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Author Topic: Feeling let down today... I saw this coming... it still hurts  (Read 384 times)
formflier
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« on: July 26, 2015, 02:50:39 PM »



So... .our summer compromise... .one of many... .that have come and been broken... .was that D2 and D4 will be back tonight... and starting tomorrow I have my family together for 3 weeks.

Defined as wife and all kids together to do things... .and tell other people to stay away so that we can make memories of us. 

Well... .I asked today what time they were getting back today... .and my wife starts melting down... .in front of the kids and me. 

I'll admit... .I tossed many of the rules to the wind... .most of the time I sat there and watched the show.  Honestly... .I'm not sure what my motivation was/is... .because there is no shock that she doesn't follow through.

I'll make not attempt to give a blow by blow... .but it was a pretty good dysreg... focused on me and my "inflexibility"... .

In front of my kids she said I was acting like a two year old (projection), didn't value her parents... .blah blah blah... .some name calling as well.

Why couldn't I "just" be ok with a couple of days.

I agreed... .I made another compromise.  I announced I was happy to demonstrate flexibility and I asked if she would agree as her part of the compromise to have future discussions without name calling, without belittling my feelings and focus on the here and now (there was some discussion on her part of 20 years ago this happened... so today I get to... .)

She is sobbing and sniffling... .she agrees to it.  Kids eyes are wide open watching this... .listening to the drama coming from her.

She hugs me says she loves me... .I gave a pretty weak hug back and went on about my day.

I need to figure out a future boundary on control of the kids for some part of the summer. 

Sadly... .if it is not enforced by a court... .I'm not sure it is worth putting any effort into.

The basic issue is that if kids get into a vehicle with her parents... .they will be back plus minus a week or so... .usually late... .of when they say they will.  That's who they are.  Everyone knows it... .

I feel stuck... .because if I don't get to spend time with my family... .I'm not sure what the point is... .

It's like I have a bunch of individual relationships... .but there is no group.

The amount of conflict this summer was waay down from any previous years... .this is good.

The amount of time I got to spend with my kids was waaay down as well... .that is not good

If you asked me right now... .(lets pretend it is at the start of the summer and we are making plans) if I would repeat this summer... .or separate/divorce and legally "control" half the summer... .and she can have her half... . 

Well... I hate to say it... .I'd take the separation with hopes that she comes around... .if it ends up in divorce... .I believe I will get more time with my kids.

That sucks... .       :'( :'(

Not really triggered right now... .I would say slightly despondent... .it's hard to describe... .

FF
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GaGrl
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2015, 06:36:18 PM »

What position are you in re: your in-law's? I would just get in the car and retrieve the children.  "We weren't in agreement on the pick-up date. Thanks for having them. I really appreciate your help. Let's go,kids!"

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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2015, 07:58:11 PM »

FF,

Sorry!  I remember reading how important having time carved out for everyone together is for you.  I remember because this "all together" concept is what pained me in my r/s and was something I looked forward to so much, therefore I related to this.  It sucks!

Maybe this is naive of me... .by not knowing you as well as others... .

However, do you think it could be helpful in the future... .

Plan something huge for the family the day they are due back?

Some really big/ can't back out of commitment thing?

Such as... .

Paid plane tickets

Paid date specific tickets to an amusement park

Something of that nature?  (or something that she would have to be up against the whole family looking forward to it kinda thing?)

(I know you have a large family and not a billionaire, but I thought the concept can help)

Or insist that the family time is BEFORE she takes off and leaves?

(I think you tried this but had no influence... .I can't recall)

Is there a way to helpfully manipulate the situation?
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2015, 08:06:33 PM »

What position are you in re: your in-law's? I would just get in the car and retrieve the children.  "We weren't in agreement on the pick-up date. Thanks for having them. I really appreciate your help. Let's go,kids!"

9 hours away... .we are short on money... etc etc... .
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2015, 08:09:44 PM »

 

Really... .the only way that I can be happy with a compromise is for me to get mine first... .


That is based on history.

We've tried the "big thing" in the past... .not plane tickets... .but other big things... .and some of them missed things... .


Sigh...

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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2015, 10:43:31 PM »

So... .our summer compromise... .one of many... .that have come and been broken... .was that D2 and D4 will be back tonight... and starting tomorrow I have my family together for 3 weeks.

A couple of questions. . .

How long have the 2 and 4 year old been gone?

Excerpt
Well... .I asked today what time they were getting back today... .and my wife starts melting down... .in front of the kids and me. 

I am wondering if there is more to the story here. I am basing this on my own experiences with a messed up FOO. My parents are notorious for making agreements and telling me that they will do something at a certain time only to find reasons to extend the time or completely disregard what I had originally wanted. This seems to be even more prevalent with the kids. My mother seems to like to do stuff like that to wield power.

I am wondering if she melted down because she wanted them back too but was unable to get her parents to bring them back according to the scheduled plan. Now, she is caught between you and her parents so she sides with her parents and you are left in the dust. I know that there was a time early in my marriage when I did similar things with my husband. My parents would pressure me to spend almost every weekend with them. My sibling would show up at my house when we were out to dinner and would call and say that they would wait for us. It was difficult for me to navigate that stuff. If my husband tried to bring some of that up, I wouldn't know how to talk about it or deal with it and would get mad because I felt like I was in a no win situation.

Excerpt
I'll make not attempt to give a blow by blow... .but it was a pretty good dysreg... focused on me and my "inflexibility"... .

If your wife's FOO is anything like mine, she is probably repeating what she has heard her entire life. I don't want to try to shift the blame to her FOO. I see a lot of parallels between stuff with your wife and her FOO and stuff that I have had to overcome with my FOO. Anybody that doesn't bend to the will of the "family" is seen as inflexible or some other derogatory thing. My brother and I have talked a lot about stuff in our FOO. He and I talk because there are no words to describe some of this stuff. He has tried to explain some of this stuff to his wife and she doesn't get it. There is no way to get some of this stuff unless you have lived through it and understand the craziness that goes on in some families. Until you break out of the mindset, it is impossible to see how messed up it is.

My thinking is that some of this might be easier if you could find some compassion or even try to look at things from a different angle to help the two of you build bridges rather than burn them.

Excerpt
Why couldn't I "just" be ok with a couple of days.

Because, they are 2 and 4. . .in my opinion, kids that young shouldn't be separated from their parents for that long. Maybe I am weird but I have never been one that is okay with the kids staying with relatives for extended periods of time until the kids were much older. It isn't anything against the relatives. It has to do with my own personal beliefs about child rearing and the way families should operate. A lot of people don't understand my point of view and that is okay. I know that my mother has taken my views very personally over the years and I have had to stand strong against her. I wonder if your wife isn't getting the same kind of pressure from her parents and rather than question them, she questions you because it is much safer to question you and ask you to change and bend and compromise.

Excerpt
I need to figure out a future boundary on control of the kids for some part of the summer. 

This concerns me. How can you make a boundary about this without harming the kids?

Excerpt
The basic issue is that if kids get into a vehicle with her parents... .they will be back plus minus a week or so... .usually late... .of when they say they will.  That's who they are.  Everyone knows it... .

If this is how her parents are, why are you upset with your wife about them not being back? Her parents live 9 hours away so you and your wife are both subject to their whims if the kids are with them. Are you wanting your wife to stand up to them? What can your wife do about them not being back when they were supposed to be back? If one of you can't drive up there and get them, both of you are stuck. Is this something that you can use to build a bridge?

Excerpt
It's like I have a bunch of individual relationships... .but there is no group.

Why is the group so important? What is wrong with a bunch of individual relationships? Would it be possible to shift your focus to building the individual relationships without so much emphasis on creating a group identity/experience?

Excerpt
Not really triggered right now... .I would say slightly despondent... .it's hard to describe... .

   

Hang in there! Sounds like you may be at a real cross road.
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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 12:08:44 AM »

It seems like it should be really simple to have what you are wanting. Really frustrating and I would be (and have been) sad, too. I have a son I am missing and I really want time with him.

I don't have any advice, I just really feel for you. It's a sad and lonely place to be 
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 06:55:24 AM »

 

My wife's FOO... .

She is the "pick of the litter".  I had no idea of this when we were dating... .didn't really think much then about how her family was.  She is first to graduate college and on many things has bucked the "family line".

The amount of things given to her brother and sister... .compared to her... .well... it's shocking the disparity of it all.

In my opinion... .the reason that her brother and sister are so much worse off... .is that the parents keep giving... .and kids don't learn at all.  Wife has asked for things or more equal treatment and has been told many times no because it's already been given to others... and they "need" it more than we do.

So... .she will spend lots of time complaining and b$tching to me about how bad they are... .it's almost like or is like... .she is trying to grab affection from them by giving them so much access to kids.

Then... .she tosses in my face that I should love her foo... be happy... because of how much help they give us with the kids... .   

My wife's mom and sister are about exactly alike with regards to BPDish behaviors... (now that I know what I'm looking for)... my wife is definitely "BPD lite"

I've written a lot... and don't think that I've even scratched the surface.  I know what it's like when you say that you are your brother can talk about it... .because it can't be described.

I'm still really close to my ex brother in law.  He's probably the only other "outsider" that gets it... and he choose to divorce from it to assure his "right"s as a dad.  I live in different state... .and luckily haven't been faced with his choice.

So... .one quick example of how "they" screw up the kids.  My oldest nephew (17) actually went and got a job... and started to get "independent".  Was saving money for his own car... .I was hoping this would turn things around for him... .let him stand on his own.  So... grandparents swoop in... "sell" one of their cars to their son... ."take back in trade" the car they gave him a couple years ago... .and gave that car to my oldest nephew. 

I think his mom is keeping the kids money now to help with family bills or something.

Then... there are "complaints" and some "chest beating" (depending on audience) about how much they "have" to do for their grandkids.  Oh... .wait... that would be the grandkids of the sister (the favorite)... .we've had two kids start driving... and grandparents weren't involved. 


In my family... .I saved my money.  When I was 16 went to car lot an purchased something that I could buy with cash... .then used my money to insure and put gas in it.  If I didn't have money... .it didn't get driven.  I was not insulated from my choices...

Sigh... .more later.

FF
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2015, 06:57:22 AM »

 

They have been gone two weeks... .D2 and D4.

In my world... .I would be ok with maybe an overnight or two... .

FF
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2015, 08:19:41 AM »



She is the "pick of the litter". 

Same here! That is a really messed up place to be and it creates a lot of internal conflict and confusion.

Excerpt
In my opinion... .the reason that her brother and sister are so much worse off... .is that the parents keep giving... .and kids don't learn at all.  Wife has asked for things or more equal treatment and has been told many times no because it's already been given to others... and they "need" it more than we do.

Yep, I have heard the "need" line quite a bit. My mother can drop everything to babysit for my nieces kids or run them wherever they need to go. If I need a sitter, I will get a list of things that she is busy doing. In my opinion, it isn't because other people need it more. It is because other people kiss my mother's butt better. My mother has to be able to control you and your kids in order for her to actually be willing to help out.

Excerpt
So... .she will spend lots of time complaining and b$tching to me about how bad they are... .it's almost like or is like... .she is trying to grab affection from them by giving them so much access to kids.

That makes a lot of sense. The easiest way to get my mother's affection is to let her control stuff by giving her access to the kids or whatever else she wants. One of the reasons that I don't ever want to divorce my husband is that the kids and I are much safer with him than if I was a single mom. If I was a single mom, my mother would swoop in and try to save me and would try to take over and would eat me alive. I have seen her do it to my sisters and their kids. I want my kids to be protected from the BS more than I want my mother's affection.

If it tells you anything, my kids don't like to spend time with my parents. The oldest says that grandma's reality is broken. The other day, my parents stopped by and tried to get one of the kids to go with them. The kid said no even thought grandma tried to lay a rather heavy guilt trip on her. It took me saying, "It is okay if you don't want to say no." After grandma left, my daughter and I talked about how guilty grandma made her feel for not wanting to go.

I am sharing a lot of my story because I think might be helpful to show that it is soo difficult to break free from a FOO like this. It requires a boat load of self awareness. And it requires a boat load of strength. My brother and I have talked about how easy it is to get sucked back in. It took him being in prison for 7 years and going through cognitive intervention.

And, if her FOO is messed up like mine, doing something to go against them like saying no to time with the kids is a scary proposition. In my FOO, NO is not something that is allowed. If you say NO, then there will quite likely be some kind of retribution when you least expect it.

Excerpt
Then... .she tosses in my face that I should love her foo... be happy... because of how much help they give us with the kids... .   

I am going to take a wild guess here. . .I am guessing that she is probably repeating what she has been told repeatedly over the years. I have been put in the position where I was expected to feel grateful for the "HELP" that my parents have given us. In some cases, it was help that I didn't want or need. It was my parents putting their nose in where it didn't belong. I was expected to love them and fall all over myself and be happy because of the help they were giving me. If I had bought into their BS, I would be exactly like you describe your wife.

Excerpt
So... .one quick example of how "they" screw up the kids. 

I know how my FOO has screwed up the kids for my sisters. Some stuff was obvious but some stuff wasn't so obvious. The examples in my situation are numerous and range from super small stuff, like being super invalidating, to big stuff like pitting the parents against the kids. I am with my kids day in and day out and my mother will come over and tell me stuff about my kids like she knows them better than I do. My 11 year old has flat out said, "Mom, how come grandma only comes over when she needs something?" My kids see the inequity and it makes them soo mad. I know that things would be a lot more equal if I could just suck it up and let my parents do what they want. Since I stand firm and keep a distance and protect my kids from them, I get "punished" for it.

As long as your wife has them painted white, she will likely be subject to their whims. Before my husband became aware of his mother's BS, he put up with quite a bit. I feel like I had to try to find a way to get his mother into the gray area before I could get her out of our lives.
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 11:43:09 AM »

FF,

VOC has a lot of good points and truths in what she says, but I just wanted to say, from your side/your experience I understand how you are feeling. You are desperate to have your family together. You have worked tremendously hard, gone through separation and back, to have a family. It has to hurt to see agreements that you worked very hard to get, that mean a lot to you, be set aside ... .even if there are reasons with your wife's FOO, her methods of thinking, etc.

I am sorry that your wife hurt that vulnerable place in you. I hope you get your daughters home soon and that your whole family has the opportunity, even if but for a moment, to be an integrated unit. I know, when I took my S9 to Florida with me 2 years ago to see my parents, even though we had a great time, there was always a part of me a bit sad knowing that my S4 and my wife weren't there. I think, for me, it is the idea of family that I long for (maybe never quite had as a child), and the grief of not being able to create it as an adult stings.

Give yourself time to feel your grief. You are a good problem solver. You need time to feel your feelings, too. You deserve that. 
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