Interfamily Relations - HOW?

[Dobzhansky]

uPBDw gone from home 1 year living 3000 miles away.  Together 29 years.  Three daughters w 2 teens still home.  Communication mostly civil to nonexistent.  Wife and I text daily.  Talk "nuts & bolts" by phone 1 x / wk w/o any "gushy" stuff.  Pure business.  Communication w daughters by text only maybe 1 sentence per week if that.

PROBLEM:  All 3 daughters keep mom at arms length due to trust & anger issues.  Eldest has changed pending wedding up 6 months and south to Mexico.  Daughter consulted me months ago w several ideas.  We weighed individual pros and cons but it came down to ":)o what makes you happy.  Its your day."  uBPDw has just found out the final decision from daughter (I was notified afterwards) and wrote me a quick email listing interrogative questions about what I knew, when, how long... .?  Felt like I was on trial.

ISSUE:  Tried to use S.E.T. method to answer.  Still sinking feeling in gut, pounding heart and sick stomach that comes w adrenaline rush.  Is there any way to help this other than Xanax?

Said to uBPDw before her departure I was not part of her relationship w her daughters.  That would be her responsibility.  Presumably, this means putting forth the effort to address breakdowns in communication.  I realize dysfunction here is due to BPD.  Is this a path to realizing help is needed?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[vortex of confusion]

When somebody tries to question you about your relationship with somebody else, you don't have to answer.

I have been put in the position to answer questions like that and nothing good came from it.

What do you mean when you say "Is this a path to realizing help is needed?" I am not sure what you are referencing.

[Dobzhansky]

Help needed = uBPDw realizing relationships w daughters broken -->>  Why?

Wife returns with "I guess they will understand when they are older"

[formflier]

 

I recommend you take yourself out of the role of evaluating/fixing/ the relationship of your wife to others.

VOC is spot on... .no answer is needed.

It's been a while since I've typed out my "energy speech".

pwBPD tend to suck energy out of a r/s and people... .  We each only have a certain amount of energy to spend... then we are exhausted.  I'm not saying don't send any energy/effort to pwBPD... .but with a very wise mind... .calm mind... .informed by the lessons... .we need to make sure we are sending appropriate energy out... .and then direct the rest elsewhere.

Don't worry if pwBPD like this or not.

My gut tells me you should focus less on wife... .much more on daughters.

Also... .if wife feels you are no longer reaching out... chasing... pursuing... .it is likely she may start trying to grow closer (no guarantee... .but in many cases it works this way... )

FF

[Dobzhansky]

OUTSTANDING!  Good ideas.  Much appreciated.

a relationship takes 2 + God after all.  If it doesn't survive my pulling back from 85% to 45% (or less) then maybe it is better off?

[vortex of confusion]

Help needed = uBPDw realizing relationships w daughters broken -->>  Why?

Wife returns with "I guess they will understand when they are older"

It is unlikely that wife will realize that the relationships with her daughters is broken. If she does realize it, it is quite possible that she will see it as their fault or your fault.

It sounds like she is blaming the broken relationship on their inability to understand due to age. I don't think age has anything to do with it. Their mother essentially rejected them by leaving like she did. Rejection at any age is difficult to understand.

[formflier]

a relationship takes 2 + God after all.  

Dobzhansky,

Can I ask about your faith?  No issues if you want to keep that private... .but I've noticed several references you have made.  For many people of faith... .their beliefs are a huge part of how they conduct a r/s. 

This is a safe place to discuss that.  I'm a conservative Christian guy and when appropriate I bring that up to place issues in context in my r/s.

One way that I have approached the BPD issues in my r/s "with God" is that I am the one that will stand and be judged one day and I am the only one that can accept Jesus or not.  In other words, if my wife rejects this... .my remedy is limited to praying for her.  I will be judged according to my actions... .not hers.

I'll also say that there is a childlike quality to a lot of what pwBPD do.  God is very clear about loving and caring for the children.  I trust in him that he will do this for the pwBPD in my life.

Just my views... .others may see it different... .and that's OK.

FF

[Dobzhansky]

I am Roman Catholic - divorce is not an option... .  not that I would consider it anyway.

It makes it difficult, however, when the partner has asked for divorce several times.  I find myself spending much energy and effort in anticipating the next blowout/request for a divorce.  Current difficulty is that she wants us to fly to her for Christmas when my girls do not want to go - either due to fear and unease about seeing mom and in-laws OR punishing mom by withholding their attention.  Wife could come here (it would be cheaper), but I worry if I plant my feet and stand up for girls and myself it could precipitate an "I WANT A DIVORCE" thing.  I understand pwBPD arent likely to do this out of fear of abandonment... .but she is having her emotional needs met (I guess) by her mom / my MIL.

Its odd now that I understand what I do about pwBPD.  I can look back over our history together and much is explained. 

[vortex of confusion]

I am Roman Catholic - divorce is not an option... .  not that I would consider it anyway.

Is your wife Roman Catholic too? What about her family? Are they Catholic too?

[formflier]

I am Roman Catholic - divorce is not an option... .  not that I would consider it anyway.

I am somewhat familiar... .but what I would think would be good for you to do is to ask your priest how the church would view YOU... .if your wife divorces you.

Also... .I would ask that you talk to a lawyer and verify the laws in your state.  That if one party wants a divorce... files... .and pushes for it... .will they get it.  

Ask what that will look like for you...

It makes it difficult, however, when the partner has asked for divorce several times. 

Ok... .pwBPD do this quite often.  I'm guessing my wife is certainly over 50 times of asking... .threatening... . Most likely the number is far higher if I count the times the "inferred" that we were done.  

I have had "lawyers" call my house to return her phone calls... and have had printouts of family law firms "accidentally" left in the printer.

A lot of this was before I knew about this website and had ever heard about BPD.  

Once I stop reacting... .and just ignored the threats (validated if possible)... .they got less and less.

I'm thinking it's been 3-4 weeks since I've heard the D word... .before that... .maybe couple months.  

I tell this story... .to let you know this.  If your wife really wants a divorce... .she will get one.  Many pwBPD "feel" like they want a divorce... .but are too afraid to "act" on it.  So... part of this is to try to bully the "non" into filing... .that way the pwBPD maintains victim status since someone else is doing it to them.

I find myself spending much energy and effort in anticipating the next blowout/request for a divorce. 

Remember my talk about energy management... .I think it was in a different post to you.  Your energy put toward this effort is going down a black hole... .  Trust me... .

Current difficulty is that she wants us to fly to her for Christmas when my girls do not want to go - either due to fear and unease about seeing mom and in-laws OR punishing mom by withholding their attention. 

Curious why you didn't post about what you want.  

Christmas is a long time off... .I would discuss this with your girls... and hold off making any decisions.

I think after a couple of months of work here at bpdfamily... .you will have a better idea of how to handle the BPD aspect of this.

Wife could come here (it would be cheaper), but I worry if I plant my feet and stand up for girls and myself it could precipitate an "I WANT A DIVORCE" thing. 

Do you understand what FOG is?  What does that stand for?  How does it apply to what I quoted above.

I understand pwBPD arent likely to do this out of fear of abandonment... .but she is having her emotional needs met (I guess) by her mom / my MIL.

Hey... .you have said this a few times... .that she is getting her emotional needs met by someone else... .her family.  

What does that mean... ."emotional needs" mean.

Just want to make sure I'm following  before I comment.

Its odd now that I understand what I do about pwBPD.  I can look back over our history together and much is explained. 

Yeah... .I understand this feeling.  To read books and read this site... .and see that others are going through what I am dealing with... .it's odd... .it's empowering to know it can be overcome... .I can't believe I was 43 or so years old when I first heard of this or these issues.

I'm glad you found us... .I think we can help you get in a better place pretty soon.

FF

[Dobzhansky]

Yep!

My family and her family.  We met at Gonzaga U in Spokane.  We still practice and attend Mass weekly.  I help teach the faith to up-and-comings, and my daughter is trying to discern a call from God.

When we last visited her family last Christmas, I witnessed members of her family sitting around the living room sharing concerns and complaining about how long special services, such as baptism or confirmation, can make the overall service run.  ":)on't they know people have lives and things they need to get done?"  Yikes!

[formflier]

 

Does your wife submit to the authority of the church?

FF

[vortex of confusion]

What kind of marriage prep did you have to do to get married? My husband is Roman Catholic and we got married in the church.

The reason that I ask is because my husband and I went to Engaged Encounter. We both saved all of our materials from it and at different times during our marriage have pulled out the worksheets and notebooks and have sat down together and have gone through the exercises again.

Also, I wonder if something like www.retrouvaille.org/ is something that your wife might consider.

It is awesome about your daughter trying to discern a call from God. My husband was a monk for two years (well before we met).

One thing that I have learned is that you can't make somebody else live their faith. I went through RCIA and try to connect with my husband through his faith. It didn't work. I used to try to use his faith and the teachings of the Catholic Church to get him step up, be different, whatever. It didn't work. All you can do is live YOUR faith.

I wonder how your wife would take it if you responded to her bringing up divorce by correcting her and saying that it wouldn't be a divorce. It would have to be an annulment. Have you looked into what it would take to get an annulment? That is something that you might discuss with your priest.

[Dobzhansky]

What kind of marriage prep did you have to do to get married? My husband is Roman Catholic and we got married in the church.

The proper preparation, though I'm told it was too short.  Many have said standard prep is too short if the Church values the marriage vocation as equally important to that of a priest.  During the prep our priest looked my wife-to-be in the eye and told her she could not love anyone before she loved herself.

I have thought much about Retrouvaille.  I had suggested every so often before I gave up altogether.  She always refused the idea as being "hippy-drippy" and she wouldn't go near it.  Although I couldn't articulate it then, I have always felt marriage to be a complete gift of "the self to the other".  As I learn now about co-dependency and BPD I see how our relationship has developed over the years.

My personal faith is odd in that I was confirmed in the crib.  Its nice because I was required to engage mindfully and  completed RCIA for fun in college.  Maybe I have had a deeper faith than some as a result.

[vortex of confusion]

I have thought much about Retrouvaille.  I had suggested every so often before I gave up altogether.  She always refused the idea as being "hippy-drippy" and she wouldn't go near it.  Although I couldn't articulate it then, I have always felt marriage to be a complete gift of "the self to the other".  As I learn now about co-dependency and BPD I see how our relationship has developed over the years.

Would she take that suggestion better if it came from a priest or somebody else?

I have struggled with the same idea about marriage being a gift of self to the other.  I have also read a lot about spouses submitting to one another. It can be very confusing because the church teaches the idea of two becoming one. On the forums, that level of commitment seems to be seen as enmeshment, lack of differentiation, and loss of self. How does one maintain that level of commitment without the enmeshment and negative aspects? I have wrestled with those ideas as I have read and studied over the years. I feel like I have lived my side of things and I continue to try to live my side of things. What my husband does is outside of what I can control or influence. That is a hard pill to swallow at times.

My personal faith is odd in that I was confirmed in the crib.  Its nice because I was required to engage mindfully and  completed RCIA for fun in college.  Maybe I have had a deeper faith than some as a result.

Hmmm. . .I think my husband could easily say the same thing. I think one of the things that happens with somebody with BPD traits is that they fail to internalize this stuff. They follow the rules but are unable to truly internalize it. At least that is my observation of things. My husband still prays the office of the hours 3 times a day. He appears to take it seriously but his actions do not bear that out. I have often wondered how somebody could appear to have such a deep faith yet not show it in his actions. I think it comes down to whether or not they are able to internalize those teachings.

[formflier]

 

Here is the thing... .sometimes with pwBPD... ."suggestions" aren't a good idea. 

Many times scheduling and going is the key.  They still may not go... .but at that point you have communicated in strongest possible terms you are ready to work on marriage.

Hey... I'll ask again.  Does your wife submit to authority of Church?

FF

[vortex of confusion]

Hey... I'll ask again.  Does your wife submit to authority of Church?

I don't know that there is an easy answer to that question. I am thinking about MY situation. For all practical purposes, my husband did, at one point, submit to the authority of the church. I tried to use that as leverage to get what I want at one point in time. The bottom line is that whether or not he submitted to the church was irrelevant as it was a situation where his actions and his words didn't really align. Trying to use that or focus on that, made matters worse for me. Figured I would throw that out there. . .

[formflier]

 

Yep... I agree... .for YOU... .to use it.  But for the Church... that is a different matter.

Different religions do "church discipline" differently.  The goal is normally to "reconcile" the person with the teachings... .vice punishment.

But... .VOC has a HUGE point... .a "non" trying to convince someone that they are going against the church... is probably not going to work.

In a way... .it is a bit like going to T.  Step 1... .start going to see the priest.  Step 2... at some point start listening/paying attention...   Step 3... change behavior... .Step 4... possibly change heart.

At any point... .people can flake out and run away... .or decided not to proceed forward with another step.

In a r/s where faith/religion is a big deal... .and it seems to be (or was) in this r/s.  That is a big thing to figure out.  Is it there (or still there).

FF