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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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hurting300
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« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2015, 12:25:58 AM »

Thanks for the advise everyone, I've not got a problem with my child seeing my ex at all. What I'm trying to do is reestablish a bond with her and just take things slowly. I'm trying to get out of revenge mode because seriously it's stupid on my part.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2015, 12:57:51 AM »

Be safe. Your child's safety is paramount until she gets a lot older. You know this.

I get the revenge thing. Though my Ex is high-functioning, I have thoughts about exposing her. S5 was written up at school for biting a kid this week. Two years is Sunday school, pre school and pre-kindergarten, and this was the first incident. He told the school, "I was angry because Mommy was mad at me the morning." Turns out that on Sunday there was an incident where he ran off from his mom and her family, angry and invalidated. It bugged me that 6 or 7 adults couldn't handle a 5 yo. Wednesday, I talked to my Ex's husband (affair partner) to get his take on it. That was tough for me, but I needed more data.

Time by itself doesn't heal all wounds. It takes perserverence. I'm trying. You're trying, too. My locus is my kids: what's best for them. I hate my anger. Two years out, I don't like that I still feel such strong emotions. I'm working on it. You're working on it. Accept it, and keep moving. For what it's worth, I'm with you man.
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« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2015, 01:01:39 AM »

Hi Hurting

It is hard to get out of that mind set. I had it for a long time. Its not good for us. That bitterness can become like a cancer eating away at us.

Im glad your working at letting it go.

Im sure we all know someone that wasn't able to let go of this and has remained bitter. Its not a nice thing to see and I don't think anyone wants to be that person.

Im sure you'll work something out that protects your daughter and you are comfortable with.
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hurting300
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« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2015, 01:46:08 AM »

Sometimes I think I'm lucky because I was able to really see her disorder written thru out her diaries... .Her life played out all on paper it's amazing really. My people think a lot is wrong with her than a simple personality disorder is how they put it. So it's hard to explain really. NASA top men would have a hard time hahaha sorry a bit of family guy humor there. Anger is good but I don't like it now. I just want her better. The first eight months I prayed that they both were safe and happy ... .Have you ever been sitting at a red light and all of a sudden a memory pops up and you cry? Or taking a walking and thinking your having a heart attack the pain is so bad? This has been a nightmare for me. We even went to the same college and I never notice her until that one faithful day online... .It's like God placed her to me but I can't figure out why .
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2015, 07:30:29 AM »

Validation.  It is ok to be angry - it is understandable to be angry.  Running away with a child is a HUGE issue.  Now it's just how you cope with that anger.  You've acknowledged the anger and that means you can find some means of coping with the emotion.

One thing that I've found happens when evaluating these situations, it's enstilled by the BP, is that you the NON question your decisions and ask whether we are the disordered one.  Some of the paranoid type reactions do at times seem like we are the disordered party.  Some of the things my ex does are extremely difficult to explain or understand not having the history.  So if you feel/sense something may not be advisable, your gut telling you, you are probably well justified in trusting your gut.

Rationalizing could work here too, has ex gotten any help for her disorder in the timespan that you've had you daughter back?  If not, why would she change.

As far as wanting her to change, probably wasted energy there.  You can't do it for her and wishing she changes is a loss of time and energy.  Brutal but true.  With denial being such a huge coping skill for BPs, it is difficult to even consider change.  My ex gets to the point that she will repeat her distortions as if they are reality - gets so deep into her distortions that they create her (false) reality.   
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« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2015, 04:19:05 PM »

My ex literally emptied our house back in 2007. I mean everything. The house had 47 electrical plate covers. She took them all. I had to buy new ones so that is why I know how many. We had three bathrooms and she took all the toilet paper holders. I mean everything except in our attic. She left an empty box and on top was a journal she wrote about two years prior to us meeting and 6 months to a year afterwards. That did help me "understand" who she really was too.
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hurting300
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« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2015, 11:26:44 PM »

My ex literally emptied our house back in 2007. I mean everything. The house had 47 electrical plate covers. She took them all. I had to buy new ones so that is why I know how many. We had three bathrooms and she took all the toilet paper holders. I mean everything except in our attic. She left an empty box and on top was a journal she wrote about two years prior to us meeting and 6 months to a year afterwards. That did help me "understand" who she really was too.

wow man. Did we date the same woman Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)? And you know, they tell on themselves as well, just remember back and she probably told you how she was. It amazes me why they would leave behind such private thoughts
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
hurting300
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« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2015, 11:28:08 PM »

Validation.  It is ok to be angry - it is understandable to be angry.  Running away with a child is a HUGE issue.  Now it's just how you cope with that anger.  You've acknowledged the anger and that means you can find some means of coping with the emotion.

One thing that I've found happens when evaluating these situations, it's enstilled by the BP, is that you the NON question your decisions and ask whether we are the disordered one.  Some of the paranoid type reactions do at times seem like we are the disordered party.  Some of the things my ex does are extremely difficult to explain or understand not having the history.  So if you feel/sense something may not be advisable, your gut telling you, you are probably well justified in trusting your gut.

Rationalizing could work here too, has ex gotten any help for her disorder in the timespan that you've had you daughter back?  If not, why would she change.

As far as wanting her to change, probably wasted energy there.  You can't do it for her and wishing she changes is a loss of time and energy.  Brutal but true.  With denial being such a huge coping skill for BPs, it is difficult to even consider change.  My ex gets to the point that she will repeat her distortions as if they are reality - gets so deep into her distortions that they create her (false) reality.   

yes it is wasted energy. My psychologist told me is very grim chance she'll ever change.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2015, 06:40:40 AM »

I've often written what I've learned here... .

  • Courts generally don't try to change the parents, they deal with them as they are.


  • Unless the disordered person gets into intensive therapy and actually applies it throughout thinking, perceptions and behaviors, then yes change is very unlikely and we would be fools to hope otherwise.


If the court gave you discretion to decide on how much visitation to allow, then the court trusts you to have good judgment.  Use it wisely, don't feel guilted or obligated to be the Overly Nice Guy.  It's okay to say, "Not now, perhaps later."  It probably would be a kindness to state what improvements "later" would require.  Whether and to what extent you tie it to her getting into therapy and other requirements is, I guess, also up to you.  You may be able to get her there to appointments but whether she actually does anything with the therapy - and not faking it - is largely out of your control.
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hurting300
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« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2015, 09:27:32 AM »

I've often written what I've learned here... .

  • Courts generally don't try to change the parents, they deal with them as they are.


  • Unless the disordered person gets into intensive therapy and actually applies it throughout thinking, perceptions and behaviors, then yes change is very unlikely and we would be fools to hope otherwise.


If the court gave you discretion to decide on how much visitation to allow, then the court trusts you to have good judgment.  Use it wisely, don't feel guilted or obligated to be the Overly Nice Guy.  It's okay to say, "Not now, perhaps later."  It probably would be a kindness to state what improvements "later" would require.  Whether and to what extent you tie it to her getting into therapy and other requirements is, I guess, also up to you.  You may be able to get her there to appointments but whether she actually does anything with the therapy - and not faking it - is largely out of your control.

I feel sorry for my ex, but ... .I don't play games now. I'm very stern with her. I'm actually starting not to care if she gets help or not. She's 30 years old and from what I was told knows right from wrong. So it's up to her. I'm just focusing on my baby and getting her raised up right. And yes the court trusted me with my other daughter that I have full custody of. The secret is to winning in court for men is to gather information on your enemy and stay calm.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2015, 02:10:52 PM »

So I'm also a parent who has full custody of her child --- well, "had" full custody. He's 19 now.

It's really, really important that you remain grounded in this. Your feelings of hurt and anger and wanting revenge and vindictiveness are pretty normal, we feel what we feel right?  But withholding a child from the other parent based on our own feelings is not OK.

I say that because sometimes we have a hard time when we are so emotionally involved in the situation. I was very, very worried about all the things you are worried about --- from kidnapping (cause, well, he threatened in a moment of anger towards me) to my son being confused or hurt --- and it's all valid. It's also important that he know his dad. We're also not always well equipped to know exactly on how to properly handle the situation because we're so emotionally invested (and afraid). They're our babies.  

I suggest that you perhaps invest in a neutral therapist specifically for your daughter, one who is only on the side of your kiddo.  Let her know that you only want to do the right thing.

What is your custody schedule? I mean if you have full custody, does she have no visitation whatsoever? Is it supervised? Are there conditions to her visting?

You also have to be careful as the custodial parent, I had to explain myself at trial for every time that I did not allow visitation. Having the therapist involved to keep me grounded allowed the third party to be involved so it wasn't my sole decision. Long story short, of the handful of times I said "no" it was for valid reasons and it wasn't based on my trying to alienate his father from him.

We also have to participate in facilitating a relationship with the other parent, and the boundary has to be clear --- not just "you need therapy, until then you can't see your child".
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  "What I want is what I've not got, and what I need is all around me." ~Dave Matthews

hurting300
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« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2015, 06:43:05 PM »

I'm denying a visit, because she ran away for over a year not allowing me nor my family to see the child. She would run again given the opportunity. I'm also denying visits because the court gave me the say so to schedule things based on her actions. I'm not angry now. Just have a little more common sense than I use to. When she can start paying child support and seek help she can see the baby as much as she wants. You have to know the case to fully understand what me and my family have been thru. Now with my other daughter, her mom gets her any time she sees fit. Plus I just give her back the child support money. But, she is smart and fair unlike ex number 2.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2015, 07:42:17 AM »

You're right, we would have to know the circumstances to better understand. Im only guessing that it would have to be pretty bad for a mom to have absolutely no visitation, not even supervised.

I also know that there's a lot of parents here who have been on the other side of a parent who has determined that they'll decide whether or not they are allowed visitation. We can all agree that sometimes the court can be unfair in its decision and give the other parent too much power. Again, part of being a good full custody parent is the ability to facilitate a relationship with the other parent. Otherwise, you effectively are alienating your child which is not healthy for the child either.

Is it really in your daughters best interest to never see her mom again? Its a loaded question, I know.

For my son the answer was no, its not in his best interest. Having a limited, safe place with therapeutic intervention (for him) was. He accepts his dad and they have a very realistic relationship. He also has a huge piece missing... .and really struggles sometimes.

Its about balance, acceptance, and doing right by the child.

From where I'm standing, it still seems like you're still emotionally invested. You refer to her as the enemy. It might be affecting your decisions in this, which isn't probably what the courts had in mind when they appointed you the person trying to facilitate a relationship with your little girls mom.
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  "What I want is what I've not got, and what I need is all around me." ~Dave Matthews

hurting300
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« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2015, 02:34:12 PM »

You're right, we would have to know the circumstances to better understand. Im only guessing that it would have to be pretty bad for a mom to have absolutely no visitation, not even supervised.

I also know that there's a lot of parents here who have been on the other side of a parent who has determined that they'll decide whether or not they are allowed visitation. We can all agree that sometimes the court can be unfair in its decision and give the other parent too much power. Again, part of being a good full custody parent is the ability to facilitate a relationship with the other parent. Otherwise, you effectively are alienating your child which is not healthy for the child either.

Is it really in your daughters best interest to never see her mom again? Its a loaded question, I know.

For my son the answer was no, its not in his best interest. Having a limited, safe place with therapeutic intervention (for him) was. He accepts his dad and they have a very realistic relationship. He also has a huge piece missing... .and really struggles sometimes.

Its about balance, acceptance, and doing right by the child.

From where I'm standing, it still seems like you're still emotionally invested. You refer to her as the enemy. It might be affecting your decisions in this, which isn't probably what the courts had in mind when they appointed you the person trying to facilitate a relationship with your little girls mom.

Oh I completely agree the mom should be involved with my child. And I completely agree with what you are saying fully. I sit here and I think to myself, should I let my daughter stay one night with her? What could possibly go wrong? My ex is one who has to win at all costs. She will do things to hurt you on propose. She is telling people she wants me dead. What did I do? Certainly nothing illegal to her. And honestly I know it's sad that i refer to her as the enemy. But, think about this... .What does your enemies want? For you to lose, hurt and suffer. She had every intention of never letting me see my daughter again. I spent years taking care of my ex and trying to build her up and she hates me for it. Things she says gets back to me. And I'm not for one minute going to put one ounce of trust there. I offered supervision visits. She said no I want to take her places. Seems kinda odd right... I would take anything to see my kid if I were her.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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