My child's birthday.

[hurting300]

Tomorrow is my daughter's second birthday... .As many of you know my ex vanished with my child and she went into hiding and silent treatment with me it was over a year before we caught her and I got full custody of my baby. Well my ex wants to be with her for her birthday. I said yeah sure . You can't see her because you made me miss everything with her. Could someone talk me out of being so vindictive... .I do not want to use my child as a prop to get even but it's coming to it. I'm so mad at her. Still.

[Mutt]

Hi hurting300,

I can understand how distressing that would feel that you didn't see your baby for a year. That's tough.

When is the last time D saw mom? I understand that you have full custody and what is your ex proposing? She visits D with you? Does she want to have her for a visit with her?

How is D2 coping? My S is turning 4 next week and he was young when mom and dad split, he was younger than your D. It was hard for him not seeing dad. I had the kids every second weekend until I got a court order.

[Turkish]

How is your daughter coping? What's best for her, and most importantly (and this may be hard to seperate from your feelings), what's best to keep your baby emotionally safe?

[hurting300]

The court gave me the authority to decide visits with the mother because she is a flight risk. The child is adjusting well to her new home with me. I'm just angry. I do not want to be that kind of parent. I'm just really wanting to "get even". I have a feeling she is just using the child for leverage. My ex has only seen our baby once since court and she is already behind on child support. I just want to be the bigger person. It's hard.

[Turkish]

How is your D doing? Does she ask for Mommy? Do you have support from a T to navigate this? You're defaulting to protecting your child, that's good...

[Mutt]

I can understand angry feelings. If the judge decided that she us a flight risk I think that telegraphs how serious the situation is.

I think that we need to provide emotional support and guidance as the non-disordered parent and it can be very frustrating when we have a mentally ill ex partner.

I agree with Turkish and your D is young. There's a day that she'll have her own feelings to sort through about mom. I can understand wanting to get back at your ex partner, I can relate.

She doesn't have control with how I conduct myself and I choose to emotionally support and guide my kids, I can see the positive effects that I have on my kids with validation, and being hands-on. She is their mother and they view her with unconditional love and they may have their own feelings and questions about her behaviors in the future and I would like that they don't have resentful feelings towards dad.

It can be incredibly frustrating with mom. For example with daycare and she had talked about wanting to pull them out and it was stressful. I found out from the director at the daycare that she had renewed her subsidy until 2016 and she has said nothing to me about it. It's sneaky and it shows how she acts like a child sometimes.

I get it. I think getting even is trying to do what's best for the kids, guide and emotionally support them, not have the kids in the middle of divorce poison and talking bad about mom etc and being the best dad that you can be, be a rock for her. She'll appreciate you for it later on.

You may just need some more time behind you? I understand that it's not always easy taking the high road and are you having conflicted feelings? Do you feel like letting mom be there at D's birthday?

[hurting300]

The way I feel now it's like I'm disordered. I know i shouldn't be this way. And believe me i want to stop this thought process because it's not normal. The mother will be allowed to visit my home during the party. However I made it clear she is to get into therapy before she can have any type of relationship with the child. If she truly loves our child she'll get help. You know, it completely rips my heart out when my ex calls. I remember two years ago we would date and laugh. I pray she'll get well. I know it's not her fault.

[hurting300]

How is your D doing? Does she ask for Mommy? Do you have support from a T to navigate this? You're defaulting to protecting your child, that's good...

she does ask from time to time. And I think she is doing good for the most part.

[Mutt]

The way I feel now it's like I'm disordered. I know i shouldn't be this way. And believe me i want to stop this thought process because it's not normal. The mother will be allowed to visit my home during the party. However I made it clear she is to get into therapy before she can have any type of relationship with the child. If she truly loves our child she'll get help. You know, it completely rips my heart out when my ex calls. I remember two years ago we would date and laugh. I pray she'll get well. I know it's not her fault.

I can understand how frustrating it would be when we're tired of feeling like we're disordered. Don't be hard on yourself. I think it takes time to reach a place of acceptance.

Have you heard of radical acceptance?

[hurting300]

The way I feel now it's like I'm disordered. I know i shouldn't be this way. And believe me i want to stop this thought process because it's not normal. The mother will be allowed to visit my home during the party. However I made it clear she is to get into therapy before she can have any type of relationship with the child. If she truly loves our child she'll get help. You know, it completely rips my heart out when my ex calls. I remember two years ago we would date and laugh. I pray she'll get well. I know it's not her fault.

I can understand how frustrating it would be when we're tired of feeling like we're disordered. Don't be hard on yourself. I think it takes time to reach a place of acceptance.

Have you heard of radical acceptance?

yes I've heard of it but I'm not sure what to think of it. I told the therapist i wanted revenge. And she said it's normal to and you did win the war. If I won so much then why does it feel like I lost? What exactly did i win? I had to fight for my baby or I would have never seen her again. So now my ex really hates my guts. But she can't seem to understand that she did wrong.

[LimboFL]

Hurting, I cannot even begin to comprehend what you went through without your child, for an entire year. To add to that, that you didn't know where they were to the equation is simply outside of anything I could even imagine.

It is a catastrophically difficult contemplation you are facing.

May I ask if your ex treated your daughter well, during that year? This comes with the understanding that it is all relative, consider BPD, but do you feel that your daughter was safe, fed, cared for etc?

If the answer is yes (again baring the difficulties we all face as parents) then I believe that annexing your D from her Mother could do quite a lot of damage, to a child that has already been through a great deal. I do not say any of this lightly. The emotional mountain that you have to climb to get to that point is harrowing and heart wrenching, at best.

You also risk damaging your own relationship with your daughter, because as she gets older, she might blame you for not having allowed her to be with her Mom.

I am sadly confident that your stipulation (get help) will go unaccomplished, no matter how severe the stakes. Your hope and desire is very loving and honorable.

Depending on your ex's connection to her daughter, you could also do more damage to your ex, who might then lose the connection and then there are three damaged people in the mix, you, your daughter and your ex.

We all know how much of an impact our young childhoods have on us. We speak of BPD's and their damage coming from infancy, so I believe that we shouldn't rely on your D's youth to hold off on critical decisions.

Please know that I am trying to see things from a non emotional position. As mentioned, I have the greatest empathy for your situation. You are clearly a very kind and loving man who has been thrust into this soul crushing situation simply because you fell in love with a person with a mental disorder. That is why we are all here and like so many you clearly still care deeply for your ex and have deep empathy for the pain she has and continues to endure. So again, please do not see my response as being in any way flippant. I have a beautiful 14 year old son, so I understand the emotions perfectly. Fortunately, he was born of a marriage to a non. My exBPD put a strain on my relationship with my boy.

As others have stated, at this point, despite your anger and justifiable heartache, ultimately decisions have to based on what is best for the child. It is one thing if the ex severs ties and runs off, but clearly your ex years for her child, so there is a natural bond. (supervised visitation)

Stay strong. While we are a bunch of unknowns, BPD Family are all here to support you.

[iluminati]

I'm in a somewhat similar situation in that I have primary custody of my D, though my ex hasn't proven a flight risk.  My exwBPD currently has visitation every other weekend.  What I would do with the birthday (and with any sort of contact going forward) is to focus on events.  Make sure your ex has a chance to visit, but make sure there are plenty of people around so that she's never alone with your D.  Obviously an order to visit limitation demonstrates the seriousness of the situation.  However, your D has a mother that is alive.  She deserves at least the opportunity to develop a relationship with her.  I know the tendency is to say screw you, but it isn't worth it in the long run.

[hurting300]

I totally agree with everyone here. And her grandma had to help with the baby most of the time because she can't hold down a job for long at all. I want them to have a relationship for sure. But I'm scared she'll run again. I guess that part that bothers me is all the professionals are telling me not to feel sorry for her because she knows full well what she is doing and don't let my guard down.

[Mutt]

Hi hurting300,

Do you feel confused with what the professionals told you and how you feel with your values? I'm picking up that you shouldn't feel the way that you feel. Is that it? What did they say about your D and her feelings about mom?

[hurting300]

Hi hurting300,

Do you feel confused with what the professionals told you and how you feel with your values? I'm picking up that you shouldn't feel the way that you feel. Is that it? What did they say about your D and her feelings about mom?

my values are to have compassion but to hold people responsible for there actions. It's a tough balance. They are telling me to give mom a chance but monitoring is key. I think I need to slack off the one track thinking and just give a chance but be careful.

[Mutt]

 

You have the right ideas.

I think you can cut yourself some slack.

Your experience was emotionally distressing and reaching acceptance can take time.

[LimboFL]

If all of the "professionals" are telling you not to feel sorry for your ex and that everything is calculated, then IMHO you need to speak with other professionals. The only excuse that the former group might have is if their sole interest is in helping you heal but there is a child in the mix. You fell in love with this woman, so only you can truly know.

With that said, clearly, as she has proven to be a flight risk, they are correct that you can't trust her ever again, to be alone with your daughter. Even saying this is horrible. I have a friend facing the exact situation that you are in and it has been a battle and doesn't get any better. A very real consequence of all of this is that the pwBPD disregulate even more because of the separation and stress that comes with this process. So their mental state gets even worse.

I am so deeply sorry for you, your daughter and your ex. This disorder is so cruel to all involved. Short of the supervised visitation component, I would ignore the "professionals". Go with your gut as it pertains to how you evaluate your ex's emotions in all of this. As I say time and time again, pwBPD are human beings, who have the disorder because of how poorly they were treated. It takes time and a lot of will power to heal and empathize. Again, the only objective here is to always think of your daughter and the impact decisions will have on her own mental health.

Stay strong. We are all rooting for you and hoping for the best, in arduous conditions.

[hurting300]

If all of the "professionals" are telling you not to feel sorry for your ex and that everything is calculated, then IMHO you need to speak with other professionals. The only excuse that the former group might have is if their sole interest is in helping you heal but there is a child in the mix. You fell in love with this woman, so only you can truly know.

With that said, clearly, as she has proven to be a flight risk, they are correct that you can't trust her ever again, to be alone with your daughter. Even saying this is horrible. I have a friend facing the exact situation that you are in and it has been a battle and doesn't get any better. A very real consequence of all of this is that the pwBPD disregulate even more because of the separation and stress that comes with this process. So their mental state gets even worse.

I am so deeply sorry for you, your daughter and your ex. This disorder is so cruel to all involved. Short of the supervised visitation component, I would ignore the "professionals". Go with your gut as it pertains to how you evaluate your ex's emotions in all of this. As I say time and time again, pwBPD are human beings, who have the disorder because of how poorly they were treated. It takes time and a lot of will power to heal and empathize. Again, the only objective here is to always think of your daughter and the impact decisions will have on her own mental health.

Stay strong. We are all rooting for you and hoping for the best, in arduous conditions.

I've seen her do calculated things. But I respect what your saying and I think your right.

[enlighten me]

Hi Hurting

I can understand your pain. Sometimes we have to put that aside for the sake of our children. We have to consider how our children will feel years down the line. Could you live with having your daughter resenting you for not letting her have a relationship with her mum?

I can understand you want to have precautions. I certainly wouldn't let my ex have my son on her own if she had done what your ex did.

Your daughters birthday is an ideal situation for her to see her daughter in a safe environment with you surrounded by friends and family.

Another thing to consider is further down the line if she takes you back to court how will it look if you haven't given her any access?

Ive had to do a number of shared birthdays and Christmases all at my exs place. It hurts at the end of the day I had to leave my children behind. Apart from that its not the most comfortable situation to be in.

[ScaredScarred]

Wow, I can relate. I'm new here, so it's surprising for me to find people who are telling my story. Right down to the "i won but feel like i lost" sentiment. My exBPD, 2 year old daughter's father (don't know all the acronyms), doesn't see/understand what he did wrong either. His mom posted something on my facebook that's spoken to me: "you can't change someone who doesn't see an issue with their actions".

I guess we can hold our babies tight knowing that they're safe, grin through our teeth on birthdays, and try and come to radical acceptance of the role we play in reducing the conflict in our child's life.

I look at it this way when I have a clearer head: i may look back at the good stuff 2+ years ago, but he's not that person anymore, and if the courts see it from a safety perspective, then i need to see it. not for me, but for my daughter. i am a victim of recycling domestic violence, and sometimes i need to be given the tools to build the skills to get to where I need to be so I can role model healthy living for my daughter, which I can't do if I'm reacting and responding in a codependent way rather than an empowered, resilient way.

Plus, if I give him an inch, he takes the whole mile of toilet paper with his crap, so it's easier to not let it get started than trying to reign it in once it starts. if i poke the beast, or allow the beast in to my safe zone (one that the courts have legitimated), i have started something that i can't control after the first boundary violation.

I hope your daughter had/has a happy birthday. And that you were able to smile for her even if you were dying on the inside. She'll remember that smile long after the shiny lights and pretty presents and fairweather people are gone.

[/quote]
yes I've heard of it but I'm not sure what to think of it. I told the therapist i wanted revenge. And she said it's normal to and you did win the war. If I won so much then why does it feel like I lost? What exactly did i win? I had to fight for my baby or I would have never seen her again. So now my ex really hates my guts. But she can't seem to understand that she did wrong. [/quote]

[david]

My view is our kids are the most important part of anything I do or decide no matter what my ex wants to do. I always make my decisions based on that belief.

My ex is not diagnosed but exhibits all criteria except maybe suicidal ideation and even that is questionable.

If my ex ever did get the help she needs and does get better I figure I would see it clearly. Until that time I will not trust anything she says to me. With that in mind I figure that if she did get better she would then understand why I did the things I did and realize I was doing what was best for our kids.

If the courts view her as a flight risk I would take that very seriously.

Supervised visitation is a possibility if you don't want to see or be near her. Just find someone you can trust and possibly let the police know ahead of time in case ex tries something and the police get involved.

[Stolen]

Hurting,

I know too well the feelings of revenge and vindictiveness.  I am not an overly religious person, but I regularly ask God for forgiveness for wanting His power of judgement. 

In my case my daughters were separated, isolated, and then effectively alienated from me.  Deliberate, aggressive, and brutally effective.  The one thought that helps is "Revenge is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies"  (or something like that).  It helps me see these feelings for what they are: destructive to me. 

Not for her sake, but for yours, try to relinquish the revenge out of pure selfishness, your health and well-being depend on it. 

[hurting300]

Hurting,

I know too well the feelings of revenge and vindictiveness.  I am not an overly religious person, but I regularly ask God for forgiveness for wanting His power of judgement. 

In my case my daughters were separated, isolated, and then effectively alienated from me.  Deliberate, aggressive, and brutally effective.  The one thought that helps is "Revenge is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies"  (or something like that).  It helps me see these feelings for what they are: destructive to me. 

Not for her sake, but for yours, try to relinquish the revenge out of pure selfishness, your health and well-being depend on it. 

I'm not seeking revenge now. She is actually doing a good job of it on her own. But she disappeared with our child for a year or more. So I have to be careful.

[Turkish]

Agree with being careful. Your Ex demonstrated that she can't be trusted. You were vindicated in court. I'm curious, have you thought about posting the details of how this played out legally on the legal board? At this pont, a summary. It may help others, while giving you space to continue to process this. That is, being a mentor there. You've been through this and despite the struggles, pain, and anger, come out of it.

[hurting300]

Agree with being careful. Your Ex demonstrated that she can't be trusted. You were vindicated in court. I'm curious, have you thought about posting the details of how this played out legally on the legal board? At this pont, a summary. It may help others, while giving you space to continue to process this. That is, being a mentor there. You've been through this and despite the struggles, pain, and anger, come out of it.

yeah I could definitely do that. I'm trying too figure out how to give advise without sounding to angry and vindictive you know? I've gotten better, but the only way to win in court against them is to show proof. Record, video and audio. And be honest. Sometimes you have to get on the BPD level ... .Some of the things I did to get answers would look like stalking and obsessing but like the judge said (any parent would go to extreme lengths to get their baby back from danger)...

[enlighten me]

Hi Hurting

Its been a long road for you and you are not the same person you where when you first came here. I saw your first post the other day and your response to seeing it.

I have a similar but different situation if that makes sense. My boys now live with me. The difference is they no longer want anything to do with their mum. Its their decision and I have to respect it. My dilemma is how will they feel in a few years time? Will they regret their decision? Will it have an effect on them in later life? What if their mum does something and they then blame themselves for it?

Their mums not a flight risk so I don't have that worry. Its also the boys decision so they cant blame me for not having a relationship with their mum. I do still worry though.

Having contact with your daughter could be whats needed for your ex to start sorting out her life. It may be enough to make her a mum.

At the end of the day all our circumstances are different. What we all have in common is that to make a balanced decision we have to take everything into consideration.

EM

[hurting300]

Hi Hurting

Its been a long road for you and you are not the same person you where when you first came here. I saw your first post the other day and your response to seeing it.

I have a similar but different situation if that makes sense. My boys now live with me. The difference is they no longer want anything to do with their mum. Its their decision and I have to respect it. My dilemma is how will they feel in a few years time? Will they regret their decision? Will it have an effect on them in later life? What if their mum does something and they then blame themselves for it?

Their mums not a flight risk so I don't have that worry. Its also the boys decision so they cant blame me for not having a relationship with their mum. I do still worry though.

Having contact with your daughter could be whats needed for your ex to start sorting out her life. It may be enough to make her a mum.

At the end of the day all our circumstances are different. What we all have in common is that to make a balanced decision we have to take everything into consideration.

EM

Fear is what is keeping me from letting her visit. What if I turn my back and she runs? And I have to remember she purposely hurt me over our child. Just to make a point that she could. I told her, therapy or no visit, not even a phone call. Well I didn't tell her, my letter that I wrote did. I feel terrible for my ex I really do but it's like trusting a starving lion. If you guys could just see how cold and ruthless she is you would understand. It's mind boggling just how cunning she is .

[enlighten me]

I can totally relate. My ex wife used my sons as a weapon. Not allowing access. Manipulating them. Threatening that I wouldn't see them. I know how low they can stoop. You have to do what is necessary to protect your daughter.

I don't think there is a safer scenario for your ex to see her than a family birthday. With your daughter the centre attention and surrounded by friends and family. At the end of the day its your call and you have to do what you are comfortable with.

I can fully understand you wanting her to seek therapy. Unfortunately forced therapy seldom works. They can go through the motions to get what they want. I saw a program on prison rehabilitation where psychopaths used therapy to hone their skills.

[ambivalentmom]

Good Afternoon,

    I meant to write earlier today, but wanted to spend some time reading your previous posts.  I really only wanted to support you and tell you that you are not her and are not turning into a parent who uses their child to get back at the other parent.  You came to this site for support and honest communication on what to do.  You are an amazing father!  

I hope everything is working out and always know that your feelings are appropriate.  Your children are your whole world.  Hurting your children, taking them away, or turning them against you is the worst thing anyone can do.  Stay strong and try hard to always look at mom visits as impartially as possible.  You want to calculate risk associated with your daughter knowing her mom.  Please let us know how things have been going lately.

[momtara]

If she is a flight risk, under no circumstances should you let the child be alone with her. Period.

However, if you can use or hire a trustworthy supervisor for a visit, or something else where you are assured she can't run away or hurt the child, perhaps you can do that.

The issue of your emotional need for revenge is separate. I think it's natural as long as you don't let it hurt anyone. But you also want your ex to realize or acknowledge what she did wrong. That's very difficult for a PD person. It's possible it will happen in time. The fact that you got your D2 and that you are trying to force her into counseling before she can have a relationship with your D does make her feel small, so in a way she is getting the brunt of karma.

Hopefully your D2 can have a relationship with her mother someday and not in a way that puts her at risk.