uBPDw gone for a year. Where next?

[Dobzhansky]

Hello -

uBPDw flew the coop 3000 miles to be nearer parents.  She left 3 daughters behind (2 teens still at home).  Typical BPD behaviors before, during, and after departure.  Past 4 months have been really good.  Our relationship is best it has ever been (no exaggeration).

uBPDw and I text daily.  I wish her good morning, a nice evening, and sweet dreams.  Every day.

We talk by phone weekly.  On phone, conversation is kept light, positive and supportive.  We have tried to talk about heavy things, but these conversations quickly devolve in to rages or near-rages with me trying to backpedal furiously.

Issues:

1)  Sell or not commonly owned house.  Payments much less than local rent.  Also girls feel safer w minimal change.  Having uBPDw out of housing considerations here is good as an isolation technique.

2)  Visiting her (and inlaws) at her location.  She is manipulative & uses F.O.G. to get girls to feel badly for their mom being alone and missing them.  They are offered scenarios and $$ incentives (by both mom and MIL) to move to where mom is.  Girls know & understand F.O.G.

3)  Do I join her according to pre-departure plan?  We had idea of she and I moving to where she is now after retirement in 2017 and daughters all 18+.  Before I understood BPD, I had idea of seeing where we were in relationship and deciding then.  I have since made clear I will _not_ be signing another mortgage with her until we receive a good deal of counseling.  Understanding about BPD gives me benchmarks and reasonable expectations. I realize this is likely FAR TOO DISTANT to worry about.  The gap needing to be made up here seems huge and makes me question decision to stay - but only just.  Still committed to staying.

uBPDw presumably getting emotional needs supplied by MIL and siblings, all of whom live in 2 mile radius.  uBPDw has said both "No divorce - I would feel like a failure" and "The only reason I haven't left you is I would lose access to the girls."

So now what?  I am curious but I have also discussed w pastor and therapist, too.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[vortex of confusion]

Ouch, that sounds like a horrible position to be in right now.   

What do YOU want to do? It sounds like you want to stick to the original plan of waiting until all of the kids are 18. Do you think it is possible to stick with that plan? Do the kids want to move and be around your wife's family or do they want to stay where they are? How long have you and the kids lived in your current location?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to stay. I find that admirable. However, it might be helpful to look at some things from a more practical stand point. How long do you think that the two of you can realistically maintain this arrangement?

[Dobzhansky]

I want to stay - but as I learn more about BPD, I recognize more behaviors I began to witness (but thought was normal) when we first started dating 30 years ago.  It wasn't until she left and we got help I realized what we shared together and as a family "might not be normal".  Being a leader and a 'stander' is great - but am I banging my head against the brick wall?  I am 48.  I am not interested in another relationship and find that repulsive at this point.  Will I wake up at 68 with the same problems and stuck at the same place?

Kids do NOT want to move.  They do not trust her or her family to respect emotional boundaries.  Wife commonly says that "Sarcasm is what I was raised on!"  Biggest issue keeping us from moving forward (I think) is trying to balance how to protect girls from wife's "whatever" if wife does not get what she wants (visit from girls, house sold, removing what little is left of "her things" from the house to move where she is), and either full financial disclosure (she has a private account I cannot see while she can see and access all of our $$$) or financial division - but not legal separation. 

Kids and I have lived where we are for most of their lives.  I find it easy to pinpoint the effects of a BPD mother in their emotional makeup and am keen to limit further trauma and aid healing as I can.

What do I need to be thinking about, given above and previously mentioned issues - or am I missing something?  Or do I worry too much?  I fear the possibility she will throw us to the wolves if she sees us as abandoning her in any way.  She is estranged from eldest daughter and other two are not far behind.  I am unaware of how she truly feels about me.  I have heard it all from I am amazing and wonderful to I am the worst person to have ever walked the earth (splitting).

If she throws us to the wolves we could be forced to sell and find ourselves neck deep in legal challenges. 

I have known this woman and loved her deeply for 30 years.  I cannot fathom not having her in my life, or the life of my kids (though that is up to them).

[formflier]

Will I wake up at 68 with the same problems and stuck at the same place?

Think about how you want to wake up at 68... .who you want to be... .and the r/s you want to have with your children.  Focus on that.  Make decisions based on that...   Leave door open for your wife to join... .she will do... .what she will do. 

Focus on what you can control.

Kids do NOT want to move.  They do not trust her or her family to respect emotional boundaries.

I think you have your answer... .

how to protect girls from wife's "whatever" if wife does not get what she wants 

Rather than focusing on protecting the girls from this... .can you focus on being best parent you can? It sounds like the kids see the difference.  And it seems like the oldest daughter (estrangement) has "voted" for who she does and doesn't want to be associated with.

What is the benefit of "protecting" them from their mom?

aid healing as I can.

Probably best to focus on this.  What has this looked like up until this point?

  I fear the possibility she will throw us to the wolves if she sees us as abandoning her in any way.  

What does throwing to the wolves look like?  Trying to wrap my head around what she can "do" to you guys... .

If she throws us to the wolves we could be forced to sell and find ourselves neck deep in legal challenges. 

How so?  Are you able to pay the mortgage without money from her?  Are you financiall dependent on her in any way?

I have known this woman and loved her deeply for 30 years.  I cannot fathom not having her in my life, or the life of my kids (though that is up to them).

That's a long time... .       

My heart goes out to you.  I also want to let you know that bpdfamily can be part of a support system that gets you to a better place.  We can help you define what a better place looks like...

FF

[formflier]

uBPDw flew the coop 3000 miles to be nearer parents. 

What is her version of this?

uBPDw and I text daily.  I wish her good morning, a nice evening, and sweet dreams.  Every day.

Does she respond? 

  me trying to backpedal furiously.

We should look at this.  I'm curious why you backpedal?

1)  Sell or not commonly owned house.  Payments much less than local rent.  Also girls feel safer w minimal change.  Having uBPDw out of housing considerations here is good as an isolation technique.

I don't understand the bolded part.  Can you explain a bit more.

2)  Visiting her (and inlaws) at her location.  She is manipulative & uses F.O.G. to get girls to feel badly for their mom being alone and missing them.  They are offered scenarios and $$ incentives (by both mom and MIL) to move to where mom is.  Girls know & understand F.O.G.

Doe she come back and visit?  They understand FOG... .but does it "work" on them?

3)   I have since made clear I will _not_ be signing another mortgage 

Good... it's been made clear... .I wouldn't focus on this any further.  But I would be clear in your mind that boundaries are good with your wife.

uBPDw presumably getting emotional needs supplied by MIL and siblings

How are you getting your emotional needs met?

So now what?  I am curious but I have also discussed w pastor and therapist, too.

What do they have to say? 

[Dobzhansky]

I'm not really sure of her version.  We have access to a good retirement after 20 yrs of work.  The idea was to retire, draw full retirement, while working jobs that maybe weren't as demanding as current careers.  retirement income might have gone so  far as to make a house payment and medical insurance every month.  She has walked away from this and now must wait until 60 yrs old to draw retirement funds.  Basically left a few $100 thousand on the table.

Texting - she does respond, but there is no "emotion" - assuming this is due to BPD presenting challenges to engaging on an emotional level. 

Backpedaling - this happens if I fail to preface statements that might be misconstrued with "Please understand this in the best way possible" or "With the respect and love with which it is intended". 

Housing - she seems to take power and entitlement from the fact that she owns 1/2 the house.  It is used as a threat when she gets tired or frustrated:  "Just sell the house and give me my half of the money and we can go and live our lives"  When said this is done at the top of her lungs w profanity.  The last time she said this I looked at her and said : "You know, just because you are tired and frustrated is no reason to tear the family apart." and left the bedroom.  I returned after she was asleep.  The next day - our wedding anniv. - she said "Stay in the house until 2017 when our youngest graduates."  If we sold and I rented or bought under my name alone, we could remove her from the housing arrangement if needed instead of it becoming a tug-of-war.  We could say "no" and have it mean something stronger than if it were a battle of wills at home  Climate here is not friendly - long winter months necessitate a larger living space for 3 people and one 70 lb dog

She has been back 2X.  Once last Sept. and again for Thanksgiving.  She spent the first days anxious and stand-offish, only to blossom in to the picture of love and concern for the last 36 hours before departing.  She has not been back since, nor does she plan to.  We have declined a visit to her for safety/trauma issues but have offered her to come here.  She said no.  We visited her last Christmas - same story.

Emotional needs - Not really.  I spend time w my daughters and with my dog.  We go to church and attend functions there.  We have been to visit some family and friends in neighboring towns.

Therapist says to "keep on truckin'"  That the girls and I are in our own little "boat on the seas of life" and that none of this is our fault.  My wife is ill and sees the world through the illness.  Mom has jumped overboard and swum to shore.

Pastor is helping me to keep within the bounds allowed by my faith, but also to stay safe.  Agree to nothing and limit contact.  Next step is to make sure we both get counseling before a reunion of any permanence happens.   He says to trust completely with regard to finances (they are still common but wife has own private account I cannot see) and trust in God

[formflier]

I'm not really sure of her version.  

So... .she doesn't have an explanation for why she moved away?

FF

[Dobzhansky]

We have been waiting - I suggested during a text session she was really angry when she left.  She corrected me and said instead she was sad.  She wanted to "stop doing mommy things and do auntie things instead".  Also "you girls are done and do not need me".

[formflier]

 

Yeah... .probably a good idea not to suggest peoples emotions to them... .if curious... .ask... .they may... or may not tell you.

There is HUGE risk of invalidation here (read about it in lessons if you don't understand it)... .invalidation is bad for regular people... .and devastating for pwBPD.

OK... so... .let me wrap my head around this. 

Your wife has been gone for 1 year... .during this time her explanation is that she wants to be an "aunt" and not a "mom"


She believes that you don't need her... .and that the girls are "done" (I'm assuming she means grown and no longer requiring a mom)

So... is the above correct?

Just to be clear... .in 1 year... .that is all the explanation she has offered?

Has she offered her vision for the future?

FF

[Dobzhansky]

My wife (apparently) did feel as though she were not needed.  She had withdrawn to a large degree and allowed no one to approach or engage other than in the most superficial of circumstances.  When arriving home she would retreat almost immediately to bed to watch TV and read the paper.  Early to bed.  I was left to manage most meals, supervise homework, and help w dishes.  We were at a loss with what to do.  I did as much as I could to help smooth things over - and made sure I took time to say thank you for kindnesses.  Daughters were given help by her for parties, clothing purchases, and school spirit dress-ups among other things.  Also for large projects such as posters and presentations.  House decorations for holidays and holiday meals were amazing!

I am not tooting the horn (I hope) but I tried to show my appreciation for her going to work, helping around the house, etc by Sunday b-fast in bed, and carving out sacred times for family and also just for she and I.  She became uncomfortable about 2 yrs ago with any kind of intimacy - from hand holding to the other extreme.

When she would allow the girls to approach, they would gather around her place in the bed and share their day, ask questions and advice, and get hugs and kisses.  Occasionally something would be done wrong or a difficult question asked then I had to bolt upstairs to try to smooth things again.

We have seen her on Prozac intermittently for the past MANY years.  A strong recurrence of symptoms every so often would prompt my asking of she were still on the meds to which the invariable reply was "No I let the prescription lapse".  The only reason I am on FamilyBPD is that the symptoms and the anecdotal stories fit SO WELL.

VISION OF THE FUTURE - Her departure was preceded by months of surreptitious job-and-apartment hunting AND asking colleagues we had in common for letters of recommendation.  When her plans came to light by mistake, she struggled for an explanation.  I asked if it weren't just a school district calling using an application submitted 2 years before (during the last "Im leaving" crisis)  "YES!  Thats it!"  she said.  It only later became clear about the "behind the back" methods used.

In the high tension atmosphere in the few weeks before she left, I asked as politely and calmly as I could:  ":)o you want us to follow you where you are going?"  "HELL NO!"  We attended counseling sessions in the weeks prior during which she was asked pointedly "Are you thinking of leaving the marriage?"  to which she replied "Not anymore... ."

POINT IS - it has been SO difficult and SO exhausting and SO fear-ridden to determine what she might want, or not.  We had originally planned to retire together.  She has also explained the only reason she had not yet left is she would lose access to the girls.  Swing, swing, swing!

She works in small steps (which is probably best).  She recently switched jobs where she is to a different town closer to parents.  I asked where she would live and she said that she would go to the bank and prequal for a house - which didn't happen due to the mortgage here (I guess).  She never shared wether she did this or not.  Now she is in a different rental arrangement in the same block where her 3 brothers have homes - all of whom are 2 miles from the parents house.  There was no talk of my helping to choose a house in which I might live.

So, all this therapeutic writing aside, I have no idea of her vision and she does not discuss the future.  I am reluctant to press lest the result is "A future without you!" and I get served with papers.

[formflier]

In the high tension atmosphere in the few weeks before she left, I asked as politely and calmly as I could:  ":)o you want us to follow you where you are going?"  "HELL NO!"  We attended counseling sessions in the weeks prior during which she was asked pointedly "Are you thinking of leaving the marriage?"  to which she replied "Not anymore... ."

So... .listen... .pwBPD have an odd way of communicating... .many times the advice is to focus on what they do and let that be their communication... .

So... if they are saying they hate you... .but seem to be drawing nearer... .the words don't match the actions... .so... .try to validate the words and emotions... .and pay attention to the actions.

She was asked pointed questions... .and it appears that she did not provide any useful answers to the questions.

She has been at this for a year... .and my understanding is there are no hints of it ending

So... .what do her actions tell you?

 

FF