection she had done only once before... .and I didn't react. I didn't contact. Nothing. Of course she is trying something different to get a reaction.

Yes, giving someone power over my happiness. That is what I keep coming back to, and what my T has implied. It is so hard to do, so hard to even understand how it could be possible not to do this. I'm trying, but wow.

I do appreciate the feedback. Other people don't understand, and can't give good advice. "She just needs to knock it off." Well... . 

[formflier]

It's funny how you can read posts here where someone is very confused, and has so many reasons why this particular time with their pwBPD is somehow different... .and it's so obvious *from the outside* that it's the same crap, different day. 

Yep... .

I find this forum very effective at two things.

1.  The basic education so that we can understand the disorder much better.

2.  Giving good advice when a person is "FOGed up"... .or "in the moment.

The last one is still something I get help on here... .and... .now that people know me here... they can nudge me back.  And... .after the zillionth time they tell me not to "negotiate" with my wife... .or "count on" it... .  It kinda sinks in... .   

FF

[whitebackatcha]

And... .after the zillionth time they tell me not to "negotiate" with my wife... .or "count on" it... .  It kinda sinks in... .   

We're allowed a zillion reminders? What a relief! I was worried I might run out soon, at this rate. 

[whitebackatcha]

It just occurred to me that the ST is the only form of power she potentially has over me right now. I took away the power of unfriending or blocking. I took away the power to get attention from me through public posts, and the power to ignore my efforts if she so chose. Not texting or calling me is literally all she has. No wonder she is clinging to it so tightly.

[takingandsending]

Hi whitebackatcha,

It sounds like you are entering a better head/heart space ... .not as anxious. Is that correct? And if so, what do you attribute the change to?

It's helpful to take stock and see what is working for you as a reminder when the next difficult time may come around. I am going through this with my uBPDw right now. We had a charged MC session when I decided my feelings and boundaries are important and let MC and wife know it. My wife has been in the pull dynamic since, which, in and of itself, isn't healthy but is preferable to the push dynamic. I need to remember what worked, stating my feelings clearly, not being bullied or badgered off of them (usually by wife making me into the perpetrator) and not judging myself for feeling frustrated (and not being afraid to be seen as frustrated and having limits).

Hang in there and keep doing what you are doing. Take care of yourself and spend some me time. You need to recharge your batteries. 

[whitebackatcha]

It sounds like you are entering a better head/heart space ... .not as anxious. Is that correct? And if so, what do you attribute the change to?

Mostly. I think I am accepting that I can't control her or the situation. The nagging fear is that I've set the bar too high for her.

It sounds like you're making great steps! Not judging yourself for feeling frustrated, that sounds like a good goal for me as well.

[vortex of confusion]

Mostly. I think I am accepting that I can't control her or the situation. The nagging fear is that I've set the bar too high for her.

It sounds like you're making great steps! Not judging yourself for feeling frustrated, that sounds like a good goal for me as well.

That fear of setting the bar too high can be debilitating. At least it was for me. I had so many questions like, "Oh my goodness, if he gets mad and I tell him not to take that tone with me, is he going to flip out?" We has some rough patches where he didn't know how to handle it when I put a stop to the constant e-mailing. And, he didn't know what to do when I basically called his bluff when he would start talking about divorce. I had to get to a point where I didn't really care about his reaction so much. If I didn't want to play his games, then I didn't.

And I have been my own harshest critic. I try to let myself be angry and frustrated. If I make a mistake, I try not to beat myself up over it. I used to be so afraid of saying or doing the wrong thing and I would ruminate over it and fret about it. If you say the wrong thing, so what. You are human. I have told myself that repeatedly, "I am a human being. It is okay if I make mistakes and say the wrong thing on occasion."

[whitebackatcha]

That fear of setting the bar too high can be debilitating.

Yep. "I'm stronger, I'm more aware, I can adjust." "I'm going to have better boundaries, but this time wasn't so bad, I probably shouldn't make it into a big deal." The boundaries I've been having recently have been because I just couldn't take it anymore. But I have been on edge for weeks, and on high alert for over a year now. She has gotten irritated and ended conversations because I didn't understand what she meant immediately. She had done the same for being neutral so I can hear her thoughts first to adjust my response to meet what she wants. How do you enjoy yourself when you have been shut down right in the middle of a fun time, over and over again, in the past?

And now this thing. I'm sure she took the deactivation ad rejection. But no... .I'm sick of threats and the ST. She has even verbalized that there have been times when I have done anything, said anything, just to make her not leave. I deserve better than to keep doing that. I keep coming back to, with how much I put into this, if she can't sacrifice for me as well, it can't work anyway.

It's also difficult when her perception is truly that I keep hurting her. It doesn't matter that it's the BPD that makes her interpret things that way. It's real to her.

Sorry for the rambling, there is just so much to process.

[waverider]

It becomes easier to set the bar when you know you are willing to accept that letting go is a real choice you can live with. Otherwise fear of failure will affect your judgement call, and the bar will slide.

[formflier]

It's real to her.

Can you let it be real to her... .but not "real" to you. 

That seems to be the trick to learning validation (which I am still working on... )... .

Validating and agreeing are two different things... .

Hope this helps...

Last comment:  You seem very self aware... .being on edge.  What can YOU do to address this.  Put on your own oxygen mask first... .

FF

[whitebackatcha]

I remembered I got her a book I was never able to send her. I think I will send the book, with a note saying, "I respect your decision to end things. I got this book awhile ago, and still wanted you to have it. I hope you are doing well."

It will end on a positive note, it will make it clear why we aren't talking (which was the source of my anxiety), but it will make it easy for her not to respond unless she really wants to.

I can live with this, whatever happens, because I would know for sure that the ball is in her court.

[formflier]

"I respect your decision to end things. I got this book awhile ago, and still wanted you to have it. I hope you are doing well."

It will end on a positive note, it will make it clear why we aren't talking (which was the source of my anxiety), but it will make it easy for her not to respond unless she really wants to.

This flashes "INVALIDATION ALERT" to me.  What if she doesn't feel that she ended it?  Remember... .it's not about reality (from point of view of person observing the two of you).  It's about feelings... .totally... completely... from her point of view.

I think sending the book is great... .IF... .you feel good about sending it. 

I got this book awhile ago.  I thought of you and wanted to send it to you. I hope you are doing well.

To me... .this seems a lot better... .less chance of being twisted (although they can usually twist about anything.

How does the bolded sentence seem different to you... .than what you wrote?

FF

[whitebackatcha]

"I respect your decision to end things. I got this book awhile ago, and still wanted you to have it. I hope you are doing well."

It will end on a positive note, it will make it clear why we aren't talking (which was the source of my anxiety), but it will make it easy for her not to respond unless she really wants to.

This flashes "INVALIDATION ALERT" to me.  What if she doesn't feel that she ended it?  Remember... .it's not about reality (from point of view of person observing the two of you).  It's about feelings... .totally... completely... from her point of view.

I think sending the book is great... .IF... .you feel good about sending it. 

I got this book awhile ago.  I thought of you and wanted to send it to you. I hope you are doing well.

To me... .this seems a lot better... .less chance of being twisted (although they can usually twist about anything.

How does the bolded sentence seem different to you... .than what you wrote?

FF

You're right. I'm being defensive instead of owning my feelings. I am trying to make sure she knows I am confused about the status of things because of the conversations on Monday... .so I should just say that. But I didn't want to, because it would make me feel vulnerable. This is a theme for me. I'm glad you pointed it out. I'll adjust accordingly.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[takingandsending]

Hi whitebackatcha.

Oh boy. Feeling vulnerable with our BPD partners ... .that is scary. For me, I realize it is about being vulnerable with anybody. I am willing to bet that a lot of us have a history with FOO (or others) of finding it difficult to share our feelings with others. The allure of the person with BPD is that they are so sensitive, so genuinely caring during the idealization phase.

So, how do you share what you are feeling right now with your partner? Tools like SET are effective with the caveat that they work best in non-escalated situations. It's been quiet. Typically, pwBPD do climb down from escalation given time. Using SET may at least allow you to describe your truth in a non-threatening way. Can you think of a SET that really gets to the heart of the confusion and fear that you are experiencing?

[whitebackatcha]

Oh boy. Feeling vulnerable with our BPD partners ... .that is scary. For me, I realize it is about being vulnerable with anybody. I am willing to bet that a lot of us have a history with FOO (or others) of finding it difficult to share our feelings with others. The allure of the person with BPD is that they are so sensitive, so genuinely caring during the idealization phase.

All of this, exactly. For me, I would add that it is about not feeling like my feelings matter and deserve to be heard, I just realized. I'm mulling over how expressing feelings could possibly be about strength, rather than living in fear and being quiet.

As far as SET, I decided to just go with basically, "I felt confused, but didn't want to be pushy. I wanted to be clear that my deactivation was about xyz, but I am still fully open to continuing the relationship." Then, I'm just speaking for myself, and am not asking anything of her, because I don't need her to do anything here other than understand. This seems to be the best way to communicate with her in general, when possible.

[takingandsending]

As far as SET, I decided to just go with basically, "I felt confused, but didn't want to be pushy. I wanted to be clear that my deactivation was about xyz, but I am still fully open to continuing the relationship."

It's good to stay with your feelings in most RS. I don't think it works for pwBPD. Have you tried doing the full Sympathy/Empathy before Truth with her?

Sympathy: I really love you, and I am on your side.

Empathy: I can understand how you may have felt hurt (or angry? or abandoned?) when I deactivated my accounts.

Truth: I don't want our RS to end over a misunderstanding. You mean more to me than a misunderstanding. Things work better between us when we talk to each other. Will you talk to me?

This is the only way that I have found to be vulnerable with my wife that has enough safety for me. I do have to be unattached to the results. She may or may not hear my truth, but there is self-love and strength in expressing it. Maybe it is the strength to love yourself and walk out of an RS that does not serve you. Maybe it is the strength to remain in the RS and find ways that it works for you. Either outcome, you are building your own emotional resilience, and that will not hurt you. 

PS - I wish it were easier for you, for people like us dealing with this. It's as if all of our weaknesses and insecurities are turned out and exposed living in this type of RS, and we have to deal with ourselves to be able to remain and deal with our partners. Some kind of personal hell, to be sure.

[whitebackatcha]

It's good to stay with your feelings in most RS. I don't think it works for pwBPD. Have you tried doing the full Sympathy/Empathy before Truth with her?

Sympathy: I really love you, and I am on your side.

Empathy: I can understand how you may have felt hurt (or angry? or abandoned?) when I deactivated my accounts.

Truth: I don't want our RS to end over a misunderstanding. You mean more to me than a misunderstanding. Things work better between us when we talk to each other. Will you talk to me?

This is the only way that I have found to be vulnerable with my wife that has enough safety for me. I do have to be unattached to the results. She may or may not hear my truth, but there is self-love and strength in expressing it. Maybe it is the strength to love yourself and walk out of an RS that does not serve you. Maybe it is the strength to remain in the RS and find ways that it works for you. Either outcome, you are building your own emotional resilience, and that will not hurt you. 

PS - I wish it were easier for you, for people like us dealing with this. It's as if all of our weaknesses and insecurities are turned out and exposed living in this type of RS, and we have to deal with ourselves to be able to remain and deal with our partners. Some kind of personal hell, to be sure.

The thing is, I don't actually know how she is feeling, so I wouldn't know how to empathize. I'm trying to at least not invalidate, even if I'm not sure how to validate. It has gone very poorly any time I have used a feeling word that hasn't already been used by her. Regarding the E, saying "It makes sense you would feel that way," "I know you feel upset right now," or even just using the word feel (because these aren't "feelings", this is reality) have all upset her because they feel patronizing to her.

Thank you, yes, I am trying to view all this as a growing experience. It alarms me that I ended up with someone like this in the first place, but I have been beaten down until I have finally seen the value in having boundaries. Years of therapy and self analysis didn't accomplish that!

[takingandsending]

Yes, there is always that risk. Does your gf usually correct you (after berating you for blah, blah, blah) to let you know what she is feeling if you get it wrong? Or do you get the double whammy of, if you don't know what I'm feeling by now ... .?

In either case, sometimes, you just have to chance it. Let her have her emotions around you guessing at her feelings, but don't defend what you said. Sometimes, I will tell my wife, "Good. You are angry, not sad. Got it. Well, I can understand how you would feel angry, too, when ... ." The point is, SET isn't about placating the pwBPD. It's about expressing your truth, as honestly and safely as you can. That's your part of the exercise. Her part is her part. She either is willing to engage or she is not, but you can't control that. When it works, it can be really helpful.

[whitebackatcha]

Yes, there is always that risk. Does your gf usually correct you (after berating you for blah, blah, blah) to let you know what she is feeling if you get it wrong? Or do you get the double whammy of, if you don't know what I'm feeling by now ... .?

... .

The point is, SET isn't about placating the pwBPD. It's about expressing your truth, as honestly and safely as you can. That's your part of the exercise. Her part is her part. She either is willing to engage or she is not, but you can't control that. When it works, it can be really helpful.

She just blows up and half the time ends the conversation all together. Her ideal would be to never discuss feelings at all, hers or mine. She wants to ignore the whole thing.

Yes, I've only just started trying these new techniques, and that is a good reminder. Things are such a mess, there have been so many areas to address, like not reacting to the ST, and not tolerating hurtful language. I assume that is part of why she left in the way she did, that she was uncomfortable with the changes, and that is scary, too.

[waverider]

Dont try to empathize unless she is trying to communicate a feeling. Otherwise it becomes presumptuous and imposing. Which leads to invalidation

Do not get empathizing mixed up with understanding. Empathizing can simply be acknowledging an emotion without actually understanding what she is expressing.