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Author Topic: Advice before tomorrow's MC...  (Read 438 times)
Ceruleanblue
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« on: July 19, 2015, 11:29:20 PM »

I'm on day 8 of sleeping in the spare bedroom. Today, BPDh went and spent the day with his daughter, and he addressed the issue of them excluding me. As expected she is still blaming me for something SHE did, and she is saying she is scared of me(talk about projection), even though it was HER that blew up on me, and HER who isn't over it. I'm not grudging, I actually apologized(just to get past it, even though I didn't do anything wrong, and in fact she owed me an apology for her crazy, angry behavior that day). The day it happened, I ended up leaving my home, because she wouldn't stop yelling at me, for what, I still don't know. It was the craziest thing that's ever happened to me. So, for her to now blame me, and be holding a grudge, is almost hilarious. Almost. But what it really is, is sad.

During the conversation my BPDh kept judging me, blaming me, and then he said I didn't want to try with his daughter? I'm the only one wanting reconciliation, and I only want it for BPDh's sake. Personally, I'd like to never see any of his three girls again, but I do this for him, and this is the thanks I get? He also got mocking and belittling. I lost my cool, something I usually don't do, and I said some things that I'm sure really hurt his male ego. I never do that, but I'm just sick to death of the mean, hateful, mocking things he says to me. He'll twist the knife right where it will hurt most, and he does it on purpose.

After I'd calmed down, I went back in and told him that I wished he'd stop mocking and using sarcasm and that I think it is a sign of lack of character, and that it shows he must have low self esteem. Only a small man needs to put others down, to feel big. I'm sick of him thinking because I don't get angry when he does it, that it's just okay. It's NOT.

I want to address his mocking, belittling, and sarcasm in MC tomorrow. I would think that he'd be upset that I've moved into the spare room, but he really doesn't seem to care. He certainly isn't trying to get me back by good behavior. And it feels like he back to judging and blaming, something he's stopped doing so much after he first entered DBT therapy.

I feel he's almost brainwashed by his daughter(s). He'll start off saying or feeling one way, he spends time with one of them, and he changed his tune, and his view of ME becomes negative. And nothing I say can ever sway his opinion, even if circumstances should change his view. My views aren't always set in stone, why are his? I know why, BPD is why!

How do I best address these issues in MC? I'm sick of being belittled, and I'm sick of expending all the effort with him or his kids, only to get zero credit, but getting all the blame. I've prayed about all this, tried to be the bigger person, and kept trying to offer the olive branch, but they all just judge, and grudge. BPDh and his three girls all do this.

I'm not sure I'll get anywhere in MC with this. so how do I deal with it, myself? I'm sick to death of it. I can just walk away, I know that, but when I have to do that, I'm just so MAD. I'm mad, but I have nowhere to direct that anger, and I'm not one to take it out on anyone else.
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 11:39:03 PM »

One more thing. I actually still have a lot of anxiety centered around the events of the day his daughter went crazy on me in the kitchen, along with another awful event with another daughter. I am actually scared, anxious, and have dread of being around them, so how is it this girl was the aggressor, but saying she fears me?  She has zero reason to fear me, and I didn't attack her, or blow up on her, and I was the one to walk away, and I eventually apologized(I now wish I hadn't as she seems to be gloating and taking it as an admission of guilt). BPDh coerced me to apologize.

I'm getting very, very angry that this girl is saying she's scared of me, when I'm actually very afraid of HER. I have reason to be. She's unpredictable. The "incident" happened out of the blue, and I never saw it coming. I reacted like a deer in the headlights, and then tucked tail and ran, but I'm scary?

How do I get past what I feel is a reasonable fear of being around these angry, mean, bullying girls? They've twitsted things, and lied, and are now playing victim. BPDh buys into it on some level, as he's totally enmeshed.

I'd wanted peace, and I thought we could go slow and build an at least cordial relationship, but if she'd still grudging, and blaming, how do we do that?

Maybe it will be bad for me and my emotional health to be around this girl? Maybe I need to stop doing things for BPDh's sake when he doesn't appreciate it anyway?
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Daniell85
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2015, 01:31:39 AM »

I wouldnt do a thing for him and his BPD kids. Tell him its his business, not yours. He gets to parent them without you.

Flat out boundry. They are HIS problem, not yours. You dont have to do a thing for any of them, beyond politeness if they come around you. If they are being pia, leave where they are. Not your problem.
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2015, 05:58:19 AM »

 

I would address the belittling thing as a "we" thing... .not a "him" thing.

Use I statements to talk about how it bothered you... .and then let him know that you are ready to deal with it... and hope he is as well.

Negotiate... .don't demand.  But... in back of your mind... .you know you are done listening to those comments.

Approach MC as a time to communicate... rather than a time to have issues "judged"... .

FF
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2015, 07:17:26 AM »

Uu and a friend go see a good movie, send him to counseling, he'll still blame you, but you will have done something fun and kind for yourself!
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2015, 02:55:12 PM »

Yeah, at this point, I'm seriously dreading MC today. He has DBT therapy too today, and that seems to bring out "stuff" for him. I'd love to just skip it, but I won't. I just don't understand how it's so easy for them all to blame me, and I didn't start this war, I tried to put an end to it, and they just can't let it go, any of them, BPDh included. I know his daughter said awful things about me yesterday, and he just was a clam. I'd never let my kids disrespect him, and my kids are much younger than his. His youngest is the only one we haven't had major issues with.

I truly do think they all suffer from some PD, likely BPD, but who knows what. His girls seem like pretty classic case, with one acting way more histrionic and easily influenced by her older sisters. The older two are the most toxic and angry. They are controlling and if they don't get their way(total control), they make things up and then push that person away, and bully them too. I've never knows such angry people. Such blaming people, who take zero personal responsibility. They blame others for what THEY themselves have done.

I'm going to use "I" statements, but then again, I always do, and BPDh still waves the "you are blaming me" flag. I sometimes think DBT just gave him ammo. I'd been practicing DBT techniques on him, and validation way before he even knew what those concepts were! It's just annoying. He blames and judges me so harshly, but he won't deal in facts, and he refuses to even see what is true most times.

I'm sick of being the scapegoat for his mean girls, and for HIM. I was owed some loyalty, but have gotten none. He defends the bullies, and isn't thankful for my unending efforts with these twerps. I'm done trying with them. When he came home spouting the same crap yesterday, that was it. DONE. He wanted peace, but he's done nothing to facilitate it. He hasn't stood up for me being treated decently, or had boundaries himself. I tried to get him to read up on enmeshment, but of course he won't.

He figures it's easier to get ME to accept hateful behavior from them, than it is to stand up to them. After all, they'll use their kids as pawns in their own personal war. How sick, sick, sick is that? How can my BPDh not see that? He has moments where he does, but then he'll spend time with her, and he'll revert to "Your wife is all to blame"... .WAAHH!

My life is too precious to keep dealing with all this negativity and crap.
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2015, 04:21:43 PM »

My life is too precious to keep dealing with all this negativity and crap.

I agree... .so don't.  Let his daughters and he... .do what they do.  I honestly suspect that they will ease off... once the therapy kicks in for him... .and one the daughters see that you are not affected.

They will try to send you negativity... .just let it drop... .don't engage... .

Focus more on you... .less on what they do.

Is there any way to do MC and DBT on different days.  Seems like that might be a bit much for you and he to handle in one day.   Just a thought.

Last thought for now... .  You were owed lots of stuff... .they have treated you shabbily... .horribly...

I see two courses of action.

1.  wait on them to come around and treat you better... .

2.  Move on with a life that doesn't pin your happiness... .on their behavior... opinions... .etc.

Which one of the two options above... .do you think you will have the most success with.

FF
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Ceruleanblue
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2015, 05:18:02 PM »

My happiness is in no way reliant on his daughters actions or behaviors, other than that it greatly effects how BPDh treats ME. I wouldn't care if I never saw them again, in fact, I wish I didn't have to. I can be civil and make small talk with them, but do I want to, heck NO! I was just raised to have manners and treat others decently.

I think your one option is great: wait for them to come around and treat me decently. I've done as much butt kissing as I'm willing to do for BPDh's sake. His T said it best about a year ago, when she said "I realize you wouldn't be taking this off anyone else, but because it's his kids, you have been". That totally nailed it. I wanted peace, and BPDh was unwilling to put blame where it truly belonged, so I got roped into trying to prove how hard I was trying, but no more.

I'll let you know how MC goes tonight. I have dread in the pit of my stomach.
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2015, 05:25:26 PM »

I'll let you know how MC goes tonight. I have dread in the pit of my stomach.

 

I'll check back on you later tonight.

Stay centered... .use I statements... .you will be fine!

FF
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2015, 01:43:50 AM »

Well, it went better than last week, but I could still feel the tension coming off him. I'm pretty sure he was rolling his eyes too. Another session where too much time was spent talking about his dysfunctional, mean daughter. I did mention that I'm in the spare room(after he complained about it) due to how he treats me: mocking and belittling me.

Our therapist said he needs to woo me to get me back to the bedroom. That we need to create positive experiences. He said the same thing last session, and I kept repeating that to BPDh, but it just goes over his head, or he just doesn't care to try.

We came home, watched a movie, and then after, we started talking, and he started in about the two issues we have. I asked him what those two issues are and both are related to his daughter. HOW is his daughter a MARRIAGE issue? He cites his daughter as an issue we need to work on? I'm baffled, and I think this is just gross. I later told him that I do not consider all this drama about his daughter a "marriage issue". I'm not going to work on "issues" that aren't really marriage issues. It's his daughter, I've done all I can to make peace, now it's HIS problem.

He got pretty angry and blaming about all of it again. It's like he's never going to let go of that incident that was already very painful to me. He can't let go of the past, and I'm expected to believe rewritten history. Not happening. If he wants to stay married, or be happy, he needs to stop expecting innocent people to take blame that isn't theirs. And he needs to hold his kids accountable, but that's on him, not me too.

I sort of let him have it after he blamed me, and he actually acted like he heard me for once. He finally expressed that he knows the incident was his daughters doing, and that he'll stop saying things that sound as if he's blaming me. We'll see. He's spent over a year blaming me, and mollycoddling her, so it's hard to believe he'll just stop cold turkey.

I'm just glad MC wasn't a total bust.




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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2015, 06:16:50 AM »

Hi Ceruleanblue,

I am somewhat aware of your story because when I skim through posts, i see so much of the same dynamic happening with your H that was happening with my ex, therefore I am able to relate and remember more than other posts I read. So I thought I'd chime in for what it's worth.

My ex also painted my son black and his D white.  Shunning my S but his D always on a pedestal.  Always in competition for me to join him in praising her for behavior that was NOT at all praiseworthy.  If she stole, she'd just get praise for confessing, after she was already caught anyway vs consequences for stealing... .that kind of thing.

Well, anyway... .

What i think may have been helpful for this... .

One MC told us that in order to preserve the r/s, she knew of several couples who just do not co parent at all and that can work for them.  While this is not my own vision of a partnership or a marriage, I did see her point.  I think the only way for he and I to eliminate much of our conflict would have been to just not try to cooperate on matters regarding the kids.  She even said some couples had a great r/s together, however, just choose to not be around when the spouses kids were around.  That this ended up working for them.

The idea of not dealing with co parenting with him had NEVER occurred to me.  Was not what I EVER would have wanted.  However, it likely could have saved us and been a way to give us peace and remain united... .if we could separate issues with the kids out of the r/s.

Just something to consider.
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2015, 06:37:21 AM »

 

Ceruleanblue,

Glad you got through MC.

What did the T tell you to work on?

Any discussion about separating the days of DBT and MC?

FF
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2015, 07:38:36 AM »

I think it's really positive you are drawing boundries on his daughter stuff. It sounds like the lady is theoretically a grown up with her own child ( if I recall correctly) and she doesn't actually need or want mothering from you.

With your own son, your husband has repeatedly proved hostile to being  much of anything. Your son is truly still a child and he needs his mom. Maybe I am reacting a bit to your story. My step dad was really ugly to me, trying to force separation between my mom and myself. It was scary and horrible, deeply painful. They married when I was 6.

Your son really needs you (you need him too!) and drawing this boundry and telling your husband to back off and respect your rights as a parent will also let the man know that more boundries are coming. He may not like that, but for you, you can take back your life and start to feel safer and less resentful. 
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2015, 07:15:09 PM »

Yes, I am trying to enact more boundaries, and spend more time with my son. It's harder because we don't live together now, thanks to BPDh, but I'm trying. I spend lots of time with my daughter who is 19 and lives with us. He's always been super great with her, yet awful to my son. BPDh "targets" certain people.

I never, ever tried to "mother" any of BPDh's kids. All except his son, who was 16 or 17 when we met, were grown. It's actually his son that has been least problematic. If his girls could act like the son, things would be great. All I wanted was to be able to get together occasionally, or be at the same family event, and not have a drama fest. I didn't even need to be close to them, although that would have been okay, but what I got instead were highly hostile, PD acting "adults" who act like mean junior high girls with the bullying, and lies.

All this requires strong boundaries, and I'm really working on that.

I haven't mentioned doing separate days for DBT and MC yet, but I think I will this week, and see how BPDh reacts to the mention of it.
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2015, 07:27:50 PM »

 

What does the T from MC have you working on.

The hubby is supposed to woo you... .

And you are supposed to... ?

FF
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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2015, 11:48:34 PM »

Yeah, husband is supposed to "woo me", is if that's going to happen. It's nice being able to be honest here, because with BPDh I'm always having to be the upbeat, positive person. He's so negative. I just know though that the idea of wooing is way, way too much like being nice or it will make him feel controlled.

I guess I'm supposed to work on building positive experiences. The last two weeks our T has said this, and I repeated it to BPDh several times over the week, but it goes right over his head. I actually said just that to our T, that that concept goes over BPDh's head. Something always seems to ruin what could be a positive experience or day, most often it's his negative mood, or he'll say something totally crappy and hurtful to me, and expect me to just be fine with it.

Tonight he said something totally inappropriate, so I left and went shopping until he went to bed. I guess he was still awake when I got home, because he called me in to ask where I'd been(he's suddenly suspicious of me), and he acted disappointed that either a) I again wasn't sharing his bed, or b) that I wasn't trying to engage in conversation, so he just said "I guess good night then".

I'm trying to walk away when he has his moods. It sure means I spend a lot of alone time though. We don't spend much time together lately due to this.
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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2015, 05:12:51 AM »

Excerpt
I guess I'm supposed to work on building positive experiences

Is this dependent on him?

Or rather, can you work on building positive experiences in a way that does not depend on him?
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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2015, 06:19:30 AM »

Excerpt
I guess I'm supposed to work on building positive experiences

Is this dependent on him?

Or rather, can you work on building positive experiences in a way that does not depend on him?

Exactly!  When I read this... .I thought your MC was spot on about the best way to go about "living life with a pwBPD traits.

To make a conscious effort to build a life that you enjoy... .leave a spot in that life for the pwBPD... .but regardless of the participation of the pwBPD... .you go and enjoy your day... .your week.

Listen... .this is tough stuff... .you have been horribly mistreated and you are the "non"... the one that has the emotional capacity to show leadership and take the r/s out of the funk that it has been in.

A lot of leadership is attitude... .the way you think and talk about your task... .sets the stage for how you approach it.

So... .how would you feel... .or think your husband was "going about" wooing you if you heard him say "I guess I'm supposed to woo her or something... ."?

Hang in there... .looking forward to hearing about your plan for your positive experience today.

FF


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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2015, 04:16:20 PM »

I think if I heard him say that, it would feel like he viewed it as a chore or task. I'd rather he just do it! He really does not seem to get the concept though, and MC gave him no concrete ideas, so I'm sure BPDh is lost. Even if he really wanted to(which I'm sure he doesn't), it just doesn't come naturally with his mate. It's weird, but he treats his kids, and friends like mates, and he treats his mate(currently me) as a target. I'm sure it used to be the same with his ex. They were both PD though, so no wonder his kids are a hot mess. I have compassion, but I'm done being scapegoat.

I do just make my own experiences, and go and do things I enjoy. The issue isn't that I can't do that, the issue is that I don't always want to do everything alone. My take on what the MC told us was to build positive experiences TOGETHER.

My BPDh has a huge problem with TOGETHER, and what together means. I feel way more like I'm only an object, something to be taken out and used as HE wants it. It's just strange. My feelings and needs(you know, those things he refuses to attempt to meet) just seem like a burden to him. He constantly feels blamed, but he's always the first to actually blame. He wouldn't know an "I" statement if it hit him in the face! You'd think he'd catch on by how often I use them, but nope.

It seems like he is over connected to others, but he chooses to have to real connection to me. He leaves me in the dark about things. I'm last to know plans that involve me, and then I'm rushing to cook or get ready. I long for some sort of connection, but he deliberately with holds.

I can and AM making a life created by me, doing things I enjoy, but it still stinks. I'd have never have married him if I'd known this was how it was going to be. I really don't think all pwBPD are this extremely disconnected. I just think this is where he falls on the spectrum, and how he copes. It's his "normal" or baseline, but it still stinks. I could deal with other traits far easier than this one.

Today I went thrift shopping with my daughter, and maybe we'll take a walk tonight, her and I. If BPDh wants to join, he can, but I'm done planning evenings I think he will enjoy. I spent way too much time doing that, and he was still miserable, and it was a waste of my time and effort.
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2015, 04:58:17 PM »

I spent way too much time doing that, and he was still miserable, and it was a waste of my time and effort.

Focus more on what he does... .less on if he enjoys it... .

So... if you plan something and he goes... .then... that is not a waste of your time and effort.

Now... if him being miserable means he is abusive... that is handle with a boundary... .but I'm not getting that vibe from you

FF
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2015, 05:05:30 PM »

Oh,  he can be very verbally abusive, but that is less of an issue now than it used to be. What I mean is that his baseline seems to be rather negative, and he always seems sort of discontent. Sort of like a grumpy baby when they need a nap. Or when you have a headache and are quicker to snap at someone. That sort of seems to be his "normal". He always seems to need stimulation and "fun" to be happy, but he doesn't even seem to be very happy then.

I think you are right. I just need to let him own or have his own feelings, and ME not worry about it so much. I certainly can't change it, only HE can do that. I've tried to tell him that the right mindset can really help, that our brains believe what we tell it if we tell it enough. Good in/good out sort of thing, and I've heard him listen to others who say that, but he just seems to enjoy being grumpy. He's sort of like Oscar the Grouch. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

What's funny though is that he appears totally different with others like his kids or friends. It's almost like that's the only time he's truly happy, or he just fakes it with them. And there always seems to be a letdown after being with them, where he strikes out at me.

I'm going to take your advice, and give myself the freedom to not worry about his negative moods. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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