Im in the weeds pretty deep

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Im probably going to sound like a person with a disorder, I know I feel like I have one right now. Im very angry right now and im not sure if I should be or really how I should feel right now. My issues with my own insecurity's are really going haywire, I feel heartbroken but im to angry to be sad. I need to get back into counseling ASAP but I cant afford it at the moment so this forum is my only outlet.

I had my daughter( she is 28 months old) this weekend, I picked her up on Friday and she seemed like her normal self. On Saturday we had a busy day lined up at a lake/ water park, My sister and my 11 yr old son were with us as well. My daughter seemed distant to me during the day, normally she is glued to my side but she seemed to be able to break away from me a lot easier and at one point she went and sat on my sisters lap which she has never done. I thought that this was just my daughter being secure enough with me to finally break free from being glued to my side but when PA is going on its hard to tell.

Saturday was a long day, we left at 930 in the morning and didn't get back until 1130 at night and the only nap my daughter took was a hour long nap on my shoulder while I was in a lounge chair. she wasn't grumpy after that and I had to make her go to bed when we got home, she didn't fight me on that but she wasn't ready to go to sleep either. She woke up 2 times during the night crying which she hasn't done in months, When she does that nothing you say or do helps and after 20 or 30 seconds shes asleep again.

So today we just stayed home and watched videos and played inside, when it was time to go back to her moms I told her like I normally do she said no and then asked to paint her nails. When I told her we didn't have time today and that we would do that next time she was with me she through herself on the bed face first. I had to pick her up and leave, she wasn't crying but she was dead weight and limp and eventually was ok once we got going.

When I got to my exs house my daughter nearly jumped out of my arms to get to my ex, That's something she hasn't done in 6 months or more. normally she is reluctant to go back to my ex from me.

Here is the part that got me angry and a mess, The on again off again OM showed up right as I got to my exs house and walked over to where we were standing and my daughter got down from my ex and started walking to what I thought was me to give me another hug goodbye or something but instead walked right by me and wanted this guy to pick her up which he did. Im not a violent person and am pretty layed back but when he picked her up I wanted to really lay in to this guy and get my daughter away from him. I know my ex saw how bothered I was and I kept my cool and told my daughter goodbye and that I loved her, she wouldn't even say goodbye and this guy was waving my daughters hand at me and telling her to say goodbye which she didn't.

I find it very odd that this guy shows up right when I get there, I have to have my daughter back right at 6pm which is when he showed up on the nose. I think my ex planned this to get me to make a mistake and do something stupid.

I felt like my daughter chose him over me, is that the way I should view this?

Why am I so angry that I wanted to rip this guy in half ?

Im pretty sure my thinking is out of whack here, I was already emotional before I got to my exs because I hate bringing my daughter back and especially after having her for 2 whole weeks to go back to the every other weekend which goes by in a snap. It sucks! whoever thought every other weekend was sufficient time for a parent must not have had kids.

all thoughts, opinions, harsh truth, whatever is welcome.

I have felt so close with my daughter in the past few months and to feel like its slipping away is a horrible feeling. I would never give up on my daughter but I understand how some might I could never do that no matter how tuff it gets but I understand, the fight is so draining and it feels so hopeless. The pain is the worst I have ever been through and its like a wound that never heals, the only thing that gets me through it is to focus on my daughter and get myself out of the picture. It doesn't always work out like that though. 

[Eco]

Im probably going to sound like a person with a disorder, I know I feel like I have one right now. Im very angry right now and im not sure if I should be or really how I should feel right now. My issues with my own insecurity's are really going haywire, I feel heartbroken but im to angry to be sad. I need to get back into counseling ASAP but I cant afford it at the moment so this forum is my only outlet.

I had my daughter( she is 28 months old) this weekend, I picked her up on Friday and she seemed like her normal self. On Saturday we had a busy day lined up at a lake/ water park, My sister and my 11 yr old son were with us as well. My daughter seemed distant to me during the day, normally she is glued to my side but she seemed to be able to break away from me a lot easier and at one point she went and sat on my sisters lap which she has never done. I thought that this was just my daughter being secure enough with me to finally break free from being glued to my side but when PA is going on its hard to tell.

Saturday was a long day, we left at 930 in the morning and didn't get back until 1130 at night and the only nap my daughter took was a hour long nap on my shoulder while I was in a lounge chair. she wasn't grumpy after that and I had to make her go to bed when we got home, she didn't fight me on that but she wasn't ready to go to sleep either. She woke up 2 times during the night crying which she hasn't done in months, When she does that nothing you say or do helps and after 20 or 30 seconds shes asleep again.

So today we just stayed home and watched videos and played inside, when it was time to go back to her moms I told her like I normally do she said no and then asked to paint her nails. When I told her we didn't have time today and that we would do that next time she was with me she through herself on the bed face first. I had to pick her up and leave, she wasn't crying but she was dead weight and limp and eventually was ok once we got going.

When I got to my exs house my daughter nearly jumped out of my arms to get to my ex, That's something she hasn't done in 6 months or more. normally she is reluctant to go back to my ex from me.

Here is the part that got me angry and a mess, The on again off again OM showed up right as I got to my exs house and walked over to where we were standing and my daughter got down from my ex and started walking to what I thought was me to give me another hug goodbye or something but instead walked right by me and wanted this guy to pick her up which he did. Im not a violent person and am pretty layed back but when he picked her up I wanted to really lay in to this guy and get my daughter away from him. I know my ex saw how bothered I was and I kept my cool and told my daughter goodbye and that I loved her, she wouldn't even say goodbye and this guy was waving my daughters hand at me and telling her to say goodbye which she didn't.

I find it very odd that this guy shows up right when I get there, I have to have my daughter back right at 6pm which is when he showed up on the nose. I think my ex planned this to get me to make a mistake and do something stupid.

I felt like my daughter chose him over me, is that the way I should view this?

Why am I so angry that I wanted to rip this guy in half ?

Im pretty sure my thinking is out of whack here, I was already emotional before I got to my exs because I hate bringing my daughter back and especially after having her for 2 whole weeks to go back to the every other weekend which goes by in a snap. It sucks! whoever thought every other weekend was sufficient time for a parent must not have had kids.

all thoughts, opinions, harsh truth, whatever is welcome.

I have felt so close with my daughter in the past few months and to feel like its slipping away is a horrible feeling. I would never give up on my daughter but I understand how some might I could never do that no matter how tuff it gets but I understand, the fight is so draining and it feels so hopeless. The pain is the worst I have ever been through and its like a wound that never heals, the only thing that gets me through it is to focus on my daughter and get myself out of the picture. It doesn't always work out like that though. 

[Turkish]

Eco,

I'm totally with you on the OM thing. When I saw S5 asked by the OM (now his stepdad) on Easter to give him a kiss and a hug I almost lost it. I never ask my son to give me a kiss and a hug, I just do it. Seeing my son kiss him on the cheek disgusted me.

These are uncharted waters for us, Eco. We're not only dealing with ourselves, but also children whose brains and behaviors are changing. I had to chuckle when you said your D went limp. Mine did that for over a year when she didnt like something. She would just stop and drop. The floor, the sidewalk, wherever! I took many pictures as future "blackmail" 

Now a little more than 3, she's not so quietly passve-aggressive. She's voicing her displeasure. Loudly.

I'll share what my T said when I told him about the Easter incident: "its good that another adult is showing your child healthy affection." Me cringing, wanting to scream... .

Your D is developing, growing. These are confusing enough times, regardless of OM. Give your daughter space to feel this out, and interact with her age appropriately.

I get from the tone of your posts that you may feel like you're being replaced as a father. Do you feel that way?

[Eco]

I'm totally with you on the OM thing. When I saw S5 asked by the OM (now his stepdad) on Easter to give him a kiss and a hug I almost lost it. I never ask my son to give me a kiss and a hug, I just do it. Seeing my son kiss him on the cheek disgusted me.

Thanks Turkish, its nice to hear im not the only one with those feelings.

I had to chuckle when you said your D went limp. Mine did that for over a year when she didnt like something. She would just stop and drop. The floor, the sidewalk, wherever! I took many pictures as future "blackmail"  grin

I do as well, she usually does the run in place thing when she gets upset but when she gets really upset she goes limp.

I get from the tone of your posts that you may feel like you're being replaced as a father. Do you feel that way?

My insecure side does but logic tells me that as long as I keep doing what im doing that wont happen and ive learned from my 11 yr old son( his mom is not my daughters mom ) that i cant be copied or replaced.

It just really bothered me that my daughter walked past me to go to the OM and be picked up by him and not me, it felt like she chose him over me and i would think that since im about to leave and not see her for several days she would rather me pick her up then the OM. And the fact that she wouldn't say goodbye to me , I think im expecting to much from a 2 yr old.

Its hard because my ex would love to see a rift between me and my daughter and especially one she didn't directly cause, i can just hear her saying " its not my fault she likes him better then you "

If i spent more time with my daughter it wouldn't be so bad i think, right now i only see her 10 times a month one day during every week and every other weekend. my ex doesn't know it yet but we are going back to court over custody and several other things.

[bravhart1]

ECO,

I think that over the last few months you have done such a good job of shoring up your daughters security and self esteem that what you are now seeing is the result. Your daughter is exploring other people and finding the world around her to be a safe and loving space, like with your sister and ( much to your chagrin) the OM. Your daughter has yet to see the or know what price the OM has cost you, or the damage he has done. She is too little, so she isn't being as discerning as you would like  but she is growing emotionally, including finding new ways to show her displeasure ( like growing limp and breezing by you to show her hurt for bringing her back to moms.) it's all a process that will change and manifest in many different ways over the years. You might need to try to "lighten up a bit"    

[Turkish]

Yes, you may be exoecting too much from a 2 year old 

Whatever her moms PA behaviors, you're still your daughter's dad. Interlopers don't replace that. My kids like their nhow step dad, but I get the sense they think of him as some goofy guy. He has little idea of what he's doing. Still, he's trying. No matter that he's the OM, and how twisted the situation may be from a moral perspective, if our kids are safe at the other home, tjats a good thing.

[Nope]

My DH suffers constantly from the same thing. This is the price of being the safe and well adjusted parent. You don't make the child choose. Her mom does. Since your love and unconditional positive regard are an inner certainty in her mind she doesn't need to worry about you. You are going to get emotionally thrown under the bus a lot. The payoff comes when they are older.

The kids used to live with their BPD mom three states away. They saw DH only a handful of times a year. It always upset DH (though he never showed it) when he'd make it out to see them for a weekend of parenting time and bring them to their soccer/baseball games and the kid not on the field would choose to go over and sit with BPD mom, who they see every day, rather than stay sitting with him on his parenting time. Now that SD is 12 and living with us, my jaw hit the floor when she basically said that she feels safe with us because we let her do what she has to do around her mom to keep her mom happy.

I'm not saying this is what happened in your situation. She's two. I doubt she has the ability to even contemplate that anyone but her has feelings. My point is that this is good practice for what may end up being the thing that saves you from full scale PA. If she learns that you won't make her pay a price for doing what she has to do, then maybe, for the most part, like our kids, she'll grow up changing back into a loving kid the second mom is far enough back in the rear view mirror.

[Eco]

I think that over the last few months you have done such a good job of shoring up your daughters security and self esteem that what you are now seeing is the result.

I never thought of that, thanks for the eye opener.

You might need to try to "lighten up a bit"  Empathy 

Im trying  . its hard for me because im a HSP, the smallest things can hit me like a ton of bricks.

The kids used to live with their BPD mom three states away. They saw DH only a handful of times a year. It always upset DH (though he never showed it) when he'd make it out to see them for a weekend of parenting time and bring them to their soccer/baseball games and the kid not on the field would choose to go over and sit with BPD mom, who they see every day, rather than stay sitting with him on his parenting time.

That must have stung pretty bad for your husband.

My point is that this is good practice for what may end up being the thing that saves you from full scale PA. If she learns that you won't make her pay a price for doing what she has to do, then maybe, for the most part, like our kids, she'll grow up changing back into a loving kid the second mom is far enough back in the rear view mirror.

That's what im hoping for, thanks for the encouragement

[kells76]

Hi Eco,

I've still got a lot to learn, but what I can tell you is that you're not alone. DH deals with the same feelings, too, like when the kids don't tell him goodbye. He also has to work with Nope's situation in terms of who the kids "pick" to sit with at activities. It is really, really hard! But you are not alone in dealing with this, that's for sure.

My guess is that if/when you talk about Mom with your D, it's positive or neutral? I wonder (and this is just speculation) if your D is testing that, though not in a conscious way: ":)ad doesn't say bad things about Mom, so it must be OK for me to go to Mom." Maybe you are the one parent she doesn't feel like she has to make happy, even at age 2.

Anyway, just some thoughts. Hang in there; it sounds like you are doing good (hard!) work.

[Eco]

My guess is that if/when you talk about Mom with your D, it's positive or neutral?

I try to remain neutral and I've never said anything negative about her mom.

I wonder (and this is just speculation) if your D is testing that, though not in a conscious way: ":)ad doesn't say bad things about Mom, so it must be OK for me to go to Mom."

could be, my daughter used to act that way with her mom a while back then she started giving her a hard time going back to her when I would bring her back. Its just weird that she has started to act that way again, My gut says my ex has ramped up the PA again. My daughter went from reluctantly going to my ex to jumping out of my arms to get to her in 2 weeks.

I know my ex has to put my daughter down when I come to get her because she squirms to get to me and comes running, If I was dealing with a normal person this wouldn't be an issue and I wouldn't think twice about it but my ex is a hardcore NPD/BPD so I never know whats really going on

Anyway, just some thoughts. Hang in there; it sounds like you are doing good (hard!) work.

Thank you for the support, it helps.

[Turkish]

Eco,

Keep in mind that your D is not yet 3. Behaviors change. My Ex moved out 3 months short of our daughter's 2nd bd. We shared custody. It was many months before D even mentioned her mom, and a few months after she moved out, both kids (son then 4) didn't want to go back to Mommy. She introduced the OM to them right away, of course.

Now its been 1.5 years. Today, I picied them up and D3 (plus 3 months) clung to her mom and didn't want to go with me. After I got her in the car, she was ok, then she fell asllep on the short drive home. She awoke shortly after I laid her down, and was clingy to me as usual.

At bed time, she said wistfully, "I want Mommy." She's been doing this recently. I validated her," I know you want Mommy,.Baby, and you'll see her tomorrow." She replied wistfully, "ok." It wasn't yet dark, but I hugged her tight and held her for a while then put her to sleep with her brother. She still wants to co-sleep and I'm trying to get her out of that.

All in all, were not dealing with mature minds. A lot of changes are going on, and would go on, even if the kid's parents were still together. Children at this age are very self-centered. Their earning to deal with their feelings. They even split us like a pwBPD if were not meeting their needs. S5 split me on Sunday, and I was unable to get it out of him why. After a while, I let it go. He's 5. He's a kid.

You admitted your triggers. That sounds tough to deal with. Your D isn't responsible for your feelings though. Love her up as much as you can. I may have said this before to you, but as my T said, "children see themselves reflectex back in their parents' faces." Hug, hold, kiss, and smile at her the best that you can. Validate her when she's sad. That's the healthy mirroring that children need.

I yell my duaghter every day that I have her,."you know that you're the best baby in the world, right?" I feel her nod against me as I hug her. I tell her, "you know that I love you forever, right?" Another nod.

Maybe this is chessey, I don't know. I dont do it to be Waifish (to have her rescue my feelings). My T said I'm "inventing" because I never had a father. Whether missing Mommy or not, I do this to reassure her that I'm here for her.

This s a confusing time. Your love for your daughter shines through your posts. 

Give your D time to be a little girl, and love her up as much as you can. She won't forget who her Daddy is.

Turkish

[Eco]

Still struggling with my feelings about my daughter wanting this guy to pick her up. My ex claims that she and this guy are just friends now, If my ex was a normal woman this wouldn't bother me at all but my ex is so cruel and hateful that she wouldn't think twice about a way to stick a knife in my side. she knows the only way to get to me is through my daughter and she uses that to her advantage quite a bit.

My daughter is very selective with who she allows to pick her up so she doesn't just let anyone do that.

Im struggling to find out why this is bothering me so much, am I being selfish? am I making this to much about my feelings and not my daughters?

I feel that only family should be getting close to my daughter at this age not some strange guy that may or may not be around.   My ex has alienated herself from her family so the only people she has around her are the ones she uses and that will put up with her abuse. she tells her kids that some of these people are family when they are not and she has cut out some of these " family " members out of her kids lives all together which has to be confusing for them.

It would be different if I wasn't involved with my daughter and she needed a father figure but she has a father and my ex wont allow me to be as involved as I want to be. My ex would rather inject some strange guy into my daughters life instead of letting me be the father because im painted black by her.

I feel like I have to do something about this but there is nothing that I can do about it without looking like a crazy person and that wont help my daughter or me when I go back to court.

My ex knows this hit a nerve with me, she takes such pleasure in my pain. she is a sadist in every aspect of the word. I hate the way I feel right now, my mind is running wild im disgusted, angry, anxious, worried, depressed and hateful of my exs behavior. I know I must look like a madman and I probably sound like one on here.

Im trying to regain my positive outlook and I have had several positive thoughts attempt to pull me out of this pit today but I shot them down quickly. Tomorrow is another day though

One thing I forgot to mention that has poured fuel onto the fire and was horrible timing with Sunday. My friend that I grew up with and have known since I was 4 took his life on Saturday, I haven't seen him in 15 years but ive kept in touch with him. He was a great guy and a loving father who was going through a very tuff custody battle with someone like my ex. He never let me know that it was having such a toll on him to end his life so I was in shock when I got the news. It breaks my heart that people are so cruel to one another and use children as the tools for their cruelty.  

[Eco]

Thanks Turkish, your last post came in right after I posted.

She still wants to co-sleep and I'm trying to get her out of that.

Im dealing with this as well, after I put my daughter to sleep I will wake up with her next to me. she has gotten very good at not waking me up

All in all, were not dealing with mature minds. A lot of changes are going on, and would go on, even if the kid's parents were still together. Children at this age are very self-centered. Their earning to deal with their feelings. They even split us like a pwBPD if were not meeting their needs. S5 split me on Sunday, and I was unable to get it out of him why. After a while, I let it go. He's 5. He's a kid.

Very true, I keep reminding myself of that.

You admitted your triggers. That sounds tough to deal with. Your D isn't responsible for your feelings though. Love her up as much as you can. I may have said this before to you, but as my T said, "children see themselves reflectex back in their parents' faces." Hug, hold, kiss, and smile at her the best that you can. Validate her when she's sad. That's the healthy mirroring that children need

That's a great point and I keep that in mind, a while back you opened my eyes to that and I have tried to keep that front and center.

Give your D time to be a little girl, and love her up as much as you can. She won't forget who her Daddy is.

Thanks for the encouragement and support

[Turkish]

I'm sorry about your friend, Eco. Hoplessnes is devastating. I myself fell into a deep depression this weekend after seeing my Ex and the kids. Still trying to pull out of it.

It is unfair and unjust what your Ex chose to do, but its reality. The kids will probably figure it out someday, if the OM last, but that's a struggle for another time.

(X-posted with you  

I expect to wake up at 5 am with a baby girl head-to-head. 

[livednlearned]

Im trying  . its hard for me because im a HSP, the smallest things can hit me like a ton of bricks.

Do you think your daughter might be a highly sensitive child? HSC

[Eco]

Do you think your daughter might be a highly sensitive child? HSC

Could be im not sure yet. My 11 yr old son is ( different moms ) I have a anxiety disorder so I worry what I might pass on to them but In the chance they do I have lots of positive ways to deal with it and I can help them through it.